On Carnival, if a sailing starts/ends in Sydney & goes NZ, if you disembark in NZ, do you violate the PVSA & pay a $900 fine?

[NutsAboutGolf]

On our upcoming spring sailing, we booked 1.5 years ago, I realized I did not have enough vacation days and my company would not let me go negative; my request for an exception was denied (lol).  Therefore, to go on this cruise, we would need to disembark on the last port day in NZ and fly home from there.  I called Carnival, and they simply said it was a violation of PVSA which I didn't realize was because it's two different countries, they said they discouraged this and said we should be expecting to receive an almost $900 fine which we're going to pay.  Are there any other consequences besides the fine?  Carnival wouldn't ban us?  The rep's supervisor told me they couldn't find any other information

[ColeThornton]

I'm no expert in maritime law but doesn't the PVSA only apply to the U.S?   I don't see where Aus/NZ would even matter for that.

[shof515]

The rep is wrong. PVSA is only for US sailings, it has no effects in other country's. 

 

not the first time carnival reps give out wrong incorrect information 

[dallasdan]

Just tell them you have a family emergency and need to disembark.

[NutsAboutGolf]

1 hour ago, shof515 said:

The rep is wrong. PVSA is only for US sailings, it has no effects in other country's. 

 

not the first time carnival reps give out wrong incorrect information 

 

Thanks, I did question the rep who said it was an international maritime act.  After researching, it's an US only act

[BlerkOne]

PVSA doesn't apply, but I have no idea if Australia has a similar law.

[1025cruise]

The US PVSA does not apply, but there might be a similar law in Aus/NZ.

It could also be that Carnival is just not allowing this, period.

[Elaine5715]

If Carnival gets a fine, they will pass it to you.  

[chengkp75]

Australia does have cabotage laws, but the OP is wanting to start a cruise in one country and end in another, so it is not a "domestic" or "coastwise" voyage for either Australia or New Zealand.

 

OP, whenever a customer service rep starts to talk about maritime laws, ask to speak to the "compliance department", as this is where the lawyers are, and they will give you the straight answer.  The statements about the fine are just rubbish.

[Eli_6]

I don't know about with respect to New Zealand but I have definitely seen people disembark not at the final destination on Europe cruises.

 

With that said, New Zealand has some unusual laws so I think you need to check out their laws ahead of time and make sure that you can even do this.  I don't think Carnival would be the issue...I think it would be NZ. You may even need a Visa.  I know I looked into stopping over in NZ in 2022ish on the way to Australia (we ended up not going) and there was all sorts of rules and regulations, but it may have been due to Covid. 

 

I also once watched several hours of a show about NZ border control and they were super strict  Lots of people denied entry. Very entertaining show, too.  One woman tried to sneak her cat into the country and the woman got sent back to the US, fined, and the cat got put down. Another little girl had a home taxidermied road kill animal and they took it from her to make sure it wasn't an endangered species.  She ended up getting it back, but they had to bring in some specialist to determine if it was a certain species of whatever type of animal it was before they gave it back to her.  It was the funniest looking thing I had ever seen.  The girl had given it buttons for eyes and put a dress on it.  It was a little Australian girl.  The border control also said that it wasn't the first time she had bought home taxidermied items through NZ.

Edited September 14, 2023 by Eli_6

[ProgRockCruiser]

The OP will need to apply for a NZeTA (electronic Visa), assuming they are a US citizen, if they intend to stay off the ship.

 

This is what the official NZ site says (my bold):

 

Arriving in New Zealand by cruise ship

When you arrive at your first New Zealand port you will be deemed to hold a visitor visa. This expires 28 days after the ship arrives at its first port of entry in New Zealand or when the ship leaves — whichever happens first.

We will check you meet our entry permission requirements and are of good character.

ARRIVING IN NEW ZEALAND

If you are staying on in New Zealand

If you leave your cruise to fly home, or to stay on in New Zealand, you need to apply for a visa and entry permission by completing an arrival card and presenting it to an immigration officer at the port.

You must show evidence of your onward travel arrangements such as a ticket for your flight out of New Zealand.

 

Start here for further info:

 

https://www.newzealand.com/us/visas-and-immigration/

[NutsAboutGolf]

9 hours ago, chengkp75 said:

Australia does have cabotage laws, but the OP is wanting to start a cruise in one country and end in another, so it is not a "domestic" or "coastwise" voyage for either Australia or New Zealand.

 

OP, whenever a customer service rep starts to talk about maritime laws, ask to speak to the "compliance department", as this is where the lawyers are, and they will give you the straight answer.  The statements about the fine are just rubbish.

 

Thanks!  What's your opinion of receiving advanced permission from Carnival vs telling them there's an emergency once on board (which is true, if I don't get home I could be fired, lol)?

[NutsAboutGolf]

1 hour ago, ProgRockCruiser said:

The OP will need to apply for a NZeTA (electronic Visa), assuming they are a US citizen, if they intend to stay off the ship.

 

This is what the official NZ site says (my bold):

 

Arriving in New Zealand by cruise ship

When you arrive at your first New Zealand port you will be deemed to hold a visitor visa. This expires 28 days after the ship arrives at its first port of entry in New Zealand or when the ship leaves — whichever happens first.

We will check you meet our entry permission requirements and are of good character.

ARRIVING IN NEW ZEALAND

If you are staying on in New Zealand

If you leave your cruise to fly home, or to stay on in New Zealand, you need to apply for a visa and entry permission by completing an arrival card and presenting it to an immigration officer at the port.

You must show evidence of your onward travel arrangements such as a ticket for your flight out of New Zealand.

 

Start here for further info:

 

https://www.newzealand.com/us/visas-and-immigration/

 

Thanks!  I did see this page but thought I was covered as the flight departs before the ship.  A visa's only $11 USD so we'll just apply for one.  While I don't think this makes any difference, the flight has two segments, a connecting domestic of NZ to NZ and then NZ to the US

[chengkp75]

28 minutes ago, NutsAboutGolf said:

 

Thanks!  What's your opinion of receiving advanced permission from Carnival vs telling them there's an emergency once on board (which is true, if I don't get home I could be fired, lol)?

I'm never an advocate of lying.  They cannot keep you onboard if you want to get off.  The absolute most they could do is place an "innkeeper's lien", which would preclude you from leaving with your luggage until the bill is paid, which is easy enough to do at the time.  Giving them the advance warning that you intend to do this will go a long way in how your disembarkation process goes.  If they know in advance, they can have customs and immigration waiting, and likely not charge you for it, whereas if you just try to walk off, they can hold you until customs and immigration are called, and arrive, and then they would likely pass the additional charge to you.

 

As I've said, contact Carnival's "compliance department" for clearance to do this, from a legal standpoint.  Don't work with customer service reps, or guest services.

[ProgRockCruiser]

23 hours ago, NutsAboutGolf said:

I realized I did not have enough vacation days and my company would not let me go negative; my request for an exception was denied (lol). 

Not sure what company you work for, but many companies allow "Leave Without Pay", or LWOP.  Your profile says you live in SoCal, which should have labor laws to "assist" in such accommodations - at least better than the rest of the US - well, maybe Massachusetts would be best.

[NutsAboutGolf]

25 minutes ago, ProgRockCruiser said:

Not sure what company you work for, but many companies allow "Leave Without Pay", or LWOP.  Your profile says you live in SoCal, which should have labor laws to "assist" in such accommodations - at least better than the rest of the US - well, maybe Massachusetts would be best.

 

When your job position (not the person) is funded by the Gov't there are requirements including the number of vacation days.  There are exceptions like maternal, medical, bereavement, etc., yet they all require supporting documentation.  Yes, we are required to submit bereavement supporting documentation as evidence of a loss; while this may sound unusual, some airlines also require documentation to receive the discounted bereavement fare.  Of course, if you have enough vacation days, you could use them on these exceptions and wouldn't need to submit documentation

 

[NutsAboutGolf]

1 hour ago, chengkp75 said:

I'm never an advocate of lying.  They cannot keep you onboard if you want to get off.  The absolute most they could do is place an "innkeeper's lien", which would preclude you from leaving with your luggage until the bill is paid, which is easy enough to do at the time.  Giving them the advance warning that you intend to do this will go a long way in how your disembarkation process goes.  If they know in advance, they can have customs and immigration waiting, and likely not charge you for it, whereas if you just try to walk off, they can hold you until customs and immigration are called, and arrive, and then they would likely pass the additional charge to you.

 

As I've said, contact Carnival's "compliance department" for clearance to do this, from a legal standpoint.  Don't work with customer service reps, or guest services.

 

Thanks again.  Just a FYI, called three times as there wasn't a wait, and they were all consistent in saying you have to email carnival care, you cannot talk to them on the phone and also they do not have a direct email.  They also were clueless to what the "compliance" was but understood when I said legal.  I made the mistake on the first one by answering their question of why I was calling.  Received the response "oh no, you can't do that, you have to continue on to Sydney" (lol).  I guess I'll email Carnival Care asking for legal's email because I know if I ask to get off early carnival care will just say "you can't" without ever involving legal 

[Relaxing Robbies]

There are no legal problems with cruises embarking Australia or New Zealand and disembarking in the other country. Although Carnival do not offer these one way cruises, several other cruiselines including Princess and Holland America do offer some.  I imagine that getting approval from Carnival may depend on the  port where you wish to disembark. These one way cruises normally start or terminate in Auckland, so getting immigration or customs clearance there would probably not present a problem. Hopefully your last port is not Bay of Islands, which is a tender port and a small place where customs/immigration would not normally be available.

[stobe1]

On 9/13/2023 at 3:18 PM, NutsAboutGolf said:

On our upcoming spring sailing, we booked 1.5 years ago, I realized I did not have enough vacation days and my company would not let me go negative; my request for an exception was denied (lol).  Therefore, to go on this cruise, we would need to disembark on the last port day in NZ and fly home from there.  I called Carnival, and they simply said it was a violation of PVSA which I didn't realize was because it's two different countries, they said they discouraged this and said we should be expecting to receive an almost $900 fine which we're going to pay.  Are there any other consequences besides the fine?  Carnival wouldn't ban us?  The rep's supervisor told me they couldn't find any other information

 

If you truly are at risk of being terminated for missing a few extra days at work due to an extended vacation and you truly value your job, I would just scrap the vacation completely. That is an expensive and potentially complicated prospect to cut your already expensive vacation short.

 

I don't know if your company's vacation policy is "use it or lose it" system or if you can "bank" vacation days for the following year, but if you can bank them, just cancel and rebook for the following year so you can actually enjoy your vacation and not spend it stressing over making it home in time. If you can't bank them then just book another cruise closer to home if you are intent on cruising.  

 

Just my 2 cents. Of course, that advice is worth what you paid for it.

Edited September 16, 2023 by stobe1

[nwcruiselover]

I tried to arrange this one time, and Carnival was adamant that they don't allow this. They called it a downline debarkation and said it's not permitted, period. I escalated the issue clear up to the chairman's office. Same answer at every level.