Is this a new Gratuities policy?

[TRLD]

16 minutes ago, voljeep said:

Solid Point

 

Now the question is, how much of the $60 and $80 per day per person collected is allocated to payment of the crew appreciation?

My understanding from a friend of mine that works in Santa Clarita that CA amount for that person cabin is subtracted as if it was paid each day.

 

As such the contribution for a package person is the same as if they paid the recommended amount.

[voljeep]

1 minute ago, TRLD said:

My understanding from a friend of mine that works in Santa Clarita that CA amount for that person cabin is subtracted as if it was paid each day.

 

As such the contribution for a package person is the same as if they paid the recommended amount.

So you don't know either ...

 

I was looking at my travel summary for the Princess value of the perks including the in my case $16 per day for the CA.  that $16 as a percentage of the total Princess value is "X".  then take "X" times the $16 pp per day?

[TRLD]

4 minutes ago, Interestedcruisefan said:

Correct. 

 

I'm happy with about 80 per cent of the ways they do it. And the rest I believe they significantly take advantage of us passengers. 

 

Internet charges - I don't like the way they exploit the fact that so many passengers need internet daily (my wife and I do to keep in touch with our businesses in the UK daily) and charge fees that just dont exist exorbitant fees anywhere other than on cruise lines

 

These crew appreciation fees - total con trick. Simple as that. 

 

I won't mention a couple of other things as I don't want to divert the debate

More a matter of difference between UK and US approaches. In US tips are normal just as with the CA. For many service positions more money comes from tips than salary. Just as in the US sales taxes are added to sale price at time of purchase vs in the EU where vat is included in the sale price.

 

You say that you have sailed on other US focused lines. They do the exact same thing.

[TRLD]

1 minute ago, voljeep said:

So you don't know either ...

 

I was looking at my travel summary for the Princess value of the perks including the in my case $16 per day for the CA.  that $16 as a percentage of the total Princess value is "X".  then take "X" times the $16 pp per day?

Not sure what your calculation is.

 

My friend said exactly this the contribution to the CA pool is the amount of CA paid by the passengers and the various service charges collected. Some of the service charges such as SPA go to the different pools that are the responsibility of that contractor for their employees because they are not part of the Princess pool. For those cases where the a package is purchased the daily amount of the service charge is subtracted before the revenue is booked and the funds credited to the pool.

 

Have no reason to doubt what he told me.

 

Keep in mind from the companies point of view the more packages sold the more stability to the pool, less potential removal.

 

Also except for alcohol all of the other items included in a package are pretty much fixed costs. Even with alcohol the margin on drinks is such that even if someone drinks all of the drinks that they can on the package the line will still do no worse than break even after the CA is removed.

 

Cruise line spend about $15 per passenger per day for food. The internet is a fixed cost, the photographers are there every cruise, etc.  So with packages the cruise lines are locking in revenue and including item that are mostly fixed costs, with alcohol being the only real variable expense.

[voljeep]

11 minutes ago, TRLD said:

Not sure what your calculation is.

 

My friend said exactly this the contribution to the CA pool is the amount of CA paid by the passengers and the various service charges collected. Some of the service charges such as SPA go to the different pools that are the responsibility of that contractor for their employees because they are not part of the Princess pool. For those cases where the a package is purchased the daily amount of the service charge is subtracted before the revenue is booked and the funds credited to the pool.

 

Have no reason to doubt what he told me.

 

Keep in mind from the companies point of view the more packages sold the more stability to the pool, less potential removal.

 

Also except for alcohol all of the other items included in a package are pretty much fixed costs. Even with alcohol the margin on drinks is such that even if someone drinks all of the drinks that they can on the package the line will still do no worse than break even after the CA is removed.

 

Cruise line spend about $15 per passenger per day for food. The internet is a fixed cost, the photographers are there every cruise, etc.  So with packages the cruise lines are locking in revenue and including item that are mostly fixed costs, with alcohol being the only real variable expense.

the Princess value of my Premier package is $1,174 for my 5 day cruise.

 

the Princess value of my CA is $80

 

80 / 1174 = 6.8%

 

6.8% x $80 = $5.44 CA or about $1.09 per day per person allocated to CA

 

that's the pure allocated maths

[startedwithamouse]

32 minutes ago, Interestedcruisefan said:

Correct. 

 

I'm happy with about 80 per cent of the ways they do it. And the rest I believe they significantly take advantage of us passengers. 

 

Internet charges - I don't like the way they exploit the fact that so many passengers need internet daily (my wife and I do to keep in touch with our businesses in the UK daily) and charge fees that just dont exist exorbitant fees anywhere other than on cruise lines

 

These crew appreciation fees - total con trick. Simple as that. 

 

I won't mention a couple of other things as I don't want to divert the debate

But cruising is a luxury, not a necessity.  If you feel Princess is taking advantage of you or exploiting your need of internet, or conning you, there are many ways to spend your vacation funds. 

 

Have you seen the resort fees at hotels lately? Cruising remains the least expensive all inclusive vacation, and this is why tens of thousands of guests are currently sailing at this very moment. 

[dog]

Not sure why this thread keeps going.

Crew Appreciation is discretionary for those with Standard fare.

Plus & Premium Pkgs do not have the option of removing them.

 Your choice.

[rideev]

6 minutes ago, dog said:

Not sure why this thread keeps going.

Crew Appreciation is discretionary for those with Standard fare.

Plus & Premium Pkgs do not have the option of removing them.

 Your choice.

This right here.  It is the cruisers choice.  Nuff said.

 

 

And if you want to tip more, go for it.  Your choice.

[SCX22]

1 hour ago, Interestedcruisefan said:

Internet charges - I don't like the way they exploit the fact that so many passengers need internet daily (my wife and I do to keep in touch with our businesses in the UK daily) and charge fees that just dont exist exorbitant fees anywhere other than on cruise lines

 

You should research how much Starlink costs for residential service and then multiply that cost by the thousands for the cruise lines.  No doubt cruise lines are making money off of the Internet plans but Starlink is expensive to begin with.

[Boiler Cruiser]

https://www.indeed.com/career-advice/finding-a-job/jobs-on-a-cruise-ship

 

I found this article on the Indeed.com website.  It details the compensation of most positions on a cruise ship, from deckhand to Captain.

 

I mentions that the average salary for a Steward is $56,500.  Our Steward on our last cruise was from the Philipines.  If I were able to take a salary of $56,500 back home to my family in the Philipines, I would consider myself very well compensated, given the cost of living in that country.

[TRLD]

1 hour ago, voljeep said:

the Princess value of my Premier package is $1,174 for my 5 day cruise.

 

the Princess value of my CA is $80

 

80 / 1174 = 6.8%

 

6.8% x $80 = $5.44 CA or about $1.09 per day per person allocated to CA

 

that's the pure allocated maths

Pure math but somewhat bogus. That math assumes that the company is allocating onto various categories. What you are seeing is just the marketing calculation trying to get people to buy packages. Has no impact in reality upon where the money actually goes. 

 

 

[TRLD]

 

54 minutes ago, rideev said:

This right here.  It is the cruisers choice.  Nuff said.

 

 

And if you want to tip more, go for it.  Your choice.

That is what the regulation require for the treatment to apply under the accounting rules, just as they require all money, except for cc processing fees has to go to the employees that are members of the pool.

Edited May 30 by TRLD

[voljeep]

5 minutes ago, TRLD said:

Has no impact in reality upon where the money actually goes.

do you work in the Carnival Corporation allocation department?

 

Neither do I

[TRLD]

47 minutes ago, Boiler Cruiser said:

 

https://www.indeed.com/career-advice/finding-a-job/jobs-on-a-cruise-ship

 

I found this article on the Indeed.com website.  It details the compensation of most positions on a cruise ship, from deckhand to Captain.

 

I mentions that the average salary for a Steward is $56,500.  Our Steward on our last cruise was from the Philipines.  If I were able to take a salary of $56,500 back home to my family in the Philipines, I would consider myself very well compensated, given the cost of living in that country.

 

 

A friend of mine from the Philippines, a long time Steward with Princess, now retired, supported his family, put his daughter through medical school on his income from Princess. His son is now a Steward for the line.

 

As he put it there was no way he could have done that working in the Philippines.

[TRLD]

Just now, voljeep said:

do you work in the Carnival Corporation allocation department?

 

Neither do I

I do not, but the friend of mine that I quoted does work in Finance/Accounting in Santa Clarita.

[PescadoAmarillo]

1 hour ago, TRLD said:

For those cases where the a package is purchased the daily amount of the service charge is subtracted before the revenue is booked and the funds credited to the pool.

Wow. GAAP must have changed dramatically in the past 15 years. 

[voljeep]

6 minutes ago, TRLD said:

I do not, but the friend of mine that I quoted does work in Finance/Accounting in Santa Clarita.

at what level?

[TRLD]

1 hour ago, PescadoAmarillo said:

Wow. GAAP must have changed dramatically in the past 15 years. 

No Gaap has not changed. The allocation to the pool is not considered to be revenue. As such it is removed prior to revenue calculations.

 

Basically the same rules apply to the tip amount paid by  CC at a land restaurant. The tip amount is not considered to be revenue. It is tracked and payments made to employees, but the tip amount is not revenue and tip amount paid out are not expense.  Same rules that cover CA on cruise lines underbUS accounting rules.

 

They are a pass through. You could probably look at 10 small.companies books and they are tracked in 10 different ways. Some might track a tip account. But they are technically not revenue or expense.

 

At most under GAAP tips would be considered agency transactions and might show up as a liability on balance sheet, but would not be as revenue on the income statement.

 

 

 

As I understand it that is to keep companies from overstaying income by listing tips as revenue.

 

This is further complicated since all of the personnel are onboard ship and not located in the US so some of the accounting details that a shore based business would have do not apply such as withholding and reporting for US taxes.

Edited May 30 by TRLD

[TRLD]

1 hour ago, voljeep said:

at what level?

not going to post anything with the potential to identify them, including where I used to work with them.

[TRLD]

let me a couple other of bits of information that might shed some light on the scale of numbers we are talking about.. During the last quarterly filing. 

 

CCL lines had 23.5 million passenger averaged $153.9 in ticket revenue per passenger per day and $76.17 in on board spend revenue per passenger per day. The on board spend includes  packages, excursions, alcohol sale, etc.

 

From the last 10k Carnival, HAL and Princess account for 57% of CCLs total capacity all of which have similar crew appreciation. 

 

Out of the remaining 43%, 12% is P&O UK and Australia which does not and 30% is in Costa, AIDA, and Cunard which I do not know.

 

If we take the 57% that has gratuity system then that would be about 13.4 million passenger days which would (if we used $16 per day) be as much as 214.4 million dollars for the quarter if all paid. Clearly an amount to be material in filings if it had to be included. To put it perspective that is over 1/3 of all payroll expenses, About 2/3 of all food expense  and a little less than half of total fuel expense for all CCL lines, not just Princess, HAL, and Carnival.

Edited May 30 by TRLD

[memoak]

Is it just me or does anyone else think this thread has gone off the rails

[voljeep]

Box 1, 5, and 7 on an employees W-2?

[SCX22]

6 minutes ago, voljeep said:

Box 1, 5, and 7 on an employees W-2?

Moot point.  Most crew, if not all crew, that receive bonuses, tip, whatever you want to call it, don't have withholdings deducted nor are issued a W-2 because they aren't US Citizens and aren't subject to Social Security or IRS withholdings.  

[JimmyVWine]

9 minutes ago, voljeep said:

Box 1, 5, and 7 on an employees W-2?

Not arguing. Just asking. Given where ships are flagged and the countries from which the crew calls home, does the crew get a W-2, or file a U.S. Tax Return? Do GAAP rules apply?  Not sure how a steward from the Philippines who sails 6 months a year in the Med on a ship flagged in Bermuda gets a W-2 or files a U.S. Tax Return. But I honestly don’t know how any of this works. 

[JimmyVWine]

2 minutes ago, SCX22 said:

Most crew, if not all crew, that receive bonuses, tip, whatever you want to call it, don't have withholdings deducted nor are issued a W-2 because they aren't US Citizens and aren't subject to Social Security or IRS withholdings.

Simultaneous post to my questions above. Thanks.