Need help for European flights

[Gray Lady]

We are going on a cruise in April 2024, leaving from Barcelona. First time traveling to Europe. We are flying out from San Francisco. I have learned so much from the Regent CC family, and would really appreciate some help/opinions on flights and airports. I am only familiar with flying Southwest or having a direct flight to Mexico. I read through the thread on Regent flights with/without deviation and took notes, but have some questions. We are going to deviate our flights in mid-September, and I have started looking at the flight matrix. I know many of these flights WILL change, and new ones will be added. I am an unsure if the stop over times provide enough time to make the connecting flight. Blame the retired teacher in me, but I like to do my research and be prepared. Here is what I have gathered NOT to do:

A) Don’t fly Air France or KLM

B) Don’t fly into Amsterdam, Charles de Gaulle, or Frankfort

C) Don’t change airlines at Heathrow

 

To simplify things, I looked at flights with only one stopover. Many of the flights have both segments on the same airline. I have read I should ignore the prices on the matrix, as Regent has contracts.  Also, I am sure prices will fluctuate over the next 4 months. Here are the questions I have that maybe some of you can answer from your experiences.

1) Did I read correctly, that if we fly from SFO to Toronto, and from there fly to Barcelona (all on Air Canada), that we don’t have to go through customs and immigration in Canada?

2) If we fly on British Airways to Heathrow, change planes to fly to Barcelona on British Airways, do we have to go through customs and immigration?

3) If we fly as said in #2, would a 4 hour stopover be enough time?

4) Is the Munich airport okay to fly into?

5) If we flew into Munich on United, would a 3 hour stop be enough time to change airlines to Lufthansa? From what I understand, we would not need to go through customs and immigration in Munich because Germany and Spain are both part of the EU.

6) Delta has flights from SFO to Atlanta, but you need to change terminals (I gather from domestic to international) to get the Delta flight to Barcelona. How much stop over time would we need for this?

7) I assume that stopping and changing planes, not airlines, at JFK and Newark is a good way to go. How much time should I allow between flights to ensure we make our connection? United has flights that would get us there anywhere from 2.5 hours to 4.5 hours before the connecting flight. 
😎 Does anyone have any experience with Tap Air Portugal airlines? They fly from SFO to Lisbon, then to Barcelona.

9) If taking Tap Air, how much time is needed for a stop in Lisbon? I am assuming there is no immigration and customs because it is in EU.
 

Anything else that you can share would be greatly appreciated. Also read some of the threads about flights on the main CC page (too many threads to try and find this info), but have found all of you to be very, very helpful. Appreciate any and all opinions!

 

[Lonedaddy]

So flyer talk is a good site for flight questions, but here goes my options.

Here is what I have gathered NOT to do:

A) Don’t fly Air France or KLM

B) Don’t fly into Amsterdam, Charles de Gaulle, or Frankfort

C) Don’t change airlines at Heathrow - I would agree

 

 

1) Did I read correctly, that if we fly from SFO to Toronto, and from there fly to Barcelona (all on Air Canada), that we don’t have to go through customs and immigration in Canada? Correct 

2) If we fly on British Airways to Heathrow, change planes to fly to Barcelona on British Airways, do we have to go through customs and immigration? - They have a transit area but you will be security screened again but no customs or immigration.

 

3) If we fly as said in #2, would a 4 hour stopover be enough time? -  Should be ample

 

4) Is the Munich airport okay to fly into?-  Yes I like it.

 

5) If we flew into Munich on United, would a 3 hour stop be enough time to change airlines to Lufthansa? From what I understand, we would not need to go through customs and immigration in Munich because Germany and Spain are both part of the EU. - yes but you will go through customs as both Germany and Spain are schengen countries so if you go to one go to all.

 

6) Delta has flights from SFO to Atlanta, but you need to change terminals (I gather from domestic to international) to get the Delta flight to Barcelona. How much stop over time would we need for this? - they have a rail that connects the terminals .  Should have plenty of time.  
 

7) I assume that stopping and changing planes, not airlines, at JFK and Newark is a good way to go. How much time should I allow between flights to ensure we make our connection? United has flights that would get us there anywhere from 2.5 hours to 4.5 hours before the connecting flight.  - ample time usually 1 1-2 hrs is sufficient but with  delays due to fog  at sfo more time is fine as you can relax in the business class  lounges

😎 Does anyone have any experience with Tap Air Portugal airlines? They fly from SFO to Lisbon, then to Barcelona.

- I have not. 

 

9) If taking Tap Air, how much time is needed for a stop in Lisbon? I am assuming there is no immigration and customs because it is in EU.  You would go through immigration and customs in Lisbon not barca.

 

Depending on how many days earlier you are going you might consider getting across the pond first.  If your plane is delayed for whatever reason and if you at airport like LHR you have options for more later  flights to Barcelona whereas if you miss the flight at jfk,  Newark Atlanta than you probably flying the next days flight.   Personally I would try to go on the afternoon BA flight, it’s the new individual suites….

 

just my opinions and experiences for what they are worth.  

Edited May 21, 2023 by Lonedaddy

[Vineyard View]

I would agree with flying across the pond first. 
 

We have had very good experiences with AF/KLM out of SFO multiple times. Booked them for an upcoming trip. Would take them over UA out of SFO unless it was codeshare with Lufthansa. 
 

JMHO - 

[PhD-iva]

I dislike Frankfurt airport. There aren’t enough gates to accommodate flight traffic. You will likely deplane onto the tarmac very far from the terminal, and will be bused over to the terminal. You will need to descend from the plane using narrow stairs while carrying all of your own carryon luggage as you try not to trip and fall down. 
The process is reversed when you board your next flight. IIRC first/business class boards the bus first (very few seats) and then everyone else gets on the bus with you so it’s definitely not a first class experience boarding the plane.

You will go through customs and immigration wherever you first land in the EU, unless you transfer through LHR in which case I’m not sure….

[Gray Lady]

Thank you so far for all of the helpful advice!  We did book a pre-cruise 3 day tour in Barcelona, so we have some leeway with arrival times. We will leave SFO on the 10th, arrive in Barcelona on the 11th, and start sightseeing on the 12th. 

[irishwitchy]

1 hour ago, PhD-iva said:

I dislike Frankfurt airport. There aren’t enough gates to accommodate flight traffic. You will likely deplane onto the tarmac very far from the terminal, and will be bused over to the terminal. You will need to descend from the plane using narrow stairs while carrying all of your own carryon luggage as you try not to trip and fall down. 
The process is reversed when you board your next flight. IIRC first/business class boards the bus first (very few seats) and then everyone else gets on the bus with you so it’s definitely not a first class experience boarding the plane.

You will go through customs and immigration wherever you first land in the EU, unless you transfer through LHR in which case I’m not sure….

I would agree with our PhD friend, Frankfort seems to have steps, buses, waiting rooms and all kinds of crap getting on and off a flight.   I live in NJ, so ERW is where I flight out of, but if you can get across the pond from SFO, I would go for it!  However, getting around EWR can be easy or A PITA. if the flights are all United - great, if not, you will need to change terminals and go thru security again, which requires the wonky air train or you can walk outside for five minutes.  Love the research you did, very impressed! 

[welshfamily]

Amazing how opinions differ. Although we live in the Uk my husband has spent many years flying to the states. Air travel was dreadful last year with most airlines, planes were cancelled, consolidated etc.

It’s the plane for him that matters.
What plane will his business class seat be on. This makes a HUGE difference.

Only use British Airways last minute if the plane is decent and you are desperate. 
We have always found KLM and Lufthansa excellent.

Amsterdam, although busy, has an excellent lounge and fast track if your plane leaves within the hour or you need special assistance. The lanes for non EU are manned.We made a connection when we only had 30 mins last August. We had to clear customs however on arrival at Barcelona we just collected our bags. 

Munich is a lot smaller than Frankfurt.

We are transferring though Frankfurt and flying with Tap Air to Lisbon in August both with Regent. Happy to say more then.

[Techno123]

Personally, I would do my change in the US and fly directly to Barcelona. If you land anywhere in EU you have to go through security and passport control. Things may have settled down by 2024 but the workers in Europe are feeling a bit militant at the moment so strikes could be an issue (horrific in Lisbon last June), France is up in arms because of raising the retirement age, baggage handlers at Heathrow to name but a few .

 

in fairness to Heathrow we did a connection from LHR to Manchester UK in December after flying back from Florida (with Regent on BA 2 days before Christmas so same terminal ) we touched down at 6:25am went through security and passport control and we were on our connecting flight at 8:12am 3 mins before take off was due but they had held the plane as quite a few of us had checked through before the cut off point - that was my second most stressful transfer - the other was at O'Hare in Chicago.

Edited May 21, 2023 by Techno123

[flossie009]

21 minutes ago, welshfamily said:

Only use British Airways last minute if the plane is decent and you are desperate. 
We have always found KLM and Lufthansa excellent.

Yes, opinions certainly differ.

 

The new BA Club Suites are excellent; a vast improvement over BA’s previous Business Class configuration.

We flew LHR - LAX - LHR with BA last October and the flights were excellent in every respect.

 

The worst Business Class flights we have ever encountered were on Lufthansa (international & domestic)

 

The only flight connection we have ever missed was in Frankfurt; due to the distance between gates and security queues.

 

[European_CruiseGirl]

I would definitely change in US and then take a direct flight to Barcelona. This way you have a domestic connection first and immigration/passport only after you reach your final destination. So no need to worry in passport lines if you have enough time to change to your connecting flight. Passport lines can be unpredictable in lenght and are always best to have at the end of the trip. Btw if you have read it is better to change flights in Europe while going to the US that is true too as on that direction it is better to also leave the passport/immigration until the end of the trip. So it is different than when flying from US to EU 😊

 

There is a direct flight from LAX to Barcelona. Would that work? Or then just fly to JFK and you’ll have a lot of direct flights from there. However if you want to fly to Europe first I’d avoid the following airports at all costs: 

 

LHR -> UK is not part of EU anymore so you’d end up doing passport/immigration twice. First to UK and then when you enter EU. 
 

CDG -> the airport is just very weird with busses, going stairs up and down, more busses. Just very confusing. 
 

FRA -> read from the previous answers

 

Munich is a very nice airport and haven’t heard of anything bad of Lisbon either. 

 

 

[PhD-iva]

I forgot to add that in Munich, I seemed to be unable to find an elevator entering the terminal. I had to take my carry-on luggage up one flight of stairs. But this is not the same amount of stairs in your two story home. One flight of stairs goes on almost forever. Amazing 

Edited May 21, 2023 by PhD-iva
Oops

[mj_holiday]

The passport control is if you are in a schengen country.  When you first enter a schengen you go through border control (passport check) and won't need to for next stop or arrival at another schengen country.

 

We have gone through LHR twice since COVID and had 6 hours between flights, while a long time I also was relaxed about making the connecting flight and the fact that our luggage made it with us.

 

I recommend Apple Air Tags for your luggage if you have IPhones.  I was able to relax when I saw our suitcases move toward our connection just before I lost wifi.

I recommend using seatguru.com to look at the seats in business class.  Make sure they are lie flat if you want to sleep.

When we go with BA I have our TA get us seat assignments with the booking. I am not sure how she does this but we get them.  I do not like waiting for the seat assignments.

LHR and Madrid airports both have the practice where you do not get your departing gate until 30 minutes prior (LHR) and 50-60 minutes prior (Madrid)  I always worry about not getting to the gate fast enough when it is announced.

[BBWC]

Just to-explain a little more - where you go with your passport is called Immigration , where you go through with your luggage after the final leg is called customs

 

So if you fly into Munich, you would go through immigration to enter the Schengen zone, and then go through customs in Barcelona with your luggage (which basically is just walking through the green doors).

 

If you only transit at LHR, you do not have to go through immigration, just a security check.

 

Connecting in the US instead of Europe is particularly bad advice, for the following reasons:

1. If you are on two separate airlines, your domestic flight is in ECONOMY. Even if on the same airline (UA,AA, etc.), you will be in a domestic first seat rather than a lie flat International business seat. You will also not get lounge access before a domestic flight.

2. Flying from the west coast to Europe will take 10-11 hours and will allow you to enjoy a meal and then get adequate rest, whereas when you connect on the East coast, your flight to Europe may only be 6-7 hours which does not allow for adequate sleep.

3. If your initial domestic flight is delayed and you miss your connecting flight to Europe, there is likely no flight until the next day. If that is booked, it may take you more than one day to get to your final destination. If your long haul flight to Europe is delayed, there are usually multiple flights per day to your final destination and you can usually be easily rebooked.

 

Finally, don’t listen to ‘don’t fly this or that airline’. That usually comes from infrequent flyers who just happened to experience a bad day, it does not reflect all flights on that airline. For instance, we had a lovely flight on AF last year.

 

While some of the mentioned airports can be a challenge, it is usually because people book too short a connection and then do not have enough time. Do not book a one hour connection, give yourself some time and relax in the lounge waiting for your connecting flight (lounge access is included in European business class).

[Gray Lady]

52 minutes ago, BBWC said:

Just to-explain a little more - where you go with your passport is called Immigration , where you go through with your luggage after the final leg is called customs

 

So if you fly into Munich, you would go through immigration to enter the Schengen zone, and then go through customs in Barcelona with your luggage (which basically is just walking through the green doors).

 

If you only transit at LHR, you do not have to go through immigration, just a security check.

 

Connecting in the US instead of Europe is particularly bad advice, for the following reasons:

1. If you are on two separate airlines, your domestic flight is in ECONOMY. Even if on the same airline (UA,AA, etc.), you will be in a domestic first seat rather than a lie flat International business seat. You will also not get lounge access before a domestic flight.

2. Flying from the west coast to Europe will take 10-11 hours and will allow you to enjoy a meal and then get adequate rest, whereas when you connect on the East coast, your flight to Europe may only be 6-7 hours which does not allow for adequate sleep.

3. If your initial domestic flight is delayed and you miss your connecting flight to Europe, there is likely no flight until the next day. If that is booked, it may take you more than one day to get to your final destination. If your long haul flight to Europe is delayed, there are usually multiple flights per day to your final destination and you can usually be easily rebooked.

 

Finally, don’t listen to ‘don’t fly this or that airline’. That usually comes from infrequent flyers who just happened to experience a bad day, it does not reflect all flights on that airline. For instance, we had a lovely flight on AF last year.

 

While some of the mentioned airports can be a challenge, it is usually because people book too short a connection and then do not have enough time. Do not book a one hour connection, give yourself some time and relax in the lounge waiting for your connecting flight (lounge access is included in European business class).

BBWC, you have given me new things to think about. I must admit that I am one of those people who always stresses out about my flights during the transit to. If they say to arrive at the airport three hours early, I will be there at least four. I really don’t care too much about coming home because I already had my fun. I would be happier being on a flight to Europe first. In fact, new airlines and flights were just posted in the last hour (Iberia).I have noticed that if we fly Tap Portugal to Lisbon or United to Munich, that the flights out to Barcelona happen on a regular basis. That means that if we miss our first flight, there are at least two others to catch. Fingers crossed for a non-stop to pop up. Then again, a lot depends on who Regent has seats with and if there is an up-charge. So many moving pieces to get our ducks in a row!

 

Curiosity question that I don’t recall seeing the answer to. If you have a domestic leg where you are placed in economy, will Regent upgrade that to business for a price? I have only ever flown in economy, but am happy to have the business class for overseas.

[RachelG]

If Regent is doing your air, you may be pretty much stuck with what they give you, unless you want to pay a huge surcharge.  I was going to have them do our air for our cruise this fall, as I couldn’t find anything with points or miles, I was willing to pay the deviation fee to get flights that were acceptable to me, but everything that I would even consider had a huge surcharge attached, sometimes $3000 pp.  so I went back and looked at what I could find on my own, and found flights that aren’t perfect, but are at an acceptable price.

 

as far as changing airlines in LHR, we have done it many times without problem.  If you change terminals, generally terminal 3 to terminal 5 or vice versa, you do have to go back through security, but that is even if you are on BA all the way through.

[2012_Alaska_bound]

20 hours ago, PhD-iva said:

I dislike Frankfurt airport. There aren’t enough gates to accommodate flight traffic. You will likely deplane onto the tarmac very far from the terminal, and will be bused over to the terminal. You will need to descend from the plane using narrow stairs while carrying all of your own carryon luggage as you try not to trip and fall down. 
The process is reversed when you board your next flight. IIRC first/business class boards the bus first (very few seats) and then everyone else gets on the bus with you so it’s definitely not a first class experience boarding the plane.

 

Amen to all of the above! I avoid Frankfurt for all of these reasons! In fact, they didn't even have First class board the bus first. Every person for themselves! Luckily for me a kind young woman carried my carry on up the steps for me. First class was a standard 3 seat row with the middle seat left empty, which I believe is normal in European "domestic" flights.

 

Regent flew me home from Porto on Iberia and I liked it very much, so if that is a possibility you might consider it.

[SkystheLimit]

Definitely agree with changing in the US and then nonstop to Barcelona.  Atlanta is not a difficult place to connect.  While there are there are 6 parallel terminals(concourses) they are all connected by an underground train.  The train stops are in the middle of the concourses so there are not any extremely long walks.  The international concourses E and F are comfortable, spacious, and brightly lit.  Easy places to spend some while waiting to connect. 

[2012_Alaska_bound]

5 hours ago, Gray Lady said:

If you have a domestic leg where you are placed in economy, will Regent upgrade that to business for a price?

 

I have always gotten First Class for domestic if continuing on overseas in BC when Regent books my flights. All of these have been either American or United with partner airlines though. 5 flights so far with 2 more also booked that way.

[Lonedaddy]

14 hours ago, European_CruiseGirl said:

 

 

LHR -> UK is not part of EU anymore so you’d end up doing passport/immigration twice. First to UK and then when you enter EU. 

 

 

You don't go through customs and immigration at LHR if you are merely transiting

[Lonedaddy]

8 hours ago, mj_holiday said:

 

 

I recommend Apple Air Tags for your luggage if you have IPhones.  I was able to relax when I saw our suitcases move toward our connection just before I lost wifi.

I recommend using seatguru.com to look at the seats in business class.  

 

seat guru is a little out dated sometime this is a little better site Hola - aeroLOPA | Detailed aircraft seat plans .  agree with the airtags

[jeb_bud]

We cruised out of Barcelona in 2019, flying from SFO-EWR-BCN on United. The domestic leg was in First Class. We got into BCN in the morning and were in our hotel before noon which gave us some time to do some touristing before dinner and bed. If that routing is still available I would do it again in a heartbeat. 

[curmudgeon98]

We are sitting in Barcelona now, waiting to board the Regent Mariner tomorrow.  We fly fairly often from SF bay area to Europe, so I'll add a few notes to what has been said previously.  If we are doing a cruise, we book our own airfare, as we usually stay an additional week or two on each end of the cruise.

 

There are good and bad factors for most of the airlines, as well as quite a bit of randomness which may strike.  One positive in your case is that there are a lot of non-stops to Europe out of SF (though very little directly to Barcelona).  As of today, the only nonstop SFO-BCN flight I'm aware of is on Level (Iberia subsidiary) which is a basic airline with no business class.  This might change by next year.

 

Flying out of SFO, I'd be inclined to lean towards Star Alliance (United and partners) because there are a lot more options if things get funky and you have to be rescheduled (United, Lufthansa, Swiss, SAS).  I much prefer making the connection on the Europe side, especially for the return.  Getting your bags to go through US customs and then having to do security again in a transit airport is annoying.

 

Our most recent flight was on British Airways, as I got suckered by the convenience to us of flying from SJC.  Not a great choice.  BA has some really poor business class seats on certain of their planes (supposedly getting replaced in the next few years).  Then BA had some major IT problems last week and their customer service wasn't up to dealing with the resulting mess.  It took us two additional days, and a lot of headaches, to finally get here.  Fortunately we had one-up'd the "don't fly in on the day of your cruise", and so we had several days to spare.  This type of chaos can happen on other airlines too, though.  

[vistaman]

I hope I may add som details on recent flights :

Did  Lufthansa Munich Miami in First  :  booked business upgrade with miles  :  not worth the money at all  Champagne  and food not up to First   2nd meal was terrible 

Swiss in First : far better quality 

most recent flight in Europa was on TAP  Lisbon Brussels  in business : terrible  instead of a roll 2 slices of a grey not so fresh  bread   lukewarm drinks 

Turkish : overrated 

on European flights  Lufthansa is going down -   Swiss and Austrian better  -all in business 

and i do not like the Belgian Brussels airline extremely poor catering in business  

i am not in the reward system of KLM and Air France  -  the flight Brussels Paris is not existing anymore  replaced by high speed train   -  terrible with luggage especially for a cruise 

 

[2SailingNomads]

My opinion: avoid CDG at all costs unless a 4+ hour layover, and good luck if you do miss your connection - worst experience ever and I have flown close to 2 million miles; AMS and LHR we have found to be fine even with all the issues last year: have only had very good experiences on KLM, both across the Atlantic and inter-Europe.  Any time I can take the KLM LAS -> AMS flight I will.  Have had good luck with BA, despite their reputation.  YMMV...