Emergency warning

[ATG]

@chengkp75

Thank you for your informative and easy to understand response.  

[lovesthebeach2]

1 hour ago, time4u2go said:

There's any number of reasons why they would muster people.  As pointed out earlier, it could be because of a hazard in some part of the ship.  It doesn't necessarily mean the ship is sinking and needs to be abandoned.  It could also be because they need a headcount (also pointed out earlier).  Maybe a passenger is missing and this is the only way they can get a true headcount.  I'm sure there's other reasons as well.  While mustering people is rare, abandoning ship is extremely rare.  Perhaps @chengkp75 can provide some insight.

I’m not sure it would be sounded to get a headcount, because that happened to us on a cruise that someone was missing, and there was just announcements made that everyone had to go to their rooms and stay there until the crew went to every room and did a count.  No blasts of horns at all. It took about an hour and then we were able to leave the cabin.

[toxicfairy]

55 minutes ago, spunks said:

Agreed that it does not mean abandon ship....

 

But that begs the question as to why they want the passengers gathered?

 

I submit that they only want you gathered because it is a very strong possibility 

Or they need a head count. If someone is reported missing as in they never made it back to their cabin. If the person doesn't respond to being called they could do a head count before assuming the person went over board.

[time4u2go]

37 minutes ago, lovesthebeach2 said:

I’m not sure it would be sounded to get a headcount, because that happened to us on a cruise that someone was missing, and there was just announcements made that everyone had to go to their rooms and stay there until the crew went to every room and did a count.  No blasts of horns at all. It took about an hour and then we were able to leave the cabin.

As pointed out by @chengkp75, it is used to get a headcount.

[robmtx]

1 hour ago, chengkp75 said:

What most cruisers believe is the "abandon ship" signal of "more than 6 short blasts followed by one prolonged blast", is actually the "fire and general emergency" alarm.  This is what not only to send passengers to their muster stations, it is to send the balance of the crew to their emergency stations.

 

You can say this over and over, but some people will not get it. They believe what they hear only when what they hear is more interesting than what you have to say. "The alarm means abandon ship" is much more interesting than "the alarm means report to your muster station and await further instructions."

 

I appreciate you in depth writeup on this. Thanks for taking the time!

[lovesthebeach2]

5 minutes ago, time4u2go said:

As pointed out by @chengkp75, it is used to get a headcount.

Yes, I read that post. In our case it was different. We didn’t go to muster for them to get a headcount. Just an announcement was made for everyone to go to their staterooms to be counted. Maybe that’s why there wasn’t an emergency signal.

Edited November 22, 2023 by lovesthebeach2

[chengkp75]

10 minutes ago, lovesthebeach2 said:

Yes, I read that post. In our case it was different. We didn’t go to muster for them to get a headcount. Just an announcement was made for everyone to go to their staterooms to be counted. Maybe that’s why there wasn’t an emergency signal.

That is correct.  It will depend on the specific circumstances whether they will send pax to their cabins for headcount, or whether they will do an actual muster, for a missing person/potential overboard.  It also depends on the specific cruise line.

 

But, in any emergency, a pax count is mandatory, and having all pax, who have no duties in an emergency, and really only get in the way, in limited, controlled, and known locations makes dealing with emergencies much easier.  In a similar fashion, when that "general alarm" bell sounds, we do a head count of crew, to see if anyone is missing and is perhaps injured in the zone of the emergency.

[chengkp75]

2 hours ago, Tin can said:

 

I disagree slightly, abandoning ship is that serious I would expect the Captain to have to consciously unlock something to activate it after reviewing the incident, consulting the coast guard and emergency services and probably Royal Caribbean HQ.

 

Perhaps its me but I dont expect it to be an easily accessible button that someone could get mixed up with something else or your could accidentally activate it by  leaning on it for example.

 

Who knows though.

Again, the signal for "general emergency" is not about abandoning ship, nor is a decision to muster passengers a thought towards abandoning ship.

 

There will be a button on the bridge, with a cover, that could be activated by mistake (not by leaning on it), as it is part of the automated whistle system, and a brain fart on the part of a bridge officer could push the wrong button.  Ship fire detection systems have "manual call points" (the thing you see in buildings "in case of fire, break glass"), and some systems will not only report this to the fire detection system on the bridge as a fire alarm, it will trigger the general alarm.  So, someone breaking the glass on a call point by falling against it, could trigger a general alarm.  So could a crew member using a call point to report a fire, rather than the approved reporting system.

1 hour ago, spunks said:

I submit that they only want you gathered because it is a very strong possibility

Nope.  They want you gathered for a couple of reasons.  To get you out of the way of the emergency teams, and to, as I've said, to know that no one is missing, and perhaps in the area of the emergency (to know that they don't need to search for a victim in a smoky fire).  My personal experience, and preference, as the "on-scene commander" on cruise ships (actually directing the emergency response teams to deal with the fire, which is not the Captain's duty) is to muster over not mustering, as it makes the emergency response easier, even if is a small localized fire.

[lovesthebeach2]

30 minutes ago, chengkp75 said:

That is correct.  It will depend on the specific circumstances whether they will send pax to their cabins for headcount, or whether they will do an actual muster, for a missing person/potential overboard.  It also depends on the specific cruise line.

 

But, in any emergency, a pax count is mandatory, and having all pax, who have no duties in an emergency, and really only get in the way, in limited, controlled, and known locations makes dealing with emergencies much easier.  In a similar fashion, when that "general alarm" bell sounds, we do a head count of crew, to see if anyone is missing and is perhaps injured in the zone of the emergency.

Thanks! In our case it was that they said the badge scanner system went down or had a glitch (they said something like that) and they weren’t sure if everyone was back on the ship. so no muster needed I guess.

[Another_Critic]

CC needs a captcha "You confirm that you did not play a ship's officer on TV, nor did you stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night." before allowing the user to post to a thread.  😄

[goldfish65]

Just my $.02, anyone who travels will eventually have an emergency alarm, you calmly follow the instructions, and stand by until the all-clear, then it's over. I'm fine with not knowing the reason as it doesn't change anything. 

[not-enough-cruising]

23 hours ago, Tin can said:

 

I disagree slightly, abandoning ship is that serious I would expect the Captain to have to consciously unlock something to activate it after reviewing the incident, consulting the coast guard and emergency services and probably Royal Caribbean HQ.

 

Perhaps its me but I dont expect it to be an easily accessible button that someone could get mixed up with something else or your could accidentally activate it by  leaning on it for example.

 

Who knows though.

I assume you have the smoke detectors at your home under lock and key?

[BND]

17 hours ago, goldfish65 said:

Just my $.02, anyone who travels will eventually have an emergency alarm, you calmly follow the instructions, and stand by until the all-clear, then it's over. I'm fine with not knowing the reason as it doesn't change anything. 

No, not everyone will eventually have that happen.   

[BridgeMates]

On 11/22/2023 at 8:50 AM, chengkp75 said:

What most cruisers believe is the "abandon ship" signal of "more than 6 short blasts followed by one prolonged blast", is actually the "fire and general emergency" alarm.  This is what not only to send passengers to their muster stations, it is to send the balance of the crew to their emergency stations.

 

Typically, there would be a "code" announcement made prior to the general emergency alarm, that would have alerted specific emergency teams to respond, but at that time in the morning, it may have been made in crew areas and public areas only, not in guest cabin areas, since no crew would be working there.  For example, on NCL, a "code bravo" call would notify the command team, the bridge team, the fire teams, the quick response tech team, security, and medical to respond to their stations.  The remainder of the crew go about their normal routine.  When the "general alarm" sounds, then those crew who you saw during the "old style" passenger muster drill (station leaders, stairway monitors, etc), along with the others that you didn't see (deck searching), which represents a large portion of the crew, report to their stations.

 

As noted, the "muster station" signal is sounded when the Captain and the "on-scene commander" decide that the emergency is such that it endangers passengers, and they should be sent to known and controlled locations, and an accountability taken (so that the emergency teams know whether or not they need to search for passengers). As a past "on-scene commander" on cruise ships, if my fire teams know that all passengers are accounted for, and don't have to spend time searching for passengers, then it becomes far easier to attend to the emergency.

 

There are many cases, including the infamous Star Princess fire, where the passengers were called to muster, while a very serious emergency was dealt with, where there was literally no thought given to evacuating the ship.  "The ship is the best lifeboat".

 

The "muster signal", and the passenger muster are for accountability, not really about getting into lifeboats.  For every 200 true musters in emergencies, perhaps one results in actually loading boats

Thank you for the explanation.  I have always valued your opinion.

Over the past several years the Muster drills seem to have deteriorated in their importance, at least to me after 50+ cruises on different cruise lines.  Now-a-days it's just read your app or TV in cabin and get checked off at the Muster station.  I wonder how many people really watch that instruction video and will be ready to act should something happen.  Some people don't even speak English but I don't know if they broadcast instructions in other languages.   I hated those days when we had to line up outside on deck and get checked off but still I wonder if it will be bedlam should that alarm go off.   Please remember all, it's just my "opinion."

[chengkp75]

I am a firm opponent of the new "e-muster" format.  In my professional opinion, it removes the training the crew received in "herding the reluctant cats", in real life, on a weekly basis.  It also removes the "muscle memory" training of the passengers in knowing how to find their muster station, when a couple thousand others are trying to do the same.  The e-muster is a whole different experience, when you wander on your own to find someone who checks you off, and away you go.  Training and drills are supposed to be as close to a real emergency as possible, the e-muster is not.

[mo&fran]

28 minutes ago, chengkp75 said:

I am a firm opponent of the new "e-muster" format.  In my professional opinion, it removes the training the crew received in "herding the reluctant cats", in real life, on a weekly basis.  It also removes the "muscle memory" training of the passengers in knowing how to find their muster station, when a couple thousand others are trying to do the same.  The e-muster is a whole different experience, when you wander on your own to find someone who checks you off, and away you go.  Training and drills are supposed to be as close to a real emergency as possible, the e-muster is not.

Even the traditional muster drill doesn't necessarily follow what could happen in an actual emergency.  The evacuation route posted om the stateroom door shows alternate routes through crew only areas that we have never used in the drill.

On our last cruise, our room was just outside the door to the bridge, with a fire door before the passenger stairwell. I hope one of the crew doors would provide access to a crew stairwell, should that fire door be closed.  

[chengkp75]

2 minutes ago, mo&fran said:

Even the traditional muster drill doesn't necessarily follow what could happen in an actual emergency.  The evacuation route posted om the stateroom door shows alternate routes through crew only areas that we have never used in the drill.

On our last cruise, our room was just outside the door to the bridge, with a fire door before the passenger stairwell. I hope one of the crew doors would provide access to a crew stairwell, should that fire door be closed.  

And, there are alternative muster locations, should the primary one is unavailable.  Repetitive drills can address varying scenarios (as the crew does), but when you are trying to drill people who have no training, you stick with the simplest.

 

The fire door before the passenger stairwell, would not be closed unless the fire zones on either side of the door (i.e. where your cabin is, or where the stairwell is) are in the fire zone.  While the fire doors are all released together during crew fire drills, when a fire alarm is sounded, the doors at either end of the zone are closed, but the remainder remain open to allow easy access for evacuation.  But, yes, if the fire door was closed, then you would use the alternate route through crew areas, if that is required.

[SRF]

On 11/22/2023 at 9:19 AM, spunks said:

Agreed that it does not mean abandon ship....

 

But that begs the question as to why they want the passengers gathered?

 

I submit that they only want you gathered because it is a very strong possibility they will call for abandon ship

 

Hmm, maybe if there is a person overboard, they want to figure out who it is without knocking on every door?????

[gmerick]

Way back years ago (ok, last decade), I checked out the "alternate" evacuation routes on my cabin door, so I was ready when the buzzer went off.  I took the "better to beg forgiveness than ask permission" philosophy, and took the "less traveled path" to my muster station (twice!).  There is an elevator shaft next to a steel staircase.  The crew areas are utilitarian, no wallpaper or artwork, no carpeting.  At every landing, there was a crew member in a life jacket, and there were clear signs directing me to the muster.  On the second excursion -- a year after the first expedition through the crew dungeon -- someone with stripes on their shoulders was on deck 6, and I got the naughty lecture about maybe I shouldn't be there.  All part of the forgiveness thing.  

My third venture in going where no passenger has gone before was when I signed up for a ship-sponsored shorkeling excursion on a day when the ship arrived in port late, and customs took their own sweet time.  Our excursion leader polled the group for any trouble with mobility or using stairs.  Then we ducked into the service area of the bar we were gathered in, and ducked down 3 decks to what she called "I-95", and streamed aft to the tender port.  I took pictures of the emergency floor plans of each deck posted on the walls.  Not an "All Access" tour, but a nice little walk.

[compman9]

I was on the OP's cruise, and just to let you all know, I am really quite likely to down if there ever was an emergency

 

I heard the signal, and walked towards the restrooms where my wife was. She came out running, as were all the other passengers by now. She asked where her purse was, and I said, "dunno."

We rushed back to the bar to collect her purse, and on seeing my full drink, I asked whether she thought I should take it, "just in case."

 

Just in case what, I really don't know, but as a Brit I would guess, it means just in case I couldn't finish it!

 

At about this time, someone came on the tannoy to say it was a false alarm. There were very few people about - presumably already at their muster stations.

 

As I said, mostly likely to drown right here...

...But at least I would have finished my drink.