Is this a new Gratuities policy?

[TRLD]

12 minutes ago, voljeep said:

Box 1, 5, and 7 on an employees W-2?

Only for US residents. Keep in mind that the CA is only for a subset of workers on board ship so US tax rules do not apply.

 

The only reason accounting rules do is because the corporation is listed on US exchanges.

 

The tax reporting rules is why land based system track tips for IRS reporting, but not revenue.

[TRLD]

3 minutes ago, JimmyVWine said:

Not arguing. Just asking. Given where ships are flagged and the countries from which the crew calls home, does the crew get a W-2, or file a U.S. Tax Return? Do GAAP rules apply?  Not sure how a steward from the Philippines who sails 6 months a year in the Med on a ship flagged in Bermuda gets a W-2 or files a U.S. Tax Return. But I honestly don’t know how any of this works. 

GAAP or alternate systems recognized by the SEC apply because the companies (RCL, CCL, and NCLH) are listed on US stock exchanges. As such they do have to follow US accounting rules.

 

The crew on board ship would not be under US tax law and as such would not file. If a crew member was a US resident then they would need to meet US tax reporting requirements.

 

As far as the Corporations are concerned the only thing subject to US corporate taxes is income related to things like Alaska land based tours were the tour occurs inside the US. The personnel working inside the US such as those working at the Corp HQ would be subject to US income tax.

 

Maritime law also comes into play.

[TRLD]

11 minutes ago, JimmyVWine said:

Not arguing. Just asking. Given where ships are flagged and the countries from which the crew calls home, does the crew get a W-2, or file a U.S. Tax Return? Do GAAP rules apply?  Not sure how a steward from the Philippines who sails 6 months a year in the Med on a ship flagged in Bermuda gets a W-2 or files a U.S. Tax Return. But I honestly don’t know how any of this works. 

Easy answer he doesn't. He would be subject to Philippines tax law as it applies to maritime workers.

[kirtihk]

18 hours ago, memoak said:

Is it just me or does anyone else think this thread has gone off the rails

If the cruise price was the 1-number (1 line-item on the invoice) price which is the cruise total price (with real all inclusive), the rails wouldn't be needed whatsoever at first place (no thread of such a topic would be generated).  From the other hand, there would be tons of other threads for that matter with variations of "Why don't I have a choice of selecting what I really need (maybe I don't want Wi-Fi, or multiple restaurants, or I'm not a drinker, I don't need a butler service or shore excursions, ...)?"

[2 cruises a year]

26 minutes ago, kirtihk said:

If the cruise price was the 1-number (1 line-item on the invoice) price which is the cruise total price (with real all inclusive), the rails wouldn't be needed whatsoever at first place (no thread of such a topic would be generated).  From the other hand, there would be tons of other threads for that matter with variations of "Why don't I have a choice of selecting what I really need (maybe I don't want Wi-Fi, or multiple restaurants, or I'm not a drinker, I don't need a butler service or shore excursions, ...)?"

You don't have to choose a package. Anything you like can be selected individually.

[voljeep]

16 minutes ago, 2 cruises a year said:

You don't have to choose a package. Anything you like can be selected individually.

and unlike the PLUS and Premier packages - both passengers in the same cabin, if applicable, don't have to purchase the same selections

[Rufford155]

On 5/29/2024 at 10:02 AM, Bgwest said:

Why is this surprising? “Crew Appreciation” (gratuities) is NOT a guest’s tipping the crew to show gratitude for a job well done. 
Instead of the cruise line paying THEIR employees a decent wage, they instead pay a substandard wage and look to their customers (us) to make up the shortfall THEY CREATED by way of the scheme they’ve devised and have cleverly disguised by using the ever so soft and cuddly phrase “crew appreciation”. 

I can only imagine the reaction of my customers if on every invoice I send I added a gratuities line item geared to make up for my stiffing my employees on every paycheck they receive. 
 

There outta be a law. A the saying goes. 

 

[Rufford155]

Isn't this the same all over the US ?

Low wages made up by tips.

Change your own culture if you want it put right.

[kywildcatfanone]

I'm  surprised many people.didnt know how tips worked and what they really were.

[Bgwest]

2 hours ago, Rufford155 said:

Isn't this the same all over the US ?

Low wages made up by tips.

Change your own culture if you want it put right.

I’ll get right on that 🤣🤣🤣

[edspec]

People don't want to pay tips.  Instead of admitting that to themselves they look for justification.  If you're going to stiff the staff at least be honest with yourself. 

Simple solution for those outraged by the policy...cruise on lines that handle it differently.  

[memoak]

20 hours ago, 2 cruises a year said:

You don't have to choose a package. Anything you like can be selected individually.

Yes but at a higher price. The beverage plus by it self is way too much when compared to a package

[memoak]

21 hours ago, kirtihk said:

If the cruise price was the 1-number (1 line-item on the invoice) price which is the cruise total price (with real all inclusive), the rails wouldn't be needed whatsoever at first place (no thread of such a topic would be generated).  From the other hand, there would be tons of other threads for that matter with variations of "Why don't I have a choice of selecting what I really need (maybe I don't want Wi-Fi, or multiple restaurants, or I'm not a drinker, I don't need a butler service or shore excursions, ...)?"

One price all inclusive would have people screaming I don’t want to pay for drinks or I don’t use WiFi why should I pay this etc.  This would start another long thread

[ldubs]

On 5/29/2024 at 2:02 AM, Bgwest said:

Why is this surprising? “Crew Appreciation” (gratuities) is NOT a guest’s tipping the crew to show gratitude for a job well done. 
Instead of the cruise line paying THEIR employees a decent wage, they instead pay a substandard wage and look to their customers (us) to make up the shortfall THEY CREATED by way of the scheme they’ve devised and have cleverly disguised by using the ever so soft and cuddly phrase “crew appreciation”. 

I can only imagine the reaction of my customers if on every invoice I send I added a gratuities line item geared to make up for my stiffing my employees on every paycheck they receive. 
 

There outta be a law. A the saying goes. 

 

The system of counting tips as wages you so violently disagree with is pretty common here in the restaurant business.  Though there are variations by State jurisdiction.  

   

[ldubs]

6 hours ago, Rufford155 said:

Isn't this the same all over the US ?

Low wages made up by tips.

Change your own culture if you want it put right.

 

No, it isn't all over the US.  It is limited to certain industries, the most common being tipped positions in restaurants.   In most states the legal minimum hourly wage is achieved by a lower hourly base + tips.  In my state, the legal minimum hourly must be paid before tips.  To be honest, while I'm completely comfortable with how to tip (or not), I would be OK moving away from this tipping culture.  The issue with changing is how to accomplish that and keep the employees whole.  I don't think it will ever happen organically.  It would need to be an across the board mandate.  

[TRLD]

28 minutes ago, ldubs said:

 

No, it isn't all over the US.  It is limited to certain industries, the most common being tipped positions in restaurants.   In most states the legal minimum hourly wage is achieved by a lower hourly base + tips.  In my state, the legal minimum hourly must be paid before tips.  To be honest, while I'm completely comfortable with how to tip (or not), I would be OK moving away from this tipping culture.  The issue with changing is how to accomplish that and keep the employees whole.  I don't think it will ever happen organically.  It would need to be an across the board mandate.  

A number of restaurants tried it a few years ago. Many in California. In most cases it flopped badly. The customers saw the higher prices that were higher to pay salaries without tips and in many cases stayed away. The employees did not like it because they made more from tips then their fixed wages. Most of the places that tried went back to tips pretty quickly.

 

 

 

Edited June 1 by TRLD

[ldubs]

2 minutes ago, TRLD said:

A number of restaurants tried it a few years ago. Many in California. In most cases it flopped badly. The customers saw the higher prices that were higher to pay salaries without tips and in many cases stayed away. The employees did not like it because they made more from tips then their fixed wages. Most of the places that tried went back to tips pretty quickly.

 

 

Exactly.   It is one of those things that will potentially cause financial harm to the employees.  That is my hesitation with changing.     

[TRLD]

Just now, ldubs said:

Exactly.   It is one of those things that will potentially cause financial harm to the employees.  That is my hesitation with changing.     

If you have ever been to Australia you notice the difference in how restaurants are run. The norm in the US has been for more employees when it comes to mid level dining. In Australia with much higher minimum wages many have 1 person that takes orders at the counter, then delivers the food to the table. Probably about 1/2 to 1/3 of the staff in a similar US venue.

 

California is now finding the same thing with its legislated $20 per hour minimum wage in fast food venues. Automation going in quickly, food prices going up, and positions being cut. Fewer employees, but the remaining employees make more. 

[MacMadame]

1 hour ago, ldubs said:

Exactly.   It is one of those things that will potentially cause financial harm to the employees.  That is my hesitation with changing.     

It has to change all at once or close to that.

 

I do think that we may be getting to a "tipping" point here in the US. The POS terminals in many establishments that don't normally get tips are programmed to ask for them and people are starting to rebel. I mean asking for tips at the tire store or a grocery store where you bag your own items? Ridiculous.

[roboref]

On 5/29/2024 at 9:30 AM, Bgwest said:

Yet this is exactly what cruise lines are hoodwinking us into doing. 
Well thought out post. 

Don't go on another cruise or go to any of the upscale lines and then you are not requested to tip. See. isn't it easy!

 

[roboref]

I just can't get to worked up about this in any way. I have always figured gratuities and now "customer appreciation" or a daily service charge as part of the price. Do these people who are all so worked up demand transparency on "port fees"? Do they demand to know the % split of the pooled tips at a restaurant? Or the price breakdown for an item on the shelf at the grocery store? Of course not. If it was so unfair to the workers on the cruise lines these workers would stay home and not go to the ship. I will pay the DSC or whatever it is called and cruise happily ever after!

[ldubs]

7 hours ago, MacMadame said:

It has to change all at once or close to that.

 

I do think that we may be getting to a "tipping" point here in the US. The POS terminals in many establishments that don't normally get tips are programmed to ask for them and people are starting to rebel. I mean asking for tips at the tire store or a grocery store where you bag your own items? Ridiculous.

 

Unless odd change, I do not leave a tip for counter service.  

[edspec]

44 minutes ago, roboref said:

I just can't get to worked up about this in any way. I have always figured gratuities and now "customer appreciation" or a daily service charge as part of the price. Do these people who are all so worked up demand transparency on "port fees"? Do they demand to know the % split of the pooled tips at a restaurant? Or the price breakdown for an item on the shelf at the grocery store? Of course not. If it was so unfair to the workers on the cruise lines these workers would stay home and not go to the ship. I will pay the DSC or whatever it is called and cruise happily ever after!

Excellent post, thank-you!!!!

[ldubs]

2 hours ago, roboref said:

I just can't get to worked up about this in any way. I have always figured gratuities and now "customer appreciation" or a daily service charge as part of the price. Do these people who are all so worked up demand transparency on "port fees"? Do they demand to know the % split of the pooled tips at a restaurant? Or the price breakdown for an item on the shelf at the grocery store? Of course not. If it was so unfair to the workers on the cruise lines these workers would stay home and not go to the ship. I will pay the DSC or whatever it is called and cruise happily ever after!

 

I think a lot of us feel the same but that doesn't preclude having a friendly (ahem) discussion. Ultimately, it is the system in place and should be followed.  

[TenneSea]

On 5/29/2024 at 8:14 AM, cruising.mark.uk said:

This, I think, is what causes the confusion.

 

Go back to post 1.  Princess are not calling the charge that this thread is about a gratuity.  They are calling it 'crew appreciation / service charge'.  That is the daily per person charge, which varies by cabin type.  Actually, I think the text quoted in post 1 gives a very clear and transparent explanation of how Princess uses those charges.   And I don't think anyone should be shocked that part of what they pay for their cruise is used for staff salaries / wages.

 

All cruise lines rely on customers to pay crew salaries.  I agree that in an ideal world that would all be included in one overall cruise fare.  But, for commercial / cultural reasons, that seems rare, apart from P&O in the UK and some of the very high end lines.  Other lines have daily service charges / crew appreciation charges and explain how those provide an element of crew compensation.  On some lines (e.g. MSC and Costa) those charges are mandatory and cannot be changed or removed.  On others, they can be adjusted.  I think it is pretty clear that these are not 'tips or 'gratuities'.

 

We're on a Princess cruise at the moment.  There is a separate 'gratuities' line entry on every food / beverage / service bill (typically 18 per cent, but adjustable).  That is the equivalent of what you are referring to in terms of land-based restaurants, not the crew appreciation / service charge that this thread was about originally.   

 

We have met many many fantastic staff on this 4-week cruise.  And most of the ones with whom we have interacted tell us they have been with Princess for multiple contracts over years and years.  Clearly, they are happy with what and how they are paid by Princess.  I know that we have contributed to them receiving a salary with which they are happy by paying our daily service charge as part of our package and the additional 18 per cent on goods and services not covered by that.  For us, it is just part of the cruise fare in the same way that when we go to a restaurant at home, an element of our food bill pays staff wages across the whole company and an element of our supermarket bill pays staff wages across the whole supermarket chain.  Those who wish to provide an additional gratuity to individual named staff members are welcome to do so.

<" Princess are not calling the charge that this thread is about a gratuity.  They are calling it 'crew appreciation / service charge'">

 

Wow, that's a pretty fine line there.  Do you speak lawyer-speak ?