JFK EVA Air nightmare

[PasadenaDave]

29 minutes ago, FlyerTalker said:

 

But you are missing the economics of the situation.  Let's look at just Delta.  According to recent filings and reports, Delta made over $5.5 billion in 2022 from American Express - and claims that over 1% of total USA GDP flows through use of their credit cards.  American actually loses money on its flying, but stays profitable from the earnings on AAdvantage miles sold to banks.

 

The cards are the true profit centers.  And for whatever revenue may come in from your F ticket, and from others, it gets dwarfed by the sheer enormity of credit card revenue.

 

 

Thus all of the new credit card lounges.

[Clay Clayton]

On 10/23/2023 at 5:17 AM, CDNPolar said:

I opened this only because we are flying EVA for the first time ever in January 2024.  Not through JFK, but Toronto to Taipei, and then on from Taipei.

 

Don't know anyone else's experience, but we fly internationally from Toronto often, and whether carryon only or checked luggage, the electronic boarding passes never get you anywhere until you have gone through the counter and had your documents / credentials checked on the landside.

 

This is standard, right?

FWIW, at RDU where I am a volunteer "Ambassador" (restrooms?-far corner, rental cars?-zone 5 downstairs, etc.) the airlines prefer to do the document check at the ticket counter but if you aren't checking luggage, you can make it through security but will have your name called (usually just as boarding begins) and have to have it checked by the gate agent. They usually aren't happy to deal with it since it slows down the whole boarding pass.  

[Jim Avery]

47 minutes ago, FlyerTalker said:

 

But you are missing the economics of the situation.  Let's look at just Delta.  According to recent filings and reports, Delta made over $5.5 billion in 2022 from American Express - and claims that over 1% of total USA GDP flows through use of their credit cards.  American actually loses money on its flying, but stays profitable from the earnings on AAdvantage miles sold to banks.

 

The cards are the true profit centers.  And for whatever revenue may come in from your F ticket, and from others, it gets dwarfed by the sheer enormity of credit card revenue.

 

 

No, I have read all about all the money airlines make from playing the branded cc game.  When a business. any business, gets that far away from their core business it is a bad business plan.  If the Ceos and boards of directors are so happy making billions over marketing cc s then it can't mean well for us poor flyers.

[FlyerTalker]

14 minutes ago, Jim Avery said:

No, I have read all about all the money airlines make from playing the branded cc game.  When a business. any business, gets that far away from their core business it is a bad business plan.  If the Ceos and boards of directors are so happy making billions over marketing cc s then it can't mean well for us poor flyers.

 

No quibbles with that.

 

 

[Sunflower & The Scientist]

22 hours ago, Jim Avery said:

Hope that catches on.  It's frustrating to buy a FC ticket and have no place to go but the food court.  All these credit card promos always seem to ignore looking for unintended consequences...

Agreed! We've recently been having issues with this, especially if we are within the US. It is very frustrating, we don't want to move into a lounge, we just want a comfortable place to go for a couple hour layover. A lot of the airlines FC is lousy to start with, and then you can't get into their lounge. If anyone has suggestions, I'm all ears, however if Jim Avery is sitting in a food court, I'm guessing there aren't any solutions to this! 

[FlyerTalker]

58 minutes ago, Sunflower & The Scientist said:

Agreed! We've recently been having issues with this, especially if we are within the US. It is very frustrating, we don't want to move into a lounge, we just want a comfortable place to go for a couple hour layover. A lot of the airlines FC is lousy to start with, and then you can't get into their lounge. If anyone has suggestions, I'm all ears, however if Jim Avery is sitting in a food court, I'm guessing there aren't any solutions to this! 

 

If you give me some specific "problems" you are facing, I can give some suggestions.  First off, be sure to know that for USA domestic flights, buying a first class ticket does NOT come with lounge access except on Alaska Airlines.

 

 

[Sunflower & The Scientist]

43 minutes ago, FlyerTalker said:

 

If you give me some specific "problems" you are facing, I can give some suggestions.  First off, be sure to know that for USA domestic flights, buying a first class ticket does NOT come with lounge access except on Alaska Airlines.

 

 

We fairly frequently fly Alaska Airlines and we've not been able to get lounge access in the past several months. We could a year ago, then they changed. 

 

 

[FlyerTalker]

Just now, Sunflower & The Scientist said:

We fairly frequently fly Alaska Airlines and we've not been able to get lounge access in the past several months. We could a year ago, then they changed.

 

My bad.  AS has changed their entrance requirements. The complimentary lounge access with an F ticket now only applies to flights of over 2100 miles, which means transcons or Hawaii flights.

 

AS does offer a discounted entry pass for sale for those with F tickets that don't get complimentary access.  Otherwise, an annual paid Alaska Lounge membership would be the way to get access -- AS no longer participates in Priority Pass at some of their lounges and does not sell day passes at SEA or ANC, except for F passengers.

 

Is that your main issue?

 

 

[Breckski]

I can't find the articles, but I remember reading that the credit card companies are getting push back from holders of their high fee cards about the crowded lounges.  So even though these ventures may currently be profitable for the airlines and bank/cc companies, I'm hopeful the credit card consumers will start speaking with their wallets.

 

We've got a card that gives us access to the AmEx Centurion lounges but for the last 2 years that benefit is essentially useless due to crowds.  Luckily, we've found the international, airline specific lounges to still be enjoyable.  

[Mich3554]

12 hours ago, FlyerTalker said:

 

If you give me some specific "problems" you are facing, I can give some suggestions.  First off, be sure to know that for USA domestic flights, buying a first class ticket does NOT come with lounge access except on Alaska Airlines.

 

 

Not only that, buying such a ticket for ‘international destinations’….like Belize or Mexico….also do not come with lounge access. 

[shadowlover]

On 10/22/2023 at 9:10 PM, Jim Avery said:

Yes, and because most lounges are full of recent credit card purchasers.  Sadly cheapening everyones experience.

Seriously?  That is truly an elitist  statement.  Credit card holders with this perk, of which I am one, should be able to use what is promised to us.  A pass once a year.  

[Jim Avery]

I agree you should get what you pay for.  I do mean it is a bad business model as far as flying goes.  And do you like the crowded lounges?  When everyone is "special" then no one is special.  If that is elitist so be it.

[shadowlover]

I like sitting in the lounge- airports are more crowded then I have ever experienced in the lounge.  We fly newark and this is a very crowded airport.  I have seen signs up saying the lounge is full- so we argued last time and said we want to go in the see if we can get a seat.  There were plenty of seats.  So what I actually mind is the false promise made to me by the credit card company to get me to pay a fee for the card.  

[Jim Avery]

Right you are, false promises are never acceptable.

[FlyerTalker]

33 minutes ago, shadowlover said:

So what I actually mind is the false promise made to me by the credit card company to get me to pay a fee for the card.  

 

You were given a United Club membership (assuming so since you use EWR).  You are being treated exactly the same as those who purchased a UC club membership from United.  Now, if you are treated in a different manner, I could see the issue. 

 

They are turning away everyone with a membership, not just you.

 

 

Edited October 28, 2023 by FlyerTalker

[Breckski]

4 hours ago, shadowlover said:

Seriously?  That is truly an elitist  statement.  Credit card holders with this perk, of which I am one, should be able to use what is promised to us.  A pass once a year.  

Wouldn't say elitist.  Just say it's a simple fact.  Obviously, the cc owners have a right to use.  But the benefit is diminished as the number of occupants increase whether you're in the lounge with a $20k first class ticket or a credit card with a $500 annual fee. 

[SantaFe1]

1 hour ago, mwike said:

Wouldn't say elitist.  Just say it's a simple fact.  Obviously, the cc owners have a right to use.  But the benefit is diminished as the number of occupants increase whether you're in the lounge with a $20k first class ticket or a credit card with a $500 annual fee. 

As long as I am in there, I don’t care, and we have gotten there all the aforementioned ways.  I DO care when they close the lounge saying it is full.  And I see that often.  Delta is the worst, I have found.  Even if you have first class tix, if it isn’t Delta One, they won’t let you in.  And our CC is with United, not Delta.  So next March, we have four hours at LAX between Delta domestic flights and have no lounge access.  And you can’t buy a day pass!  Well, we are from L.A.  so maybe a friend will meet us and we call go to lunch!

[FlyerTalker]

30 minutes ago, SantaFe1 said:

 Even if you have first class tix, if it isn’t Delta One, they won’t let you in.

 

First class domestic tickets do not include lounge access.  Same if the international is to Canada, Mexico or the Caribbean.

 

Not sure why folks think that domestic F entitles them to lounge access.  Perhaps someone can help explain that assumption.

 

 

Edited October 29, 2023 by FlyerTalker

[SantaFe1]

19 minutes ago, FlyerTalker said:

 

First class domestic tickets do not include lounge access.  Same if the international is to Canada, Mexico or the Caribbean.

 

Not sure why folks think that domestic F entitles them to lounge access.  Perhaps someone can help explain that assumption.

 

 

Yes, I know that well.  But, for example, when we flew Delta to Iceland, they didn’t use a plane without a Delta one cabin, and we had a five hour layover in Minneapolis without lounge access.  Coming back, we were on a plane with a Delta one cabin.  We had lounge access.  They cost about the same.  Just the aircraft was different.  I know you think we are all ill-informed, and don’t research, but I am informed and I do research.  I just don’t see the logic in this.  And, I might add, before we arrived in Minneapolis, we flew through Atlanta, in domestic first, not on Delta One, and the old Southern hospitality kicked in and they let us in.  So go figure.  Then in June, in business class from Vancouver, we had lounge access in Seattle, on Alaskan.  So I guess sometimes you do get lounge access to/from Canada.  Don’t know about Mexico.  

Edited October 29, 2023 by SantaFe1

[Jim Avery]

yes.  What I was aiming for.  Why are people that buy your most expensive product worth less than those that buy your branded credit card.  Seems stupid business to me.

[FlyerTalker]

48 minutes ago, Jim Avery said:

yes.  What I was aiming for.  Why are people that buy your most expensive product worth less than those that buy your branded credit card.  Seems stupid business to me.

 

Delta alone will likely make over $7 billion from Amex this year.  So, who is the biggest revenue source for DL?  It ain't the guy buying domestic F tickets.  It's Amex, so DL works to keep Amex happy.

 

That may not be what we like, but that's the way it is.  And the folks in Atlanta are the ones looking at the financials, and figuring out where their revenue flows are generated.

 

 

Edited October 29, 2023 by FlyerTalker

[Australia08]

11 hours ago, Jim Avery said:

yes.  What I was aiming for.  Why are people that buy your most expensive product worth less than those that buy your branded credit card.  Seems stupid business to me.

The end of August, we were at the Delta JFK lounge. They were running 2 lines to get in - the Delta One line and the credit card line. They took the Delta One line first. We were in the Delta One line which of course was much shorter. We got in pretty fast. That was the first time I saw the segregated lines. 

[Squawkman]

We had a situation with a direct flight (FLL -> EWR) last week where Viking got us to the airport 5 hours before flight time. I was told by United we could check baggage until 4 hours before the flight. Question: if I had lounge privileges, how would our to-be-checked luggage be handled? Would I need to schlep it with us to the lounge?

[FlyerTalker]

42 minutes ago, Squawkman said:

We had a situation with a direct flight (FLL -> EWR) last week where Viking got us to the airport 5 hours before flight time. I was told by United we could check baggage until 4 hours before the flight. Question: if I had lounge privileges, how would our to-be-checked luggage be handled? Would I need to schlep it with us to the lounge?

 

Question:  Would the contents of your checked bag be good for cabin screening?  No liquids, no sharps etc.  Because any bag in the concourse would have to have gone through TSA screening.  Plus, the size would have had to fit through the x-ray machines.

 

In other words, no checked luggage to the lounge.

 

So you wait outside the security zone.

 

 

[Squawkman]

20 minutes ago, FlyerTalker said:

 

Question:  Would the contents of your checked bag be good for cabin screening?  No liquids, no sharps etc.  Because any bag in the concourse would have to have gone through TSA screening.  Plus, the size would have had to fit through the x-ray machines.

 

In other words, no checked luggage to the lounge.

 

So you wait outside the security zone.

 

 

Thank you - our checked luggage would not pass screening - we had the Viking welcome bottle of wine in there 😊