Exchange $ or Credit Card

[markeb]

1 hour ago, Bob++ said:

We went to a local pub for lunch last weekend. They don't offer menus (though they were available on request) they have a QR code on the table. That put a menu on my smartphone and we chose our meals and paid for them with not a word to anyone. The food (mediocre) arrived fairly quickly, and after we finished we got up and left.

 

While the tech worked as it should, the whole encounter made me think of some science fictional meal where the food is dispensed from a slot and no on has to speak to anyone else. Soulless and sterile.

Efficient, but not a pub experience I’d want. The slightly messy inefficiency is part of the charm!

[Simon-t]

On 2/23/2023 at 7:51 AM, Globaliser said:

 

In the UK, it's harder to find a place that won't accept a card than a place that won't accept cash. Many of us routinely don't carry cash any more.

 

In London, even vans and market stalls will almost universally accept cards. Even buskers (street musicians) often have contactless card terminals because so many people don't carry cash!

This is definitely true. Since the pandemic you are more likely to find places not accepting cash than you are not accepting cards. I genuinely cannot remember the last time I used cash in the UK. 

[cruznoob57]

On 2/23/2023 at 8:25 AM, gnome12 said:

 

Actually, if you have a PIN, you really need to follow them. Americans are used to hitting enter until the slip comes up to be signed. However, if your card has a PIN it needs to be entered before that point or your transaction is rejected. It took me a few instances of having my transaction rejected to twig to this issue; now I tell them to slow down and give me the terminal to enter the PIN. (This was, I admit, pre-Covid and perhaps it has changed, but I doubt it.)

We just talked to our bank and they said that for security purposes, always enter your PIN instead of using tap so that your bank knows it is you using the card.

[Globaliser]

31 minutes ago, cruznoob57 said:

We just talked to our bank and they said that for security purposes, always enter your PIN instead of using tap so that your bank knows it is you using the card.

 

That's over-cautious, judging by banks' experience in the UK.

 

When contactless came in, the transaction limit was £30. Any transaction over that limit had to be verified by PIN. The fear was that if higher value transactions could simply be tapped, that would be exploited by a thief who'd stolen a card.

 

These fears were exaggerated. UK banks' actual experience with fraud (or the low level of it) meant that the transaction limit has been raised to the current level of £100. The benefits of a higher transaction limit clearly outweigh any extra risk from fraud, and there is plenty of other security in place even if you make a contactless transaction.

 

I believe that there are other countries where the contactless limit is even higher than £100. Certainly there is no need to PIN every transaction when contactless is perfectly good - both for the cardholder and for the bank.

[CruiserBruce]

44 minutes ago, cruznoob57 said:

We just talked to our bank and they said that for security purposes, always enter your PIN instead of using tap so that your bank knows it is you using the card.

Hmmm...just got a tap capable card, on vacation right now, using it widely, and no mention of this. This card doesn't even have a PIN. Agree...seems overly cautious. 

 

This might be a Canadian bank issue.

[fruitmachine]

19 minutes ago, CruiserBruce said:

Hmmm...just got a tap capable card, on vacation right now, using it widely, and no mention of this. This card doesn't even have a PIN. Agree...seems overly cautious. 

 

This might be a Canadian bank issue.

Your card will have a PIN.

 

The original EMV (Europay, Mastercard, & Visa) design was that the card could be used offline - the chip in it knows the last few transactions that it has been used for.  This allowed it to refuse contactless and require a pin every x transactions or value with (I think) the limit being set by the risk your bank was prepared to take.

 

More recently, most transactions (all?) are online with your bank's central systems giving a real-time authorisation, even for small amounts.  This lets them use more sophisticated fraud detection software, looking for unusual behaviour (for example something as simple as being used in a new geographic area) and requiring the insertion of the card and use of a PIN.

[CruiserBruce]

58 minutes ago, fruitmachine said:

Your card will have a PIN.

 

The original EMV (Europay, Mastercard, & Visa) design was that the card could be used offline - the chip in it knows the last few transactions that it has been used for.  This allowed it to refuse contactless and require a pin every x transactions or value with (I think) the limit being set by the risk your bank was prepared to take.

 

More recently, most transactions (all?) are online with your bank's central systems giving a real-time authorisation, even for small amounts.  This lets them use more sophisticated fraud detection software, looking for unusual behaviour (for example something as simple as being used in a new geographic area) and requiring the insertion of the card and use of a PIN.

I have had this card for 15 years...just got it renewed and upgraded with tap capability.  Americans have always been PIN resistant,  and the agreement  across the Visa system is Americans have not been required to get PINs. This issue has been around for at least 20 years.

[fruitmachine]

1 hour ago, CruiserBruce said:

I have had this card for 15 years...just got it renewed and upgraded with tap capability.  Americans have always been PIN resistant,  and the agreement  across the Visa system is Americans have not been required to get PINs. This issue has been around for at least 20 years.

I suspect the card does have a PIN (though you may not know it) but, having now read a bit about this feature, it also has "PIN Entry Bypass" set by the issuer, which allows signature verification (rather than PIN verification) to continue.

[Post Captain]

12 minutes ago, fruitmachine said:

I suspect the card does have a PIN (though you may not know it) but, having now read a bit about this feature, it also has "PIN Entry Bypass" set by the issuer, which allows signature verification (rather than PIN verification) to continue.

 

Just for clarification:  Credit cards issued by major U,S, banks do not have PINs, for the simple reason that they are not chip-and-PIN cards.  PINs are not required to use American-issued credit cards either in the U.S. or the U.K.  As you mention, however, when used in the U.K., the card will automatically default to signature verification, without prompting the user to enter a PIN.  The user doesn't have to tell the vendor that it is not a PIN card.  I have never had an issue using my American non-PIN Chase or Capital One cards in the U.K.

 

A PIN is necessary if the user wishes to withdraw money from an ATM using a credit card.  However, you should never use a credit card to make a cash withdrawal (which would be considered a cash advance), unless you want to be hit with massive interest charges.  Debit cards issued by U.S. banks, of course, do have PINs.

 

(As an aside for our British cousins:  Using American credit cards in the U.S. these days rarely requires the user's signature.  I seem to recall that I signed (on the screen) when making a purchase at Home Depot a few months ago; on the other hand, a signature is not required when using a credit card at either of the supermarkets where we regularly shop.  Don't ask me why; that's just the way it is.  By the way, in many stores, for one reason or another "contactless" is not available; we still insert the card into the card reader, and that's it--in most cases, no signature needed.  Not a problem.  But if you look at the credit card section of the website of any major U.S, bank, you will see the bank boasting that their cards have "contactless chip technology", as if this is something new and exciting!😁)

 

 

 

[Host Bonjour]

22 hours ago, Post Captain said:

Using American credit cards in the U.S. these days rarely requires the user's signature. 

 

Almost always going to get one in a restaurant (including a printed receipt to sign), even with take-away, because.... there's space for the tip. Welcome to America. 

 

Many restaurants, especially fast casual or cafe type places here use the newer technology like Square or something similar with proprietary digital terminals for check out that also include the signature line and options for tip %. Yes, absolutely cannot stand this but.... we have threads on various Port boards where tip culture questions are discussed, if anyone is interested. This is not the place 😂

 

So, I'd say that a visitor would still expect, especially if there are food/hospitality purchases, expect to be still signing in these instances. Other merchants might not have upgraded their equipment, which usually is a risk to them and can cost money/fees, but so it goes.

 

I remember being in total envy upon my first visits overseas, after discovering the ease with which payments were made by popping the card into a wireless, handheld device tableside to pay the tab.  And here we are at last... it is what it is.

 

Good to do the financial set up/planning before you go: call to alert banks (if suggested on their statements/website), try the app, look into using virtual cards if available, know the difference between using debit/credit at ATMs, and the different fees involved in overseas transactions: which, if any apply with your bank? Sounds like a lot, but if you've done the prep work it goes rather smoothly once your underway. 

[wowzz]

On 3/9/2023 at 11:40 PM, Post Captain said:

As you mention, however, when used in the U.K., the card will automatically default to signature verification, without prompting the user to enter a PIN.  The user doesn't have to tell the vendor that it is not a PIN card.  I have never had an issue using my American non-PIN Chase or Capital One cards in the U.K.

What do you do when the vendor has a payment device that does not issue a paper receipt,  and therefore there is no signature option? 

[pink845]

We hate using our Cdn Credit card in foreign countries and very rarely do.  We have an USD credit card which we do use exclusively in the US.  But again, I can think of so many times when we have been alerted by our credit card company or companies of fraud on our cards.  We just seem to have bad luck.   We bring cash and use it for almost all our purchases.  We used to bring American Express Travellers Cheques or Visa Traveller cheques.  We do bring a several different branded cards with us to Europe, Asia, Japan  with us for emergency purposes but when we arrive to pay for our hotels, we simply plunk down our cash and most hotels are happy to accept it.  Of course, we demand a receipt for cash given and will settle up in cash on check out. Yes, they ask for a credit card, but we expressly warn them not to charge anything to it and we settle in cash.   I do not use any type of contactless pay on my phone.  In fact, I leave my phone on airplane mode the whole time and only use my cell for photos. 

 

 My husband on the other hand has his cell with him at all times as he is "always on call" even on holidays for consultations and even he does not have contactless pay on his phone.  For us, cash is king and if someone does not want the cash, well, they do not get our business which is sad for them.  

[wowzz]

9 hours ago, pink845 said:

We hate using our Cdn Credit card in foreign countries and very rarely do.  We have an USD credit card which we do use exclusively in the US.  But again, I can think of so many times when we have been alerted by our credit card company or companies of fraud on our cards.  We just seem to have bad luck.   We bring cash and use it for almost all our purchases.  We used to bring American Express Travellers Cheques or Visa Traveller cheques.  We do bring a several different branded cards with us to Europe, Asia, Japan  with us for emergency purposes but when we arrive to pay for our hotels, we simply plunk down our cash and most hotels are happy to accept it.  Of course, we demand a receipt for cash given and will settle up in cash on check out. Yes, they ask for a credit card, but we expressly warn them not to charge anything to it and we settle in cash.   I do not use any type of contactless pay on my phone.  In fact, I leave my phone on airplane mode the whole time and only use my cell for photos. 

 

 My husband on the other hand has his cell with him at all times as he is "always on call" even on holidays for consultations and even he does not have contactless pay on his phone.  For us, cash is king and if someone does not want the cash, well, they do not get our business which is sad for them.  

So you carry thousands of dollars/euros/ pounds around with you ? I am truly astounded.. 

[Globaliser]

13 hours ago, pink845 said:

For us, cash is king and if someone does not want the cash, well, they do not get our business which is sad for them.  

 

Then you will find your horizons becoming progressively more limited as cash is accepted in fewer and fewer places.

 

If your "bad luck" experiences really involved times when you travelled with travellers cheques, then it's been a long time. The world has moved on since then - travellers cheques are almost unusable now - and those experiences may bear little relevance to what anyone should do now.

 

You are so much more at risk from carrying large amounts of cash than from using credit cards - not least because cash is usually uninsurable, but many credit card companies will basically protect you from any loss through credit card fraud.

[pink845]

So you carry thousands of dollars/euros/ pounds around with you ? I am truly astounded.. 

 

That is a good one,  Wowzz.  Nooooo we do not carry thousands of dollars of euros or British Pounds with us.  Cruise is prepaid, all other cruise expenses, shore excursion are also prepaid as well or are automatically charged in USD to our USD Credit card onboard the ship.  Hotels have safes. We use them. Cruise ships have safes. We use them. We only need small amounts of cash to pay for incidentals like subway and train tickets and the odd souvenir.  We use CHIP and PIN on our credit cards. I do not TAP anywhere. Even here in Canada on a good day, it is hard enough contacting our credit card for regular issues.  Having to worry about a potential lost credit card overseas while hip hopping all over the British Isles, not part of my idea of fun.  So, hence, the reason for small amounts of cash with us each day in the currency of the location.   Have travelled extensively from Australia to Europe, to South America, to Japan, China, Hongkong, Egypt, just to name a few locales, and never used TAP ever or a credit card to purchase anything so I will attempt same for British Isles cruise.  I will have a credit card with me secured on my person hidden under many layers of clothing (ha ha) that carries a small $500 CDN limit in the event that there is no other way to pay for something that is essential at any point in time. I have fared pretty good so far in all my travels doing it this way.

[Globaliser]

9 hours ago, pink845 said:

We use CHIP and PIN on our credit cards. I do not TAP anywhere. Even here in Canada on a good day, it is hard enough contacting our credit card for regular issues.  Having to worry about a potential lost credit card overseas while hip hopping all over the British Isles, not part of my idea of fun.

 

...

 

Have travelled extensively from Australia to Europe, to South America, to Japan, China, Hongkong, Egypt, just to name a few locales, and never used TAP ever or a credit card to purchase anything so I will attempt same for British Isles cruise.  I will have a credit card with me secured on my person hidden under many layers of clothing (ha ha) that carries a small $500 CDN limit in the event that there is no other way to pay for something that is essential at any point in time. I have fared pretty good so far in all my travels doing it this way.

 

There's no difference in risk to you between using a PIN compared to simply tapping where contactless is available.

 

And you're doing a British Isles cruise, not going to some dangerous foreign location. You know the saying about "when in Rome, do as the Romans do"? Here, that means using contactless for everything. It's safer than cash.

[wowzz]

5 hours ago, Globaliser said:

Here, that means using contactless for everything. It's safer than cash.

Indeed, and in some cases, like public transport, cash is not an option. No card, no travel !

[Joanne G.]

Like pink845, I used to feel more comfortable with a certain amount of local currency on vacation.  On my first post-covid overseas vacations last year to London and Ireland, I took along several hundred £'s and €'s.  I soon realized most merchants preferred or actually required tap-and-go credit cards.  I had to change with the times.  I was able to use up some currency towards my hotel bills and for cab rides (sadly missing out on rewards points).  

 

For my upcoming European cruises, I will have only a tiny amount of local currency, so that I can obtain coins if I need them for a pay public toilet.  I didn't see one of those that accepts cards. 😲    And maybe for tipping tour guides, too.

 

I have a land vacation in Paris this spring.  Can anyone confirm that I will find Paris as cashless as London, Dublin, and Galway?  Thanks.

 

 

Edited March 23, 2023 by Joanne G.

[kevey]

18 hours ago, Joanne G. said:

Like pink845, I used to feel more comfortable with a certain amount of local currency on vacation.  On my first post-covid overseas vacations last year to London and Ireland, I took along several hundred £'s and €'s.  I soon realized most merchants preferred or actually required tap-and-go credit cards.  I had to change with the times.  I was able to use up some currency towards my hotel bills and for cab rides (sadly missing out on rewards points).  

 

For my upcoming European cruises, I will have only a tiny amount of local currency, so that I can obtain coins if I need them for a pay public toilet.  I didn't see one of those that accepts cards. 😲    And maybe for tipping tour guides, too.

 

I have a land vacation in Paris this spring.  Can anyone confirm that I will find Paris as cashless as London, Dublin, and Galway?  Thanks.

 

 

Just to clarify that although there are certainly many restaurants that do not accept cash (although the staff often prefer cash for tips we have often noted……..) London is by no means cashless. At least 90 per cent of all restaurants/cafes/shops and tourist attractions still readily accept cash. 

[EllieinNJ]

Would this be the same in Gibraltar?  Can you use tap and go on the local buses and/or taxicabs?

[chismrules]

Does anyone know about using American Express cards? Does most places take AE. We are also doing a cruise to Norway if anyone knows the answer to there also.

 

[Globaliser]

1 hour ago, chismrules said:

Does anyone know about using American Express cards? Does most places take AE. We are also doing a cruise to Norway if anyone knows the answer to there also.

 

In London, most places take Amex. When I'm using my Amex as my primary card, the vast majority of the transactions for which I can't use Amex are for bills like taxes or electricity. I think that there only two of my regular shops (a local dry cleaner and a local coffee shop) that don't take Amex. But because of these occasional exceptions, if Amex is your primary card then it's useful to have a secondary non-Amex card. Either a Mastercard or a Visa will do.

[John Bull]

4 hours ago, Globaliser said:

 

In London, most places take Amex. ......................................... if Amex is your primary card then it's useful to have a secondary non-Amex card. Either a Mastercard or a Visa will do.

 

That's in the big bad city, G.

It's very different out in the provinces - merchants don't like the higher charges and slow crediting of Amex & D/C, so far, far fewer accept them. And the comparatively low proportion of locals who actually have an Amex also have Visa or M/C because they know that just Amex would be a significant restriction.

For an overseas visitor, even in London I'd rate a secondary Visa or M/C as essential rather than useful .

JB 🙂

[wowzz]

I think you might have issues with AmEx in Norway.

https://thenorwayguide.com/make-sure-your-credit-card-works/?utm_content=cmp-true

[chismrules]

Thank you for the info about AE cards , in Norway it talks about CC with a 4 digit pin code. Even our Visa don't have a pin code. The only one that does is my visa debit card that comes directly out of my bank account which I really don't want to use. IDK maybe they do and we just need to set it up, and because its not required in US we don't have one.