Pinnacles back to Suite lounges Mar. 15 and other questions

[Biker19]

31 minutes ago, topnole said:

Yes, I read there was something like a 40% increase in onboard spending per passenger.  

From their SEC filing:

                                                2021  2020  2019

Passenger ticket revenues			61.4		%				68.1		%				71.7		%
Onboard and other revenues			38.6		%				31.9		%				28.3		%

[twangster]

I wonder if drink vouchers count as on board revenue.  The ships charges them to the CAS team.  It's not like the ship covers the costs.  

[Starry Eyes]

8 minutes ago, smokeybandit said:

I wonder how much of the increase in onboard spending is due to passengers less likely to leave the ship at ports of call and/or more likely/required to book RC shore excursions.

I was think the same, especially the required/likely shore excursion for some people during the restart.

 

2 minutes ago, Lady Hudson said:

No, not sure, but this is my opinion.  We have done 5 cruises since the restart and have 5 more booked between now and mid June.  I don’t think many lower tier or newbies would be booking 10 cruises in 8 months.  Again, my opinion only.

I suppose it depends what you mean by lower level tiers. I have little doubt there are some D/D+ sailing in that frequency range.  Probably not many in tiers below D, as they’d hit D or D+ quickly with double point offer and frequent sailings.  Furthermore, if Royal Caribbean could manage get their Platinum, Emerald, D and D+ Members back for an average of 2 cruises each, that would be as many bookings as every Pin booking 75 cruises each (based on most recent C&A membership data I have seen).  And probably more on board revenue.

[topnole]

53 minutes ago, Starry Eyes said:

I was think the same, especially the required/likely shore excursion for some people during the restart.

 

I suppose it depends what you mean by lower level tiers. I have little doubt there are some D/D+ sailing in that frequency range.  Probably not many in tiers below D, as they’d hit D or D+ quickly with double point offer and frequent sailings.  Furthermore, if Royal Caribbean could manage get their Platinum, Emerald, D and D+ Members back for an average of 2 cruises each, that would be as many bookings as every Pin booking 75 cruises each (based on most recent C&A membership data I have seen).  And probably more on board revenue.

Good points.  Agree completely.  

[smokeybandit]

1 hour ago, twangster said:

I wonder if drink vouchers count as on board revenue.  The ships charges them to the CAS team.  It's not like the ship covers the costs.  

With that in mind, would free drinks in the pre-covid era during the diamond lounge happy hour have counted as revenue? I would think both would be true (thus not affecting the bottom line much), but then again I'm not accountant.

[topnole]

1 hour ago, Biker19 said:

From their SEC filing:

                                                2021  2020  2019

Passenger ticket revenues			61.4		%				68.1		%				71.7		%
Onboard and other revenues			38.6		%				31.9		%				28.3		%

Looks much less than 40% increase in onboard revenue (plus that category includes other revenues whatever that means).  Not sure where I read 40% increase.  Maybe my memory is mixing that up with onboard spending being 40%.  

[topnole]

1 hour ago, twangster said:

 

I think a lot of it was pent up demand driven by being effectively locked out vacations and most things that are fun during the pandemic.

Yes.  That has to be a big part of it.  

[topnole]

1 hour ago, Lady Hudson said:

No, not sure, but this is my opinion.  We have done 5 cruises since the restart and have 5 more booked between now and mid June.  I don’t think many lower tier or newbies would be booking 10 cruises in 8 months.  Again, my opinion only.

These are rhetorical questions so I’m not really asking you to answer.  But….  How many of the 5 involved FCC?  How many were at a deep discount.  How much onboard spending on each.  I’m sure FCC runs out quick for frequent cruisers.  But FCC was no help to royal.  
 

Point being, I could easily take 10 cruises this year and if I do it well and spend little to none onboard (which is quite easy if you get a lot of free drinks each day), the cruise line is losing money on me.  That isn’t helping them stay afloat.  What they really want and need is passengers who bring them profit.  Not customers who lose money for them.  I’ve met many D+ they go in inside cabins and don’t spend much of anything onboard.  
 

Long run, Pinnacles are a drop in the bucket for Royal.  The number of potential cruisers is surely a billion+.  The number of pinnacles is maybe 2000?   Just guessing on that, but I know I’ve seen that ball Park number before.  That doesn’t fill up 1/3 of one big ship for Royal.  
 

The future for Royal is new customers (out of the billion plus potential passengers) not us D+ folks or Pinnacles.  They need folks that want to shell out a bunch for their once in a year vacation (like 400-509 just to go to a water park for a few hours for a family of 5).  Whereas regulars aren’t gonna shell out as much on average each trip when they do it  5,10, or 20 times a year.  Just my humble opinion.  Albeit I would love to be pinnacle in the future and

be made fun of by others for being uppity or whatever else.  But by the time I make it I think the best perks will be gone.  Hope I’m wrong.  

[Cigar King]

5 hours ago, Lady Hudson said:

I think we have to remember that it is the repeat cruisers (a lot are Pins) who are helping to keep Royal “afloat” right now.  I always thought that the repeaters, precovid, were valuable in the off season as well.

You may in fact be correct, but, I have never seen any actual data to show what the financial impact of the various cruisers is.  My gut tells me that first time cruisers may be the most valuable, as they may be more likely to spend freely on the ships.  I don't know though but would love to see some firm numbers.

[Starry Eyes]

24 minutes ago, Cigar King said:

You may in fact be correct, but, I have never seen any actual data to show what the financial impact of the various cruisers is.  My gut tells me that first time cruisers may be the most valuable, as they may be more likely to spend freely on the ships.  I don't know though but would love to see some firm numbers.

I’d like to see data, too, but I would guess the first time cruisers and less cruisers (once a year or less) probably spend more on board on average than frequent cruisers.  Those shore excursions seem like once in a lifetime (or perhaps once a year) opportunities and they may not know about private options.  On board shopping you have seen for years is new to them…even that art.  So many ways to spend money to make those infrequent trips special.

Edited March 2, 2022 by Starry Eyes

[smokeybandit]

32 minutes ago, Cigar King said:

My gut tells me that first time cruisers may be the most valuable, as they may be more likely to spend freely on the ships. 

Also they're not getting any discounts, freebies or vouchers, so they're paying for everything

[ownedbypets]

33 minutes ago, Cigar King said:

You may in fact be correct, but, I have never seen any actual data to show what the financial impact of the various cruisers is.  My gut tells me that first time cruisers may be the most valuable, as they may be more likely to spend freely on the ships.  I don't know though but would love to see some firm numbers.

 

I know that we spent the most, on board, on our first cruise. 

[topnole]

1 hour ago, smokeybandit said:

With that in mind, would free drinks in the pre-covid era during the diamond lounge happy hour have counted as revenue? I would think both would be true (thus not affecting the bottom line much), but then again I'm not accountant.

I’m not sure how that would count as revenue.  Certainly not for corporate overall.  Imagine more like loyalty program expense.  

[topnole]

16 minutes ago, Starry Eyes said:

I’d like to see data, too, but I would guess the first time cruisers and less cruisers (once a year or less) probably spend more on board on average than frequent cruisers.  Those shore excursions seem like once in a lifetime (or perhaps once a year) opportunities and they may not know about private options.  On board shopping you have seen for years is new to them…even that art.  So many ways to spend money to make those infrequent trips special.

Exactly what I was thinking.  

[mac_tlc]

1 hour ago, topnole said:

Looks much less than 40% increase in onboard revenue (plus that category includes other revenues whatever that means).  Not sure where I read 40% increase.  Maybe my memory is mixing that up with onboard spending being 40%.  

Looks like a 36.4% increase going from

28.3% to 38.6%. Went up 10.3 percentage points which is 36.4% of 28.3.

 

mac_tlc

[topnole]

1 hour ago, mac_tlc said:

Looks like a 36.4% increase going from

28.3% to 38.6%. Went up 10.3 percentage points which is 36.4% of 28.3.

 

mac_tlc

Yes.  But the other revenue is in that too which would reduce onboard %.  Perhaps that is casino revenue?   Who knows.  

Edited March 3, 2022 by topnole

[SherriZ366]

On 3/1/2022 at 9:54 AM, cruisegirl1 said:

 

Will GLADLY use a voucher and not drink the free wine or champagne. Didn't drink it before and not starting now, even if free.    6 vouchers, the 3 bottles  of wine I select as a gift,  and the two bottles we bring on board are plenty.  Don't need free cheap drinks.

 

  Quite frankly, Royal should treat the suite guests to better alcohol.    

 

M

 

 

Enjoyed using my coupons on my last cruise when I was in a Suite.  I liked the better wines and used the opportunity to try various wines up to the $13 limit (although anything over this amount could be charged to my card)  on the menu.    

[SherriZ366]

On 3/1/2022 at 10:25 AM, island lady said:

 

I am worried the six vouchers are going away...hope it stays.  I think it has helped with the crowding in the lounges.  

So do I -- two reasons:

• Cuts down on crowding in the SL 
• As I posted earlier, the voucher's better wines and liquor really ae enjoyable.  Especially the wines and Malibu Rum.  

[SG65CB]

24 minutes ago, topnole said:

Yes.  But the other revenue is in that too which would reduce onboard %.  Perhaps that is casino revenue?   Who knows.  

 

I'm guessing shore excursions and revenue from Labadee and Coco Cay.

[SherriZ366]

23 hours ago, John&LaLa said:

 

I sailed her sister, Carnivale in 1989

 

This is from 1993 in Pt Canaveral 

 

Sailed on Carnivale in the 1970's -- it wasn't a great experience.  Did it improve in the 1980's.  We had terrible service including waiters trying to take our dinner plates before we had finished.  

Edited March 3, 2022 by SherriZ366

[HBE4]

3 hours ago, Starry Eyes said:

I was think the same, especially the required/likely shore excursion for some people during the restart.

 

I suppose it depends what you mean by lower level tiers. I have little doubt there are some D/D+ sailing in that frequency range.  Probably not many in tiers below D, as they’d hit D or D+ quickly with double point offer and frequent sailings.  Furthermore, if Royal Caribbean could manage get their Platinum, Emerald, D and D+ Members back for an average of 2 cruises each, that would be as many bookings as every Pin booking 75 cruises each (based on most recent C&A membership data I have seen).  And probably more on board revenue.

 

2 hours ago, Cigar King said:

You may in fact be correct, but, I have never seen any actual data to show what the financial impact of the various cruisers is.  My gut tells me that first time cruisers may be the most valuable, as they may be more likely to spend freely on the ships.  I don't know though but would love to see some firm numbers.

 

2 hours ago, Starry Eyes said:

I’d like to see data, too, but I would guess the first time cruisers and less cruisers (once a year or less) probably spend more on board on average than frequent cruisers.  Those shore excursions seem like once in a lifetime (or perhaps once a year) opportunities and they may not know about private options.  On board shopping you have seen for years is new to them…even that art.  So many ways to spend money to make those infrequent trips special.

 

From reading "live" reviews over the years where the reviewer would post C&A numbers, I seem to recall that the top 3 tiers (Frequent, loyal cruisers) usually represent somewhere in the range of 25%-30%  of C&A members, on a "typical" 7 day Caribbean cruise . Add in first timers that are not yet C&A, and the percentage of total cruisers on the ship falls even more.   These number are from memory, I'm too lazy to look up a source. I think @twangster and @John&LaLa usually post numbers in their reviews??

 

Just for arguments sake, let's say 10% - 15% of C&A members take 15 or 20 cruises a year, that's less than 1 cruise per ship in Royals fleet. Not sure that's enough to keep the company afloat (pun intended 🙂 ).

 

As for which group spends more per passenger, I have no clue. I'm sure there are extravagant spenders & budget-minded in each group.   Maybe first timers spend more on photo packages & ship excursions while  & frequent cruisers spend more on specialty restaurants & suites? Just my WAG.

 

[topnole]

36 minutes ago, SG65CB said:

 

I'm guessing shore excursions and revenue from Labadee and Coco Cay.

I would’ve assume those to be onboard revenue.  But again, who knows.  

[twangster]

I don't think revenue analysis by tier level is meaningful as it related to perks of the CAS.

 

One could argue that with around %50 of new to Royal booking typical cruises they represent the largest revenue opportunity.  They are also more likely to make the mistake of buying everything on board.

 

The second largest group is Gold so by the numbers there is more collective revenue from Gold members compared to any other tier.  

 

Does that mean new to Royal and Gold members should get the best perks in the loyalty program?  

 

If you think the SL is crowded now wait until every Gold member has access based on their collective revenue contribution.  

[HBE4]

9 minutes ago, twangster said:

I don't think revenue analysis by tier level is meaningful as it related to perks of the CAS.

 

Totally agree & I hope that's not how my post came across. I might have forgotten to quote someone and/or quoted the wrong person, but it was in response to Pinnacles keeping the company afloat. 

 

I'm not bashing any Pinnacles and they deserve every perk they get, just not sure the numbers are strong enough to support the company that has millions of passengers every year.

 

But, as always, I could be wrong. It happens occasionally.🙂

Edited March 3, 2022 by HBE4

[twangster]

Just now, HBE4 said:

 

Totally agree & I hope that's not how my post came across. I might have forgotten to quote someone and/or quoted the wrong person, but it was in response to Pinnacles keeping the company afloat. 

 

I'm not bashing any Pinnacles and they deserve every perk they get, just not sure the numbers are strong enough to support the company that has millions of passengers every year.

 

But, as always, I could be wrong.

 

Yep, not targeting you in my response, it was meant to follow the collective flow of the thread.