Curious About Tips

[jimbo5544]

11 minutes ago, imacruiser99 said:

Question for the group,

If Carnival, or any other cruise line, would totally eliminate the need for tips, gratuities or whatever you want to call them, but raise their base fares to cover them so that the crew could earn a decent wage for the hours they expend to make our cruise experience pleasurable

1) would you still book with the cruise line knowing that the fare you are paying is now increased potentially significantly?

2) Would you still tip additional amounts if the service warranted an extra amount?

3) Be more prone to register complaints on service if the crew was not living up to expectations?

 

 

 

 

Never happen so fruitless to comment

[mz-s]

18 minutes ago, imacruiser99 said:

Question for the group,

If Carnival, or any other cruise line, would totally eliminate the need for tips, gratuities or whatever you want to call them, but raise their base fares to cover them so that the crew could earn a decent wage for the hours they expend to make our cruise experience pleasurable

1) would you still book with the cruise line knowing that the fare you are paying is now increased potentially significantly?

2) Would you still tip additional amounts if the service warranted an extra amount?

3) Be more prone to register complaints on service if the crew was not living up to expectations?

 

I do think that the automatic gratuities should be rolled in to the base fare. I think that would be a competitive advantage for whichever of the big 3 lines does it first.

 

I don't think it will affect the service that guests receive onboard. There is still a chain of command, still a strong drive for results, and guests will of course still be able to tip individually if they choose to for exemplary service.

 

I don't think tipping should be expected or customary in any line of work. It should only be for exemplary service. But that's not the reality of where we are right now as a society. I hope we are at an inflection point and tipping culture is on a downswing generally, but time will tell.

[AHS123]

15 minutes ago, jimbo5544 said:

Never happen so fruitless to comment

Tell them why, jimbo. 

[BlerkOne]

57 minutes ago, imacruiser99 said:

Question for the group,

If Carnival, or any other cruise line, would totally eliminate the need for tips, gratuities or whatever you want to call them, but raise their base fares to cover them so that the crew could earn a decent wage for the hours they expend to make our cruise experience pleasurable

1) would you still book with the cruise line knowing that the fare you are paying is now increased potentially significantly?

2) Would you still tip additional amounts if the service warranted an extra amount?

3) Be more prone to register complaints on service if the crew was not living up to expectations?

 

 

Not going to happen for most cruise lines for a number of reasons, including it is tradition and always has been. Even on "no tipping" cruise lines, tipping happens.

 

You destroy any incentive for workers to go above and beyond. Granted, people pulling tips has the opposite effect.

 

A number of people choose cruises based on price alone - if a cruise line raises base fares for any reason, it puts them at a competitive disadvantage. It doesn't matter what is built into the cruise fare.

[Elaine5715]

4 hours ago, mz-s said:

 

You're calling JH a liar? I know this is a source of a source but I can attest to reading the exact same words on Heald's facebook page back when he mentioned it so it is a direct quote. https://www.cruisehive.com/carnival-cruise-line-offers-details-on-how-gratuities-are-shared/99286

I am saying he is clueless.  The article is lifting statements from FB, not an interview.  He has also told people there is no problem leaving balcony doors open, that everyone in your traveling party can enter the priority areas and that the Afternoon Teas on the cruises he is on are typical.  

[Elaine5715]

2 hours ago, UserAndCruiser said:

This was not the wedding ceremony tip. It wasn’t my wedding, i was just a guest. My boyfriend just clarified that we prepaid our gratuities, not 18% but the standard rate. But then they added them again. So that’s why he removed them and they did so without hesitation since it was their mistake. Either way, you never know why someone is removing gratuities. Best not to judge. 

But you jumped in to claim the wrong reason

[Elaine5715]

1 hour ago, BlerkOne said:

We know nothing, but speculate endlessly. Carnival used to provide a breakdown, but then pulled it, probably because of pulled tips. You can be sure that there isn't much difference between how traditional cruise lines deal with gratuities. These are not tips like you might leave in a restaurant, based on a percentage of the bill.

Like the restaurant that charges 18% Mandatory Service Charges are morally better than those that place suggested amounts of 18%/20% on the receipt? 

[BlerkOne]

25 minutes ago, Elaine5715 said:

Like the restaurant that charges 18% Mandatory Service Charges are morally better than those that place suggested amounts of 18%/20% on the receipt? 

IMO, the topic is about the traditional cruise line gratuities and not restaurant or bar gratuities. The amounts are per person per day and not related to the cost of the cruise. They are gratuities according to the definition, but nothing like restaurant tips.

[Elaine5715]

Just now, BlerkOne said:

IMO, the topic is about the traditional cruise line gratuities and not restaurant or bar gratuities. The amounts are per person per day and not related to the cost of the cruise. They are gratuities according to the definition, but nothing like restaurant tips.

Same concept, roll the tips into the cruise fare as a "service charge" or just increase fares without explanation and claim it is a "Non Gratuity" cruise line.  A famous Michigan hotel is a "No Tips Accepted" here place (they really mean it) but room rates are over $600 a night.  Other nearby  hotels are much, much less but tipping is expected yet many think that $600 is a better deal, saving them money. 

[2wheelin]

On 5/23/2023 at 7:26 PM, Elaine5715 said:

Fairly significant

What is significant and how would you know? Everyone is just guessing except JH.

[BlerkOne]

1 hour ago, Elaine5715 said:

Same concept, roll the tips into the cruise fare as a "service charge" or just increase fares without explanation and claim it is a "Non Gratuity" cruise line.  A famous Michigan hotel is a "No Tips Accepted" here place (they really mean it) but room rates are over $600 a night.  Other nearby  hotels are much, much less but tipping is expected yet many think that $600 is a better deal, saving them money. 

But still a competitive disadvantage.

[Elaine5715]

44 minutes ago, 2wheelin said:

What is significant and how would you know? Everyone is just guessing except JH.

I would say the 10% is pretty accurate based on anecdotical evidence from tablemates.  He is also just guessing since he isn't a "Beard" with access to that information.   

[VentureMan_2000]

So...

In summary,  

 

If everyone just did the $51... plus the $2 bill... plus random souvenirs and local chocolates from your home town... a John Deere hat... a "I Love Cruising" t-shirt... a bottle of local hot sauce... and a Pringles bought at the airport...

This would be more than an adequate TIP.

Now... The cash moneys distribution is pretty straight forward, but I'm wondering how they would distribute the random souvenirs and local chocolates from your home town... the John Deere hat... the "I Love Cruising" t-shirt... the bottle of local hot sauce... and the Pringles bought at the airport amonst the staff.

 

[momof3cruisers]

10 hours ago, mz-s said:

I'm not so sure about that because crew are never shown a list of who has removed tips if we are believing what JH says.

 

 

I like John but I’m calling baloney on that!

 

We had a cruise a year or two prior to the shut down. We met our room steward on day one and at the time you could still choose twice a day service so that’s what we chose. The first full day, he never came at all. The second day, he came, made the bed, took away towels from the floor but didn’t replace them, didn’t empty the trash and didn’t leave ice as we had requested. He had said he was out of cards so we didn’t have his number and couldn’t find him in the halls. Called the housekeeping number on the phone and asked for ice. Some random person brought it. Next day, we left a note when we went off the ship for the day asking for fresh ice but when we got back to our stateroom, he hadn’t been there. This was like 4 in the afternoon. Still nowhere to be found. This basic pattern went on. On day six, I went to guest services and cut the housekeeping tip by 50%.  Golly gee, when we returned to our cabin that afternoon, there he was in the hall asking if there were any problems. Uhhh, yeah! I told him he had missed our room completely more than once and only did a partial job the other times. No way was it a coincidence that he was finally around when we had been searching for him all week. 

[momof3cruisers]

6 hours ago, BlerkOne said:

 

Not going to happen for most cruise lines for a number of reasons, including it is tradition and always has been. Even on "no tipping" cruise lines, tipping happens.

 

You destroy any incentive for workers to go above and beyond. Granted, people pulling tips has the opposite effect.

 

A number of people choose cruises based on price alone - if a cruise line raises base fares for any reason, it puts them at a competitive disadvantage. It doesn't matter what is built into the cruise fare.

From what I have read, an additional reason is because the fare is considered income for the cruise line. Which they have to pay taxes on. So, a % would automatically be unavailable to the crew anyway. The cruise line is making money in the US, they pay US taxes. The crew are not considered to be making taxable income in the US but only under whatever system their home country has in place. The crew receives more money when tips are paid to them because the cruise line doesn’t have to pay taxes on that money. 

[BlerkOne]

2 minutes ago, momof3cruisers said:

From what I have read, an additional reason is because the fare is considered income for the cruise line. Which they have to pay taxes on. So, a % would automatically be unavailable to the crew anyway. The cruise line is making money in the US, they pay US taxes. The crew are not considered to be making taxable income in the US but only under whatever system their home country has in place. The crew receives more money when tips are paid to them because the cruise line doesn’t have to pay taxes on that money. 

Not sure about that. Gross income isn't what is taxed. Expenses etc are subtracted before you arrive at net income.

 

A different situation, but in many states it is illegal for employers to keep any employee gratuities so they would have to be kept separate from other funds.

[Old Fart Cruisers]

1 hour ago, momof3cruisers said:

I like John but I’m calling baloney on that!

 

We had a cruise a year or two prior to the shut down. We met our room steward on day one and at the time you could still choose twice a day service so that’s what we chose. The first full day, he never came at all. The second day, he came, made the bed, took away towels from the floor but didn’t replace them, didn’t empty the trash and didn’t leave ice as we had requested. He had said he was out of cards so we didn’t have his number and couldn’t find him in the halls. Called the housekeeping number on the phone and asked for ice. Some random person brought it. Next day, we left a note when we went off the ship for the day asking for fresh ice but when we got back to our stateroom, he hadn’t been there. This was like 4 in the afternoon. Still nowhere to be found. This basic pattern went on. On day six, I went to guest services and cut the housekeeping tip by 50%.  Golly gee, when we returned to our cabin that afternoon, there he was in the hall asking if there were any problems. Uhhh, yeah! I told him he had missed our room completely more than once and only did a partial job the other times. No way was it a coincidence that he was finally around when we had been searching for him all week. 

 

I think what you did is different from someone just removing all the tips.   You said  "On day six, I went to guest services and cut the housekeeping tip by 50%".  I assume you would have told guest services the reason you were reducing the housekeeping tip.  Of course guest services is going to forward any complaints to your room Stewart's superior, so the problem can be addressed. 

[sparks1093]

13 hours ago, mz-s said:

 

You're calling JH a liar? I know this is a source of a source but I can attest to reading the exact same words on Heald's facebook page back when he mentioned it so it is a direct quote. https://www.cruisehive.com/carnival-cruise-line-offers-details-on-how-gratuities-are-shared/99286

I wouldn't call him a liar per se, but just because he's the spokesperson doesn't mean he knows everything, either (and I am aware of other situations where he said something that was wrong). If someone does remove tips I CAN believe that the staff would be asked why customer X removed tips, if only to find out if the customer voiced any complaints. So they aren't shown a list, but they are told which of their customers (if any) removed tips. The article does demonstrate that the tips are pooled, so thanks for sharing that. (It also could be they are obligated to ask if the customer removed the tips if they receive extra tips.)

 

On a side note, when you order a drink in the MDR and leave an extra tip, who gets it? According to my head waiter on Glory the waitstaff team does and they share it. I have no reason to doubt her.

Edited May 25, 2023 by sparks1093

[sparks1093]

9 hours ago, BlerkOne said:

 

Even on "no tipping" cruise lines, tipping happens.

 

 

And I would be willing to bet that it is expected by the staff.

[jimbo5544]

3 hours ago, AHS123 said:

Tell them why, jimbo. 

Blerk beat me to it.

[jimbo5544]

59 minutes ago, sparks1093 said:

And I would be willing to bet that it is expected by the staff.

I have been on one and it most certainly is expected.  It is not going to change.

[AHS123]

15 minutes ago, jimbo5544 said:

Blerk beat me to it.

Not quite. You've shared in the past that if Carnival builds into the fare a cost for service which cannot be removed, then the U.S. government considers that to be crew wages and not tips. Which means that Carnival would have to begin paying U.S. payroll taxes on those wages and that is the prime reason that Carnival wants things to stay just as they are. I think you're correct in this as watching the bottom line is the responsibility of management to shareholders. 

Edited May 25, 2023 by AHS123

[jimbo5544]

48 minutes ago, AHS123 said:

Not quite. You've shared in the past that if Carnival builds into the fare a cost for service which cannot be removed, then the U.S. government considers that to be crew wages and not tips. Which means that Carnival would have to begin paying U.S. payroll taxes on those wages and that is the prime reason that Carnival wants things to stay just as they are. I think you're correct in this as watching the bottom line is the responsibility of management to shareholders. 

Stockholders in a publicly traded company is always the bottom line.  

[sanmarcosman]

2 hours ago, AHS123 said:

 You've shared in the past that if Carnival builds into the fare a cost for service which cannot be removed, then the U.S. government considers that to be crew wages and not tips. Which means that Carnival would have to begin paying U.S. payroll taxes on those wages and that is the prime reason that Carnival wants things to stay just as they are. 

This makes the most sense and best explains why Carnival does business this way. This really puts it in perspective and helped. Thanks

[Hoosierpop]

At the end of the cruise, I tell the crew, there won’t be any gratuity. But on their deathbed, they will receive total consciousness. So they got that going for them.