No refund for covid cancellation, terrible customer service

[Até]

MSC knows if they hold fast OP will likely go to the insurance and leave them with the cruise fare money.  It will be interesting to see what happens if the insurance understands that MSC is dodging.

[KimPossible1]

4 hours ago, MsTabbyKats said:

I don't get that either....but legal action is "time and money".  If she gets money from insurance, there's no legal action.  She'll "be made whole".

Well it took a month and numerous emails and phone calls to even get the “no sail” letter from them on Monday.  Since I couldn’t file a claim until I had a letter, it has been an exhausting and agonizing experience just to get that far.  I wouldn’t pursue legal action, it isn’t worth the energy or time, The problem is they aren’t honoring their own booking conditions, but I’m done fighting with them at this point.  It’s just a matter of never sailing with them again. 

[KimPossible1]

48 minutes ago, Até said:

MSC knows if they hold fast OP will likely go to the insurance and leave them with the cruise fare money.  It will be interesting to see what happens if the insurance understands that MSC is dodging.

There is a government agency to log complaints about cruise lines so I will follow up with them next.  I don’t expect or want anything, but it should be known they aren’t honoring their own T&C’s. 

[perakcruiser]

I checked my booking conditions, there is nothing like this clause 6 you mentioned in your first post. I really wonder why MSC could deny. Is the stuff you quoted from their website or where did you get it? 

[KimPossible1]

33 minutes ago, perakcruiser said:

I checked my booking conditions, there is nothing like this clause 6 you mentioned in your first post. I really wonder why MSC could deny. Is the stuff you quoted from their website or where did you get it? 

On their main page, click open Travel Info at the very bottom, and then click on Terms and Conditions.  The info is on page 6 in the third and fourth paragraphs. 

Edited March 14 by KimPossible1
Not clear

[perakcruiser]

20 minutes ago, KimPossible1 said:

On their main page, click open Travel Info at the very bottom, and then click on Terms and Conditions.  The info is on page 6 in the third and fourth paragraphs. 

OK, if these Terms and Conditions were in effect at the time of your booking I cannot see any reason at all how MSC could refuse your claim. 

[Mark_T]

2 hours ago, KimPossible1 said:

On their main page, click open Travel Info at the very bottom, and then click on Terms and Conditions.  The info is on page 6 in the third and fourth paragraphs. 

If you check the version you would have received when you made the original booking, is the same language in there as well?

 

Curious, as there is nothing similar in the UK terms so wondering if this is a website issue as this sort of language disappeared from most cruise lines some time ago…

[S1971]

3 hours ago, KimPossible1 said:

Well it took a month and numerous emails and phone calls to even get the “no sail” letter from them on Monday.  Since I couldn’t file a claim until I had a letter, it has been an exhausting and agonizing experience just to get that far.  I wouldn’t pursue legal action, it isn’t worth the energy or time, The problem is they aren’t honoring their own booking conditions, but I’m done fighting with them at this point.  It’s just a matter of never sailing with them again. 

 

Hi KP1

 

Given you have appeared to have followed the T&C's and MSC are still refusing to refund does it not raise the question with insurance.

 

I'm by no means an expert here, but in the circumstances would the insurer not question MSC prior to them paying out, the obligation is surely with MSC given they've admitted you followed the T&C's.

 

As a  insurer I certainly wouldn't pay out under these circumstances.

 

Good luck.

[perakcruiser]

59 minutes ago, Mark_T said:

Curious, as there is nothing similar in the UK terms so wondering if this is a website issue as this sort of language disappeared from most cruise lines some time ago…

I have the feeling as it disappeared also from all MSC websites except MSC USA. Which certainly is not some kind of escape road for MSC. But @KimPossible1 has to prove that these T&C were in effect at the time of booking, from now on I will save the PDF every time I book. 

[Mark_T]

2 hours ago, perakcruiser said:

...from now on I will save the PDF every time I book. 

The booking confirmation email comes with a copy of the terms, so that should be all you need.

 

Similarly if the terms that KimPossible1 received with the booking confirmation for this cruise include the Covid clauses then she should be clear for any further action she decides to take.

Edited March 14 by Mark_T

[Até]

The current US Terms and Conditions began December 8, 2023 and list the pre-cruise notification period as five days, with a 24 hour after positive test requirement.

 

The previous US T&C's were dated March 3, 2023 and differed in that the notification period was 14 days pre-cruise and did not mention you needed to notify within 24 hours of the positive test.

 

I don't know OP's booking date nor if I have saved the applicable T&C's but a US positive Covid cancelation policy has been in effect for years now. 

[JamieLogical]

40 minutes ago, Até said:

The current US Terms and Conditions began December 8, 2023 and list the pre-cruise notification period as five days, with a 24 hour after positive test requirement.

 

The previous US T&C's were dated March 3, 2023 and differed in that the notification period was 14 days pre-cruise and did not mention you needed to notify within 24 hours of the positive test.

 

I don't know OP's booking date nor if I have saved the applicable T&C's but a US positive Covid cancelation policy has been in effect for years now. 

 

I am still really surprised to find out they still have a COVID cancelation policy on the books, though it sounds like they are not abiding by it. Every other major cruise line got rid of these policies something like 2 years ago and now leave it for passengers to take up with their insurance, just like any other injury/illness that would prevent sailing.

[Brighton Line]

13 hours ago, JamieLogical said:

Wait, I don't even get this section!

 

We acknowledge that you followed the proper procedures and contacted us within the required timeframe due to your illness, and we appreciate your diligence in doing so.
Your request for a refund has been denied, we consider this case as closed.

 

How can they acknowledge that you followed the proper procedure, but still deny your claim?!?!?!?

I feel like you almost HAVE to take legal action now!

Simple, OP followed the procedure to inform the cruise line/ship that they weren't going to sail not the one for Covid refund policy. This allowed them to be able to offer the cabin for upgrade to those onboard quicker 😁

[Lupush]

"receiving the test result and no later than noon on the date of embarkation and provide verification satisfactory to the Company of test results administered by providers other than those retained by the Carrier. Under no circumstances shall the Carrier be liable to any such Passenger for any costs, damages or expenses whatsoever incurred by any Passenger."

 

"Provide verification satisfactory to the Company of test results administered by providers other than those retained by the Carrier."
 

This statement basically gives MSC a blanket reason to deny any requests for refunds.  All they have to say is that who did your test and the provided results are not satisfactory to the Company.  By this statement in their T&C's they are completely within their right to deny your claim.

[MsTabbyKats]

I found something:

 

If you test positive for COVID-19 within five (5) days prior to embarkation, you may elect to cancel your Booking. In that event, you, and anyone else in your travelling party who cancels their Booking due to your positive COVID-19 test result, will be entitled to a refund or future cruise credit equal in value to the amount Passenger paid to the Carrier. 

 

This is on Page 6 of T&C.  It says test positive 5 days prior to embarkation.  The OPs sister tested positive the morning of embarkation, not within the 5 days prior period.

[perakcruiser]

3 hours ago, Mark_T said:

The booking confirmation email comes with a copy of the terms, so that should be all you need.

Correct! 

[Homosassa]

21 minutes ago, Lupush said:

"receiving the test result and no later than noon on the date of embarkation and provide verification satisfactory to the Company of test results administered by providers other than those retained by the Carrier. Under no circumstances shall the Carrier be liable to any such Passenger for any costs, damages or expenses whatsoever incurred by any Passenger."

 

"Provide verification satisfactory to the Company of test results administered by providers other than those retained by the Carrier."
 

This statement basically gives MSC a blanket reason to deny any requests for refunds.  All they have to say is that who did your test and the provided results are not satisfactory to the Company.  By this statement in their T&C's they are completely within their right to deny your claim.

LOL!

 

I pointed out several pages ago that there was a second step (providing of verification) that everyone keeps overlooking.

 

If the verification was not provided within the required time frame (before noon of the day of embarkation), then all conditions were not met for a refund or FCC.

[DCGuy64]

8 minutes ago, MsTabbyKats said:

I found something:

 

If you test positive for COVID-19 within five (5) days prior to embarkation, you may elect to cancel your Booking. In that event, you, and anyone else in your travelling party who cancels their Booking due to your positive COVID-19 test result, will be entitled to a refund or future cruise credit equal in value to the amount Passenger paid to the Carrier. 

 

This is on Page 6 of T&C.  It says test positive 5 days prior to embarkation.  The OPs sister tested positive the morning of embarkation, not within the 5 days prior period.

Thank you for posting this, @MsTabbyKats. So can I assume that the "within 5 days" clause means "no fewer than" 5 days? Meaning if my sailing is on March 15, I must inform them no later than March 10? If I'm right in that assumption, then I could see where MSC was within its rights to deny the refund/FCC request. I think @KimPossible1 was under the impression that "within 5 days" meant "no more than 5 days" before embarkation. BTW I was under the same impression she was. (As an aside, it would almost encourage people who got sick within 5 days of embarkation to board anyway, sickness or no sickness, or else not sail and get nothing.)

[MsTabbyKats]

@DCGuy64

 

The way I interpret:

 

You must test positive within 5 days prior to sailing....and inform them by noon of sailing:

 

I am sailing on 4/7.  I must have a positive test from 4/2 to 4/6.  I must inform them by noon of 4/7.

 

@Homosassa  From page 6 of T&C

To qualify for the future cruise credit or refund, you must notify the Company via telephone at 877-665-4655 within twenty-four (24) hours of receiving the test result and no later than noon on the date of embarkation

[Cruiser933]

I believe the CDC guidelines when the current T&C were written was to isolate for five days after a positive COVID test. Due to that, I believe “within 5 days” means 0-5 days before the cruise. If someone tested positive more than 5 days before the cruise they would have been fine to sail per the then CDC guidelines. The CDC has since changed those guidelines so I would expect the T&C to change at some point. 
 

[DCGuy64]

9 minutes ago, MsTabbyKats said:

@DCGuy64

 

The way I interpret:

 

You must test positive within 5 days prior to sailing....and inform them by noon of sailing:

 

I am sailing on 4/7.  I must have a positive test from 4/2 to 4/6.  I must inform them by noon of 4/7.

 

@Homosassa  From page 6 of T&C

To qualify for the future cruise credit or refund, you must notify the Company via telephone at 877-665-4655 within twenty-four (24) hours of receiving the test result and no later than noon on the date of embarkation

OK, thanks. Based on that, it seems @KimPossible1 did that. She called before noon the day of sailing aka embarkation. That would seem to satisfy the requirements.

[KforKitty]

7 minutes ago, Cruiser933 said:

I believe the CDC guidelines when the current T&C were written was to isolate for five days after a positive COVID test. Due to that, I believe “within 5 days” means 0-5 days before the cruise. If someone tested positive more than 5 days before the cruise they would have been fine to sail per the then CDC guidelines. The CDC has since changed those guidelines so I would expect the T&C to change at some point. 
 

Their interpretation could be 1-5 days prior to embarkation day meaning that the day of embarkation is excluded (day 0).  This is what happened in KimPossible’s scenario.  You could notify them on day 0 but the positive test would need to have been between the day before embarkation or up to date 5 prior.

 

Catherine

 

[MsTabbyKats]

7 minutes ago, KforKitty said:

Their interpretation could be 1-5 days prior to embarkation day meaning that the day of embarkation is excluded (day 0).  This is what happened in KimPossible’s scenario.  You could notify them on day 0 but the positive test would need to have been between the day before embarkation or up to date 5 prior.

 

Catherine

 

Correct....according to my interpretation.

 

@DCGuy64 OP did not satisfy the terms...because the covid test was "day of"....not within 5 days prior.

 

 

[Homosassa]

50 minutes ago, MsTabbyKats said:

@DCGuy64

 

 

@Homosassa  From page 6 of T&C

To qualify for the future cruise credit or refund, you must notify the Company via telephone at 877-665-4655 within twenty-four (24) hours of receiving the test result and no later than noon on the date of embarkation

Again, please finish the sentence that you quoted that requires the submission of verification.

[DCGuy64]

23 minutes ago, MsTabbyKats said:

Correct....according to my interpretation.

 

@DCGuy64 OP did not satisfy the terms...because the covid test was "day of"....not within 5 days prior.

 

 

OK, got it. I guess I was thinking that the day of embarkation counted as "within 5 days." I hadn't considered the possibility that "day of" meant "day 0." That stinks. If @KimPossible1's sister had tested positive just one day earlier, she would have been OK from the T&C perspective. EDIT: I wanted to add that I share @JamieLogical's surprise that Covid rules are even a thing anymore.

Edited March 14 by DCGuy64