Pinnacles back to Suite lounges Mar. 15 and other questions

[Kbonner]

16 hours ago, Cigar King said:

Actually, I'm just for restricting access in the suite lounge.  Send me your address and I'll send you my position paper on the topic.

Sorry but we are definitely a cigar-free household. Cannot accept your Pin bashing non-paper.

[zebra36]

On 2/28/2022 at 3:20 PM, topnole said:

Interesting date to reinstate isn’t it?   

That is weird since that is a Wednesday, you would think this would start on a weekend date to coincide with the beginning of most(?) cruises.

[topnole]

9 hours ago, SG65CB said:

 

Star class have UDP so there is little demand for CK for them. That is helpful for CK availability. 

 

But I agree with Topnole, if I pay extra for a suite, and pay even more for an Oasis-class suite, I'm expecting to eat meals in CK. Not when they can squeeze me in, but every night. 

Yeah and unlimited drinks.  And there are very few star class cabins.  Probably more grand suites on one deck than all of the star class cabins on the entire ship.  Star class is not an issue for the CK/SL.  

 

[topnole]

14 hours ago, island lady said:

 

My point...which may have gone unnoticed...was that if RCI thought that CK was too overcrowded at dinner...why are they still letting non full suite guests still be able to dine there?   

 

Want to get rid of Pinnacles not in a full suite?  Get rid of ALL pax not in a full suite.  JS is not a full suite.  Changes can be made at the whim of RCI.  

Your point didn’t go unnoticed.  IMO it doesn’t make any sense.  CK for dinner (if space is available) is a perk of the JS cabin class on Oasis class ships

and the cabins are priced accordingly.  It also allows Royal to easily manage over crowding because the perk is on a

space available basis so it sets expectations.  By your logic, why not just remove grand suite passengers from the CK too?  After all, it is the cheapest full suite and often doesn’t cost that much more than a JS.  They could just classify them as Large JS.  That would also free up space.   Problem solved.   

 

But we all know they won’t do that.   Royal wants more revenue per person, not less, and that would drive prices down.  Giving away a bunch of freebies to repeat passengers will do less

and less good for Royal over time.    Lots of Pinnacles stay in suites.  But lots don’t and those that go cheap probably cost Royal money every cruise.  Makes little sense for them to reward customers that lose them money.   There are less ships now and the world is growing.  Lines many have little need to reward

loyalty if they get to the point of filling up the ships with newbies or infrequent passengers.   
 

Most that like the product would cruise Royal either way.  If a pinnacle stays in suites, that would seemingly be true because you are paying for almost

all of the pinnacle perks in the price

of the suite.  I’ll enjoy my D+ perks and I figure by the time I’m pinnacle (if it still exists by then) I may not get near as much as Pins do now.  I’m fine with that.  Is what it is.  

[smokeybandit]

2 hours ago, zebra36 said:

That is weird since that is a Wednesday, you would think this would start on a weekend date to coincide with the beginning of most(?) cruises.

It's simpler than that. The Pins can enter the SL on cruises departing after that date. It's not as if mid-cruise pins can suddenly use the SL.

[island lady]

17 minutes ago, topnole said:

Your point didn’t go unnoticed.  IMO it doesn’t make any sense.  CK for dinner (if space is available) is a perk of the JS cabin class on Oasis class ships

and the cabins are priced accordingly.  It also allows Royal to easily manage over crowding because the perk is on a

space available basis so it sets expectations.  By your logic, why not just remove grand suite passengers from the CK too?  After all, it is the cheapest full suite and often doesn’t cost that much more than a JS.  They could just classify them as Large JS.  That would also free up space.   Problem solved.   

 

But we all know they won’t do that.   Royal wants more revenue per person, not less, and that would drive prices down.  Giving away a bunch of freebies to repeat passengers will do less

and less good for Royal over time.    Lots of Pinnacles stay in suites.  But lots don’t and those that go cheap probably cost Royal money every cruise.  Makes little sense for them to reward customers that lose them money.   There are less ships now and the world is growing.  Lines many have little need to reward

loyalty if they get to the point of filling up the ships with newbies or infrequent passengers.   
 

Most that like the product would cruise Royal either way.  If a pinnacle stays in suites, that would seemingly be true because you are paying for almost

all of the pinnacle perks in the price

of the suite.  I’ll enjoy my D+ perks and I figure by the time I’m pinnacle (if it still exists by then) I may not get near as much as Pins do now.  I’m fine with that.  Is what it is.  

 

You make some fine points. 

 

Though for example JS pax never had access to the CL/SL...unless they were Pinnacle (before shut down).   They don't have access to the DL either, unless at least Diamond. 

 

The JS is simply a nice larger balcony cabin, with double points, and priced accordingly as to not having full suite perks. And there are many differences other than CK access.    If you add up all the Sea, Sky, and Star class suites...there are too many for CK.  

 

There are so many other fine restaurants around the ship, shame more don't try more of them out as well.  I know we do and enjoy the variety.  And we are in a suite...and Pinnie.  😉 

 

 

 

Edited March 2, 2022 by island lady

[topnole]

3 minutes ago, island lady said:

 

You make some fine points. 

 

Though for example JS pax never had access to the CL/SL...unless they were Pinnacle (before shut down).   It's simply a nice larger balcony cabin, with double points, and priced accordingly as to not having full suite perks.   If you add up all the Sea, Sky, and Star class suites...there are too many for CK.  

 

There are so many other fine restaurants around the ship, shame more don't try them out as well.  I know we do and enjoy the variety.  And we are in a suite...and Pinnie.  😉 

I agree.  But suites in suite class ships with a CK/SL are priced higher on average due to the big difference in perks.  This includes JR suites on Oasis class for example.  
 

For us, when we do sky class

suites we like to enjoy the CK because we like it a lot.  We like the physical space, the service, and the food almost every night suits our needs/taste buds.  We do every breakfast in the CK and some lunches depending on our schedule.  So when sky class I don’t care to spend more to eat at the specialty restaurants.   We can do that when we travel in non suite cabins and have no access to the CK/SL.  
 

Per above, we also stay in all other types of cabins depending on availability or our needs.  So if in connecting interior cabins like one of our last cruises, we might do a couple specialty restaurants and I’m likely to buy a drink package.  In a suite, I have little need to buy one because Im a beer drinker and the SL is open from 11-11.  I buy as needed when out and about (without holding back) which ends up being way cheaper than the cost of a drink package.    When we go star class we obviously tend to mostly eat in the specialty restaurants and spend less time getting drinks in the SL and more

time enjoying our drinks on our balcony or at whatever bar around the ship.   Our next trip is Star class so I’m obviously not to worried about any overcrowding in the CK/SL.  😂😂

[twangster]

55 minutes ago, topnole said:

 CK for dinner (if space is available) is a perk of the JS cabin class on Oasis class ships

and the cabins are priced accordingly.  It also allows Royal to easily manage over crowding because the perk is on a space available basis so it sets expectations.  

 

The problem with Sea Class is that Royal doesn't market CK access on a space available basis.  

 

It is somewhat misleading.  The JS perks make it sound like you get dinner in CK on a guaranteed basis.  You don't.  You might get in and you might not.  I've sailed in a JS on Oasis before making Pinnacle and was not able to get into CK any night.  I've sailed Harmony as a Pinnacle in a JS since the restart and got into CK zero nights.  It wasn't other Pinnacle that blocked me from getting into CK, they also reported no access.

 

Royal would be well suited to harmonize suite perks better across the fleet.    Removing JS from CK would make JS perks consistent across the fleet.  Adding Voom to full suites on older classes would make full suites one step closer to consistent.  

 

Yet we all know Royal loves to be inconsistent.  

[wolfcathorse]

On 2/28/2022 at 2:35 PM, topnole said:

Pretty sure I read oasis class SL bars are open 11-11 with free beer and wine.  
 

After 3-15, there goes any chance for getting a bar seat in the SL in the evening and PM.  😂😂   Not that I blame the pinnacles for taking advantage of the perk.  

just remember that the notice also said that if capacity in the SL is exceeded (meaning there's a ton of Pinnacles on that sailing), they will still offer an exclusive Pinnacle Lounge for Pinnacles.

[SG65CB]

7 minutes ago, twangster said:

Adding Voom to full suites on older classes would make full suites one step closer to consistent.

 

Yes! My biggest complaint about suites on other ships is they don't include Voom. I think it should be included. Why give it on some ships but not others, since they all have Voom service?

[topnole]

7 minutes ago, twangster said:

 

The problem with Sea Class is that Royal doesn't market CK access on a space available basis.  

 

It is somewhat misleading.  The JS perks make it sound like you get dinner in CK on a guaranteed basis.  You don't.  You might get in and you might not.  I've sailed in a JS on Oasis before making Pinnacle and was not able to get into CK any night.  I've sailed Harmony as a Pinnacle in a JS since the restart and got into CK zero nights.  It wasn't other Pinnacle that blocked me from getting into CK, they also reported no access.

 

Royal would be well suited to harmonize suite perks better across the fleet.    Removing JS from CK would make JS perks consistent across the fleet.  Adding Voom to full suites on older classes would make full suites one step closer to consistent.  

 

Yet we all know Royal loves to be inconsistent.  

Yeah.  They need to better explain the CK access thing.  Even loyal Royal folks get confused on it.   
 

I get the inconsistencies.  They simply can’t offer a CK or all day SL bar on all ships without a revamp.  It would be very expensive and kill much needed space on the smaller ships.  Plus, it would necessarily raise the cost of all those suites.  
 

In some ways it is better to have varying options ship to ship and keep the suites cheaper on the older ships.  For example,  not everyone wants or needs internet and they don’t want to pay extra for it.  Either way, it certainly creates misunderstanding.  I think they just need to communicate it better, but I get your perspective too.  

[topnole]

3 minutes ago, SG65CB said:

 

Yes! My biggest complaint about suites on other ships is they don't include Voom. I think it should be included. Why give it on some ships but not others, since they all have Voom service?

Because suites are more expensive when it is included.  They aren’t just giving it away.  It is baked in the price.  Prices would go up if they included it and not everyone wants or needs internet.  

[Cigar King]

11 hours ago, twangster said:

I literally could have bought a house with what I have contributed to Royal from the start to where we are today.  So believe me when I state I get it.  I think Royal also gets it.  

 

They are adapting and changing.  That is good for all of us. 

 

This is an ongoing process.  Royal will continue to evolve.  

Thanks.  I'm hoping you are correct.  

[Cigar King]

1 hour ago, SG65CB said:

Yes! My biggest complaint about suites on other ships is they don't include Voom. I think it should be included.

I'd like it if this were the case too.  That being said, I noticed on our last cruise (where it was included) that I tended to spend more time online than I would normally.  It was nice to be able to detach myself from technology.

[Lady Hudson]

I think we have to remember that it is the repeat cruisers (a lot are Pins) who are helping to keep Royal “afloat” right now.  I always thought that the repeaters, precovid, were valuable in the off season as well.  Royal wants to keep everyone happy.  My Pinnacle pin is my most expensive piece of jewelry and I appreciate the benefits provided by Royal.  

[John&LaLa]

3 hours ago, topnole said:

Yeah and unlimited drinks.  And there are very few star class cabins.  Probably more grand suites on one deck than all of the star class cabins on the entire ship.  Star class is not an issue for the CK/SL.  

 

 

Im surprised how often they eat up there

[twangster]

27 minutes ago, topnole said:

Because suites are more expensive when it is included.  They aren’t just giving it away.  It is baked in the price.  Prices would go up if they included it and not everyone wants or needs internet.  

 

Yes that is what Michael Bayley tells us.  Yet suites never seem cheaper on other ship.  🤔

[topnole]

1 hour ago, Lady Hudson said:

I think we have to remember that it is the repeat cruisers (a lot are Pins) who are helping to keep Royal “afloat” right now.  I always thought that the repeaters, precovid, were valuable in the off season as well.  Royal wants to keep everyone happy.  My Pinnacle pin is my most expensive piece of jewelry and I appreciate the benefits provided by Royal.  

Are you sure about that?  How many C&A members are now are cruising with a FCC?  Those using prior credits aren’t keeping them a float.  How many pins are

there?  2000 max?  The revenue from them is a tiny drop in the bucket. 
 

They have capped capacity on many cruises and I’m sure on many of these they could’ve achieved the desired capacity with or without pinnacles or D+s.  I’d say that securing debt is what has kept them a float.  I’m not even sure they are generating positive cash flow on an average cruise right now, but even if they are that isn’t keeping them afloat.  They had to secure significant financing to stay afloat.  Until they get back to more normal capacities they will be in a very difficult position.  

[topnole]

1 hour ago, John&LaLa said:

 

Im surprised how often they eat up there

Well.  It is a beautiful space.  When star class, I will eat breakfast there every day and lunch once or twice.  I’ll probably eat dinner there once, maybe twice depending on how things go during the week.  If we really love one or two of the servers we would tend towards two nights in CK at dinner.  

[twangster]

41 minutes ago, topnole said:

Are you sure about that?  How many C&A members are now are cruising with a FCC?  Those using prior credits aren’t keeping them a float.  How many pins are

there?  2000 max?  The revenue from them is a tiny drop in the bucket. 
 

They have capped capacity on many cruises and I’m sure on many of these they could’ve achieved the desired capacity with or without pinnacles or D+s.  I’d say that securing debt is what has kept them a float.  I’m not even sure they are generating positive cash flow on an average cruise right now, but even if they are that isn’t keeping them afloat.  They had to secure significant financing to stay afloat.  Until they get back to more normal capacities they will be in a very difficult position.  

 

Well they did say as much on earning calls - return customers are helping them a lot.  Around 50% of revenue comes from onboard spending so FCC has no factor in that.  Plus many of us that have done 15 or more cruises since the restart didn't have that much FCC.   

[topnole]

1 minute ago, twangster said:

 

Well they did say as much on earning calls - return customers are helping them a lot.  Around 50% of revenue comes from onboard spending so FCC has no factor in that.  Plus many of us that have done 15 or more cruises since the restart didn't have that much FCC.   

Agree, but how much of the repeat business is high tier folks versus the one to two cruises a year folks or those that have only done a few cruises ever.  I have no idea, but I’ll bet it it a lot.  
 

Yes, I read there was something like a 40% increase in onboard spending per passenger.  Do you think that was pinnacles driving that or less frequent cruisers   I’d guess it wasn’t pinnacles, but that is pure speculation based on them cruising more so probably spend less per trip.  I know this would vary a lot for any group regardless.  
 

We will never know, but what would be interesting is to know the avg spending per person per C&A group.  My guess is less frequent travelers spend much more

per trip and have a much greater impact on revenue and more importantly profit.  
 

Top tiers generating revenue matters little over time if it doesn’t help generate profit.  

[smokeybandit]

I wonder how much of the increase in onboard spending is due to passengers less likely to leave the ship at ports of call and/or more likely/required to book RC shore excursions.

[twangster]

26 minutes ago, topnole said:

Agree, but how much of the repeat business is high tier folks versus the one to two cruises a year folks or those that have only done a few cruises ever.  I have no idea, but I’ll bet it it a lot.  
 

Yes, I read there was something like a 40% increase in onboard spending per passenger.  Do you think that was pinnacles driving that or less frequent cruisers   I’d guess it wasn’t pinnacles, but that is pure speculation based on them cruising more so probably spend less per trip.  I know this would vary a lot for any group regardless.  
 

We will never know, but what would be interesting is to know the avg spending per person per C&A group.  My guess is less frequent travelers spend much more

per trip and have a much greater impact on revenue and more importantly profit.  
 

Top tiers generating revenue matters little over time if it doesn’t help generate profit.  

 

I get it.  And pinnacles only stay in cheap interior.  We hear that a lot too.  

[Lady Hudson]

1 hour ago, topnole said:

Are you sure about that?  How many C&A members are now are cruising with a FCC?  Those using prior credits aren’t keeping them a float.  How many pins are

there?  2000 max?  The revenue from them is a tiny drop in the bucket. 
 

They have capped capacity on many cruises and I’m sure on many of these they could’ve achieved the desired capacity with or without pinnacles or D+s.  I’d say that securing debt is what has kept them a float.  I’m not even sure they are generating positive cash flow on an average cruise right now, but even if they are that isn’t keeping them afloat.  They had to secure significant financing to stay afloat.  Until they get back to more normal capacities they will be in a very difficult position.  

No, not sure, but this is my opinion.  We have done 5 cruises since the restart and have 5 more booked between now and mid June.  I don’t think many lower tier or newbies would be booking 10 cruises in 8 months.  Again, my opinion only.

[twangster]

9 minutes ago, smokeybandit said:

I wonder how much of the increase in onboard spending is due to passengers less likely to leave the ship at ports of call and/or more likely/required to book RC shore excursions.

 

I think a lot of it was pent up demand driven by being effectively locked out vacations and most things that are fun during the pandemic.