Are Rogue Waves Rare? Aren't Cruise Ships (e.g. windows) Designed to Withstand Rouge Waves?

[mnocket]

One person died and four others were injured after a giant "rogue wave" hit an Antarctica-bound cruise ship, travel company Viking said.

(This happened Tuesday)

https://news.yahoo.com/giant-rogue-wave-hits-antartica-144147601.html

 

 

Edited December 2, 2022 by mnocket

[ldubs]

Wow, that had to be a huge wave.  Sad to hear of the injuries and death.  

[chengkp75]

Recent research has suggested that there are 10 rogue waves in the world's oceans at any given time.

 

The windows are designed to the best possible standards, but anything can break when enough force is placed against it.  Say that a window is 18" square.  A three foot tall column of water on that window exerts over 400 lbs of force on the window.  That is a static column of water, not one striking the window at speed.  Those lower deck windows likely saw about 1000 to 2000 lbs of force against them.  I've seen waves, not what I would consider "rogue" waves bend steel structures on ships, let alone break windows.  The windows are tempered safety glass, so they shatter into small round pellets.

[chengkp75]

Did a little more research, and found that scientists say that a "normal" breaking wave (not one driven by storm force, which would add more force to the impact) of about 20' height, would exert about 6000 pounds of force for every square inch.  Looking at the windows, they are likely 36" by 96", so the force of a wave hitting that window would be about 10,000 tons of force.  It appears that the superstructure around the window was distorted, and the entire window flew into the cabin, and would have exerted the same amount of force on anything it struck inside the cabin.

[mnocket]

1 hour ago, chengkp75 said:

Did a little more research, and found that scientists say that a "normal" breaking wave (not one driven by storm force, which would add more force to the impact) of about 20' height, would exert about 6000 pounds of force for every square inch.  Looking at the windows, they are likely 36" by 96", so the force of a wave hitting that window would be about 10,000 tons of force.  It appears that the superstructure around the window was distorted, and the entire window flew into the cabin, and would have exerted the same amount of force on anything it struck inside the cabin.

Thanks.  I just thought this incident was kind of interesting because I've seen numerous posts of people sitting calmly by windows as waves washed up totally covering the window.  I'm thinking if I ever experience this I'll move on up to a higher deck🌊

[GeezerCouple]

1 hour ago, chengkp75 said:

Did a little more research, and found that scientists say that a "normal" breaking wave (not one driven by storm force, which would add more force to the impact) of about 20' height, would exert about 6000 pounds of force for every square inch.  Looking at the windows, they are likely 36" by 96", so the force of a wave hitting that window would be about 10,000 tons of force.  It appears that the superstructure around the window was distorted, and the entire window flew into the cabin, and would have exerted the same amount of force on anything it struck inside the cabin.

 

Thanks as always for the information you provide.

 

I thought I read somewhere that the windows were tempered glass, the type used in cars, where instead of shattering into shards that could be like razor edges, they break into very small "pebble" type fragments.  Those could certainly be dangerous, depending upon just where they hit someone and at what speed, but this isn't matching the description I've read of the incident - and exactly "what happened to her" is obviously not completely clear.

 

However, it is a horrible tragedy!

I suppose it's good that the damage and harm to people wasn't worse, but that's no consolation to this woman and her relatives and others close to her.

 

GC

[chengkp75]

From the reports I've read, it would appear that the superstructure around the window buckled under the same force, and the entire window and frame blew out, and that plate of glass would inflict the same force upon anything or anyone it encountered in the cabin.

[bob brown]

I guess there is some benefit of occupying an Inside Cabin....

[chengkp75]

1 minute ago, bob brown said:

I guess there is some benefit of occupying an Inside Cabin....

Then again, the NCL Dawn hit a rogue wave, stove in some forward cabin windows, and flooded 62 cabins, a good number of insides.

[bbwex]

The bottom line is that rogue waves are very rare, but they do exist.  There are a lot of cruise ships out there, and only  a few incidences of them running into one.  That being said, there can be very rough seas -- I have been out there in 50 foot seas -- so while rogue waves might be very rare, a day of very high seas can happen as well.  Again, not terribly common, but Mother Nature can throw a curve ball now and again.

 

Chengkp75: where did you retire to in Maine???

[chengkp75]

Just now, bbwex said:

The bottom line is that rogue waves are very rare, but they do exist.  There are a lot of cruise ships out there, and only  a few incidences of them running into one.  That being said, there can be very rough seas -- I have been out there in 50 foot seas -- so while rogue waves might be very rare, a day of very high seas can happen as well.  Again, not terribly common, but Mother Nature can throw a curve ball now and again.

 

Chengkp75: where did you retire to in Maine???

Portland and Sebago.

[bbwex]

23 hours ago, chengkp75 said:

Portland and Sebago.

We spend June through October in Kennebunkport.  Perhaps we can arrange to meet sometime.  My boat is in Portland, and I spend a fair amount of time in Portland volunteering for the Coast Guard Auxiliary.

[ldubs]

On 12/4/2022 at 2:02 PM, bbwex said:

The bottom line is that rogue waves are very rare, but they do exist.  There are a lot of cruise ships out there, and only  a few incidences of them running into one.  That being said, there can be very rough seas -- I have been out there in 50 foot seas -- so while rogue waves might be very rare, a day of very high seas can happen as well.  Again, not terribly common, but Mother Nature can throw a curve ball now and again.

 

Chengkp75: where did you retire to in Maine???

 

Thanks.  Any idea how large this wave was?  I have no idea how big it would need to be to wash into those window cabins.   

[Gwendy]

We were on Pacific Sun in 2007 when she was hit by a rogue wave in South Pacific. The whole ship heeled over and then, thankfully righted itself.

The duty free shop was trashed, all displays wrecked, a piano skidded from one side of the room to another, much more interior damage.  One window cracked on a top deck.  Thankfully only one passenger injured, she fell off a top bunk.

My mother was playing Bingo on Deck 10 and when I found her, she commented, I thought it was strange when the water came up to the window.

That was my first cruise, have done over 50 since then, including Antarctica, never experienced anything like that again.

[Hlitner]

I think a bigger issue (other than a wave) is whether the design/engineering of the exploration ship was reasonable.   Cruise lines have followed a long trend of enlarging windows and putting more balconies (with sliding doors) on relatively low decks.  But on the Viking ship they used a design (somewhat similar to the so-called Infinity Cabins on Celebrity) that allowed the relatively large windows to be opened (from the top). 

 

There was a reason why port holes were designed with small thick panes and routinely used on lower decks and in forward cabins.  On the old Prinsendam the port hole cabins (on the forward lower passenger deck) even had large steel shutters which would be closed and secured with two large bolts in the event of rough seas.   But the large windows on the Viking ship are on a relatively low deck.  One wonders whether the large size and split panes (so they can open) as well as a frame designed to allow the windows to open, was a good idea given the expected itineraries of the vessel.   We will all need to wait for the results of a decent independent investigation to know the answers.   But it does not take an investigation to understand that these windows failed, in a catastrophic way.

 

Hank

[bbwex]

While we can wonder about the strength of the windows, you have to appreciate the power of the ocean.  Very large seas are very powerful.  While in the South Pacific in the Navy, we were in 50 foot seas on a beautiful, sunny day, but had to slow down as one of the destroyers with us was being damaged by the seas.  The USS PITTSBURGH had 100 feet of her bow sheered off in a typhoon (hurricane for those in the eastern U.S.). 

 

So whether the Viking ship was built to withstand expected events is likely to require a pretty in-depth analysis of the design.

[bob brown]

On 12/8/2022 at 6:45 PM, Hlitner said:

I think a bigger issue (other than a wave) is whether the design/engineering of the exploration ship was reasonable.   Cruise lines have followed a long trend of enlarging windows and putting more balconies (with sliding doors) on relatively low decks.  But on the Viking ship they used a design (somewhat similar to the so-called Infinity Cabins on Celebrity) that allowed the relatively large windows to be opened (from the top). 

 

There was a reason why port holes were designed with small thick panes and routinely used on lower decks and in forward cabins.  On the old Prinsendam the port hole cabins (on the forward lower passenger deck) even had large steel shutters which would be closed and secured with two large bolts in the event of rough seas.   But the large windows on the Viking ship are on a relatively low deck.  One wonders whether the large size and split panes (so they can open) as well as a frame designed to allow the windows to open, was a good idea given the expected itineraries of the vessel.   We will all need to wait for the results of a decent independent investigation to know the answers.   But it does not take an investigation to understand that these windows failed, in a catastrophic way.

 

Hank

Good points.   I recall visiting my friend's cabin on a recent Baltic cruise on the NCL Dawn.  She had one of those nice forward view balcony's, but the regular door to the balcony, was backed up by a strong water tight type door....

[BruceMuzz]

Rogue waves are one thing.

Rouge waves are quite another thing.

[mnocket]

9 hours ago, BruceMuzz said:

Rogue waves are one thing.

Rouge waves are quite another thing.

Unless they're rouge rogue waves - then they're one in the same😁