Using flights by the cruise company

[Mom2011]

We booked our flights with our cruise to arrive a day early to avoid air travel issues, and to sightsee a day in Rome.  We just received an email that the airline has switched us to arriving the day of our cruise.  I called Celebrity Air, and they arranged to switch the flights back to going a day early.  We were to be on the lookout for a confirmation email.  It didn't come, so I called Celebrity Air who told us that Lufthansa had rejected the switch.

I went online to Lufthansa's website and found that there were 3 seats available.  So I called Lufthansa who said that you could only book those online.  I politely told them what I thought of our treatment by them and was met with silence.  The call was not disconnected, they just refused to respond to me.

I will never use Lufthansa again!  I asked if Celebrity Air could make it so that we could not ever use that airline again when booking flights and they said yes.

Meanwhile, we are stuck with the schedule that Lufthansa forced us to use.

[FlyerTalker]

You chose to book through a third party rather than directly with the carrier.  Thus, you were subject to the bulk ticket contract between Celebrity and Lufthansa.  You were NOT buying the same ticket that you would have from LH - you were buying a contract fare ticket with different fare rules and conditions.  Further, the inventory available to Celebrity is NOT the same as the inventory available to the general public.  So those "three seats" you found available may not have been available under the contract.  Don't blame Lufthansa - you chose to buy through Celebrity, you accept that your flight arrangements happen through the Celebrity contract.

 

Not what you want to hear, but that's the reality.

[mchell810]

1 hour ago, Mom2011 said:

We booked our flights with our cruise to arrive a day early to avoid air travel issues, and to sightsee a day in Rome.  We just received an email that the airline has switched us to arriving the day of our cruise.  I called Celebrity Air, and they arranged to switch the flights back to going a day early.  We were to be on the lookout for a confirmation email.  It didn't come, so I called Celebrity Air who told us that Lufthansa had rejected the switch.

I went online to Lufthansa's website and found that there were 3 seats available.  So I called Lufthansa who said that you could only book those online.  I politely told them what I thought of our treatment by them and was met with silence.  The call was not disconnected, they just refused to respond to me.

I will never use Lufthansa again!  I asked if Celebrity Air could make it so that we could not ever use that airline again when booking flights and they said yes.

Meanwhile, we are stuck with the schedule that Lufthansa forced us to use.

 

If you have not yet made final payment you can cancel the flights with Celebrity and book whatever flights you like.  If you have made final payment I would still try to get Celebrity to change the flight to one that arrives a day early even on a different airline.  It can't hurt to ask.

[6rugrats]

I am not sure why you are blaming LH for this.  Do you understand how cruise air works?  The cruise line buys blocks of deeply discounted tickets and then they dole them out to passengers as they book.  Just because you see seats available (and if you are looking at the seat map, that does not indicate reliable availability), they may not be available to Celebrity.  Celebrity is LH's client, not you, so I am actually surprised LH even talked to you. 

I work for an airline and must be honest that when passengers tell me "politely" what they think of their "treatment' by "me" there is really nothing to say.  And usually, this complaining (not saying you because I have no idea what you said) is not polite at all.  They can't help you, only Celebrity can and the agent has absolutely no control over the terms and conditions of your ticket.

LH is not forcing you to do anything.  You are fee to cancel, are you not?  

[Ducky_01]

Interesting thread. I have the opposite problem. I just added flights with Flights by Celebrity and they only offered a same day arrival at 1:35PM, with a ship departure at 5:00PM. This seemed strange to me, but booked anyways on the assumption Celebrity knows what they were doing and wouldn't have offered a flight booking that was too tight a connection. Confirmed with Celebrity that a PNR exists, but suspiciously I don't see flight / airline details or a booking confirmation. Should I be worried?

[FlyerTalker]

1 hour ago, Ducky_01 said:

Should I be worried?

 

Well, it always helps to have cities, dates, times and flight numbers.  Otherwise, GIGO.

[NMTraveller]

So the story of this thread is bypass Cruise Air and book directly with the airlines?

[FlyerTalker]

2 hours ago, NMTraveller said:

So the story of this thread is bypass Cruise Air and book directly with the airlines?

 

The story is to be a knowledgeable consumer.  There are advantages to buying through a cruiseline, but there are also disadvantages.  What one needs is to have a full understanding of the differences between using a third party and buying direct, then process those differences through your own value judgements.  No one can make those judgements for you - for no one has your set of priorities and values.

 

What we can do is to help folks understand some of those differences and how they affect your travel experience.  But ultimately, the choice is up to each individual.

 

Caveat emptor.

[Ducky_01]

Thanks, fully agree. I was suspicious this offer was too good to be true. I'm going to enquire again with Celebrity, and if they can't do anything, book direct. I don't want the hassle of arranging flights at the last minute. Thx for confirming my worries.

FWIW, I'd book with FBC as a third party agent again, but I do think they should bear some responsibility and not even offer flights which in hindsight are so risky (there were no other options appearing on the day, in my search but perhaps they have access to wider inventory?)

[FlyerTalker]

7 hours ago, Ducky_01 said:

Thanks, fully agree. I was suspicious this offer was too good to be true. I'm going to enquire again with Celebrity, and if they can't do anything, book direct. I don't want the hassle of arranging flights at the last minute. Thx for confirming my worries.

FWIW, I'd book with FBC as a third party agent again, but I do think they should bear some responsibility and not even offer flights which in hindsight are so risky (there were no other options appearing on the day, in my search but perhaps they have access to wider inventory?)

 

I guess that means you don't want specific assistance.  Consider it closed.

[megr1125]

OP if you haven't paid for the tickets yet, call Flights by X back and change them.  Or push back with them a bit.

 

I've booked with them a few times and I know what I'm buying.  I choose to save money and afford a business class ticket.  Last summer SAS cancelled my flight about 8 hours before and about 2 hours before my car service was due to arrive.  I'll admit, FBC was not helpful (I'd still be on hold).  I called SAS on one line and FBC on the other.  SAS had already rebooked me on another carrier, nonstop to FCO, in Polaris that departed 15 minutes later.  (The SAS rep said 'oh Mrs, you are all set with one small problem, you leave 15 minutes later but arrive 3 hours earlier.  LOL like that's a problem!)

 

So try again with FBC.

[Ducky_01]

Just wanted to say thank for the feedback @megr1125 - I did as you suggested and called FBC, even they acknowledged that this was a narrow window (although they were unable to explain how and why they even offered it, if they knew there was a chance of missing the departure).  Just now waiting for feedback, hope they can sort something out before airfares get prohibitively expensive.  I'd be quite annoyed if I had to pay more, given there were no other same-day options offered.

[FlyerTalker]

Cruiseline air departments have no more inventory available to them than there is to the general public.  In fact, they often have access to less inventory than what you can buy on your own.

[megr1125]

They'll book legal connections which may not make sense. As FlyerTalker said, the inventory they have access to is not large.

 

But, I'm guessing  that your sailing is this summer and probably has NOT yet hit final payment so you SHOULD be able to change it, IF they still have seats.

 

My sailing's final is in February but I paid it off early and asked for early ticketing.  At one point, my exact flights had disappeared off the FBC site, now they're back, at a higher cost-at least my carriers haven't cancelled my flights. Fingers crossed, good airline karma please and bows to the spirits in the sky that control this stuff!

 

Good luck.  The kind folks on this board who answer the vast majority of the cruise air questions have WAY more knowledge than I do BUT over the years I've leaned (I hope) a lot from them.  I've had good luck with flights in my life and the issue I had last summer could have happened regardless of what kind of ticket I had.   I AM glad that I'd booked early, PLUS a few days ahead on a route that had options and I was glad that SAS fixed it.  (And when my BA flight home had a bird strike, they rebooked me while in flight, albeit to another NYC area airport without asking if it was ok but that's another story, and they did reimburse me for my out of pocket expenses and drove me from JFK to EWR the next day.)  Hopefully I have better luck this time.

[dabear]

As previously stated, booking with a cruise line has advantages (usually lower fares) but also disadvantages, often many when flights change. Not only can rearranged flights may have tight connections, new connections or even overcharges. We experienced that when we booked business class with X to Hong Kong. Subsequently the airline dropped fares by over $800 but X would not reduce our fare. Thus we overpaid. 

Unless the savings are substantial, we prefer booking directly with the airline. We get to choose seats & have no problem communicating with the airline & if fares drop we get a credit or even miles back on reward fees.

Edited January 16, 2023 by dabear

[FlyerTalker]

14 minutes ago, dabear said:

Subsequently the airline dropped fares by over $800 but X would not reduce our fare. Thus we overpaid.

 

There is no direct relationship between the cost of a bulk contract ticket and a published fare ticket.  And trying to tie the two together is fruitless.

 

The cruiseline bought their ticket from airline for a certain amount, and was reselling it at that cost - perhaps with some markup.  Their cost was at a dollar amount set in the contract, NOT what tickets were going for on the open, spot market.

 

If the spot market price of the ticket dropped, that would NOT change the cost to the cruiseline, unless that proviso was included in their contract.  Which is something you most assuredly would not know.

 

So, you are saying "Cruiseline -- you bought the ticket for $X dollars and are selling it at $Y.  But the open market price has dropped below $Y, so I want you to take a loss and give me the ticket for the spot market price".

 

All this is a result of you choosing to purchase through a third party - the cruiseline.  Sometimes you may get a better "deal" financially, sometimes you won't.  But don't go asking a business to deliberately take a loss - would you do that with YOUR business?

 

[Bo1953]

3 hours ago, dabear said:

As previously stated, booking with a cruise line has advantages (usually lower fares) but also disadvantages, often many when flights change. Not only can rearranged flights may have tight connections, new connections or even overcharges. We experienced that when we booked business class with X to Hong Kong. Subsequently the airline dropped fares by over $800 but X would not reduce our fare. Thus we overpaid. 

Unless the savings are substantial, we prefer booking directly with the airline. We get to choose seats & have no problem communicating with the airline & if fares drop we get a credit or even miles back on reward fees.

Did the far drop before or after your final payment???

 

It is 'usually' the norm that after final payment, there is no adjustment in airfares since it is a third party agency booking.

 

bon voyage

[em-sk]

What you may encounter is airlines on their websites may sometimes chose to supress some interline options that are available.  For example a Delta flight making a connection to an America flight.   These exist and a travel agency or a third party website will have access to all of these.  The airlines call center people may also have access to these.  As long as they are ticketed under the same ticket number there is nothing wrong with them in principle.  

 

Usually these more obscure interline flights are expensive.  However if its a cruise line that is working with unpublished rates these may sometimes have a combination of fares that makes it attractive.  

 

 

 

[FlyerTalker]

7 hours ago, em-sk said:

Usually these more obscure interline flights are expensive.  However if its a cruise line that is working with unpublished rates these may sometimes have a combination of fares that makes it attractive. 

 

It's all in the fare rules.  Sometimes contract fares allow for combinations that you can't get with published fares.

 

OTOH, sometimes this results in some weird combinations, because the cruiseline wants to use up those contracted tickets lying on the shelf.  Cross-alliance combos that you would rarely see elsewhere.  Often with requirements for check-ins, mid trip.

[Ducky_01]

On 1/14/2023 at 11:34 PM, Ducky_01 said:

Interesting thread. I have the opposite problem. I just added flights with Flights by Celebrity and they only offered a same day arrival at 1:35PM, with a ship departure at 5:00PM. This seemed strange to me, but booked anyways on the assumption Celebrity knows what they were doing and wouldn't have offered a flight booking that was too tight a connection. Confirmed with Celebrity that a PNR exists, but suspiciously I don't see flight / airline details or a booking confirmation. Should I be worried?

 

Thanks everyone for sharing their experience, that makes me feel a bit better.  So.. I called FBC and they confirmed (1) the flights on offer are coordinated with ship departure and (2) there is sufficient time from airport to port, provided you also book a transfer with them (they hadn't mentioned this, but I planned to anyways).

 

They also provided the Flight Booking reference and flight nos. so I can look this info up with the airline.  A very friendly agent caught an oversight on my booking, where the Booking department had not sent details to the Flight department for allocation.  All fixed now, and I will stick to the itinerary.

 

For those asking, the same-day flights were on promotion ("Fly Direct to Europe from £99") so too good to pass up.  It's also not an international flight.  Just in case, I have tentatively booked an airport hotel, refundable of course, in case FBC changes their mind, they think the connection is too tight, and do a late switcheroo to a flight the day before.  Let's hope not. 

 

 

[FlyerTalker]

13 minutes ago, Ducky_01 said:

For those asking, the same-day flights were on promotion ("Fly Direct to Europe from £99") so too good to pass up.  It's also not an international flight. 

 

Just wondering how "Fly Direct to Europe" from the UK is not an international flight?

 

Perhaps not intercontinental.

[6rugrats]

8 hours ago, FlyerTalker said:

 

Just wondering how "Fly Direct to Europe" from the UK is not an international flight?

 

Perhaps not intercontinental.

OP is traveling from UK to Italy.  That is certainly an international flight, as you pointed out.

[nini]

On 1/14/2023 at 8:23 AM, Mom2011 said:

We booked our flights with our cruise to arrive a day early to avoid air travel issues, and to sightsee a day in Rome.  We just received an email that the airline has switched us to arriving the day of our cruise.  I called Celebrity Air, and they arranged to switch the flights back to going a day early.  We were to be on the lookout for a confirmation email.  It didn't come, so I called Celebrity Air who told us that Lufthansa had rejected the switch.

I went online to Lufthansa's website and found that there were 3 seats available.  So I called Lufthansa who said that you could only book those online.  I politely told them what I thought of our treatment by them and was met with silence.  The call was not disconnected, they just refused to respond to me.

I will never use Lufthansa again!  I asked if Celebrity Air could make it so that we could not ever use that airline again when booking flights and they said yes.

Meanwhile, we are stuck with the schedule that Lufthansa forced us to use.

 

1. Flying in a day ahead to Rome really will not be of much help to "sightsee a day in Rome". Have you already been to Rome? We flew in 3 days a head and hardly scratched the surface. We LOVE Rome! But, now you are flying in the day of.

2. I would be terrified to arrive on cruise day. So many things can happen that

[GeezerCouple]

On 1/17/2023 at 8:42 AM, Ducky_01 said:

 

Thanks everyone for sharing their experience, that makes me feel a bit better.  So.. I called FBC and they confirmed (1) the flights on offer are coordinated with ship departure and (2) there is sufficient time from airport to port, provided you also book a transfer with them (they hadn't mentioned this, but I planned to anyways).

 

They also provided the Flight Booking reference and flight nos. so I can look this info up with the airline.  A very friendly agent caught an oversight on my booking, where the Booking department had not sent details to the Flight department for allocation.  All fixed now, and I will stick to the itinerary.

 

For those asking, the same-day flights were on promotion ("Fly Direct to Europe from £99") so too good to pass up.  It's also not an international flight.  Just in case, I have tentatively booked an airport hotel, refundable of course, in case FBC changes their mind, they think the connection is too tight, and do a late switcheroo to a flight the day before.  Let's hope not. 

 

[emphasis added]

 

About that bolded section: 
"...So.. I called FBC and they confirmed (1) the flights on offer are coordinated with ship departure and (2) there is sufficient time from airport to port..." and you are feeling "a bit better".

 

Neither "FBC" nor anyone else, including the specific airline, can guarantee that there will in fact be "sufficient time from airport to port", no matter what they "confirm".  Just think about it.

 

There could be weather or maintenance problems that delay an initial departure.  (In some cases, that could result in missing a critical connecting flight.)

Or there could be an airport software meltdown... or something throughout the entire USA air control system, ahem... 😱

Or some passenger could be throwing a tantrum because the flight is a bit delayed, thus making it much, much more delayed.

 

Especially when flying TO a cruise, we wouldn't even dream of flying in the same day.  Flying home is totally different ("home" isn't departing without us), but even then, we don't want the stress of tight connections.  And if the departure or arrival port is a new city/area for us, we might specifically schedule several extra days there anyway.  (We often do that before and/or after a cruise if those are new areas or places we'd like to explore more.)

 

As for thoughts that cruiselines "promise" to hold the ship or to get you to the next port... they can't guarantee that, either.

It's *your* trip, and your responsibility to make prudent decisions, and to allow for any "life happens" events...

Especially with air travel (but with *any* travel, too), so many things can cause delays or even cancellations.  And no matter how many guarantees, promises, or assurances you were given, the actual specific performance is not going to be under the control of "whoever said that".  It might not be under the control of anyone at all.

 

Allow some extra time, unless missing the cruise isn't all that much of a disappointment or inconvenience.  "How much" extra time?  There are lots of different opinions about that, and some of those opinions are based upon previous experiences, or knowledge of others' experiences.

 

For us, even the *stress* of worrying whether a flight will be on time just isn't worth it for us.  Travel is stressful enough anyway.

When we were younger, we were less cautious or careful.  We were more than a bit naive, as youth can be (for better or for worse 😉 ).  We were also rather lucky.  And in most cases, the "consequences" weren't going to be very severe anyway.  In many cases, if we "missed something", well, we could just "do it later".

With major trips... perhaps not so easy...

 

GC

[iuki]

On 1/14/2023 at 6:41 AM, FlyerTalker said:

You chose to book through a third party rather than directly with the carrier.  Thus, you were subject to the bulk ticket contract between Celebrity and Lufthansa.  You were NOT buying the same ticket that you would have from LH - you were buying a contract fare ticket with different fare rules and conditions.  Further, the inventory available to Celebrity is NOT the same as the inventory available to the general public.  So those "three seats" you found available may not have been available under the contract.  Don't blame Lufthansa - you chose to buy through Celebrity, you accept that your flight arrangements happen through the Celebrity contract.

 

Not what you want to hear, but that's the reality.

So very true.  For the first time I tried to book flights via Air 2 Sea. It was so frustrating.  I wound up making flight arrangements myself. I will NEVER book with A2S!