Single surcharge…help me understand

[Denversail]

On 2/3/2023 at 4:51 PM, NelleS said:

I haven’t been able to cruise since the beginning of the pandemic, but I am SO looking forward to going! Anyway, I always book a cabin as a single.  I’ve never been on a ship that has single cabins, but I’d probably still want a balcony cabin.

 

That said, I don’t understand being charged an additional 50% or 100% as a single when so many cruise lines offer “second guest cruises free”.  Makes no sense to me that as a single, I pay more than a “BOGO” cabin!

 

Can you help me understand?

Drop a little money in the casino. If you can get some free cruise offers they don’t care if you book solo.

[cruisemom42]

51 minutes ago, Denversail said:

Drop a little money in the casino. If you can get some free cruise offers they don’t care if you book solo.

 

Exactly.  

 

Most mass market cruise lines charge solo supplements, but clearly there are fluid rules that are applied. Sometimes solos who gamble get free cruises. Sometimes cruise lines drop their solo supplement to nothing on cruises that are not selling well -- so obviously solos are not a "net negative".  Better than an empty cabin, which is what I said at the start.

 

[ldubs]

16 hours ago, Joebucks said:

 

Would you also agree to being charged double for your drinks, specialty dining, and excursions? The fare alone doesn't drive the revenue that they want. They are hoping people purchase extras too. Something tells me a solo cruiser also isn't going to spend as much.

 

The point I saw was in an all inclusiive fare, those things would be included in the fare and should covered by the single supplement.   The extras are not purchased because they are included.     

[ilikeanswers]

3 hours ago, navybankerteacher said:

Those second and third passengers spend money on board.  You may not believe it, but the cruise lines' bean counters, who are better-informed, full-time money guys seem to, --- and, even though I do not like it, I have to accept the likely fact that the cruise lines know what they are doing (maximizing earnings), and are more interested in that than in being "fair" to single cruisers.

 

Like it or not:   you are playing in their back yard, so you play by their rules.

 

But at least when third and fourth passengers spend on board they are getting services and products in return. I pay a single supplement to supposedly replicate the earnings of the on board spending of an average cruiser and I don't get extra services or products. It is kind of similar to all inclusive single supplement, you pay this extra money but don't get extra tours, meals or whatever else there is. Normally if you pay for something and don't recieve it the transaction would be considered fraud, but call it "single supplement" and suddenly it is rebranded as compensation😂. 

[Toofarfromthesea]

11 hours ago, cruisemom42 said:

 

And what about all the instances where there is a large discount off the second passenger's fare? Or when the third/fourth passenger "sail free"?

 

As to the former, it is generally a marketing ploy and the fare for 2 with the discount, is not much different than the "regular" fare for 2.

 

As for the latter, the 3rd and 4th passengers "sailing free" are not given any extra real estate.  There is almost zero marginal cost to the cruiseline for #3 and #4, and the cruiseline may actually make money on them in the form of on-board spend.  Particularly if everyone in the cabin has to have a beverage package if one person has it.

[Toofarfromthesea]

1 hour ago, ilikeanswers said:

 

But at least when third and fourth passengers spend on board they are getting services and products in return. I pay a single supplement to supposedly replicate the earnings of the on board spending of an average cruiser and I don't get extra services or products. It is kind of similar to all inclusive single supplement, you pay this extra money but don't get extra tours, meals or whatever else there is. Normally if you pay for something and don't recieve it the transaction would be considered fraud, but call it "single supplement" and suddenly it is rebranded as compensation😂. 

 

No, you don't "pay a single supplement to supposedly replicate the earnings of the on board spending of an average cruiser" you pay the single supplement because you are getting 2 people's worth of real estate.  Those 3rd and 4th passengers aren't getting any real estate, they are just cramping the 1st and 2nd passengers' space.

 

The "extra services or products" you get for the single supplement is twice as much room as each individual in a comparable double occupancy cabin.

 

Basically the pricing is really per cabin pricing even when it is expressed as per person pricing.

Edited February 10, 2023 by Toofarfromthesea

[ilikeanswers]

4 hours ago, Toofarfromthesea said:

 

No, you don't "pay a single supplement to supposedly replicate the earnings of the on board spending of an average cruiser" you pay the single supplement because you are getting 2 people's worth of real estate.  Those 3rd and 4th passengers aren't getting any real estate, they are just cramping the 1st and 2nd passengers' space.

 

The "extra services or products" you get for the single supplement is twice as much room as each individual in a comparable double occupancy cabin.

 

Basically the pricing is really per cabin pricing even when it is expressed as per person pricing.

 

Everyone in this thread says it is to compensate for onboard spending so I am following that train of thought. 

 

However that seems like a be a bit of an odd way to price things. Why express a per room price as per person? AI resorts don't do that and it doesn't dissuade people from booking. Surely couples can figure out how to split costs amongst themselves.

[cruisemom42]

18 minutes ago, ilikeanswers said:

Why express a per room price as per person? AI resorts don't do that and it doesn't dissuade people from booking. Surely couples can figure out how to split costs amongst themselves.

 

That method of pricing is a hangover from the old days when ships were for transportation and people booked a "passage". You might, in a lower cabin class, book a single berth in a larger cabin that might hold 6-8 berths altogether.

 

I'm sure cruise ships hang on to this per person pricing as a way to continue to make their price appear lower.

 

Once upon a time (like when I started cruising), solos could elect to share a room with another passenger and not pay the solo supplement. Few cruisers would choose to avail themselves of this option now....

Edited February 10, 2023 by cruisemom42

[navybankerteacher]

1 hour ago, cruisemom42 said:

…

 

Once upon a time (like when I started cruising), solos could elect to share a room with another passenger and not pay the solo supplement. Few cruisers would choose to avail themselves of this option now....

I recall that from a few years back.  
 

An interesting development:  why do you think matching singles is no longer done?  

[Honolulu Blue]

1 hour ago, cruisemom42 said:

Once upon a time (like when I started cruising), solos could elect to share a room with another passenger and not pay the solo supplement. Few cruisers would choose to avail themselves of this option now....

 

9 minutes ago, navybankerteacher said:

I recall that from a few years back.  
 

An interesting development:  why do you think matching singles is no longer done?  

I know HAL used to do it several years ago, but it seems to have fallen out of fashion with them.  An agency that I'm not allowed to name has available matching for its singles cruises.  And I've seen it here and there mostly through informal sources.

 

Why is it less popular than it used to be?  I think @cruisemom42hinted at it in the last sentence of her post (which I've highlighted above) - most solo cruisers these days would rather grab a single cabin or pay the single tax than deal with the potential awkwardness of a roomie on their vacation.

[Hlitner]

Many years ago, there was a private company (either called Singleworld or Gramercy Singleworld) who served as a clearing house for seniors wanting "roommates" for cruises and some land tours.  That company also provided hosts for some of their larger group cruises/tours.  Apparently that all ended with a change of ownership back in the 90s.  

 

Perhaps this is an idea just waiting for some new entrepreneur to refine/launch.   Consider that many folks now see online dating and match making as part of modern society.  Combine that with travel, group discounts, etc. and there might be a market.

 

Hank

[navybankerteacher]

24 minutes ago, Honolulu Blue said:

 

…

 

Why is it less popular than it used to be?  I think @cruisemom42hinted at it in the last sentence of her post (which I've highlighted above) - most solo cruisers these days would rather grab a single cabin or pay the single tax than deal with the potential awkwardness of a roomie on their vacation.

Are solo cruisers wealthier these days - or has the evolving demographic of cruisers increased the risk of getting an incompatible roomie?

[cruisemom42]

23 minutes ago, navybankerteacher said:

Are solo cruisers wealthier these days - or has the evolving demographic of cruisers increased the risk of getting an incompatible roomie?

 

It's only my opinion, but I think there are two trends that more or less have put an end to the era of sharing a cabin:

 

1.  People are more particular now about personal space and about sharing that space. Houses are larger; families are smaller. Siblings rarely grow up having to share a room. We are all used to much more elbow room and to having everything "our way" from the temperature of our environment to noise levels to closet space.

 

2.  Cruise lines probably are wary of offering shared cabins due to the potential for complaints and unhappiness that require a solution (e.g., finding the dissatisfied person a separate cabin, offering OBC, reimbursing cost of cruise). And given how litigious people have become, one imagines that any off-the-cuff comment or less than thoughtful action from a stranger sharing a room could result in litigation (and bad publicity for the line).  

 

A contributing factor might be the lower cost of taking a cruise over time. We've lived in an era (over the past 20 years or so) where cruise prices have decreased compared with historic prices, making it cheaper for EVERYONE to cruise, not just solos.  However, it remains to be seen whether that trend will continue post-COVID.  Many mass-market lines have cut about as much as they can cut from the cruise experience short of asking passengers to man the oars or bring their own food....

 

 

 

[Honolulu Blue]

23 minutes ago, navybankerteacher said:

Are solo cruisers wealthier these days - or has the evolving demographic of cruisers increased the risk of getting an incompatible roomie?

I don't think solo cruisers have become wealthier as a group, but the fact that cruise fares on an inflation adjusted basis have gone down more or less continuously since the 1970s makes them more able to cruise more often or in more luxury when they do choose to cruise.

 

As for demographics... I'm going to choose my words carefully in order to save our mods some stress.  I think the ranks of cruisers has become a lot more diverse in many ways.  I think when most people choose to cruise with someone, they're looking for someone that thinks like them, acts like them, likes the same things as they do, and/or looks like them.  That's less likely these days and that can cause problems in close quarters.

[Toofarfromthesea]

5 hours ago, ilikeanswers said:

 

Everyone in this thread says it is to compensate for onboard spending so I am following that train of thought. 

 

 

But the obvious facts say otherwise.  If you're paying $2,000 for a room that they could get $4,000 for as a double occupancy, on board spend is not going to be a factor.  They charge the single supplement to make up the $2,000 difference in fare, not the marginal on-board spend difference.

Edited February 10, 2023 by Toofarfromthesea

[Toofarfromthesea]

3 hours ago, navybankerteacher said:

I recall that from a few years back.  
 

An interesting development:  why do you think matching singles is no longer done?  

 

My guess is that the reason is two-fold.  First, there is a higher percentage of creeps in the population than previously.  Second, matching entities face significant liability if they fail to screen out a creep and they do something bad to their roommate.

[Elaine5715]

3 hours ago, Honolulu Blue said:

 

I know HAL used to do it several years ago, but it seems to have fallen out of fashion with them.  An agency that I'm not allowed to name has available matching for its singles cruises.  And I've seen it here and there mostly through informal sources.

 

Why is it less popular than it used to be?  I think @cruisemom42hinted at it in the last sentence of her post (which I've highlighted above) - most solo cruisers these days would rather grab a single cabin or pay the single tax than deal with the potential awkwardness of a roomie on their vacation.

As a introvert, I was dragged onto my first cruise as a family  vacation.  I quickly found out that cruising is the perfect vacation since I can choose my level of interaction and retreat to my private sanctuary as desired.  Paying extra for that peace is worth it.  

[ilikeanswers]

7 hours ago, cruisemom42 said:

 Many mass-market lines have cut about as much as they can cut from the cruise experience short of asking passengers to man the oars or bring their own food....

 

Sometimes I wouldn't mind the option to bring my own food 😂. 

[ilikeanswers]

5 hours ago, Toofarfromthesea said:

 

But the obvious facts say otherwise.  If you're paying $2,000 for a room that they could get $4,000 for as a double occupancy, on board spend is not going to be a factor.  They charge the single supplement to make up the $2,000 difference in fare, not the marginal on-board spend difference.

 

Everyone else has said the opposite is true, the on board spending is the real money. Perhaps the conflicting information is an indication cruise pricing isn't that transparent? Maybe we're all being scammed by big cruise and we just don't know it😜. 

[CPT Trips]

13 hours ago, cruisemom42 said:

2.  Cruise lines probably are wary of offering shared cabins due to the potential for complaints and unhappiness that require a solution (e.g., finding the dissatisfied person a separate cabin, offering OBC, reimbursing cost of cruise). And given how litigious people have become, one imagines that any off-the-cuff comment or less than thoughtful action from a stranger sharing a room could result in litigation (and bad publicity for the line).  

 

And also, limited brig space. 

[Toofarfromthesea]

On 2/10/2023 at 5:44 AM, ilikeanswers said:

 

Everyone in this thread says it is to compensate for onboard spending so I am following that train of thought. 

 

However that seems like a be a bit of an odd way to price things. Why express a per room price as per person? AI resorts don't do that and it doesn't dissuade people from booking. Surely couples can figure out how to split costs amongst themselves.

 

Think for yourself, don't follow a train.  

[ilikeanswers]

6 hours ago, Toofarfromthesea said:

Think for yourself, don't follow a train.  

 

I didn't know asking questions was following a train 😂. I am glad you feel confident in your theory but for me I see just as many holes in it as the majority's theory. For me to be as confident I need more information and then maybe I too will be able to post authoritatively on this topic😜. 

[gerryuk]