Casino?

[JFontaine]

I'm not on the site where the survey is,  so I seem to not be able to participate in the survey. I wonder the percentage of Crystal cruisers who are like me and don't use that site. Anyway - I've got about 100 days on Crystal and love it (more so after recently trying Oceania) but won't go on a cruise without a casino either. 

Edited March 21 by JFontaine

[TER777]

7 minutes ago, JFontaine said:

I'm not on the site where the survey is,  so I seem to not be able to participate in the survey. I wonder the percentage of Crystal cruisers who are like me and don't use that site. Anyway - I've got about 100 days on Crystal and love it (more so after recently trying Oceania) but won't go on a cruise without a casino either. 

See post #20. Has an unrestricted link there to the survey. 

[Cruise-y]

I received the survey early last week and responded. I never used the casino but I don't care if it is there. I don't use the Lounge either (except for sports events). But I miss the bar outside of the Galaxy because I like to take a drink into a show.  (Am I remembering correctly? Was there a bar in the casino?)

 

When Crystal first announced they would return the casino they said it would be in a smaller footprint. That pretty much points to Pulse (another vastly underused space), which is tucked back in a corner and not on a main thoroughfare. 

 

I hope Crystal makes a casino decision based on a true cost-benefit analysis, not emotion, because I want them to stay solvent. I'm glad they sent out a survey instead of relying on social media platforms.

[artbcpa]

This thread is so interesting because we were just on Symphony and were told that the decision had already been made; that it would only be on Serenity and would be ready in time for next year's world cruise. Since we were told by a Crystal official, we thought it was approved. Maybe not?

[FlyerTalker]

On 3/22/2024 at 7:03 PM, Cruise-y said:

But I miss the bar outside of the Galaxy because I like to take a drink into a show.  (Am I remembering correctly? Was there a bar in the casino?)

 

The current "Jade" on Symphony was the "high roller" room under Genting, and was a disco prior to that.  Has had a bar in both incarnations.  It was the starboard side entrance into the casino, going from the shops area.  There was no public bar next to the Serenity casino.

 

On 3/22/2024 at 7:03 PM, Cruise-y said:

When Crystal first announced they would return the casino they said it would be in a smaller footprint. That pretty much points to Pulse (another vastly underused space), which is tucked back in a corner and not on a main thoroughfare.

 

Wonder if the DJ booth could be used as the casino "cage"?  It's big enough for a table game or two and a couple of slots.

 

Looking back at the high roller room on Symphony, that only had two tables IIRC and not slots.  Way too constrained for anything more.

 

21 hours ago, artbcpa said:

This thread is so interesting because we were just on Symphony and were told that the decision had already been made; that it would only be on Serenity

 

That makes some sense, and points to both a) the Lounge remains for both ships, and b) Pulse gets the reborn casino.

 

 

[ctjon]

Although I'm nor teally a gamble (haven't been in casino on board for years - I think ti would be a mistake for only 1 of the ships to have one.  People would take a trip on Serenity and gamble and then book on Symphony not realizing there was no casino - would lead to bad feelings, etc.

I think they should have on both although it wouldn't stop me from cruising.

[Treasure Hunter]

That is a terrible decision. I’m booked on Symphony and beginning to feel cheated.

[Stickman1990]

58 minutes ago, Treasure Hunter said:

That is a terrible decision. I’m booked on Symphony and beginning to feel cheated.

Not sure it’s actually a decision - more an unsubstantiated rumour at this stage as I’ve certainly seen nothing announced by Crystal

 

Barring where physical limitations exist (eg Super club only on Serenity) they typically deliver a uniform offering on both ships 

[FlyerTalker]

14 hours ago, Treasure Hunter said:

That is a terrible decision. I’m booked on Symphony and beginning to feel cheated.

 

13 hours ago, Stickman1990 said:

Barring where physical limitations exist (eg Super club only on Serenity) they typically deliver a uniform offering on both ships 

 

Which is the nub of the issue.

 

If "The Lounge" is going to remain, let's ask the folks who are "being cheated": Just where are you going to put a casino on Symphony?  And what's the tradeoff in that decision?

 

 

[Treasure Hunter]

I have never been on Crystal. I will try the one cruise and see if the amenities out weigh the lack of a casino. I tried Viking and hated it. Perhaps the fact that we don’t drink alcohol ( so cocktail hour holds little charm) has something to do with it. We have been on many land tours ( Safaris and touring exotic locales ) where casinos just weren’t important. But casinos are fun for days at sea and long evenings. I don’t know the layout of the ship but they had what I hear was a large casino for the size of the ship, so perhaps they can use part of that space again.

[BWIVince]

On 3/20/2024 at 12:03 AM, PaulMCO said:

Another issue is of course finding a company to run a Casino operation.  I have not seen anything in the trades that announces an award.  Plus it is not so simple to plop a table and slot machines on the floor.  There is the space, electrical, cooling, and most important surveillance and a small room for monitoring the gaming.  This was ripped out when Genting (or their creditors) cleaned out the old casinos.

 

I have no inside information obviously, but my gut tells me this has a LOT to do with the survey and the timing, despite what they're claiming publicly on FB.  

 

If they had put together an RFP shortly after the announcement (such as it was), by the time it was sent to vendors, the vendors pulled together their proposals, and the proposals got an initial evaluation to evaluate feasibility, we'd be where we are today.  They would now have an idea of ballpark cost and downsides/risks to evaluate with customers, to help measure feasibility and shape the potential options to proceed.

 

To me, that reads like exactly where they're at.

 

...And for anyone who thinks the casinos are opening anytime soon, keep in mind they haven't even started ordering or fabricating anything, which won't happen until after a vendor is selected -- which is likely still months away based on the survey.

 

Vince

[ryndam]

8 minutes ago, BWIVince said:

 

I have no inside information obviously, but my gut tells me this has a LOT to do with the survey and the timing, despite what they're claiming publicly on FB.  

Vince

Welcome back, Vince. We've been missing your observations!

 

Rob

[BWIVince]

2 minutes ago, ryndam said:

Welcome back, Vince. We've been missing your observations!

 

Rob

 

Thanks Rob!  Life has been kind of topsy turvy this year so I haven't had much fun time online, but I realized my next cruise is less than 3 months away, and I'd better catch back up on everything Crystal in order to prepare.  😄 

 

Also, I just re-read my message and the intro wasn't as clear as I'd hoped...  Just to clarify, I meant that Paul was likely spot-on, and that the operator RFP and fit-out plans had more to do with the survey than Crystal let on.

 

Vince

[Keith1010]

Welcome back Vince.

 

All, Crystal has just updated their Q&A's on the Crystal website and that includes the casinos. This is what it says.

 

WHEN WILL THE CASINO BE ADDED ONBOARD ?

 

We are pleased to confirm that we are planning to have casinos back onboard this year.

 

The key words in the answer:

 

casinos (as in more than one) and this year as in by CYE24.

 

Keith 

[FlyerTalker]

17 minutes ago, Keith1010 said:

The key words in the answer:

 

casinos (as in more than one) and this year as in by CYE24.

 

You missed the most significant key word:

 

"Planning".

 

What did Robert Burns say?

 

 

[BWIVince]

Thanks for the update, Keith! 

 

Yeah, "planning' was the first word that caught my eye, FT!  I'm sure they would love to have the work done by the time of the World Cruise and Symphony's Q1 2025 itineraries, so they have every incentive to get it done this year, but the feasibility of that depends a lot on where they're at right now in the process.  If they were asking on feedback on location options a couple of weeks ago, it could be tight.

 

Vince

[Keith1010]

Vince and Flyertalker, I hear you both.

 

I guess my read on it is they plan to have the casinos meeting that it the intent.  Like anything else it's never done till it's done. Ummm. I am now thinking what Yogi Berra would say.

 

OK. This is where we say time will tell.

 

Keith

[PaulMCO]

@BWIVince  welcome back...  Which cruise are you doing in two plus months??

 

I received the survey twice and answered differently.   First that it made a difference and would not cruise Crystal without one.  It was more in depth than if you went through the other forks.  Likely they are doing an RFP or are evaluating an RFP and doing a cost/benefit analysis.

 

Just off Regent, and Encore had a casino that was very compact.  They had enough tables to handle Black Jack, poker, dice, plus two rows of slots.  Generally crowded, as there was a large group of Taiwanese who felt at home there  🙂

Edited April 3 by PaulMCO

[BWIVince]

On 4/2/2024 at 8:00 PM, PaulMCO said:

@BWIVince  welcome back...  Which cruise are you doing in two plus months??

 

I received the survey twice and answered differently.   First that it made a difference and would not cruise Crystal without one.  It was more in depth than if you went through the other forks.  Likely they are doing an RFP or are evaluating an RFP and doing a cost/benefit analysis.

 

Just off Regent, and Encore had a casino that was very compact.  They had enough tables to handle Black Jack, poker, dice, plus two rows of slots.  Generally crowded, as there was a large group of Taiwanese who felt at home there  🙂

Thanks... Serenity’s July 2nd Alaska cruise.  (I was thinking of the flight dates for the pre-cruise when I said that, but now we’re inside 3 months for the cruise too.)

 

Thats pretty much the scale of what I was picturing Crystal might end up with, but I think when people consider the feasibility of the casino they think primarily of the scope, and not as much the terms, which was the trouble Crystal had with finding a new operator when Caesars stopped serving that segment.  
 

All of the other luxury lines at this point have either in-house operators or global enterprise contracts that leverage the operating volume of their sister brands, which like it did for Crystal, VASTLY changes the equation.  I think this has had a lot to do with the original cancellation of the casinos and the added scrutiny now.  A similar sized casino on Regent, Seabourn or Silversea is going to cost a lot less to operate as the exact same setup on Crystal, at this point.  That wasn’t always true, but like everything in cruising, consolidation and volume pricing has changed a lot of the economics.

 

Vince

[FlyerTalker]

Completely a sidebar, but I always wondered what happened to that statue of Caesar that was in the casino.

 

 

[KenzSailing]

On 4/4/2024 at 3:10 PM, BWIVince said:

Thanks... Serenity’s July 2nd Alaska cruise.  (I was thinking of the flight dates for the pre-cruise when I said that, but now we’re inside 3 months for the cruise too.)

 

Thats pretty much the scale of what I was picturing Crystal might end up with, but I think when people consider the feasibility of the casino they think primarily of the scope, and not as much the terms, which was the trouble Crystal had with finding a new operator when Caesars stopped serving that segment.  
 

All of the other luxury lines at this point have either in-house operators or global enterprise contracts that leverage the operating volume of their sister brands, which like it did for Crystal, VASTLY changes the equation.  I think this has had a lot to do with the original cancellation of the casinos and the added scrutiny now.  A similar sized casino on Regent, Seabourn or Silversea is going to cost a lot less to operate as the exact same setup on Crystal, at this point.  That wasn’t always true, but like everything in cruising, consolidation and volume pricing has changed a lot of the economics.

 

Vince

 

Over on Facebook, back when this was a hotter topic and Crystal's position was still "no how, no way" I remember Cristina Levis jumping in to state unequivocally that casinos don't make money for cruise lines, they make money for the concessionaire. 

 

Also, hi Vince!

 

 

[CwazeAndCwaze]

On 4/4/2024 at 2:44 PM, FlyerTalker said:

Completely a sidebar, but I always wondered what happened to that statue of Caesar that was in the casino.

 

 

I heard somebody stabbed it in the back.... 

[ctjon]

They not directly make money for the cruise ship but they bring passengers on board that wouldn't come otherwise.

[BWIVince]

1 hour ago, KenzSailing said:

 

Over on Facebook, back when this was a hotter topic and Crystal's position was still "no how, no way" I remember Cristina Levis jumping in to state unequivocally that casinos don't make money for cruise lines, they make money for the concessionaire. 

 

Also, hi Vince!

 

 

Hi!  😊 I may have also returned to the board for a status update from the Chez!  😉

 

For a line like Crystal, with only two ships, an operator that’s going to provide labor, management, and accounting control staff to such a tiny room, and if history is any indication get light (volume) and limited (duration) usage at best out of the equipment they’re leasing, and without any actual profitable operations (like their competitors) to help balance and bolster the contract terms, Cristina Levis is completely right and honest.  It’s very likely that this will actually cost Crystal money overall, and that they’re trying to evaluate just how much they’re willing to consider this a cost of doing business to be competitive, and how much passengers really care.

 

The operators OTOH always profit, guaranteeing the cruise line covers all the expenses and only shares a minor portion of the profits.  That leaves the cruise lines 100% in the squeeze.

 

Vince

Edited April 6 by BWIVince

[Keith1010]

13 hours ago, KenzSailing said:

when this was a hotter topic and Crystal's position was still "no how, no way" I remember Cristina Levis jumping in to state unequivocally that casinos don't make money for cruise lines, they make money for the concessionaire. 

 

 

Correct and mentioned more than once.The original footprint was enormous to begin with and each ship is carrying far less guests than originally designed to carry.  Another evolution which took place before NC came along was the reduction of sea days.  There was a time even on a 7 days cruise which was rare years ago that a short cruise of seven days had three to four sea days.  These days most of the cruises have one sea day so less time at sea and less time to operate the casino.

 

Keith