NCL bait & switch to cheaper industrial ports?

[Mowzer]

 

NCL Dawn Spring 2024 Baltic Cruise - had indicated docking in major cities like Copenhagen, Stockholm, Helsinki, etc wherein public transportation was immediately available adjacent to the dock. However, upon arrival, we instead found ourselves instead docked at industrial ports next to loud giant dump trucks, and scrap heaps. There was no transportation other than an NCL $20 shuttle bus to drive the 10 miles into the respective cities. No port WiFi, or maps provided. Upon arrival into those city centers, we did indeed see OTHER more fortunate ships docked at those promised locations! The NCL port information, only available on the TV the night before docking had  promised docking in the convenient city center. There were no “port talks” or other information provided. Bait and switch, with a gullible, captive audience?  The NCL CEO has promised all sorts of cost cutting by ‘right-sizing our cost base through our ongoing margin enhancement initiative.' - is this corporate doublespeak for “sneaky silent service cutbacks”? Anyone else feeling this in 2024? 

 

From cutting food spend to ship dry dock NCLH 'razor-focused on costs'

 

https://www.wsj.com/articles/norwegian-cruise-line-looks-to-cut-costs-and-debtno-sacred-cows-738ed418

[Crazy planning mom]

Sorry to hear about your experience.  Try Celebrity, Princess, or Oceania.

[david_sobe]

You start your thread out by stating what ports were promised yet you dont say what was cancelled and where you went instead.   Major ports have construction and are also industrial too.  There is wifi on the ship.  Wifi at a port or city you dock at would have nothing to do with NCL.

[KeithJenner]

As we don’t know the actual itinerary it is difficult to tell whether the docking locations are as we would expect.

 

Both Copenhagen and Stockholm have multiple places that cruise ships can dock at, and the actual location varies depending on a number of factors. For example, Stockholm has a pier very central which can be used on a port visit, but there are no facilities for turn around so you are not going to dock there if it is the embarkation/disembarkation port. Those cruises will go to the bigger terminal outside the city.

 

For quite some time (from well before Covid), lines have also sometimes been docking at Nynashamm, which is much further from the city when just visiting.

 

Similarly at Copenhagen, ships visiting for the day may dock at Langeline, which is a fairly easy walk to the centre, but if on a turn around then they go to Nordhavnen. I’m not sure whether the Dawn is doing cruises to or from Copenhagen at the moment so if it went to Nordhavnen on a day stop then that would not be my expectation, but can happen depending on numbers of ships around. The decision on who gets what spots is likely to be down to more than money.

 

Every time I’ve been to Helsinki we have docked at the port that is a little way (although a very pleasant walk) from the city centre. It sounds like this is where the Dawn docked. I’ve only ever seen much smaller ships able to dock closer to the city.

 

Whilst it is always very tempting to blame everything on recent cutbacks, I can’t see anything in the OPs report, except maybe Copenhagen that wouldn’t have been my expectation on any cruise in the past 10-15 years. 

[graphicguy]

Assuming you're a new cruiser.  You'll find most ports to be "industrial".  Not sure which ports you saw the other ships, but perhaps they were smaller ships that are able to fit in smaller docks.  Just a guess.  You aren't going to find cruise ships docked in major downtown areas of the cities.  They are just too big and off load too many passengers at one time.

 

"Talks"?  Might be a little confused on this one.  There are slide shows in the Atrium of the NCL ships that outline the highlights of the ports. They are posted in the dailies.  

 

I find the shuttle busses NCL provides to be well worth it.  $20 for a 10 miles bus ride is actually pretty cheap.  Couldn't go 10 miles on an UBER for that amount.

 

Every port I've been to differs as to the availability of WiFi.  The ship, however, does have it.

 

Gullible passengers?  Ummmm....I've never felt gullible.  I do my research (here as a matter of fact) so I can get my bearings about the cruise.

 

But, if this was your first cruise (as it was your first post), welcome to CC.  Now you have some experience to build upon.

 

 

 

 

Edited June 7 by graphicguy

[schmoopie17]

Ever dreamed of going to romantic, scenic places like Florence, Tuscany, Pisa, Siena, etc.?

 

Guess what...the port for all of those beautiful places is Livorno.

And Livorno is (gasp) an industrial port.

 

Don't judge a book by its cover...and don't judge a region by its port.

[graphicguy]

7 minutes ago, schmoopie17 said:

Ever dreamed of going to romantic, scenic places like Florence, Tuscany, Pisa, Siena, etc.?

 

Guess what...the port for all of those beautiful places is Livorno.

And Livorno is (gasp) an industrial port.

 

Don't judge a book by its cover...and don't judge a region by its port.

Agree. 

 

Not sure where the "bait and switch" point comes from.  There are lots of ports which are industrial.  More often than not, that's where the cruise ships dock.

 

 

[kochleffel]

16 minutes ago, KeithJenner said:

Similarly at Copenhagen, ships visiting for the day may dock at Langeline, which is a fairly easy walk to the centre, but if on a turn around then they go to Nordhavnen. I’m not sure whether the Dawn is doing cruises to or from Copenhagen at the moment so if it went to Nordhavnen on a day stop then that would not be my expectation, but can happen depending on numbers of ships around.

 

The Dawn's May docking at Copenhagen was at Oceankaj, which is the main cruise terminal for embarkations (part of the Nordhavnen complex). Looking at the port schedules, there are few day calls at Langelinie--chiefly Viking, Seabourn, and AIDA ships. Holland America's Zuiderdam was also at Oceankaj yesterday and passengers complained in that forum about the distance, inconvenience, and cost of the shuttles. Oceankaj is served by bus to the Metro but day visitors tend not to know that.

[kitkat343]

I was on the NCL Star for my Baltic cruise.  For the Star, Helsinki was the only port we docked somewhere inconvenient (and the only cruises I saw docked in the city center were small very expensive ships - I think Seaborne or Oceana).  I don't know if larger ships can dock near Market Square, but someone on the Baltic board might be able to give you more information.

 

In Stockholm, only certain ships are cleared to  travel through the archipelago to reach Stockholm.  Cruises that are scheduled to dock in Nynäshamn are supposed to be listed on the itinerary as Stockholm (Nynäshamn) because these cruises miss the beautiful sail in through the archipelago, and require a train or bus ride to the city center.  It's a bit complicated because if there are adverse weather conditions, sailing through the archipelago is tricky and ships (especially larger ones) will be diverted to Nynäshamn due to weather.  Sailing to Stockholm versus Nynäshamn is actually a big deal for some cruisers - we chose the NCL Star over the Royal (or Regal ) Princess because the Princess ship hadn't yet been cleared to sail through the archipelago, and since we had a 3 year old with us we were concerned about being further away from Stockholm in case our child needed to return to the ship quickly.  But there was always a chance of our ship being diverted due to adverse weather conditions.  

 

Hopefully, others will report if there are consistent diversions or if this was a one time weather related incident (if you were actually diverted to Nynäshamn).  There are several places to dock in Stockholm itself, some of which are more central than others.  But when I planned my Baltic cruise, the only port location I was aware of needing to be mindful of in planning was Stockholm versus  Nynäshamn.  I don't remember being promised anything about where NCL would dock for the other locations.  However, if NCL is docking somewhere unusual and further than other mainstream cruise line ships (not Seaborne or Oceana) then that might be helpful information for other cruisers to know.  If you could give us a little more information that might be helpful.  There are also cruisers on the Baltic board who know more about the docking locations than I do and they might be able to explain what happened (for example I assumed Helsinki we docked further away due to larger ships not being able to dock closer but they might know if that is actually true).  

 

 

Edited June 7 by kitkat343

[ontheweb]

On other cruise lines I have seen things like Florence (Livorno) or Athens (Piraeus). But when we were on the Prima this past summer and went to a future's cruise presentation, their schedule handout actually listed the real port first, for example Livorno (Florence) and Piraeus (Athens). I found them more honest than the other cruise lines we have sailed on.

[kochleffel]

56 minutes ago, kitkat343 said:

if NCL is docking somewhere unusual and further than other mainstream cruise line ships (not Seaborne or Oceana) then that might be helpful information for other cruisers to know.

 

NCL is using Oceankaj, the same as all cruise lines except Seabourn, Viking, and AIDA this season.

 

Only cruise ships dock at Oceankaj; they're not docking right next to container ships, tankers, and the like. However, other docks in the massive Nordhavnen complex may be visible, especially on the road in and out.

 

[9tee2Sea]

every time I hear these types of stories, I get a strange feeling that someone is trying to set up  class action lawsuit against the cruise line for something.  In this " New World" of cruising, many cities are not allowing certain size ships to dock in close proximity to the town center.  

[Wayward Son]

6 hours ago, 9tee2Sea said:

every time I hear these types of stories, I get a strange feeling that someone is trying to set up  class action lawsuit against the cruise line for something. 

 

That, and they have no clue what a "bait and switch" actually is.

 

[julig22]

I often choose my cruises because of the unique itineraries. Unique very often equates to industrial docks - itinerary wouldn't be unique if they only stopped at ports built for cruise ships.

 

But I'm a little miffed at the charging for transportation to the city when it's not within reasonable walking distance. Shuttles are free for Alaska, I personally think they should be free at other ports as well.

[PartyPlannerLady]

15 hours ago, Mowzer said:

 

 

NCL Dawn Spring 2024 Baltic Cruise - had indicated docking in major cities like Copenhagen, Stockholm, Helsinki, etc wherein public transportation was immediately available adjacent to the dock. However, upon arrival, we instead found ourselves instead docked at industrial ports next to loud giant dump trucks, and scrap heaps. There was no transportation other than an NCL $20 shuttle bus to drive the 10 miles into the respective cities. No port WiFi, or maps provided. Upon arrival into those city centers, we did indeed see OTHER more fortunate ships docked at those promised locations! The NCL port information, only available on the TV the night before docking had  promised docking in the convenient city center. There were no “port talks” or other information provided. Bait and switch, with a gullible, captive audience?  The NCL CEO has promised all sorts of cost cutting by ‘right-sizing our cost base through our ongoing margin enhancement initiative.' - is this corporate doublespeak for “sneaky silent service cutbacks”? Anyone else feeling this in 2024? 

 

From cutting food spend to ship dry dock NCLH 'razor-focused on costs'

 

https://www.wsj.com/articles/norwegian-cruise-line-looks-to-cut-costs-and-debtno-sacred-cows-738ed418

 

Ports are NOT 'promised' by anyone.  They can be changed at any time for any reaon for ALL cruise lines.  There was no bait and switch.  All busineses attempt to minimize cost.  Do nyou not comprehend what the point of a business is?

[njkate]

You need to do your research as far as ports. On some cruises the port is listed as Paris some list Berlin both are a good 3 hours away from where ship docks.

Out cruise listed Stockholm but we docked at Nynasham

[CruiseMH]

14 hours ago, julig22 said:

I personally think they should be free at other ports as well.

 

If they are "free" then they are actually only included in the cruise fare.In this case all guests would have to pay even if they don`t use it(due to having a private excursion)

 

[graphicguy]

I guess I'm trying to understand how "free shuttles" would work?  Where do you want these shuttles to drop you off?  

[debenson0723]

1 minute ago, graphicguy said:

I guess I'm trying to understand how "free shuttles" would work?  Where do you want these shuttles to drop you off?  

They typically drop you off in the city center and then pick you up at the same spot throughout the day. I had them in several ports on my Baltic cruise...some free, some a few dollars. Mazatlan is an industrial port also and you get a shuttle that takes you to outside the gates and then you are in town. 

[graphicguy]

8 minutes ago, debenson0723 said:

They typically drop you off in the city center and then pick you up at the same spot throughout the day. I had them in several ports on my Baltic cruise...some free, some a few dollars. Mazatlan is an industrial port also and you get a shuttle that takes you to outside the gates and then you are in town. 

OK.

 

I know I did Mediterranean Cruises.  That would have people going to some very different areas from the port.  So, I guess a bus would have to drop people off in different parts of the city.

 

Use Rome as an example, is the city center the Coliseum?  Or would it be Capitoline Hill?

 

Paris?  By the Seine river or near the Louvre?

 

Point being, it would be next to impossible to know where people want to go with a shuttle.

 

I always get the ship's shuttles when in a port and take an uber/taxi to where I want to go.  The $20 shuttle to go 10 miles that was mentioned is a bargain.

 

Been to Alaska several times.  It's so sparse that there's usually only ONE place that a bus could drop you off that would be considered a "downtown" area.

 

 

Edited June 8 by graphicguy

[julig22]

29 minutes ago, graphicguy said:

I guess I'm trying to understand how "free shuttles" would work?  Where do you want these shuttles to drop you off?  

Drop off would be the same place as the $10-$20 shuttles.

[graphicguy]

1 minute ago, julig22 said:

Drop off would be the same place as the $10-$20 shuttles.

OK...where?  Some (most?) would complain they don't want to be dropped off at that locale.

 

I'm hearing..."I want a shuttle to drop me off free somewhere".  Where?  Dense areas like EU cities have all sorts of places a bus could go.

Edited June 8 by graphicguy

[julig22]

54 minutes ago, CruiseMH said:

 

If they are "free" then they are actually only included in the cruise fare.In this case all guests would have to pay even if they don`t use it(due to having a private excursion)

 

The same way that the FAS benefits, BOGO airfare, shuttles in some ports, tenders etc. are included in cruise fare.

Mostly I'd include it because people that aren't taking NCL excursions aren't necessarily expecting to have to pay when their plan is to simply explore the port.

[graphicguy]

Well...now people who are reading this thread know that there are some ports where shuttles go somewhere, cost something, sometimes!  Plan accordingly!

Edited June 8 by graphicguy

[schmoopie17]

45 minutes ago, graphicguy said:

OK...where?  Some (most?) would complain they don't want to be dropped off at that locale.

 

I'm hearing..."I want a shuttle to drop me off free somewhere".  Where?  Dense areas like EU cities have all sorts of places a bus could go.

Barcelona is an excellent example of a huge city with tons of places to go and see.

 

They have a port shuttle for 3 euro ($4.50 round trip) that drops off at the Columbus statue at the end of Las Ramblas. From there you can get anywhere else you want to go.