Playing "the points" game

[Toddcan]

Ah, the points game is not only for the retired!!!  I've spent a lot of time analyzing the bang-for-the-buck on all different types of cards and rewards.   The conclusion I have come to (and it was VERY obvious) for my travel preferences was to only use points for flights. Nothing else was even close to being worth saving points for.  I'd never use points for cruising as the points/dollar ratios were not worth it.    YMMV

[frisbeewife]

On 7/20/2022 at 3:20 PM, Sea Dog said:

 

 

Welcome to the club. I had my knee replaced this past February. So I'm at 5 months and I'm doing good but wish my healing would progress a little faster. Still numb and swollen on one side. Still have some pain at times but not bad. I am exercising the heck out of it so that could be some of it. Stick to your rehab religiously.

 

We just retired last November too. We love it. We pretty much try to live on our social security and pensions and use our 401K's for emergencies and our cruise habit. We have 4 scheduled in the next year but will probably average about two a year.

 

We use a Southwest/Chase card for all our travel and hotel. We got points right out of the gate and we have traveled so much that all of our airline tickets are paid for this next cruise in September. We also have signed up at various hotel loyalty programs too. Mainly Hilton and Embassy Suites but the points are not that much. The Southwest Card makes a huge difference for us.

 

Welcome to retirement. I've never looked back.

 

Regarding knee replacement, I had both of mine done 8 months apart, almost 6 years ago now.  The first one took a year and a half to feel normal and the second one took about a year.  Once you get past the initial seemingly-fast improvements, it starts to feel like it's going to hurt FOREVER and just isn't getting any better.  Trust me - it's improving a little bit at a time and you just have to be patient.  Keep moving as much as you can without doing too much.  Walking is the best thing.  I found recumbant bikes were better than the regular upright bikes.  If you can, maybe join a gym that has those and stair-steppers.  Here in Florida stairs are few and far between and I could tell I needed to do them to exercise my knees and the stair-steppers helped. 

 

As for points, when I worked I was on the road a lot and played the game to the hilt.  That was when you could get status on Delta by flying segments so I'd come up with some creative routes to get where I was going.  At that time Delta was the only airline flying out of our local airport and since I wasn't paying the fare I didn't care that it cost so much more than driving an hour to the big hub airport.  Now that I'm retired I'm actually finding that I'd rather just use a cash-back card.  It gives me more flexibility to choose the airline, hotel, and whatever else I want.  Plus the last few years I've had to cancel several trips for various reasons (not just Covid) and it's a lot easier to do if you didn't pay with points.  I don't like having to book through some credit card's portal that doesn't offer all of the airlines, or have to stay at some particular chain hotel when others might be a better choice (and I like to go to out of the way places that don't even have chain hotels).  YMMV but for me the simplicity has become more appealing than playing the game.

 

Having said all that, I DO watch for sign-up bonuses and will collect and use the points from those and then cancel the cards.  I have a hard time justifying paying an annual fee when I don't travel all that much.

 

[3eaglesfam]

I used the bank of America Royal Caribbean visa.  I get double points for any RC purchases on it.  Usually a few months before the cruise I will call to get OBC and use that to purchase the drink package, specialty dining etc.   I also pay the card off each billing cycle so I dont have a huge interest payment.  

[LMaxwell]

Do you have an Amex?  I frequently get offers for things like $150 off of $500 with cruise lines (varies).

[alexgtp]

I guess the point's game is for people who are disciplined with their finances.

 

I would never recommend someone get into debt to "chase" points.

 

Southwest is ideal for me because I normally only fly Southwest.

The Chase Sapphire or Amex Platinum are the next card I will probably look at. Waiting for a over150K offer. I see sometimes they will offer 150-200K.  AMEX looks interesting for the lounge access. But I am reading that a lot of lounges are scaling back on the amount of PPL allowed who are using priority pass/ credit card for lounge access.

[Sea Dog]

5 hours ago, frisbeewife said:

 

Regarding knee replacement, I had both of mine done 8 months apart, almost 6 years ago now.  The first one took a year and a half to feel normal and the second one took about a year.  Once you get past the initial seemingly-fast improvements, it starts to feel like it's going to hurt FOREVER and just isn't getting any better.  Trust me - it's improving a little bit at a time and you just have to be patient.  Keep moving as much as you can without doing too much.  Walking is the best thing.  I found recumbant bikes were better than the regular upright bikes.  If you can, maybe join a gym that has those and stair-steppers.  Here in Florida stairs are few and far between and I could tell I needed to do them to exercise my knees and the stair-steppers helped. 

 

 

Thank you so much for your advice. I was starting to get frustrated as I’ve hit a wall as far as progress. I would  not surprised if mine take a year. I’d be ok with that at least knowing it’s going to get better. Right now I’m exercising like crazy. I’ve already dropped 35 pounds. The problem is my other knee. I’m going to need to have replaced just so I can do all my exercising. We have an elliptical at home so I am mainly doing that. Again Thank hanks for your advice. It really helps.

[AlohaLivin]

I think there is a difference in “chasing points” and maximizing points by strategizing credit card use.  The former might include those to spend money that they would not spend otherwise or those who spend on the CC seeking points without considering the costs on the other side of the ledger (interest/debt). And for some, the “game” includes opening and closing multiple card accounts to grab new account bonuses.
 

What we do is to optimize the use of 2 credit cards in order to make money/points/benefits to make our money (that which we would spend anyway for groceries to travel) go further. We don’t open multiple accounts (my USMC DH would lose his mind if I considered that, we have an 830 credit rating that indicates his level of care with our finances) and we never, ever have a balance. I agree that credit cards can be a huge slippery slope for some people and that financial institutions have been guilty of encouraging their use for their own profit. But that is what  businesses do, try to increase the use of their products, whether RCL or BoA), silly to think they would not. As a younger person I wasn’t careful with my credit cards, but honestly that was on me and I learned from that. ** Of course those banks should never use unethical practices, hopefully that goes without saying. **

 

From my perspective, the OP was only discussing this kind of optimizing for greater travel rewards during retirement and in my book stretching a dollar is just smart way to go about things. 

Edited July 22, 2022 by AlohaLivin

[exm]

5 minutes ago, AlohaLivin said:

I think there is a difference in “chasing points” and maximizing points by strategizing credit card use.  The former might include those to spend money that they would not spend otherwise or those who spend on the CC seeking points without considering the costs on the other side of the ledger (interest/debt). And for some, the “game” includes opening and closing multiple card accounts to grab new account bonuses.
 

What we do is to optimize the use of 2 credit cards in order to make money/points/benefits to make our money (that which we would spend anyway for groceries to travel) go further. We don’t open multiple accounts (my USMC DH would lose his mind if I considered that, we have an 830 credit rating that indicates his level of care with our finances) and we never, ever have a balance. I agree that credit cards can be a huge slippery slope for some people and that financial institutions have been guilty of encouraging their use for their own profit. But that is what  businesses do, try to increase the use of their products, whether RCL or BoA), silly to think they would not. As a younger person I wasn’t careful with my credit cards, but honestly that was on me and I learned from that. 
 

From my perspective, the OP was only discussing this kind of optimizing for greater travel rewards during retirement and in my book stretching a dollar is just smart way to go about things. 

 

I agree that there's a difference, but it's not mutual exclusive.

 

Opening credit cards doesn't necessarily hurt your credit, usually only by a few points. And I don't close cards that I open; I downgrade them. The key to open new credit cards is a bonus that's actually worth it: don't open a new cc with a $50-$200 bonus. Get the ones that give you 80,000 and up points. Usually those points if you have a Chase Sapphire Reserve are worth 1.5, so that's $1,200 worth of points. So if you want to stretch your dollars during retirement, that's the way to go.

[KayRaeRae]

8 hours ago, rudeney said:

 

I agree.  The people who pay interest and fees are the ones funding these points.  If everyone paid their cards off each month and incurred no interest or late fees, all of these points programs would dry-up.  The card companies are hoping that the points-chasers will slip up and not pay a bill on time or overspend and not pay it in full and then they will profit from that.  

 

It's easier now with instantly-processed online statements and payments, but years ago, credit card companies would "game" the mail system to try to generate late payments.  They had print and mail centers all over the country, and would choose the one with the slowest mail route between it and you.  The same with payment processing centers - your remittance address be the one with the slowest mail route from you. 

 

BofA used to sell their services to other companies and I once looked at them for an ambulance company I worked for that sent about a million bills per month.  They said they could promise a minimum of 12 days mail delay if we wanted to maximize late fees.  Really?  This is the type of business credit card banks run.  Keep playing the game, but remember that the house always wins.

Except paying a bill late wouldn’t come close to the thousands and thousands and thousands of dollars in benefits many of us have earned.  😃

[vjmatty]

9 hours ago, Biker19 said:

Again, the whole point of these schemes is to suck consumers into spending more than they would otherwise to chase points - the whole point of this thread.

Think of those of us who win this game as card-counters in a casino, but without getting thrown out or beaten up….you can totally come out ahead if you do it smartly. Pay off balances monthly, stick to purchases you would have made anyway, and set up automatic payments so you’re never late.

 

I get that you like to play devils advocate here sometimes, but there is a way to do this right. If you’re lucky, you’ll be deemed a “deadbeat” by the credit card company, which is a compliment because it means they never make interest off of you. 

Edited July 22, 2022 by vjmatty

[AlohaLivin]

1 hour ago, exm said:

 

I agree that there's a difference, but it's not mutual exclusive.

 

Opening credit cards doesn't necessarily hurt your credit, usually only by a few points. And I don't close cards that I open; I downgrade them. The key to open new credit cards is a bonus that's actually worth it: don't open a new cc with a $50-$200 bonus. Get the ones that give you 80,000 and up points. Usually those points if you have a Chase Sapphire Reserve are worth 1.5, so that's $1,200 worth of points. So if you want to stretch your dollars during retirement, that's the way to go.

Agree. Which is why I separated the issues 👍🏼 But it just isn’t what we do (opening new cards). Stretching is essential! I tell DH that my words for the year (ever year LOL) are maximize and optimize!

 

[exm]

6 minutes ago, AlohaLivin said:

Agree. Which is why I separated the issues 👍🏼 But it just isn’t what we do (opening new cards). Stretching is essential! I tell DH that my words for the year (ever year LOL) are maximize and optimize!

 

 

Talk to your DH and open some cards. If the credit score drops from 830 to 820, it won't make a difference.

 

Happy Cruising!

[Cruising89143]

We use Amex for everything and we do not spend just to chase points. We pay our charges in full each month. We used to use the Delta Amex but when we retired and moved west from the southeast we changed airlines and now use United more now due to United being stronger with more flight options out west. 
 

We added a new Amex that gives points for all types of travel. Works great. I also have a United card by Chase but seldom use it. Amex usually has deals with both RCI and Celebrity. 

[cricketts]

On 7/20/2022 at 11:21 AM, jules815 said:

Hi everyone, haven't posted here in a while but always lurking. Also, I had knee replacement surgery 3 weeks ago and am doing really well, but am bored out of my mind. 

 

My husband recently took early retirement after over 30 years in a high level, extremely stressful, IT position at a major bank. Best thing he's ever done!  Early in June we had the "what do you want to do in your retirement" meeting with our financial guy. Of course travel came up, and he told us about how his retired parents travel all the time using their accrued credit card points. We used to do something similar with our Marriott card rewards back when our daughters were in college and we'd travel to see them. For years we rarely paid for hotels. Anyway, we recently started using a credit card instead of our debit card for all of our purchases, including all the online recurring payments we have set up. Went on the Chase Ultimate Rewards website yesterday and blown away with how many points we already have with only one billing cycle. So now I understand how his retired parents are able to do all the travel. This is a very good thing! Cash back is also an option with this card.

 

In addition to flights, hotels, rental cars, etc., you can purchase cruises. (I also really like that you can use your points plus cash.) Several Royal Caribbean itineraries, including one to Bermuda from Baltimore on Enchantment that caught my eye.

 

Just curious if any other retirees play the points game and if this is how you afford to travel as much as you do. Have you ever booked a RC cruise using points?

 

We love our Chase Sapphire Reserve!  Not only 3 points per dollar travel, but, with the insurance coverage and travel rebate the card pays for itself!  We've not used the points for a cruise, but it's wonderful for air. In January, we'll be flying from DFW to Singapore via Helsinki and back through Tokyo. We'll circumnavigate the globe, all in business class, for $700 per person!!

[AlohaLivin]

1 hour ago, exm said:

 

Talk to your DH and open some cards. If the credit score drops from 830 to 820, it won't make a difference.

 

Happy Cruising!

You ever tried to convince a 30 yr veteran of the U.S. Marine Corps of something? 🤣😂 Semi kidding. He wouldn’t mind another, but the opening repeatedly would cause him to lose his mind.

 

[HBE4]

10 hours ago, Crapster said:

I preferred to capture a large chunk of rewards without having to manage a set of cards, so I went with the more *simple* use of a good Cash Back card. It’s a 2% cash reward card and allows the monthly cash back as a credit applied to the balance before paying the remaining balance. I didn't find I'd spend enough on specialty cards where above 2% would add up enough to be worth my time. (I do use a Chase AMAZON card tied only to my Amazon account for 5% cash back)

 

Cash Back translates to cash, easy peasy and eliminates the complication of “using” points and/or having to convert points to OBC’s.

 

I agree. I'm not a brand loyal guy so I don't want to be locked into a certain hotel chain or airline. I'd rather get the points in the form of cash back and let my wallet do the talking. For example, a lot of people seem to have great success with the Southwest card.  Earlier today, I was pricing a flight from NYC to Houston and of the five airlines: AA / JetBlue / Delta / United / Southwest, surprisingly Southwest was the most expensive, almost twice the price of AA.  Cash back points bought me a "free flight" on AA whereas if I had a Southwest card, that "free" flight would have been twice as expensive.  Not really a fan of AA but half the price (or points) can't be beat. Plus, don't have to worry about "blackout" dates.

 

I do have a BOA Royal Visa card - 2% on Royal purchases, 1% on all else, points expire after 5 years - which might be great for frequent Royal cruisers but unfortunately with limited vacation time & competing vacation interests,  I didn't really get to cruise enough to maximize the value. Plus, redeeming points always seemed like a hassle.

 

Now, my primary card is a Chase Freedom card. No fee, 3% cash back on Restaurants, food delivery  and pharmacy purchases, 1.5% on all other purchases. Other fun benefits: 5% cash back when booking thru travel thru Chase Ultimate Rewards and 5% cash back on gas purchases (first year only and $6,000 cap, making a killing on that this year🙂). Points never expire and the usual credit card protections: extended warranty, trip interruption coverage, car rental  damage waiver, etc

 

I also have a Discover card that I only use in whatever the 5% cash back category is that quarter.

 

 

[rudeney]

4 hours ago, KayRaeRae said:

Except paying a bill late wouldn’t come close to the thousands and thousands and thousands of dollars in benefits many of us have earned.  😃

 

Yes, one $40 late fee or over-limit fee won't make a dent in those benefits, but if you don't pay your bill in full and they start charging interest, that can easily run into a lot of money over time.  If you are diligent in making sure your bill is paid in full on time, then you'll be fine.

[KayRaeRae]

11 hours ago, rudeney said:

 

Yes, one $40 late fee or over-limit fee won't make a dent in those benefits, but if you don't pay your bill in full and they start charging interest, that can easily run into a lot of money over time.  If you are diligent in making sure your bill is paid in full on time, then you'll be fine.

Which is exactly why the house doesn’t always win.  😉 

[LMaxwell]

16 hours ago, exm said:

The key to open new credit cards is a bonus that's actually worth it: don't open a new cc with a $50-$200 bonus. 

Not sure I agree with this part.  I agree with your sentiment and other examples; to look for the most value rich bonuses. 

 

But some of the lower dollar amount offers I get in the $100-200 bonus range have such ridiculously low requirements to obtain the bonus.  Some only require 3 transactions, of any amount.  Some require only $500 in transactions; easy to pay some utility bills on it and be done.  

 

I only say this because I just redeemed one of those lower value sign up offers and just paid for my port parking with the credit statement.  

 

Never close them; usually request increased limits to lower my overall monthly utilization 😎

[molly361]

14 minutes ago, LMaxwell said:

Not sure I agree with this part.  I agree with your sentiment and other examples; to look for the most value rich bonuses. 

 

But some of the lower dollar amount offers I get in the $100-200 bonus range have such ridiculously low requirements to obtain the bonus.  Some only require 3 transactions, of any amount.  Some require only $500 in transactions; easy to pay some utility bills on it and be done.  

 

I only say this because I just redeemed one of those lower value sign up offers and just paid for my port parking with the credit statement.  

 

Never close them; usually request increased limits to lower my overall monthly utilization 😎

I agree  I have opened lots of cards over the years for the $100-$200 bonus. I confess to being a churner and my credit score is always over 800.  Some of them are on to me now darn it😇  Can't tell you how many B of A cards I had many years ago.  Buy a pack of gum and get $100 win win

[jules815]

So I'm not 100% sure if I'm correct, but doing a little more research (and watching several YouTube videos about Chase Ultimate Rewards), it looks like you may be able to transfer Ultimate Reward Points to Chase travel partners, only if you have a loyalty reward member number and not necessarily a credit card. For instance, we don't have a Chase United credit card, but we've had United Mileage Plus rewards numbers that we always use when we book travel on the United website. I think because we have the loyalty number, you can make the point transfer. Can anyone confirm this? 

 

 

[jules815]

31 minutes ago, jules815 said:

So I'm not 100% sure if I'm correct, but doing a little more research (and watching several YouTube videos about Chase Ultimate Rewards), it looks like you may be able to transfer Ultimate Reward Points to Chase travel partners, only if you have a loyalty reward member number and not necessarily a credit card. For instance, we don't have a Chase United credit card, but we've had United Mileage Plus rewards numbers that we always use when we book travel on the United website. I think because we have the loyalty number, you can make the point transfer. Can anyone confirm this? 

 

 

Obsessing a little over this, but did a deep dive on an Ultimate Rewards sub Reddit, and someone did confirm that yes, not necessary to have an actual credit card to transfer Ultimate Rewards points. You can transfer as long as you have a reward number with a Chase travel partner. (United, Hyatt, IHG, Southwest, etc.) This makes the game a little more interesting. 

[KayRaeRae]

19 minutes ago, jules815 said:

Obsessing a little over this, but did a deep dive on an Ultimate Rewards sub Reddit, and someone did confirm that yes, not necessary to have an actual credit card to transfer Ultimate Rewards points. You can transfer as long as you have a reward number with a Chase travel partner. (United, Hyatt, IHG, Southwest, etc.) This makes the game a little more interesting. 

You can transfer points to any Chase UR transfer partner as long as you create an account with said partner.  You do not have to open a specific CC other than your Chase card.   Here’s a list of airline partners.  

[jules815]

19 minutes ago, KayRaeRae said:

You can transfer points to any Chase UR transfer partner as long as you create an account with said partner.  You do not have to open a specific CC other than your Chase card.   Here’s a list of airline partners.  

 

Yes! This is fantastic news. We have an American Airlines card thru Citi, but not a United Airlines card thru Chase. We do travel about 50/50 between AA and United and have had Mileage Plus reward numbers for years. Same with Hyatt and IHG. Part of their rewards program, but don't have the credit card. I had no idea we could transfer points to a reward program without having the credit card. 

 

Here's one for you. I recently moved points from Freedom Unlimited to Sapphire Preferred. Can points be moved more than once? Could those points sitting on my Sapphire Preferred card be moved to a Chase travel partner?

 

 

 

[KayRaeRae]

36 minutes ago, jules815 said:

 

Yes! This is fantastic news. We have an American Airlines card thru Citi, but not a United Airlines card thru Chase. We do travel about 50/50 between AA and United and have had Mileage Plus reward numbers for years. Same with Hyatt and IHG. Part of their rewards program, but don't have the credit card. I had no idea we could transfer points to a reward program without having the credit card. 

 

Here's one for you. I recently moved points from Freedom Unlimited to Sapphire Preferred. Can points be moved more than once? Could those points sitting on my Sapphire Preferred card be moved to a Chase travel partner?

 

 

 

Yes, they can be moved ad nauseam.  You can also combine points with any other person living at your address.  
 

Also, the Chase to Hyatt redemption is usually the best in the game.