Medical emergency Edge

[Ex-Airbalancer]

2 hours ago, PTC DAWG said:

If the so called helipad says “winch only”, no landing.  Only the winching up of a basket..

 

I’m told the E class ships use the lawn club area on the top deck for evacuations like this..

I guess that would be the call of the pilot or captain

on our TA on the Apex it was done at the bow 

[PTC DAWG]

3 minutes ago, Ex-Airbalancer said:

I guess that would be the call of the pilot or captain

on our TA on the Apex it was done at the bow 

I’m sure it’s the captain and or a combo of the chopper pilots call..that’s a small area, I’ll say that..

 

Crew on Ascent in January said they have seen all the chairs, sofas etc moved and it was done from there..I do know one thing, no place for a landing that I know of on E Class.

 

I hope I never have to find out how they do this. 

[C-Dragons]

1 hour ago, PTC DAWG said:

I’m sure it’s the captain and or a combo of the chopper pilots call..that’s a small area, I’ll say that..

 

Crew on Ascent in January said they have seen all the chairs, sofas etc moved and it was done from there..I do know one thing, no place for a landing that I know of on E Class.

 

I hope I never have to find out how they do this. 

We witnessed an emergency evacuation on our TA cruise on Apex this past April.

It took place on the AFT top deck right above our suite on deck 12.  The Captain slowed the ship down so the helicopter could keep pace with us and a gurney was lowered. The guest was strapped in and hauled up. It was extremely windy where we were due to the helicopter's propellers. The chopper flew away and later the Captain let everyone know that the patient was doing well after receiving treatment.

Edited May 8 by C-Dragons

[Miss Vickie]

On 5/7/2024 at 7:13 AM, chengkp75 said:

The decision as to whether to use a helicopter for evacuation or divert the ship is made by committee.  That committee consists of the ship's doctor (what condition is the patient in), the ship's Captain (what is the risk to the ship, crew, and passengers, the helicopter flight crew (are weather conditions or distance okay to make it safe), and the USCG flight surgeon (is there more risk in winching the patient off the ship and spending an hour or two with sub-optimal life support (this is a helicopter, not an ER), or is the patient stable enough with the life support systems on the ship to make the diversion).  All of these decisions put together are what determine whether a helicopter evac is warranted.

 

If the distances that the helicopter has to cover are great, USCG will deploy a fixed wing aircraft to supervise the scene, in case things go sideways, they can deploy lifesaving equipment.

 

The helipads on cruise ships are almost never used for landing, and being on the bow, they are difficult to use for winching operations.  The ship must continue to move, in order to remain as stable as possible, and so the helicopter is forced to make a "moving hover" (staying stationary over a moving spot) with the front of the ship in his face while backing away.  For this reason, most winching is done from an upper deck, around midships.  This presents problems as well, as the thermal updrafts from the ship's exhausts are near, and can cause problems with hovering.

 

No commercial helicopter (certainly not a MediAir type) company trains for hovering over a moving ship, nor winching exercises, nor even landing on a moving ship (ship would still need to be moving to maintain a stable helipad), and no Captain would think of allowing a commercial helicopter anywhere near his ship.  Some countries do outsource their SAR responsibilities to private companies (Holland for one, I think), but these are typically ex-military pilots who do train for these operations.

I always appreciate your posts! While I do know that winching the patient up to a hovering helicopter is the preferred method of evacuation by helicopter (and actually had a friend who had to be evacuated from Reflection that way to the Canary Islands), we were on board Serenade of the Seas many years ago when she had to turn sail towards Guadeloupe so a coast guard helicopter from there could meet the ship. They landed on the pad on the bow. We could see the operation from the observation lounge overlooking the bow. It was a painstaking,protracted process. 

 

[abbydancer2003]

On the "Ultimate Ship tour" on Princess a few years ago, the doctor told us that helicopter evacuations are rare, because the person has to be so sick that they can't wait to get to a port, but not so sick that they're at risk to die in the helicopter rescue.  

 

I've seen a couple reroutes in the past couple of years and one helicopter on Princess (only helicopter ever).  I've seen quite a few people removed at scheduled port stops for medical though.

[81Zoomie]

Medevac off the east coast today as well.  Looks like the AF did an amazing job!  Hopefully the patient is doing well.

 

https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/travel/us-air-force-medical-airlift-carnival-cruise-ship

[cruisestitch]

Yes, speaking of refueling helicopters…..

[steamboats]

20 hours ago, hcat said:

to the experts:  if the helipad area location is not best suited, why is it placed where it is on most ships?

 

19 hours ago, papaflamingo said:

The bow of a cruise ship is the only place free of obstructions with enough space for a helicopter to land.  Any rails or flag staffs are removed or lowered on hinges to the deck so for the helicopter to land.  

 

None of the helipads on larger cruise ships is for landing. They won´t be able to stand the weight of modern rescue helicopters. All those helipads are winch areas only. It´s just an unobstructed area where you can more or less easily winch a person up to the helicopter.

 

steamboats

[cruisestitch]

6 hours ago, steamboats said:

 

 

None of the helipads on larger cruise ships is for landing. They won´t be able to stand the weight of modern rescue helicopters. All those helipads are winch areas only. It´s just an unobstructed area where you can more or less easily winch a person up to the helicopter.

 

steamboats

And yet there is a YouTube video of a helicopter landing on Solstice helipad.  Here is a still from that video 

[steamboats]

8 minutes ago, cruisestitch said:

And yet there is a YouTube video of a helicopter landing on Solstice helipad.  Here is a still from that video 

That's a small helicopter. The big ones can't land. They are too heavy. Those small ones can't fly far distances. The big Coast Guards ones have a wider range.

 

steamboats 

[cruisestitch]

But I believe the claim was that none is for landing and all are winch areas only but clearly that’s not so

[chengkp75]

2 hours ago, cruisestitch said:

But I believe the claim was that none is for landing and all are winch areas only but clearly that’s not so

If you notice at the right of the helipad is a note "0,5 t", which means the helipad is designed for a weight of 1100 lbs (metric ton).  That looks like a Eurocopter UH-72 (can't be sure), which has an empty weight (no fuel or crew) of 3900 lbs.  This means the pilot is seriously overloading the deck, or is practicing "light on the skids" (creating enough lift with the rotor to not quite lift the helicopter off the deck).  With any ship's motion at all, especially on the bow you would get a lot of pitching, this could cause the helo to come off the deck as the ship's bow goes down, and slam back into the deck as the bow comes up, before the pilot can react.  Note the nearly flat calm seas in the photo.  Only very small, "light class" helicopters have an operating weight under 1/2 a ton.

[Ex-Airbalancer]

Here a video about landing on military ship with the development of the Beartrap

 

[papaflamingo]

22 hours ago, chengkp75 said:

But, most of the helipads are not strong enough, or large enough for most SAR helicopters to land, though I suspect they could try to stay "light on the skids" to reduce weight on the pad.

The Coast Guard... in Hawaii...flies the HH-65 Dolphin which is not a particularly large aircraft and is used aboard CG Cutters.  So the helipad on Edge would easily be able to accommodate it. I spent 20 years as a CG pilot (12 active, 8 reserve) and even though I didn't fly helicopters (flew fixed wing), I have never known of a rescue where they'd stay "light on the skids."  Too hazardous.  If the helicopter can't land it'll hoist.  A lot can go wrong landing on any ship, and staying "light on the skids" would, I suspect, put the helicopter in more of a threat of a dynamic roll over if the wheel (they don't have skids) caught as the ship pitched or rolled.  

[chengkp75]

My experience with helicopters is 12 years of flying in the back, and commanding flight deck crews on offshore oil rigs, so I'm in no way in your league.  I've never seen a "light on the wheels" on anything other than a large oil platform, so I'm just saying that it could be done, but as you say, not likely.  The Dolphin weighs 6900 lbs empty, so even though the pad on the Edge would be large enough, I think it would be overloaded.

[papaflamingo]

6 minutes ago, chengkp75 said:

My experience with helicopters is 12 years of flying in the back, and commanding flight deck crews on offshore oil rigs, so I'm in no way in your league.  I've never seen a "light on the wheels" on anything other than a large oil platform, so I'm just saying that it could be done, but as you say, not likely.  The Dolphin weighs 6900 lbs empty, so even though the pad on the Edge would be large enough, I think it would be overloaded.

I suspect you are right.  The helipad is likely really a "hoist" area.  Not really sure of the stressing, etc.  As I said, I wasn't a "fling wing" pilot, they tend to talk funny over the radio. And we all know that "sounding cool" over the radio is a major "goal" of every pilot. 😜

Besides, the airlines preferred fixed wing time over helo time. 😎

Edited May 9 by papaflamingo

[kearney]

Again... great discussion... nice to see people talking about things and treating each other respectfully.... seems rare these days...  I like learning about things I know nothing about.. and seeing an exchange of ideas and experience... nice

[kirtihk]

On 5/6/2024 at 2:35 AM, Stockjock said:

It's a conspiracy!!!

I've almost never heard of using this word until around 6 years ago.  Thinking (especially, without influencing and out-of-the-box) is a sin these days, I guess.  Society slowly but steadily is moving toward ameba-like existence.

[Miss Vickie]

11 hours ago, chengkp75 said:

If you notice at the right of the helipad is a note "0,5 t", which means the helipad is designed for a weight of 1100 lbs (metric ton).  That looks like a Eurocopter UH-72 (can't be sure), which has an empty weight (no fuel or crew) of 3900 lbs.  This means the pilot is seriously overloading the deck, or is practicing "light on the skids" (creating enough lift with the rotor to not quite lift the helicopter off the deck).  With any ship's motion at all, especially on the bow you would get a lot of pitching, this could cause the helo to come off the deck as the ship's bow goes down, and slam back into the deck as the bow comes up, before the pilot can react.  Note the nearly flat calm seas in the photo.  Only very small, "light class" helicopters have an operating weight under 1/2 a ton.

I wonder what the helipad on the radiance class ships (which are the same hull as Celebrity M class) will handle. I have actually never noted anything painted on the deck other than the circle and the H. My recollection is that the helicopter from Guadeloupe actually shut down its rotors. But I think it was probably smaller than the medevac helicopters used by the three major medical systems in our area. I work for one of them, and our house gets overflown frequently, so I’m very familiar with them.