Surely its just a window you can open?

[Bo1953]

On 8/4/2022 at 8:38 AM, TeeRick said:

To this day I have not seen an explanation as to why Celebrity went in this IV direction for E-Class.  But although not for everybody, plenty of people seem to like or love the IV and the ships have plenty of passengers. So they had their reasons and I assume it was a big decision for them and it was well researched.  We have not sailed an IV so some here would remind me not to be negative about them and I have tried to be neutral.  My DW loves a real balcony and when we sailed EDGE it was in a CS.  On E-class we would sail in a suite or an aft sunset veranda.  I would prefer to not say who is "smart" but rather think that many folks do not know about the info here on CC.  But really, almost everybody will do some type of search and get information.  Why would I care one way or another?  It is pretty hard to be "duped" these day for most doing basic research.

tr - while I had not saved the info, yet in the announcement of Edge Class ships, there was a lengthy paper released on IV's and the research before hand and the resulting move towards that style of ship.

 

It was posted here on CC in the Edge Forum with some robust discussions (ha ha ha, who knew it would carry on to this day!!!) over the issue of being an OV with window that opened, how ugly the ship looked, etc... and more not covered in current discussions.

 

Yet, many of us followed along the build, a few of us were fortunate enough to be on the Maiden Voyage and a few of us were beneficiaries of experience(s) of those here who sailed The Edge during the first few sailings and beyond...

 

Ahhh, but a sweet memory of the pre-build days... there were former ship builders and engineers who chimed in on the discussions, too. Some accepted their professional opinions and some tried to bunk the opinions, of course the few of us commenting on the pro or con of the IV's were in that category of builder or engineer.. yet we chimed in regardless... LOL

 

bon voyage

[TeeRick]

Just now, Bo1953 said:

tr - while I had not saved the info, yet in the announcement of Edge Class ships, there was a lengthy paper released on IV's and the research before hand and the resulting move towards that style of ship.

 

It was posted here on CC in the Edge Forum with some robust discussions (ha ha ha, who knew it would carry on to this day!!!) over the issue of being an OV with window that opened, how ugly the ship looked, etc... and more not covered in current discussions.

 

Yet, many of us followed along the build, a few of us were fortunate enough to be on the Maiden Voyage and a few of us were beneficiaries of experience(s) of those here who sailed The Edge during the first few sailings and beyond...

 

Ahhh, but a sweet memory of the pre-build days... there were former ship builders and engineers who chimed in on the discussions, too. Some accepted their professional opinions and some tried to bunk the opinions, of course the few of us commenting on the pro or con of the IV's were in that category of builder or engineer.. yet we chimed in regardless... LOL

 

bon voyage

Bo I remember those days and those posts.  And of course I fondly remember member vtcruising.😇

[Bo1953]

Just now, TeeRick said:

Bo I remember those days and those posts.  And of course I fondly remember member vtcruising.😇

tr - I, for some reason, have archived all of her messages to me... and I do re-read them every few months to get a renewed grip on living and life and her influence on how I view cruising and specifically X, even though she did sail other lines, X was her line of choice and it showed!!!

 

Unlike me, often, she was very even tempered and gracious...

 

Thank you for mentioning her - bon voyage

[Spif Barwunkel]

6 minutes ago, TeeRick said:

Sorry Spif but I'm confused.  Was your case for the Prosecution or the Defense?  Regardless it will be cross examined.

Spif, for the defense, your honor.

[Oceangoer2]

1 hour ago, Spif Barwunkel said:

Just as I thought, sometimes the simplest of questions, for many folks, are the most difficult to answer. A case in point, my question in post #160.

 

Remove the top window on the balcony of an ‘E’ class Infinite Veranda cabin and you call it a balcony cabin with one stationary window. Same definition applies to the ‘S’ & ‘M’ class standard balconies, one stationary window.

 

I really don’t care if cruisers don’t like Celebrity’s ‘E’ Class IV cabins, whether they have cruised in one, or not. Obviously, not their choice. You don’t like the two-window configuration and seating arrangements on the balcony of an IV cabin. Just say that. It is quite humorous reading other absurd comments like hair drying capability, railing height, cabin temperature, room with a window or ocean view and “sitting in a box”, all superfluous drivel.

 

I rest my case.

 

Prosecutor, Defense, and Judge all in one!  Left out witness...assuming you have been in an IV cabin.

[TeeRick]

53 minutes ago, Bo1953 said:

tr - I, for some reason, have archived all of her messages to me... and I do re-read them every few months to get a renewed grip on living and life and her influence on how I view cruising and specifically X, even though she did sail other lines, X was her line of choice and it showed!!!

 

Unlike me, often, she was very even tempered and gracious...

 

Thank you for mentioning her - bon voyage

Bo that is very nice.  Many here would say that you are also even tempered and gracious too.

 

Do you save my posts too?  Perhaps in your archive called "trash"?😀

[NMTraveller]

18 hours ago, Spif Barwunkel said:

I have a simple question. Regular Veranda cabin, Infinite Veranda cabin, side by side, veranda doors open. Remove the top window from the IV balcony leaving just the bottom casement. Other than the more modern presentation of the IV cabin, what is the difference between the two and what are you now going to call it? Close the balcony doors to both and you are in that "box" on both. If you sit on your regular veranda with the doors open and the AC on, shame on you, that is inexcusable.  

At first I did not think that this was a serious question, but here goes.

 

In the IV how can my DW sit in the air conditioned room while I sit out in the box with the window open?  My understanding is that the AC goes off when the window is opened.

I can do this on a true balcony.  My wife can do her makeup and hair in the air conditioned room while I sit out on the balcony and relax.

 

Also the box is rather small and uninviting.  Not  something that I would choose.  The balconies have plenty of space in them.  They are good for people who spend large amounts of time on the balcony.  Why spend large amounts of time in a small box?  

 

Do I prefer opening a window at home or going out on the balcony?  Most of the time the answer is going out on the balcony.

 

For us the IVs are just unworkable and the size is disappointing.  I fail to see the similarities.  It does seem like an upgrade from a window view, but a downgrade from a true balcony.

Edited August 5, 2022 by NMTraveller

[Pinboy]

I doubt Celebrity's design " Team " ( 43 recent graduates in Hospitality ) spent as much time as  we " Experts " ( see post 156 ) on Ship Renovations.

( Everyone is on a "Team" these days so they don't have to take personal responsibility for goof-ups like IV Balcony's ).

LOL---A cubby hole with a $%^#$%^ window ain't no balcony .

( Guess who's golf game was terrible yesterday ) ???

 

 

 

[kwokpot]

23 minutes ago, NMTraveller said:

In the IV how can my DW sit in the air conditioned room while I sit out in the box with the window open?  My understanding is that the AC goes off when the window is opened.

You are correct, you cannot do what you are proposing. 

[NMTraveller]

14 minutes ago, Pinboy said:

I doubt Celebrity's design " Team " ( 43 recent graduates in Hospitality ) spent as much time as  we " Experts " ( see post 156 ) on Ship Renovations.

( Everyone is on a "Team" these days so they don't have to take personal responsibility for goof-ups like IV Balcony's ).

LOL---A cubby hole with a $%^#$%^ window ain't no balcony .

( Guess who's golf game was terrible yesterday ) ???

 

 

 

I think that the CFO  and shareholders had more of an impact that the Hospitality team.  Profits or user experience.  Profits won.

Edited August 5, 2022 by NMTraveller

[kwokpot]

1 hour ago, Bo1953 said:

tr - while I had not saved the info, yet in the announcement of Edge Class ships, there was a lengthy paper released on IV's and the research before hand and the resulting move towards that style of ship.

 

It was posted here on CC in the Edge Forum with some robust discussions (ha ha ha, who knew it would carry on to this day!!!) over the issue of being an OV with window that opened, how ugly the ship looked, etc... and more not covered in current discussions.

 

Yet, many of us followed along the build, a few of us were fortunate enough to be on the Maiden Voyage and a few of us were beneficiaries of experience(s) of those here who sailed The Edge during the first few sailings and beyond...

 

Ahhh, but a sweet memory of the pre-build days... there were former ship builders and engineers who chimed in on the discussions, too. Some accepted their professional opinions and some tried to bunk the opinions, of course the few of us commenting on the pro or con of the IV's were in that category of builder or engineer.. yet we chimed in regardless... LOL

 

bon voyage

I was on one of the maiden voyages; the Edge's 12/16/18 Maiden Eastern Caribbean cruise and second full week paying cruise and besides the whole IV issue one thing that hasn't been brought up again but was a major design fail was the closing of the cafe adjacent to the Martini Bar. That definitely was an epic failure when it was already closed for my cruise, still considered a maiden voyage.

 

I'm sure conceptually the idea that the Grand Plaza have a food component seemed like a great concept but in realty it competed with Cafe Al Bacio and I assume in the FAM tours it literally got zero usage to the extent that by the second paying cruise it was already deemed a failure and closed!

[Pinboy]

Just now, NMTraveller said:

I think that the CFO  and shareholders had more of an impact that the Hospitality team.  Profits or user experience.  Profits won.

Of course---- 

LOL-- My post ( #183 ) was only meant as a bit of humor .

 

[basil1]

I haven't sailed in an IV yet so won't say that I don't like it, however I don't like the idea of it. Basically it appears to be a  window that you can open, as stated in the video. I want to be able to step outside. I also usually sit on the balcony while hubby is taking a shower and I guess in a Caribbean destination (or other warm weather locale) that might not work very well. I really want to sail on one of the E class ships but apparently to get a real balcony cabin one must book their cruise a year in advance (or so it seems).    I also agree with whoever said if that's a balcony then I have lots of them in my house. lol

[kwokpot]

6 minutes ago, basil1 said:

I haven't sailed in an IV yet so won't say that I don't like it, however I don't like the idea of it. Basically it appears to be a  window that you can open, as stated in the video. I want to be able to step outside. I also usually sit on the balcony while hubby is taking a shower and I guess in a Caribbean destination (or other warm weather locale) that might not work very well. I really want to sail on one of the E class ships but apparently to get a real balcony cabin one must book their cruise a year in advance (or so it seems).    I also agree with whoever said if that's a balcony then I have lots of them in my house. lol

I again preface this comment that I enjoy staying in a IV cabin. But you're exactly right, you are not outside, you're inside with a big window that's open. I'm not sure how people can equate the two.

[Cruising89143]

On 8/3/2022 at 8:40 AM, kwokpot said:

SO I did some quick cruise searching and the results are quite interesting. Feb 2,2023 MSC World Europa from Dubai. Trying to compare Apple to Apples (Which is difficult with the way MSC prices their cabins) an Oceanview is $1,356/cabin An Infinite Ocean View $1,616 and the lowest priced balcony $1,476. The reason for this is the room size. Oceanviews vary from 161-172 Sq Ft, IO is 215 Sq Ft , and Balconies 172 Sq Ft with 54 Sq Ft Balcony. 

 

I like this design. Probably would not book it as we still prefer a traditional balcony but a much better design than Celebrity. 

[Sascol]

3 hours ago, NMTraveller said:

Also the box is rather small and uninviting.  Not  something that I would choose.  The balconies have plenty of space in them.  They are good for people who spend large amounts of time on the balcony.  Why spend large amounts of time in a small box?  

 

 

We have been on 25+ cruises w/ balconies.  While I do not have specific measurements, the bulk of the balconies we have had (including on Celebrity ships) have really been no larger than the area provided in the 'small box' you are referencing.

[kearney]

4 hours ago, Bo1953 said:

tr - I, for some reason, have archived all of her messages to me... and I do re-read them every few months to get a renewed grip on living and life and her influence on how I view cruising and specifically X, even though she did sail other lines, X was her line of choice and it showed!!!

 

Unlike me, often, she was very even tempered and gracious...

 

Thank you for mentioning her - bon voyage

Boy we had some great discussions..speculating on Edge before she launched... good times... I was so sorry when she passed.. she was a great asset to the Celebrity CC boards.

[kearney]

One of the surprises I experienced on one of Edge's early sailing was when I tried to use the Ap one morning...while in bed pulling into port. I hit the 'morning' button... the lights came on slowly..which is what I expected...however.. the blinds also went up..which was a bit of a surprise while pulling into port...:) 

[UnorigionalName]

3 hours ago, Pinboy said:

( Everyone is on a "Team" these days so they don't have to take personal responsibility for goof-ups like IV Balcony's ).

 

Why do you say it's a goof-up?  Pretty sure the team responsible got a hefty bonus.  Why do you think other cruise lines are following suit?

 

They don't need people to like IV.  They just need people to not hate it enough that it's worth the significant fuel savings.

[Ipeeinthepools]

38 minutes ago, UnorigionalName said:

...

They don't need people to like IV.  They just need people to not hate it enough that it's worth the significant fuel savings.

 

Yea, they do need to have people really like IV balconies because there are other cruise lines.  Instead of becoming repeat customers, people will leave and sail a ship with real balconies.

 

If fuel savings was really such a big deal, why didn't they integrate IV's into the suite cabins?  Don't you think many suite passengers want to be green?

[Oceangoer2]

34 minutes ago, Ipeeinthepools said:

If fuel savings was really such a big deal, why didn't they integrate IV's into the suite cabins?  Don't you think many suite passengers want to be green?

But.....fuel savings ARE a big deal........and.....X is ensuring that suite passengers are dearly paying for being 'green' if balconies can be considered a concession to environmental concerns.

[Pinboy]

2 hours ago, UnorigionalName said:

They just need people to not hate it enough that it's worth the significant fuel savings.

Now you got it--

" people to not hate it enough "

Why would that be a criteria ( not hate it enough ) ??

If you " hate " anything about it, why go ??

[UnorigionalName]

1 hour ago, Ipeeinthepools said:

 

Yea, they do need to have people really like IV balconies because there are other cruise lines.  Instead of becoming repeat customers, people will leave and sail a ship with real balconies.

 

If fuel savings was really such a big deal, why didn't they integrate IV's into the suite cabins?  Don't you think many suite passengers want to be green?

 

Lol, being green is just marketing.  The fuel savings is $$$

 

Right, so if people disliked IV cabins, there would be less demand. Cruise lines all use dynamic pricing, to keep ships sailing full, so if demand is down, that means price would go down.

 

So it comes down to something like this:

 

which is more: (Price you can charge as IV + fuel savings) vs (price you can charge as traditional balcony). 

 

As fuel costs go up, the price "premium" for traditional balcony would have to be larger and larger to make up for the benefit in fuel savings.

 

There was one celebrity quarterly investor meeting before the pandemic, where they said they were pleasantly surprised that the IV's were selling actually as a premium vs traditional balcony (don't know how their internal data showed it).  That's just icing on the cake for them, double win.   Don't know what their data shows now, but looking at all the cruise lines following them...  There might actually people who don't post on this forum that prefer IV, or it might be a novelty thing and eventually people will decide they like traditional balconies, or it might end up most people don't really even care. who knows.

Edited August 5, 2022 by UnorigionalName

[vjmatty]

2 hours ago, Ipeeinthepools said:

 

Yea, they do need to have people really like IV balconies because there are other cruise lines.  

And because there are so many on a given ship! My first discovery of this new hybrid or half-step between OV and balcony was when I was looking to book a cruise on Apex. Once I realized what it is and chose a porthole balcony instead, as SV were sold out, I was very surprised with the percentages of IV on these ships, and was even more surprised that those were the only choices for Concierge and even Aqua class.

 

After reading this lengthy thread, the IV is obviously not for everyone, myself included for the reasons mentioned in here. I’m glad there are people who like them, that frees up the small number of SV and porthole balconies for those of us who don’t feel like shelling out for suites on every cruise. But I agree with those who say it’s not a true balcony. That’s not maligning them or disparaging those who choose to book IVs.  I mean, there’s nothing wrong with saying I  really like IVs but I know they’re not balconies. 

[NMTraveller]

6 hours ago, Sascol said:

 

We have been on 25+ cruises w/ balconies.  While I do not have specific measurements, the bulk of the balconies we have had (including on Celebrity ships) have really been no larger than the area provided in the 'small box' you are referencing.

Actually S-class has 52 sq ft verandas (real balconies) and the IVs are 42 square feet.  The problem with the IVs is they are a long strip vs a more square shape.  Try laying down at all angles in the box.  I bet you can't do it.  The skinny strip box in the video just looks ridiculously small.  It is just ridiculous.

 

Did Carnival design this?

 

Heres to large real balconies for everyone 🍷

Edited August 5, 2022 by NMTraveller