Eliminating Butlers - Spoke to Celebrity. Here is conversation.

[CruiseRQA]

52 minutes ago, paulh84 said:

To go back to the golden olden days of the past, isn’t that how it was? 

I'd like to go back to the golden days of the past when there were no suites but I was served Dover Sole deboned at my tableside in the MDR,  complementary lemonade on the promenade,  a dance combo playing dance standards before dinner ...

[abbydancer2003]

On our Apex cruise, we didn't really miss the dedicated butler too much.  We got our morning coffee, "plated", Head Butler got our device connected to the TV, and that was all we asked for. 

 

On the other hand, I didn't feel there was anything special about calling the room steward a "Retreat Host".  All he did was standard stuff very well, laundry and made sure we had water in the room.  He never filled the ice bucket, but I didn't ask him to.

 

We have cruises booked with X, mostly under the old tips included promotion.  We booked one for 2025, one for 2026, and got 4 "book later".  Those will probably end up being refunded.  We prepaid the tips on what we have, and the price ended up being not a lot more than what we've been booking before they removed them.

 

By the time we get to the 2026, we should be zenith.  At which point we'll move to Aqua or elsewhere.  We're already branching out and trying new lines.

Edited January 6 by abbydancer

[DaKahuna]

1 hour ago, terrydtx said:

No way anyone would pay the sky high Sky Suite fares today without the lounge access. We booked an RCL cruise last year and when we found out their "Junior" suites had no lounge and very limited suite dining at Sky Suites prices, we canceled and booked on the Equinox for the same itinerary.

 

 I was sad when they stopped letting Diamond Plus into the lounges as well.  We use to sail exclusively in Jr Suites for the room size.  The only time a Grand Suite or above was of benefit to us was on the Oasis and Quantum class ships.  

 

Best RCL cruise we had was a Baltic Sea cruise in a Jr suite with access to the Concierge Lounge.  Ticked all the boxes.  

 

[Baynanno1]

Our "book laters" (Eclipse, December 2022) have expired and been refunded. For the first time in our cruising life, we had no desire to book another during our October 2023 experience on Solstice.

 

We will cruise in March on Solstice again, but if the experience is not better than October 2023, our remaining future bookings may well be cancelled.

 

Currently looking at other cruise lines and land based trips.

[goofysmom99]

1 hour ago, Baynanno1 said:

 For the first time in our cruising life, we had no desire to book another

There's a lot of that happening.

[Jim_Iain]

On 1/5/2024 at 11:15 AM, billc23 said:

Here is my story on trying Silversea:  (long winded but may be of value to those upset about the Celebrity pricing and cutbacks - cheerleaders need not read)

 

A few years ago I started to put together a trip starting in Mumbai and continuing to North America. I was going to book the Millennium "spice route" from Mumbai to Singapore. Then book the Solstice from Honk Kong to Vancouver, CA as a B4B. I would have time on land to divide between Singapore and Hong Kong before embarking the Solstice or I could embark the Solstice in Singapore to Hong Kong and repeat part of the trip. As part of my exploration of cruises from Mumbai I came across a Silversea sailing. Mumbai to HK on the Silver Moon, 32 days total for a lower cost than 24 days divided between the Millennium and Solstice. The price was lower for a longer sailing and included excursion and transportation! I booked it. 

 

Then I started reading the Silversea board on CC and had some concerns re: smaller ship, dress code, etc. So I booked a 7 day Silversea sailing for October of 2022 in the Adriatic, that would proceed my already booked Celebrity Edge (Med) and Reflection (TA) sailings, to try out Silversea. We (my spouse and I) loved the Silversea experience and now have 100 days booked on Silversea - gets us free laundry and a 5% discount on future sailings! This past summer we went on a Silversea sailing around Iceland, 10 days with 9 ports and included excursions. That trip was cheaper than our 7 day Millennium sailing last winter in the Caribbean and in confirmed what we enjoyed about Silversea.

 

What to like about Silversea? No hierarchal  system, all staterooms receive multiple bottles of liquor if desired, at least 3 sit-down restaurants open for lunch including port days, no art sales, longer stays in ports, no lines to speak of, great staff, more public space per passenger so no crowed areas, and I could go on...

 

It really depends what one enjoys about travel and cruising. The dress code on Silversea is more formal by far but is easy to work around - however one must bring at least a sport coat and tie to fit in. The larger ships do have much more grand style entertainment, a larger casino, and more stuff happening all the time. We have sailed quite a bit on Celebrity and really do not go to the nightly shows anymore. The smaller casino is fine for me. We enjoy venues with small scale musical performers and both companies supply that. Food is subjective but the basic proteins are higher quality on Silversea and they will prepare special dishes if requested as will Celebrity. The included alcohol is higher end and more variety on Silversea. French Champaign delivered to your cabin every day - no problem, can I have caviar with the Champaign? - how much would you like?... All things we enjoy with exceptional service yet I do still have concerns with booking a trip with many sea days on the smaller ship. I did book a transpacific for 2025 so I guess I'll find out.

 

The included excursions are described in much more detail than Celebrity gives. They are of smaller size also, the bus that can hold 48 passengers typically will have 20 or so. The excursions with Silversea, that I have been on, do not spend time at a remote location to go shopping at a cruise company owned store. A step up from the Celebrity paid excursions but not as nice as a customized one. 

 

Did I cancel any of my Celebrity bookings after sailing Silversea?? No. I have always enjoyed my Celebrity cruises, but because of their pricing I tried another line and had my eyes opened to see what is currently available for the same cost as Celebrity. I will be booking Regent and Seabourn in the future - and Celebrity as desired.

 

 

 

 

Thanks for your perspective.    Like many others we are doing some shopping around.   We will continue to cruise on Celebrity but instead of have 10+ future cruises booked with them we are down to 4.  

Really finding Silver Seas, Oceania and Seaborne interesting in the limited research I've done so far. 

Posts like your, reinforce we are looking in the right direction.

 

[Jim_Iain]

6 hours ago, MagPie60 said:

Might just be one of the most pompous things I have ever read. 🙄

 

To all those that feel the same.   CC has a really nice feature called Ignore List -   You can add people by clicking drop down to right of your face icon.  

When a troll finds no one sees their rude or condescending remarks they will move on to a new forum.

[Dolebludger]

I suspect that Celebrity is currently keeping its Retreat suites (at all levels) fairly full on current cruises, because those suites were booked before the fare increases and cuts in service. In future months, this may not be the case. When and if that happens, Celebrity will have to make some changes to fill what will be vacant space. But for now, those who feel that the present costs and inclusions on Retreat cruises are not competitive (and there seem to be many) will do best by checking out the competition.

[billc23]

17 hours ago, Dolebludger said:

I suspect that Celebrity is currently keeping its Retreat suites (at all levels) fairly full on current cruises, because those suites were booked before the fare increases and cuts in service. In future months, this may not be the case. When and if that happens, Celebrity will have to make some changes to fill what will be vacant space. But for now, those who feel that the present costs and inclusions on Retreat cruises are not competitive (and there seem to be many) will do best by checking out the competition.

I think they are full from the move up program. I'm on a Jan sailing on the Ascent. Three weeks ago, there were many open suites from IC, PH, on down to SS. Now there are very few listed. I doubt they all sold last minute. Passengers on the roll call are discussing their move up suite bargains. Those who initially paid full price for the suite only saw the price increase on the website - makes one feel better than if the cabin you are in is now severely discounted. 

 

I would like to know how many suites are filled by the move up program. I was on the Flora at the end of September 2023 and was the only upper suite passenger who was not there because of the move up program. I have more data points but it is all anecdotal from my experience. It would be interesting to know the hard data. As I posted before, I think Celebrity does financially better by keeping suite prices high and filling those that don't sell via the move up program. 

[CruiseRQA]

18 hours ago, Dolebludger said:

I suspect that Celebrity is currently keeping its Retreat suites (at all levels) fairly full on current cruises, because those suites were booked before the fare increases and cuts in service. In future months, this may not be the case. When and if that happens, Celebrity will have to make some changes to fill what will be vacant space. 

Don't judge future bookings based on what you are reading here.   Look at RCCL corporate financials.  They have record bookings on the books for 2024. 

[RichYak]

15 minutes ago, CruiseRQA said:

Don't judge future bookings based on what you are reading here.   Look at RCCL corporate financials.  They have record bookings on the books for 2024. 

Record bookings by what metric? They have more ships than they’ve ever had before so even lackluster bookings can result in new records. 

[SusieAV8R]

1 hour ago, CruiseRQA said:

Don't judge future bookings based on what you are reading here.   Look at RCCL corporate financials.  They have record bookings on the books for 2024. 

Totally agree with you CruiseRQA!!  (And look at the suite bookings in 2025/2026 where the deposit is large and non-refundable!)  

[Dolebludger]

Oh, I’m sure that X cruises will be pretty much full for most (if not all) of 2024. Many booked those cruises well before the fare increases, and X’s T&Cs won’t allow them a full refund (if any) to cancel because of service and perk cuts. So they go on the cruise. Many book a year or so in advance, so we can’t expect bookings to fall off as early as 2024. And even if fall-off in bookings don’t force X to correct things (or if they don’t happen) I have no problem. There are other lines I can book with better services and inclusions than X is providing now, and for less money.

[CruiseRQA]

2 hours ago, RichYak said:

Record bookings by what metric? They have more ships than they’ve ever had before so even lackluster bookings can result in new records. 

From the latest Value Line report on the company:

 

Record demand and pricing levels remained the main drivers of the strong performance in the June period. Booking volume has continued to increase and is significantly higher compared to 2019 and at record high prices ... booking volume for 2024 is up significantly compared to all previous years and at record high prices.

[Lena11033]

But with these bookings, do they include the credits from covid which people had to do a booking by a certain time?

Because I remember people having to use them (I managed to get my money back from covid but I know a lot had credits)

[t18c97]

Just like Disney and their parks, as long as people are coming we’ll keep raising prices.

[terrydtx]

3 hours ago, billc23 said:

I think they are full from the move up program. I'm on a Jan sailing on the Ascent. Three weeks ago, there were many open suites from IC, PH, on down to SS. Now there are very few listed. I doubt they all sold last minute. Passengers on the roll call are discussing their move up suite bargains. Those who initially paid full price for the suite only saw the price increase on the website - makes one feel better than if the cabin you are in is now severely discounted. 

 

I would like to know how many suites are filled by the move up program. I was on the Flora at the end of September 2023 and was the only upper suite passenger who was not there because of the move up program. I have more data points but it is all anecdotal from my experience. It would be interesting to know the hard data. As I posted before, I think Celebrity does financially better by keeping suite prices high and filling those that don't sell via the move up program. 

Our Jan 25th cruise on the Edge had 35 unbooked suites 3 weeks ago, after the many move up offers were accepted the suites are now all sold out. Some in our roll calls got move up bids from standard IV verandah cabins to Sky Suites for less than $1200pp, that is one hell of a deal compared to what we paid for our SS,.

[terrydtx]

3 hours ago, billc23 said:

I think they are full from the move up program. I'm on a Jan sailing on the Ascent. Three weeks ago, there were many open suites from IC, PH, on down to SS. Now there are very few listed. I doubt they all sold last minute. Passengers on the roll call are discussing their move up suite bargains. Those who initially paid full price for the suite only saw the price increase on the website - makes one feel better than if the cabin you are in is now severely discounted. 

 

I would like to know how many suites are filled by the move up program. I was on the Flora at the end of September 2023 and was the only upper suite passenger who was not there because of the move up program. I have more data points but it is all anecdotal from my experience. It would be interesting to know the hard data. As I posted before, I think Celebrity does financially better by keeping suite prices high and filling those that don't sell via the move up program. 

Our Jan 25th cruise on the Edge had 35 unbooked suites 3 weeks ago, after the many move up offers were accepted the suites are now all sold out. Some in our roll calls got move up bids from standard IV verandah cabins to Sky Suites for less than $1200pp, that is one hell of a deal compared to what we paid for our SS,.

[Dolebludger]

Here’s my point. Yes, X will continue to raise fares and reduce inclusions as long as people will pay what they demand for what they offer. And for a basic, ala carte mass market type cruise, X’s prices are still competitive and attractive. But for a lux cruise (formerly available in the Retreat) X is not competitive with lux lines. Compared with Silversea, Regent, Seaborne, and possibly others, X Retreat is now higher in cost for less. Perhaps X wants to abandon the lux market, IDK. But what I do know is that is what X is doing. 
 

And many of us Retreat cruisers do not want to take a chance on some “move up” program. We might get a good deal on suite class, but we don’t want the risk of being stuck in accommodations and services we don’t want if the “move up” program doesn’t work out for us. 

Edited January 8 by Dolebludger

[CHEZMARYLOU]

We opted not to pay the high Retreat prices for a Canada/New England cruise in 2025 and cancelled our open passages. We will take the December 2024 Beyond cruise but have no Celebrity plans after that. 

[Frenchkona]

On 1/6/2024 at 2:41 PM, terrydtx said:

We booked the RC cruise because we wanted to try something different too and then decided it wasn't going to be better. At the time not having a butler on RC was a big deal that now is no longer with a SS.,

 

[Dolebludger]

In response, not having a butler is no big deal IF room stewards are charged with the duties butlers perform on X AND are assigned few enough suites to be able to perform the increased suite duties. That’s how it works on Regent. Anything you’d ask a butler for on X you can ask the steward for on Regent — and get it. There are a few super upper level suites on Regent that are additionally assigned butlers. But the consensus is that they are really not needed. Our experience on X in the Retreat in the past was that the stewards were only there to make up and clean the rooms. So there, butlers are needed. Not so on Regent and other lines in this category.

[CruiseRQA]

2 hours ago, Lena11033 said:

But with these bookings, do they include the credits from covid which people had to do a booking by a certain time?

Because I remember people having to use them (I managed to get my money back from covid but I know a lot had credits)

Here is the annual revenue for RCL from 2013-2024.   Obviously a huge drop in 2020 and 2021.  But record revenue expected this year and again next year.  I assume revenue is accrued in the year RCL receives payment.   If I were an investor, I would be pleased with how they have navigated a catastrophic event.

 

2013 7959.9

2014 8073.9

2015 8299.1

2016 8496.4

2017 8777.8

2018 9493.8

2019 10951

2020 2208.8 

2021 1532.1

2022 8840.5

2023 13800

2024 15500 (projected)

[RichYak]

1 hour ago, Dolebludger said:

not having a butler is no big deal IF room stewards are charged with the duties butlers perform on X

They're not, they're just housekeeping. 

[Dolebludger]

Rich, I know stewards on X are only housekeeping. They do much more on Regent and some other lines. That’s why, to many of us, there is a gap in desired services when there is no butler on X.