MSC plans to become biggest cruise line. Will Carnival and the others prevent this from happening?

[CarnivalShips480]

https://cruiseindustrynews.com/cruise-news/2023/01/msc-goal-to-become-largest/

 

MSC wants to become the biggest cruise line in the world. I think that Carnival, Royal, and Norwegian would try to make this not happen.

 

What do you all think about MSC's goal to become the top?

Edited January 17, 2023 by CarnivalShips480

[LouChamp]

Aloha.  Interesting situation. What sets them apart is that they are a private company so no one to answer to except banks which I am confident they have an excellent relationship with.  I would not be surprised if they try to buy some other cruise lines owned by the big three although they may not want to sell to MSC to save face. The other cruise lines are up to their receding hairlines in debt and there is no feasible way to get out of it even if they sail full capacity for several years.  The cutbacks in service and food quality and quantity is noticeable for long time cruisers but not newbies.  They have serious issues. Probably in the longterm they will be ok but it is also an issue for the shipyards who fund the building until delivery. MSC does not have any of those issues because the cash flow from the container business is a world necessity which most likely helped them survive the past few years. So that is my opinion and curious what my fellow cc’s think. Thank you!

[CruizinSusan70]

MSC is in the best financial situation and they also have the most new ships in their pipeline coming out in the near future, unlike Carnival which has the Jubilee and the two Sphere Class ships of Princess.

MSC is probably the top line sailing over in Europe and they want to cross the pond and expand their presence here.  They have four ships currently in the US and will have the Meraviglia sailing out of Brooklyn and will be building a new terminal in Galveston.  No word yet about their west coast plans, but it would make sense to concentrate on other geographic areas of the country first to expand their footprint.  

Their product has a very European flair to it and because of this many who cruise on them after starting out with the US based main stream lines either love them or hate them.  They do have great price points and there is a niche for them to expand their presence.  They need to obtain first time cruisers as well as seasoned cruisers from other lines that are disillusioned by what their current line of choice is currently offering.

In general, none of the big three are going to change their marketing strategies based upon what number four is doing.  It's an ambitious goal that they have and with them being in the best financial situation of the top four, they could eventually bypass NCL to climb into #3.

Edited January 17, 2023 by CruizinSusan70

[klfrodo]

So, are you asking if Carnival, Royal, and Norwegian would all get together to collude and conspire to ensure MSC doesn't become the worlds largest cruise line company?

[EngIceDave]

These major corporations have long term plans, 5 year, 10 year and more.

 

What the competition does makes no difference because that's within the plans. They all know what the other's doing and planning. 

 

I don't think they'll change a thing

[evandbob]

MSC will probably become even larger in the Mediterranean area, diluting Carnival's share there.

 

They are attempting inroads into Caribbean market with well designed new ships and loyalty matching, but fare price may be the most significant factor in market share. Carnival can maintain its superiority in the Carib.

[1kaper]

26 minutes ago, EngIceDave said:

These major corporations have long term plans, 5 year, 10 year and more.

 

What the competition does makes no difference because that's within the plans. They all know what the other's doing and planning. 

 

I don't think they'll change a thing

 

I mean, there are already great concerns if Carnival will survive period. I think they’d be more worried about getting through this than trying to stop MSC. 
 

i will say, MSC will hurt them. Their prices are pretty comparable to Carnival. Particularly if you are including drink packages. 
I like MSC just a little bit more but that my own opinion. 

[CruizinSusan70]

10 minutes ago, evandbob said:

Carnival can maintain its superiority in the Carib.

More than likely true, but MSC could take some of it's older ships and place them in the secondary cruise markets that Carnival monopolizes such as Mobile, Charleston, & Norfolk or with limited competitors such as Tampa & Baltimore in order to have a price war. 

[EngIceDave]

Without seeing their business plan, I wonder how much of it is sending Euros here to sail, as an MSC travel package.

 

If a large percentage, might not dent CCL too much

[CarnivalShips480]

3 hours ago, klfrodo said:

So, are you asking if Carnival, Royal, and Norwegian would all get together to collude and conspire to ensure MSC doesn't become the worlds largest cruise line company?

No, definitely not. That wouldn't happen. It was a leading question, to see what people think with MSC's order book full and Carnival's not. I guess I should have said this directly, but something I was implying is that a Costa dissolvance into Carnival might be more likely. I know I have talked about that with other members in the past.

[CarnivalShips480]

I don't think this would bump Carnival from its cruising places

[notscb]

4 hours ago, CarnivalShips480 said:

I think that Carnival, Royal, and Norwegian would try to make this not happen.

 

I think you're right that these other more established cruise giants wouldn't want this to happen. Unfortunately, as others have pointed out, MSC is flush with cash from their cargo operations and don't rely on IPO's or publicly traded funding sources to operate, giving them a massive competitive advantage over Carnival Corp, RCL and Norwegian.

 

I think they're taking the "uber" approach and trying to undercut their competition by offering low all-inclusive fares (by which i mean drinks and wifi included). I priced out a 3 day on Carnival for next weekend and found that they were earily $300 more than MSC was for what was essentially the same itinerary, and Carnival didn't include drinks or basic wifi.

 

Once MSC has their base of customers and brand recognition, they'll slowly decrease the subsidy from their cargo operation to the passenger operation and increase prices (thus, the uber model- get trust by any means- even if it means years and years of losses- then adjust accordingly once you have a loyal base).

[Heartgrove]

We are 4* on HAL but I am cruising this Sunday for the first time on Carnival aboard the Carnival Legend. My wife actually sailed on the Carnival Fantasy in 1995 but she barely remembers the cruise. Her and I sailed on the MSC Splendida in the Mediterranean last year and really enjoyed it. Our attraction to sailing on the Legend is that we do not need to fly. It is only about a 3-1/2 hour drive for us to Baltimore. That said, we are also doing one of the Greenland cruises as well.

 

I have to admit that we have a cruise booked on MSC in Northern Europe (British Isles) for this September 2023. Price was the major factor for a similar cruise compared to other lines, even HAL. For three of us, the cruise is less than 1/2 compared to other lines. In 2024 we plan on doing a Norway cruise on MSC a day after a 14-day HAL cruise.

 

From what I have read here on CC though it almost seems that the US arm of MSC is almost a different company. Perhaps it is the trying to cater to the US clientele(?). For us we are happy with the European business model but may try a cruise from Miami/Port Canaveral someday this year or next.

 

With regards to the possible expansion of MSC on the East Coast, bridges leading to the ports may be the limiting factor for their fleet. For example, the MSC Magnifica which is well suited for a smaller market such as Charleston/Norfolk/Baltimore/Tampa size-wise plus it has a Magridome over one of the pools for cooler weather sailing. The problem is it's air draft is too high for the bridges into Charleston/Baltimore/Tampa. It is currently scheduled to begin sailing from Miami late this year. That will be five ships here is the US. I am not sure if their older class of cruise ships could manage but they seem to keep all four busy sailing in the Mediterranean. With still more new ships being built for them, they could shuffle their fleet. MSC's business plan is to "run the wheels" off their ships than to sell them off to a lesser cruise line as potential competition. 

[gkbiiii]

The Posea & others might work.

[glrounds]

They ALL dream about overtaking Carnival; then reality hits them.

[sfaaa]

I welcome MSC to aggressively pursue its expansion plan in N America. More competition can only mean more deals for cruisers. 

[Honolulu Blue]

17 hours ago, CarnivalShips480 said:

https://cruiseindustrynews.com/cruise-news/2023/01/msc-goal-to-become-largest/

 

MSC wants to become the biggest cruise line in the world. I think that Carnival, Royal, and Norwegian would try to make this not happen.

 

What do you all think about MSC's goal to become the top?

When I first saw that article, I thought about the villains in those superhero/secret agent movies.  They all want WORLD DOMINATION!  Usually followed by an evil laugh. 😈

 

I don't think MSC is evil, BTW.  But they've got a ways to go to dominate the North American market.  They currently have five big assets - 1) low prices, 2) an owner with deep pockets, 3) pretty ships, 4) their willingness to status match, and 5) the Yacht Club.  That's not nothing, but if they want to catch Carnival or Royal, they really need about 10 more big ships homeported in NA - including more on the East Coast, more in the Gulf, and they need to establish a foothold in California and Alaska.  They're at least 10 years away, IMHO, unless they whip out the checkbook and buy up an established cruise line or two.

 

The thing about the megalomaniacs in the movies is that they almost always end up defeated before they reach their goals.  We'll see what happens to MSC.  It should be interesting to watch.

[Joebucks]

If it wasn't for the shutdown, I don't believe they would ever had have a chance. Their product is going to have a tough time winning especially in the American market. However, since the other lines were unfairly shut down and the shipping container business wasn't, who knows what happens next. Maybe they end up purchasing another company?

[shipgeeks]

Armonia would fit in Baltimore.

[EngIceDave]

4 hours ago, sfaaa said:

I welcome MSC to aggressively pursue its expansion plan in N America. More competition can only mean more deals for cruisers. 

Downside is more and more people jammed onto these tiny islands, basically trampling them to death.

Longer lines for everything and less and less space on the beaches.

[EngIceDave]

30 minutes ago, shipgeeks said:

Armonia would fit in Baltimore.

We took her on a Havana cruise in 2019. For a small ship, she doesn't really feel it. Very well designed.

[asalligo]

MSC could do this if they seriously review their handling of people onboard ships and adopt the same procedures that other cruise lines are already using to manage 5000 people on a ship. After cruising with them, I have no worries that they are going to put Carnival in jeopardy any time soon. Thier ship was beautiful but felt like a week on a cattle car being fed from a bucket. 

[quattrohead]

2 hours ago, EngIceDave said:

We took her on a Havana cruise in 2019. For a small ship, she doesn't really feel it. Very well designed.

Best cruise we have ever been on. Gutted when her return to the USA was cancelled.

Even worse was them not telling us until it was blatantly obvious, even Dr Spock could not have teleported her over in time lol

[perakcruiser]

38 minutes ago, quattrohead said:

Best cruise we have ever been on. 

 

The out of Havana cruise with the Armonia was really hard to beat. Just perfect.

[CruizinSusan70]

9 hours ago, glrounds said:

They ALL dream about overtaking Carnival; then reality hits them.

Step away and quit drinking the Kool aid. MSC will not pass Carnival Corporation mainly because of the diversification and number of companies involved, but they should make inroads versus the Carnival division of the corporation.