Increase in Hotel and Dining Service Charge (aka Auto-Gratuities)

[Windsurfboy]

 

Firstly

 

My understanding  and I can't remember where I read it so it could be classed as hearsay, is gratuities are shared amongst all the hotel staff but excluding bar staff who get the % on drinks and also not officers . The engineering staff are not included.

 

Secondly

 I  would expect to be told of increase before I board.

 

Lastly 

It's a  completely personal choice of how much to pay or whether to pay at all.  Same applies to tipping individuals. No one  else's bussiness. 

 

 

More generally 

There are pluses and minuses to including gratuities in fare. I think if the crew are from countries where service is part of culture it will work well, this applies to most of the crew on most cruise ships I've been on. However if they come from countries that have become habituated to tipping, then there may be issues until the culture changes.

 

 

[BigMac1953]

36 minutes ago, Windsurfboy said:

 

My understanding  and I can't remember where I read it so it could be classed as hearsay, is gratuities are shared amongst all the hotel staff but excluding bar staff who get the % on drinks and also not officers .

 

Over the years, the qualifying staff increased until it INCLUDED the officers, which is what I was told by a friend who was a senior officer (retd.).

 

 

[majortom10]

4 hours ago, Victoria2 said:

OK.

I couldn't care less what folk do about their individual gratuity protocols as it's non of my business. Staff wages are non of my business either but as you seem to have your ear to the ground re all sorts of Cunard staff issues through your comments on this board, I will ask yet again, please provide official links to  corroborate  your comments.

 

If it's a case of 'I have heard' or 'it's well known', then that is in the realms of hearsay. Provide the evidence and the hearsay is indeed, fact.

 

 

If you have cruised as long as you have you should know that it has been well documented on the media and TV. Always remember watching a C4 programme where bosses worked on the shop floor and he worked with waiter on deck serving drinks. He told him he got paid $1 a day plus an amount from every drink he sold. So the more he sold theore he made but the boss seemed to be very embarrassed and how hard the waiter had to work.

[Victoria2]

8 minutes ago, majortom10 said:

If you have cruised as long as you have you should know that it has been well documented on the media and TV. Always remember watching a C4 programme where bosses worked on the shop floor and he worked with waiter on deck serving drinks. He told him he got paid $1 a day plus an amount from every drink he sold. So the more he sold theore he made but the boss seemed to be very embarrassed and how hard the waiter had to work.

Major Tom

I have been cruising for many years, it's true and solely Cunard over the last decade. I have read 'definitive' information aired on this board which has been proven to be utter tosh but delivered in such an authoritative manner, it's hard to disagree with if you can't prove otherwise.

 

Lots of information is aired on the media but until you provide an official link to all the *Cunard points you've brought up, it's still in the realms of hearsay. Sorry.

Edited March 27, 2023 by Victoria2
*Cunard

[PORT ROYAL]

56 minutes ago, Victoria2 said:

Major Tom

I have been cruising for many years, it's true and solely Cunard over the last decade. I have read 'definitive' information aired on this board which has been proven to be utter tosh but delivered in such an authoritative manner, it's hard to disagree with if you can't prove otherwise.

 

Lots of information is aired on the media but until you provide an official link to all the *Cunard points you've brought up, it's still in the realms of hearsay. Sorry.

The Truth IS Out There……….

[TouchstoneFeste]

It would be really lovely if crews were paid properly. Also if there were no wars, and all children were given free kittens. That's not the world we live in, however. Like the staff in a US restaurant, cruise ship crews are dependent on tips for a significant percentage of their income. You won't change that by removing the auto-gratuities from your bill. Perhaps you could change it by declining to book passage with those lines that have auto-gratuities and informing management of that fact.

 

In the US, people seem finally to be catching on to the fact that if you can't afford to tip the restaurant staff, you can't afford to patronize that restaurant. The same should apply to cruise ships. To do otherwise seems ... well, I won't say it.

 

For @Victoria2    :)

 

https://lifewellcruised.com/cruise-tipping-guidelines/

https://thepointsguy.com/guide/cruise-ship-tipping/

https://cruisemaven.com/cruise-ship-gratuities/

https://www.royalcaribbean.com/faq/questions/onboard-service-gratuity-expense

 

Note that the last of these references is Royal Caribbean's statement on the issue.

 

I've made my case, and will now bow out of the discussion.

[Host Hattie]

There's no need to rely on other websites there are plenty of articles on the subject on Cruise Critic. 

Can you remove gratuities ? Should you ?

Cruise Line Gratuities - what's the point?

 

And lots more

 

 

[KeithErnest]

50 minutes ago, TouchstoneFeste said:

In the US, people seem finally to be catching on to the fact that if you can't afford to tip the restaurant staff, you can't afford to patronize that restaurant. The same should apply to cruise ships. To do otherwise seems ... well, I won't say it.

I booked my cruise with Cunard knowing that a service charge would be added to the cruise fare. I just budgeted accordingly.  However, the "service charge" that I am charged in IMHO should be the same dollar amount listed at the time I made my booking or paid my fare in full. 

 

I am all for a fixed tip amount.  In Canada, like the USA servers working at a restaurant expect a tip.  Fair enough, but the tip I leave is a fixed amount regardless of what I order.   Why should the tip be a percentage of the bill?  Did the server work harder to bring me a hamburger vs bringing me a steak?   

 

[Victoria2]

 

All the links given make interesting reading and I'm sure, a high percentage of it is fact but I can't see where specific emotive Cunard points I questioned eg slave labour wages/boosting profits, are addressed.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited March 27, 2023 by Victoria2

[techteach]

Seattle is a pretty radical city and we’ve raised minimum wage and many, if not most, restaurants now add 18% gratuity automatically. @KeithErnest makes an interesting point regarding % of the bill. If not by percentage then how would it be determined? Would each course ordered be assessed a surcharge? I guess would just like to see it figured into the real cost of the meal and included in the price. Hamburger vs. Prime Rib with a sauce. Very different time and skill level required.

[KeithErnest]

10 minutes ago, techteach said:

Seattle is a pretty radical city and we’ve raised minimum wage and many, if not most, restaurants now add 18% gratuity automatically. @KeithErnest makes an interesting point regarding % of the bill. If not by percentage then how would it be determined? Would each course ordered be assessed a surcharge? I guess would just like to see it figured into the real cost of the meal and included in the price. Hamburger vs. Prime Rib with a sauce. Very different time and skill level required.

@techteach Interesting.  Instead of using a percentage to calculate the gratuity, I would suggest a fixed amount per person dining at the table.  IMO the price of the food should not enter into it.  Yes, more work for the cook to cook a steak but it is my understanding that it is the server that receives most of the tip/gratuity.  To add insult to using the bill percentage, here in Canada there are several options for adding a gratuity including 'other'.  The percentage range is from 15% to 25% and all these percentages include the tax which has been added to the bill.  

[TouchstoneFeste]

1 hour ago, Victoria2 said:

 

All the links given make interesting reading and I'm sure, a high percentage of it is fact but I can't see where specific emotive Cunard points I questioned eg slave labour wages/boosting profits, are addressed.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Oh, no. I wasn't addressing that issue at all. Just support for my own argument.

[Victoria2]

7 hours ago, TouchstoneFeste said:

Oh, no. I wasn't addressing that issue at all. Just support for my own argument.

I have no personal interest in staff wages, just as I have no subjective interest whether other folk pay auto- grats or not. It is none of my business other than mild curiosity, but thank you for all the links. They will be interesting reading for many although they contain nothing I haven't already read.

 

When you copied me into your post, as I said, I assumed the emotive language I questioned would be addressed. I am aware of all the points raised. I am not aware though that a company such as Cunard would be paying slave labour wages and it's language such as that I wanted an official link to and not the blogs and reports from non Cunard sources.

 

I quite realise exaggeration is often used to highlight salient points, but there's exaggeration and then there are plain untruths. Exaggeration is bad enough but untruths are downright unfair which is why I wanted, and still do, official information, which as it's none of my or others' business, I doubt I'll get.

 

As an addition to Big Mac's excellent post #39, I recalled a conversation we had with one of our wait staff as he proudly told us of his daughter's achievements at her private school and how she was hoping to study computer engineering at university. His son, had just come back from a school visit [I can't remember the country] with his  cricket team. He was SO proud of the fact he could do this for his children.

 

Sp maybe  he was a sort of slave, but to his children's future. If so, I can be counted in that number.

[fourmile.ranch]

No personal interest in this topic but just wondering if folks realize most of these answers are available for anyone with an internet connection?

[Windsurfboy]

We will never agree on tipping. There is such a cultural divide between North America,  for whom circa 20% tip is normal, but waiters basic is a pittance and rely on plenty of turnover to get a living wage.  Compared to countries e.g Japan  where no tips are expected, seen almost as an insult.. With Europe in UK in the middle but slowly becoming more American

 

Auto gratuities on ship follow the fixed fee model not the % of fare (excluding the slight upgrade for grills).

 

However the point of this thread was about the unannounced increase and whether you should be told before you board. Or it should be fixed like the price when you book. 

 

I would like it to be fixed when you book , but failing this should at least be told before you board 

[exlondoner]

36 minutes ago, Windsurfboy said:

We will never agree on tipping. There is such a cultural divide between North America,  for whom circa 20% tip is normal, but waiters basic is a pittance and rely on plenty of turnover to get a living wage.  Compared to countries e.g Japan  where no tips are expected, seen almost as an insult.. With Europe in UK in the middle but slowly becoming more American

 

Auto gratuities on ship follow the fixed fee model not the % of fare (excluding the slight upgrade for grills).

 

However the point of this thread was about the unannounced increase and whether you should be told before you board. Or it should be fixed like the price when you book. 

 

I would like it to be fixed when you book , but failing this should at least be told before you board 

I agree that you should know the actual rate before you book, and certainly be informed before you board, which doesn’t seem to have happened. An email would have been nice. I bet there is something somewhere in the very small print though.

[bluemarble]

1 hour ago, Windsurfboy said:

I would like it to be fixed when you book , but failing this should at least be told before you board 

 

30 minutes ago, exlondoner said:

I agree that you should know the actual rate before you book, and certainly be informed before you board, which doesn’t seem to have happened. An email would have been nice. I bet there is something somewhere in the very small print though.

 

Are the new service charge rates showing up for you in the "Money matters" section of My Cunard (as I mentioned I saw for the first time last Thursday)?
 

That probably qualifies as something akin to fine print and is pretty well hidden. An email would have been helpful. But it is there on the US version of My Cunard for my future bookings anyway.

 

"Service charges

 

For your convenience, a daily hotel and dining charge will automatically be added to your shipboard account, dependant on the grade of accommodation booked as follows:

 

> US$16.50 per person, per day - for Queens Grill and Princess Grill accommodation.

> US$14.50 per person, per day - for Britannia accommodation."

[exlondoner]

18 minutes ago, bluemarble said:

 

 

Are the new service charge rates showing up for you in the "Money matters" section of My Cunard (as I mentioned I saw for the first time last Thursday)?
 

That probably qualifies as something akin to fine print and is pretty well hidden. An email would have been helpful. But it is there on the US version of My Cunard for my future bookings anyway.

 

"Service charges

 

For your convenience, a daily hotel and dining charge will automatically be added to your shipboard account, dependant on the grade of accommodation booked as follows:

 

> US$16.50 per person, per day - for Queens Grill and Princess Grill accommodation.

> US$14.50 per person, per day - for Britannia accommodation."

You are quite right, there it is. I knew you would know. But, as you say, not too easy to find.

[naturelovergirl]

The new prices are definitely on my online planner in for my August cruise- I followed the instructions @bluemarble gave on an earlier post about how to find it.

[2Oldpeopleinlove]

“For your convenience, a daily hotel and dining charge will automatically be added to…”

 

No opinion to note here; I just always find the “for your convenience” intro howlingly funny!

[exlondoner]

15 minutes ago, 2Oldpeopleinlove said:

“For your convenience, a daily hotel and dining charge will automatically be added to…”

 

No opinion to note here; I just always find the “for your convenience” intro howlingly funny!

Actually, I find that closer to the truth than many uses of the phrase, because I do find it saves me a lot of trouble. In contrast to when banks use this type of terminology. ‘This branch is closing….For your convenience, the nearest branch is (a town 10 miles away, not easily accessible by public transport).’

[NE John]

At least this “third-rail” topic gave us all a break from debating and venting about the ever-changing Cunard Dress Code issue!

[techteach]

@NE John We are sailing on Oceania for the first time in September so I’ve been following the Oceania boards and they also have great debates over the dress code and violations of it including pictures of people! I’m glad our threads haven’t come to that.

[TouchstoneFeste]

1 hour ago, NE John said:

At least this “third-rail” topic gave us all a break from debating and venting about the ever-changing Cunard Dress Code issue!

 

How about "I refuse to tip any crewmember who won't enforce the dress code!"

[Host Hattie]

23 minutes ago, TouchstoneFeste said:

 

How about "I refuse to tip any crewmember who won't enforce the dress code!"

No thanks 🤣