Is NCL headed in the right direction with the Prima/Leonardo class of ships?

[IAcruising]

2 minutes ago, graphicguy said:

MSC….Have sailed them a couple of times.  

 

 

Haven't gone there yet, but when I hit Platinum with NCL next April, I may try them if they're still "matching" status.

 

From what I've heard, read, seen, MSC doesn't quite yet "get" the American market. But they've got a shipload of money. They will get there eventually.

 

 

 

[omahabob]

It isn't really a ship size thing. It's mainly a space utilization thing. The difference in capacity is only 20%, but they took many venues or areas that were already crowded and reduced them in size, even after factoring in the reduction in passenger capacity. The premise was that passengers would spread out into a greater number of smaller areas or venues, but it turns out that wasn't the case. So the previously crowded spaces just became even more crowded, and harder to use. The total space is proportional to the ship capacity, but folks just didn't spread out into those spaces like NCL envisioned.

[RD64]

Perhaps a bit of European edge is something the American market could use…

[IAcruising]

13 minutes ago, omahabob said:

So the previously crowded spaces just became even more crowded, and harder to use. The total space is proportional to the ship capacity, but folks just didn't spread out into those spaces like NCL envisioned.

 

This is absolutely true. And I hope gets addressed in future versions of Prima class ships.

 

[IAcruising]

15 minutes ago, RD64 said:

Perhaps a bit of European edge is something the American market could use…

 

Americans be Americans. Good luck with that. 🤣

 

[stinkyharriet]

I liked the Prima and would sail on her again despite the fact that my first trip could have been better.  We went in early April, out of NYC, during one of the weeks that many schools all over had off.  The week after our sailing seemed to be the same.  There were around 1,200 kids on my sailing and they just ran wild.  When I was sitting at the whiskey bar on embarkation day, a little girl came inside to tell her father what other kids were doing.  She said they were all jumping up & down on the glass walkway as hard as they could, trying to break it.  Because the ship was extremely full, space did seem tight in many places.  I didn’t really mind the layout of the ship.  With all of the eating & drinking I did having an excuse to do more walking was welcome!

 

We did always manage to find a place to hang out in various bars and they weren’t always crowded.  If it had been warmer out I do think all of the kids taking over the pools would have bothered me, but I decided I wasn’t going in the water (it was around 50 degrees when we left NYC).  I loved my Ocean View cabin on deck 5.  It was large, it was quiet, it was an easy walk via stairs to decks 6-7-8.  Again, since it was cooler weather we weren’t going up to the lido deck much.  When we did take the elevator getting on at deck 5 meant they were usually empty.

 

I would go on Prima (and Viva) again as long as it’s not during a school holiday, and preferably in warmer weather.

[IAcruising]

22 minutes ago, stinkyharriet said:

We went in early April, out of NYC, during one of the weeks that many schools all over had off.   There were around 1,200 kids on my sailing and they just ran wild.  

 

Didn't need to read any more than that. Don't do that again. 🙂

[graphicguy]

2 hours ago, IAcruising said:

 

Haven't gone there yet, but when I hit Platinum with NCL next April, I may try them if they're still "matching" status.

 

From what I've heard, read, seen, MSC doesn't quite yet "get" the American market. But they've got a shipload of money. They will get there eventually.

 

 

 

Depends if they’re tying the shipping P&L to the cruising P&L.  My guess is they’re separate.  And, they launched into North America a year or so before COVID! 

 

And, with new ships, no less!  I don’t think they’re operationally profitable, but that’s just a guess!

[IAcruising]

41 minutes ago, graphicguy said:

 I don’t think they’re operationally profitable, but that’s just a guess!

 

I have no information to dispute this. But cash is cash. If it's available in one company, it's available to a subsidiary. 

 

MSC is pushing very hard. Time will tell.

 

[RD64]

I have no information to dispute it either, but MSC is the market leader in Europe - I would venture to guess that they are at the very least making an operational profit. In addition they are the market leader in South America (where they decimated the Costa brand), the Middle East, and South Africa. Globally they know what they are doing - the US seems to be a bit of a struggle - because as a previous  poster said “Americans be Americans” and they want that Carnival / RCL experience - and shake their heads at something that is remotely foreign. 

[IAcruising]

21 minutes ago, RD64 said:

the US seems to be a bit of a struggle - because as a previous  poster said “Americans be Americans” and they want that Carnival / RCL experience - and shake their heads at something that is remotely foreign. 

 

Absolutely true. If you want to thrive in the Caribbean, you better serve what Americans expect.

 

In Europe, as an American, I have no such expectations. Europe be Europe. I would expect nothing less.

 

[graphicguy]

13 hours ago, IAcruising said:

 

I have no information to dispute this. But cash is cash. If it's available in one company, it's available to a subsidiary. 

 

MSC is pushing very hard. Time will tell.

 

Doesn't quite work that way.

 

Having spent my career in the tech sector, with multi-billion conglomerates and start ups, each division is "sink or swim" operationally.  You can lose money for a quarter, maybe 2, rarely 3.  If the division can't make it on its own, 99% of the time it's either sold off or liquidated.

 

MSC's bread and butter is shipping.  They have a nice little (relatively speaking) cruise business, mainly in Europe.  It's unfortunate that the pandemic hit when it did.  But, if they're good corporate managers, they will not let the much smaller cruise business drag on their main shipping business.

 

 

Just looked again at a couple of MSC fares into early next year.  I'm not seeing anything that would make me want to book them.  And, while I didn't shop the fares a lot, none if them popped out at me as being less than NCL.

 

I want to book them.  Their "status match" has me at their highest level "Diamond".  Not sure all that nets me, but that match expires this year.  So, wouldn't mind keeping it.  But, not at the cost of doing a cruise that doesn't compare favorably with what I'm used to.

 

I want them to succeed.  I think competition is good in any industry.  But, at first they were "buying" the passengers.  That's not sustainable.  Now, they're just another cruise option.

[schmoopie17]

On 9/16/2023 at 7:57 PM, JIMESOPUS said:

a neutral color scheme throughout the ship drives me crazy.

 

Ditto...beige, beige and even more beige.

 

And whoever designed the Local on the Prima needs to be fired. The bar situation, placed in a narrow main passageway, is atrocious, The crowds at that bar are overwhelming the bar staff. And people passing by who decide to belly up to an already crowded bar make it worse. And the dining area has nothing going for it...no personality...just a room stuffed with tables (with hinging lights that I kept banging my head on), 

 

Edited September 18, 2023 by schmoopie17

[aubreyc1988]

I haven't sailed NCL in two years and miss it. Been on Royal because of their MUCH better casino program. I do have some NCL stock and it is doing so poorly 😞 Hopefully things turn around for them. 

 

I am thinking my first Prima class ship will most likely be the third ship in the fleet. I really want to get to Diamond+ on Royal before I go back to NCL and still have another year or so before that happens. 

 

One thing I'm more concerned about with NCL is where they are cutting costs. IMHO, I'd much prefer food cost cutting to entertainment cost cutting. I can always pay a little bit more to eat at a specialty, but entertainment is really important to me and Royal exceeds NCL there. 

 

Also, for those who have sailed recently, how has the bartenders/drink quality been? It's DREADFUL on Royal and the unique bars and drink menu/bartenders/barservice is something I think NCL was doing really well in the past. 

Edited September 18, 2023 by aubreyc1988

[Capitan Obvious]

Misinformation indeed, on that we agree.

 

18 hours ago, UKstages said:

you said there is no water slide on the prima. i said in my response to post #17 that indeed there is. It’s called the wave.

 

I certainly did not say that they was no water slide on the Prima. To be blunt, this is an outright lie. Another poster stated that the Prima had water slides that went through and around balconies. My response simply stated that the slides the other poster was referring to were NOT water slides. This is quite different than what you have accused me of saying. There is a water slide on the Prima, however it is not one of the slides that "goes through and around balconies". Will you apologize for your false accusation?

 

18 hours ago, UKstages said:

as for slides being adjacent to or in close proximity to balconies, this is also true. One of those slides is in fact the wave.

 

Again, this is false. The wave does not operate adjacent to or in close proximity to balconies. Here is a photo of the wave:

 

The wave operates on the forward area of decks 19, 18, and 17...no balconies anywhere nearby.

 

18 hours ago, UKstages said:

as for four slides, here again, i honestly have no idea what you’re talking about. where do you believe these other two slides are located?

 

Well, we've already discussed the wave...which means that there are THREE additional slides on the Prima.

 

One of those is found on the port side of the ship:

 

The other two slides are located on the starboard side of the ship:

 

Easy to see as one is painted white, and the other is painted blue. Two separate and distinct entrances at the top, and two separate and distinct exits at the bottom.

 

Four slides. Not two. Three dry and one wet. Each of the three that goes "around and through balcony areas" is a dry slide, NOT a water slide...which is exactly what I said in the first place.

 

 

Also...In past ship construction, when there were width changes in the super structure, the ending balconies were cut at an angle (resulting in what everyone refers to as "angled balconies"). You will notice in the photos above that the ending balconies are squared off and not angled. This extra added footage is the area used for the slides. If the slides were not there, these balconies would be angled and these area would not exist...thus, nothing was "taken away" from a cabin's balcony.

 

 

 

Edited September 18, 2023 by Capitan Obvious

[Cruising Lynne]

2 hours ago, schmoopie17 said:

 

Ditto...beige, beige and even more beige.

 

And whoever designed the Local on the Prima needs to be fired. The bar situation, placed in a narrow main passageway, is atrocious, The crowds at that bar are overwhelming the bar staff. And people passing by who decide to belly up to an already crowded bar make it worse. And the dining area has nothing going for it...no personality...just a room stuffed with tables (with hinging lights that I kept banging my head on), 

 

I hope they redesign The Local on future builds. The bar area has some interesting seating and some swing chairs. It didn't really bother me. What I did not like was the dining area. The tables were too close together. One time we were seated near the door to the waterfront, and it was really annoying any time the door opened. The other time we had a table further in, but it was very close to the next table. I don't know how the staff managed to get through with the food when it was busy in there. 

 

2 hours ago, aubreyc1988 said:

I haven't sailed NCL in two years and miss it. Been on Royal because of their MUCH better casino program. I do have some NCL stock and it is doing so poorly 😞 Hopefully things turn around for them. 

 

I am thinking my first Prima class ship will most likely be the third ship in the fleet. I really want to get to Diamond+ on Royal before I go back to NCL and still have another year or so before that happens. 

 

One thing I'm more concerned about with NCL is where they are cutting costs. IMHO, I'd much prefer food cost cutting to entertainment cost cutting. I can always pay a little bit more to eat at a specialty, but entertainment is really important to me and Royal exceeds NCL there. 

 

Also, for those who have sailed recently, how has the bartenders/drink quality been? It's DREADFUL on Royal and the unique bars and drink menu/bartenders/barservice is something I think NCL was doing really well in the past. 

I think that you would like the bar set up on Prima. They have the bar with the unique sustainable drinks, and another bar that made special bottled drinks. The bottled drinks were made fresh and put into small glass bottles. They weren't premade sealed bottles from a factory. I did not discover them until late in our trip. Many bars to try on Prima. There is even one up by the speedway that I liked. No problem with the service except at the atrium bar. It is too small as it also services the casino. Another thing that I hope they fix on future builds.

 

I hope that NCL does not cut out all the Broadway shows. The shows were always something that I liked about NCL. Entertainment on board is a big reason why I choose cruising over other types of vacations. They best not screw that up!

Edited September 18, 2023 by Cruising Lynne

[CruiseMH]

22 hours ago, JIMESOPUS said:

Agree on the size but double occupancy number is always subjective.

 

GRT and double occuppancy are the best facts to compare ships regarding its size.

They are of course not perfect because they don`t say anything about the amount of public space on the ship.(which is the part of the ship most passengers use most of the time)

But the only thing i wanted to point out is that the Prima and the Jewel are far away from being the same size,they are not even close. 😉

 

[graphicguy]

5 hours ago, aubreyc1988 said:

I haven't sailed NCL in two years and miss it. Been on Royal because of their MUCH better casino program. I do have some NCL stock and it is doing so poorly 😞 Hopefully things turn around for them. 

 

I am thinking my first Prima class ship will most likely be the third ship in the fleet. I really want to get to Diamond+ on Royal before I go back to NCL and still have another year or so before that happens. 

 

One thing I'm more concerned about with NCL is where they are cutting costs. IMHO, I'd much prefer food cost cutting to entertainment cost cutting. I can always pay a little bit more to eat at a specialty, but entertainment is really important to me and Royal exceeds NCL there. 

 

Also, for those who have sailed recently, how has the bartenders/drink quality been? It's DREADFUL on Royal and the unique bars and drink menu/bartenders/barservice is something I think NCL was doing really well in the past. 

Was on the Bliss this past Spring.  Bar service was very good.  Nothing missing that I can tell.  That said, I'm not a wine drinker.  But, they had Buffalo Trace, so I was happy.  They had Blue Moon Beer.  Double happy.

 

Oh, and the bartenders in the Observation Lounge kept me well hydrated.

[fstuff1]

The problem with the Prima casino bar is that it's out in the open, right next to the music events.

It gets mobbed.

 

They should have put it inside the casino area like other class ships

Edited September 18, 2023 by fstuff1

[stinkyharriet]

1 hour ago, fstuff1 said:

The problem with the Prima casino bar is that it's out in the open, right next to the music events.

It gets mobbed.

 

They should have put it inside the casino area like other class ships

I think the bar on The Joy is also outside the casino and it too was packed all the time.  We found that the drinks seemed strongest there so we dealt with the crowds!

[fstuff1]

16 hours ago, stinkyharriet said:

I think the bar on The Joy is also outside the casino and it too was packed all the time.  We found that the drinks seemed strongest there so we dealt with the crowds!

The bar on the joy (and other ncl mega ships) are in the casino area.

It's right next to the aft elevator.

 

But the main difference between them and the prima is that there's no other venue competing for service with the gamblers.

On the prima, the usual atrium venues (music, trivia, etc)  is right next to the casino bar so I found service (on avg) is  slower for gamblers than the other mega ships.

 

There's no space in the actual atrium to hold events because there are revenue generators (ie: Starbucks + shops) there taking up lots of space.

So mgmt set up the small space 1 floor down at the area next to the casino bar as an ad hoc atrium venue with all folding chairs.

(When I was there in 2022.)

 

So basically the casino bar doubled as the atrium bar. :(

Edited September 19, 2023 by fstuff1

[Capitan Obvious]

25 minutes ago, fstuff1 said:

The bar on the joy (and other ncl mega ships) are in the casino area.

It's right next to the aft elevator.

 

But the main difference between them and the prima is that there's no other venue competing for service with the gamblers.

On the prima, the usual atrium venues (music, trivia, etc)  is right next to the casino bar so I found service (on avg) is  slower for gamblers than the other mega ships.

 

There's no space in the actual atrium to hold events because there are revenue generators (ie: Starbucks + shops) there taking up lots of space.

So mgmt set up the small space 1 floor down at the area next to the casino bar as an ad hoc atrium venue with all folding chairs.

(When I was there in 2022.)

 

So basically the casino bar doubled as the atrium bar. 😞

 

To be honest, you are correct that on the NCL mega ships there is a bar next to the aft elevators for the casino. This venue exists on the Prima as well...it is called the Belvedere Bar, and it is right next to the aft elevators/stairs at the aft end of the casino.

 

The bar you are (incorrectly) calling the casino bar is actually the Penrose Bar and since it is located in the Penrose Atrium, it means that this is the Atrium bar, not the casino bar.

[fstuff1]

19 minutes ago, Capitan Obvious said:

To be honest, you are correct that on the NCL mega ships there is a bar next to the aft elevators for the casino. This venue exists on the Prima as well...it is called the Belvedere Bar, and it is right next to the aft elevators/stairs at the aft end of the casino.

 

The bar you are (incorrectly) calling the casino bar is actually the Penrose Bar and since it is located in the Penrose Atrium, it means that this is the Atrium bar, not the casino bar.

yes it is the casino bar.

On NCL, there's only 1 bar on the entire ship that accepts the casino's free drinks card and that's the casino bar.

Your Penrose bar is the only place that accepts it on the Prima. (unless they changed it since was in there in 2022.)

 

So thank you for confirming that the casino bar also doubles as the atrium venue bar.

 

Edited September 19, 2023 by fstuff1

[BirdTravels]

51 minutes ago, Capitan Obvious said:

 

To be honest, you are correct that on the NCL mega ships there is a bar next to the aft elevators for the casino. This venue exists on the Prima as well...it is called the Belvedere Bar, and it is right next to the aft elevators/stairs at the aft end of the casino.

 

The bar you are (incorrectly) calling the casino bar is actually the Penrose Bar and since it is located in the Penrose Atrium, it means that this is the Atrium bar, not the casino bar.

Incorrect. The Casino Bar is the Atrium Penrose Bar on the Prima. That is the Casino Bar. 
 

It would be great if they designated Belvedere bar as the Casino Bar, but they didn’t.
 

There are hundreds of casino guests on every cruise that get perks at the Casino Bar. And it is stupid to be fighting the music lovers to get those perks. (E.g., bottle waters (flow, aqua pans, San Peligrino), energy drinks, sports drinks, and Plus-level drinks (>$15) with a black casino card. 
 

Pre-pandemic, upwards of 25% of the adult guests on some cruises were casino guest. Every 4th cabin walking down the hall was getting a comp’ed or discounted room through the casino (CAS or Land Based Certificates and discounts) and perks at the Casino Bar. It has been less lately. 

Edited September 19, 2023 by BirdTravels

[Capitan Obvious]

51 minutes ago, fstuff1 said:

yes it is the casino bar.

On NCL, there's only 1 bar on the entire ship that accepts the casino's free drinks card and that's the casino bar.

Your Penrose bar is the only place that accepts it on the Prima. (unless they changed it since was in there in 2022.)

 

So thank you for confirming that the casino bar also doubles as the atrium venue bar.

 

If only we lived in a world where our wishes became truth, but alas, we do not.

 

The Penrose Bar in the Penrose Atrium is the Atrium bar. Sorry if that ruffles your sense of entitlement, but you'll have to learn to deal with that. The fact that the bar accept the casino drink card, is a business accommodation that does nothing to change the location or designation of the bar. So, no, the casino bar does not double as the atrium bar, the casino patron are simply forced to use the atrium bar.

 

Interesting though, that the casino doesn't have an on-site bar for their patrons. Or that they haven't made arrangements for other bars on the ship to accept their drink cards. Also kinda sad that you have to go to a bar for a drink instead of the drink coming to you. When the casino decides to properly value their patrons, these oddities should change.