Project Discovery

[Ourusualbeach]

10 minutes ago, John&LaLa said:

Will look for any questions on Discovery this weekend

 

Typical of a President Cruise Q&A I'd guess

LOL😉

[Fairsky84]

Royal Caribbean CEO Michael Bayley said the company is considering building a smaller class of ships to replace the Vision and Radiance-classes. Responding to an audience question about building ships smaller than Oasis and Icon classes while onboard Allure of the Seas, he said:
 

"It is something that's certainly deeply in our consideration and our planning at the moment that we have a lot of conceptual work going on....I think when we're ready we can we can announce steps that will take to to do just that."
 

Bayley mentioned that some smaller classes of ships are getting older, but he did not mention any Vision or Radiance-class ships by name. He continued:

 

"It's very much in the forefront of our minds. We understand that we need to think and act on this... But we're in no position to make any statements or comments about it for obvious reasons."

Here's hoping RCI announces a new class of ships smaller than the Quantum-class—perhaps in the 120,000 - 140,000 grt range—that are able to visit smaller ports on more exotic itineraries.

Without a replacement for the Vision and Radiance-class, RCI would be abandoning this segment of the market and force their customers who want such cruises to upgrade to Celebrity. Honestly, given the brand's reputation for megaships with "Wow!" features and the profitability of these vessels, I could see Royal Caribbean leaving the medium/smaller ship market to its other brands. Time will tell. 

Edited July 25, 2023 by Fairsky84

[volk904]

I think RCCL could be creative and and design a smaller ship that would meet all needs. The biggest issue in Tampa and probably Baltimore is the ships height so maybe you just create a ship not quite as tall.  

[Nathan Graveson]

5 hours ago, Fairsky84 said:

Royal Caribbean CEO Michael Bayley said the company is considering building a smaller class of ships to replace the Vision and Radiance-classes. Responding to an audience question about building ships smaller than Oasis and Icon classes while onboard Allure of the Seas, he said:
 

"It is something that's certainly deeply in our consideration and our planning at the moment that we have a lot of conceptual work going on....I think when we're ready we can we can announce steps that will take to to do just that."
 

Bayley mentioned that some smaller classes of ships are getting older, but he did not mention any Vision or Radiance-class ships by name. He continued:

 

"It's very much in the forefront of our minds. We understand that we need to think and act on this... But we're in no position to make any statements or comments about it for obvious reasons."

Here's hoping RCI announces a new class of ships smaller than the Quantum-class—perhaps in the 120,000 - 140,000 grt range—that are able to visit smaller ports on more exotic itineraries.

Without a replacement for the Vision and Radiance-class, RCI would be abandoning this segment of the market and force their customers who want such cruises to upgrade to Celebrity. Honestly, given the brand's reputation for megaships with "Wow!" features and the profitability of these vessels, I could see Royal Caribbean leaving the medium/smaller ship market to its other brands. Time will tell. 

RCCL have the perfect opportunity to use the Edge Class design from Celebrity as a basis for this new class. Firstly, the Parabolic Ultra-Bow is being used on both the Edge Class and the Icon Class, that is the bow of the future. Secondly, they have the opportunity to either use LNG or the new system for Celebrity Excel/Vertex which has the potential for 3 different fuel types. Thirdly, the use of Infinite balconies on the Edge Class is so perfect that it would almost be impossible for RCCL to not use them all over the ship. They will almost certainly redesign the ship to be more Royal in style but it could use the same dimensions as the larger Edge Class ships as it would keep the ship at around that 130,000 GT range. The development of the Discovery Class, is almost certainly underway, it has been for a long time already, I wouldn’t be surprised if we know more about this next year when RCCL put their order in with Meyer Werft for the construction of the first ship for either 2027/2028.

[Lloyd555]

Following. 

 

[orville99]

Whatever they decide to do, unless it can fit under the Skyway bridge in Tampa or be able to navigate Baltimore, it would also kill their Alaska market because it wouldn’t fit under the Bridge of the Americas so Panama Canal transits would be out.

[deliver42]

I just hope they put as much effort in the smaller ships as they do on the Monsters of the Seas.

[chengkp75]

3 hours ago, orville99 said:

Whatever they decide to do, unless it can fit under the Skyway bridge in Tampa or be able to navigate Baltimore, it would also kill their Alaska market because it wouldn’t fit under the Bridge of the Americas so Panama Canal transits would be out.

The Skyway bridge has an air draft of 180.5 feet, the Key bridge in Baltimore is 185 feet, and the Bridge of the Americas in Panama is 201 feet, all at high tide.  So, a ship could not fit under the Skyway or Key bridges, but still clear the Bridge of the Americas.

[CarnivalShips480]

In Baltimore we also have the Chesapeake Bay Bridge, which is 186 feet. Doesn't matter for this since the FSK Bridge has the same clearance, but just a FYI for those who didn't know

[Chiliburn]

I think the biggest problem at the moment is what kind of fuel a smaller ship would use.

LNG would take up too much room and oil is out of the question.

Ammonia or hydrogen is just around the corner so that’s a possibility.

 

Pull Celebrity Egde drawings out ,put in a waterpark and slide with Ammonia hybrid fuel and we have Discovery of the seas.

[smokeybandit]

Ammonia and hydrogen are still a long way off from being anything more than a supplement (like in port or in sensitive areas) to traditional engine fuels.

[Chiliburn]

53 minutes ago, smokeybandit said:

Ammonia and hydrogen are still a long way off from being anything more than a supplement (like in port or in sensitive areas) to traditional engine fuels.

It’s not here yet but this is a couple of years ago .

I believe there engine is multi fuel as you said they can switch over in environmental areas.

 

https://www.linkedin.com/posts/wärtsilä-i-norge_the-engine-reinvented-worlds-first-full-activity-6983698318992261120-cnAr?utm_source=li_share&utm_content=feedcontent&utm_medium=g_dt_web&utm_campaign=copy

Edited October 25, 2023 by Chiliburn

[chengkp75]

2 hours ago, Chiliburn said:

I think the biggest problem at the moment is what kind of fuel a smaller ship would use.

LNG would take up too much room and oil is out of the question.

Ammonia or hydrogen is just around the corner so that’s a possibility.

 

Pull Celebrity Egde drawings out ,put in a waterpark and slide with Ammonia hybrid fuel and we have Discovery of the seas.

Ammonia requires twice the volume of LNG, and hydrogen three times the volume of LNG, for the same energy output.  Hydrogen carries its own problems with the cryogenics involved (-161*C for LNG, -259*C for hydrogen).  And, Viking is building new ships to be eventually fully fueled by hydrogen (900 passenger range).

Edited October 25, 2023 by chengkp75

[Chiliburn]

8 minutes ago, chengkp75 said:

Ammonia requires twice the volume of LNG, and hydrogen three times the volume of LNG, for the same energy output.  Hydrogen carries its own problems with the cryogenics involved (-161*C for LNG, -259*C for hydrogen).  And, Viking is building new ships to be eventually fully fueled by hydrogen (900 passenger range).

Isn’t ammonia in a liquid?

But my point is ,in a rapidly changing world.Oil is getting a bad rap and LNG seems to have it’s drawbacks.

They would have to find alternatives for a ship of the future .

[chengkp75]

7 minutes ago, Chiliburn said:

Isn’t ammonia in a liquid?

But my point is ,in a rapidly changing world.Oil is getting a bad rap and LNG seems to have it’s drawbacks.

They would have to find alternatives for a ship of the future .

Yes, the volumetric energy densities I listed are for liquid fuel.  Ammonia is liquified at -33*C, so is not so cyrogenic as LNG or hydrogen.  But, liquid ammonia still requires twice the volume as liquid LNG, to provide the same energy output.  As I've said, Viking is already building ships for hydrogen fuel use, and RCI has placed hydrogen fuel cells, of increasing size, on Oasis and Quantum class ships for about 8 years.  But, supply is the biggest stumbling block.

Edited October 25, 2023 by chengkp75

[Chiliburn]

1 hour ago, chengkp75 said:

Yes, the volumetric energy densities I listed are for liquid fuel.  Ammonia is liquified at -33*C, so is not so cyrogenic as LNG or hydrogen.  But, liquid ammonia still requires twice the volume as liquid LNG, to provide the same energy output.  As I've said, Viking is already building ships for hydrogen fuel use, and RCI has placed hydrogen fuel cells, of increasing size, on Oasis and Quantum class ships for about 8 years.  But, supply is the biggest stumbling block.

Yes ,at the moment supply is the biggest problem but it will change. In the short term a multi fuelled ship would be more practical . Oil ,ethanol,ammonia and maybe a gas.

 

In Australia we have lots of sun and Japan along with our Government is currently investing heavily in green Hydrogen . I believe California is also. It won’t be long before it’s common place.California and Japan seems to set the standard.

 

I wasn’t aware Royal was already using hydrogen fuel cells on their ships. What ships are they ?

Edited October 26, 2023 by Chiliburn

[Mum2Mercury]

I'm not well informed on all this, but I'd welcome more mid-sized ships.  I think Indy, Freedom and Liberty are the best!  

[chengkp75]

8 hours ago, Chiliburn said:

I wasn’t aware Royal was already using hydrogen fuel cells on their ships. What ships are they ?

I don't know which ships specifically, but any Oasis or Quantum class ship built after 2015 will have some small scale (maybe up to a couple megawatts) fuel cells installed.

[CroNich]

This is exciting news, I was wondering how feasible it would be to basically have an entire fleet consisting of ships over 200,000 gt. What would you guys like to see for these new ships? Personally I’d love:

 

• a proper promenade deck with restaurants bars hot tubs
• Big swimming pools like on the edge and icon
• A solarium up the front with no aqua theatre 
• solo rooms with a lounge for solo travellers
• a water park and if physically possible a lazy river of sorts

[Saab4444]

24 minutes ago, CroNich said:

This is exciting news, I was wondering how feasible it would be to basically have an entire fleet consisting of ships over 200,000 gt. What would you guys like to see for these new ships? Personally I’d love:

 

• a proper promenade deck with restaurants bars hot tubs
• Big swimming pools like on the edge and icon
• A solarium up the front with no aqua theatre 
• solo rooms with a lounge for solo travellers
• a water park and if physically possible a lazy river of sorts

This is about smaller new ships who are able to reach nicer ports around the World and not about more Monsters who do standard Caribbean runs. With such a standardized fleet of Monsters Royal can delete most areas like Northern Europe, Eastern Med, Alaska and Canada from their itineraries.

[CroNich]

1 minute ago, Saab4444 said:

This is about smaller new ships who are able to reach nicer ports around the World and not about more Monsters who do standard Caribbean runs. With such a standardized fleet of Monsters Royal can delete most areas like Northern Europe, Eastern Med, Alaska and Canada from their itineraries.

Thanks old man, not really sure how anything I said negates the ship being smaller and being able to go to more exotic ports but go off.

[Saab4444]

2 minutes ago, CroNich said:

Thanks old man, not really sure how anything I said negates the ship being smaller and being able to go to more exotic ports but go off.

Before offending others you should try to read your own post about an „entire fleet of ships over 200,000 GT“. Enjoy your waterparks!

[CroNich]

1 minute ago, Saab4444 said:

Before offending others you should try to read your own post about an „entire fleet of ships over 200,000 GT“. Enjoy your waterparks!

My comprehension skills are just fine, it seems like it may be you who needs to go back to English class. I said having an entire ships over 200,000 GT would not likely be feasible… but yes you can still put a water park on a ship much smaller; look at MSC, Norwegian, carnival, Disney etc… it’s royal Caribbean btw, if you’re offended by a waterpark the celebrity cruises page is just a few clicks away. Now leave me alone!

[Shipof6Fools]

On 10/25/2023 at 3:26 PM, Chiliburn said:

I think the biggest problem at the moment is what kind of fuel a smaller ship would use.

LNG would take up too much room and oil is out of the question.

Ammonia or hydrogen is just around the corner so that’s a possibility.

 

Pull Celebrity Egde drawings out ,put in a waterpark and slide with Ammonia hybrid fuel and we have Discovery of the seas.

Explora Journeys has two LNG vessels slated for construction in 2027 and 2028 that will be well under 100,000 GT.  The article states they will be slightly enlarged an extra 19 meters over their current ships. Explora 1 and 2 are a svelte 63900 GT at 813 feet long. So I think it is possible to use LNG and stay around Radiance class in size, although I personally think Discovery class will be larger than that.

[toad455]

Grandeur is probably gone by 2025. Enchantment, Rhapsody & Vision are probably right behind them. The Voyager-class turns 30 in 2029. RCCL definitely needs new replacements for these ships that can sail to smaller ports. Also, not everyone is a fan of the Oasis & Quantum-class ships. Icon-class is also in that mega-ship catergory.