Opinion on Pre-Paying Ship Staff Gratuities Prior to Cruise Embarkment

[cr8tiv1]

1 minute ago, TRLD said:

Not administrative costs, only credit card processing fees. Subtracting administrative fees are not allowed 

 

Thanks, I consider any costs to distribute funds as "administrative costs".  Financial term is not my thing and lost on me.  Glad there are others more savvy.

[Shaver John]

I understand that it will not make much of a difference, but if the price of the tips go up before you cruise you will be paying the increased price, I know it will be only like a few dollars, or if you are going on a long cruise it can be much more. I think we are paying $19+ each, so we are paying up front in the package so it will not go up. As our cruises are usually a year or so out, it is not uncommon for some prices to rise. But, if it is a short cruise, then, it will not be much of a difference I guess. We like the plus or premiere package, depending on cruise, so at least that includes everything.

[dog]

18 hours ago, memoak said:

Why not pay $0 and clean your own food and eat all meals in the buffet. Please don’t eat in any of the restaurants I frequent and stiff the staff . I would rather have happy servers than people who are unhappy 

I am truly sorry that fellow cruisers feel this way.

 

I try my best to show respect to others who do not live and do the same as I do.

 

Please be kind.

[Lady Arwen]

23 minutes ago, dog said:

I am truly sorry that fellow cruisers feel this way.

 

I try my best to show respect to others who do not live and do the same as I do.

 

Please be kind.

I sincerely believe that @memoak is being kind to the entire crew of all Princess ships.  I feel the same way.  Let’s just leave it at that, shall we.

[Princessfan20]

57 minutes ago, dog said:

I am truly sorry that fellow cruisers feel this way.

 

I try my best to show respect to others who do not live and do the same as I do.

 

Please be kind.

 

Well said.  People need to worry about how they do their business on a cruise ship and stay out of other people's business on a cruise ship.  

[smwg]

To the Original Poster:  When I have OBC's to use, I wait and pay gratuities once on board.  If I do NOT have any OBC's, I pay ahead of time, just so I don't have a big bill at the end of the cruise.   Hope you have a fantastic cruise!

[TRLD]

18 hours ago, Princessfan20 said:

You certainly are a brave sole to be so honest.  Nobody really knows how much people tip or where it really goes.  There have been so many stories recently in the US how people think the tipping culture is out of hand and they are tired of it.  Princess changed the way they encourage people to tip from you decide to we will decide for you.

 

I do not see people on cruise ships working any harder than people in other service industries like Las Vegas Casinos, airlines or Disneyland entertainment parks, etc.  

 

They are just doing a job they signed up for and nobody shanghaied them to work on a ship.

 

 

They signed up to do the job by signing a work contract that states that their position is part of the gratuity pool and payments from it are a substantial part of the compensation.

 

Yes we do know where the money paid for crew appreciation goes. As required by accounting regulations, contract, and Princess's own printed policy statement to the crew members of the pool.

 

 

[Lady Arwen]

4 minutes ago, TRLD said:

They signed up to do the job by signing a work contract that states that their position is part of the gratuity pool and payments from it are a substantial part of the compensation.

 

Yes we do know where the money paid for crew appreciation goes. As required by accounting regulations, contract, and Princess's own printed policy statement to the crew members of the pool.

 

 

I sincerely hope this is the last word we need to hear regarding gratuities.  It says it all.  Thank you.

[memoak]

2 hours ago, Princessfan20 said:

 

Well said.  People need to worry about how they do their business on a cruise ship and stay out of other people's business on a cruise ship.  

In that case I assume everyone is going to stop complaining about chair hogs, older men hitting on young women,  people shoving their way in to elevators, people grabbing food in the buffet, people starting political or religious arguments etc.

[TRLD]

2 hours ago, Princessfan20 said:

 

Well said.  People need to worry about how they do their business on a cruise ship and stay out of other people's business on a cruise ship.  

Fortunately for you, the same regulations that requires the money to go to the crew give you the option to adjust it.

[vantec]

On our last cruise two ports were cancelled - we were given non refundable OBC in compensation, taxes and port fees were returned and, since we had prepaid for ship's excursions, that money was put on our folio as refundable OBC. For that reason, I would not pre pay gratuities, we ended up with a lot of unexpected OBC.

[frugaltravel]

22 hours ago, TRLD said:

Upon what do you base that analysis?

 

Accounting regulations are pretty clear and are in line with exactly what Princess states in the policy.  The only money that the cruiseline is allowed to subtract is the actual cost of the credit card processing charges.For a large company it would be 2% or less. So out of $17 paid by CC $16.66 or more would go into the crew gratuity pool, and 34 cents to pay for CC processing charges.

 

You have repeatedly made this phony claim with nothing to back it up.

Can you please share a link to back your claims up? Thanks.

[frugaltravel]

59 minutes ago, vantec said:

On our last cruise two ports were cancelled - we were given non refundable OBC in compensation, taxes and port fees were returned and, since we had prepaid for ship's excursions, that money was put on our folio as refundable OBC. For that reason, I would not pre pay gratuities, we ended up with a lot of unexpected OBC.

I have no desire to pay for almost anything in advance if not needed to. To prepay just to have a lower bill later makes no sense to me. I'm paying the exact same amount whether I pay in payments or pay a lump sum. Maybe those who have money in a bank account are tempted to spend it on something else. Fortunately I don't have that problem.

Edited June 8 by frugaltravel

[TRLD]

4 hours ago, frugaltravel said:

Can you please share a link to back your claims up? Thanks.

I can give you quite a few.  However to do so will require walking down the chain of reverences.

 

They start with the definition of tips and have to go through the following subjects.  Most of which that are easily available deal with US IRS filings and therefor not applicable.

 

1.  Tips are voluntary (i.e can be adjusted) and how they differ from service charges, which cannot.

2. That since cruise line holding companies file on US stock exchanges 

3.  That under GAAP tips are treated as pass through for employees.  They are not revenue to the corporation, nor are they expense.  The only place that they show up are a cash liability for only the amount received, but not yet distributed.  To get that accounting treatment they must be 1. tips not service charges and they must be fully distributed to employees that are members of the pool.

4. That CCL SEC filings do not show any crew appreciation are either revenue nor expense

5. Princess cruise line employment contracts do include that the crew appreciation payouts are included as part of their compensation

 

Princess also in their policy statement pretty much the same thing.  Which if it was not valid would give them a certain degree of legal liability.

 

Since you want links, I assume that you want the sources as much as possible and will want to wade through the materials yourself to find the applicable portions in context.  

 

So how much of this do you really want to see or was it just an exercise to see if I would actually do the work?

 

I will give you the most applicable portion which is the cruise lines own statement.

 

Which can be found under

ttps://www.princess.com/en-us/faq/onboard-experience

 

All of the Crew Appreciation and Service Charge payments made by all guests on all ships in our fleet are pooled, net of credit card transaction fees. The pooled funds are distributed throughout the year in the form of compensation, including bonuses, to crewmembers fleetwide who interact directly with guests and/or behind the scenes throughout every cruise, including those in the Bar, Dining, Entertainment, Housekeeping, Guest Services, Galley and Onboard Revenue areas.

[Lady Arwen]

24 minutes ago, TRLD said:

I can give you quite a few.  However to do so will require walking down the chain of reverences.

 

They start with the definition of tips and have to go through the following subjects.  Most of which that are easily available deal with US IRS filings and therefor not applicable.

 

1.  Tips are voluntary (i.e can be adjusted) and how they differ from service charges, which cannot.

2. That since cruise line holding companies file on US stock exchanges 

3.  That under GAAP tips are treated as pass through for employees.  They are not revenue to the corporation, nor are they expense.  The only place that they show up are a cash liability for only the amount received, but not yet distributed.  To get that accounting treatment they must be 1. tips not service charges and they must be fully distributed to employees that are members of the pool.

4. That CCL SEC filings do not show any crew appreciation are either revenue nor expense

5. Princess cruise line employment contracts do include that the crew appreciation payouts are included as part of their compensation

 

Princess also in their policy statement pretty much the same thing.  Which if it was not valid would give them a certain degree of legal liability.

 

Since you want links, I assume that you want the sources as much as possible and will want to wade through the materials yourself to find the applicable portions in context.  

 

So how much of this do you really want to see or was it just an exercise to see if I would actually do the work?

 

I will give you the most applicable portion which is the cruise lines own statement.

 

Which can be found under

ttps://www.princess.com/en-us/faq/onboard-experience

 

All of the Crew Appreciation and Service Charge payments made by all guests on all ships in our fleet are pooled, net of credit card transaction fees. The pooled funds are distributed throughout the year in the form of compensation, including bonuses, to crewmembers fleetwide who interact directly with guests and/or behind the scenes throughout every cruise, including those in the Bar, Dining, Entertainment, Housekeeping, Guest Services, Galley and Onboard Revenue areas.

What he said.  He’s really, really smart.

[rideev]

On 6/7/2024 at 1:58 PM, memoak said:

Why not pay $0 and clean your own food and eat all meals in the buffet. Please don’t eat in any of the restaurants I frequent and stiff the staff . I would rather have happy servers than people who are unhappy 

Better yet, I'll just let you add extra gratuities and that will make you feel better and the staff won't get "stiffed."

[rideev]

9 hours ago, TRLD said:

They signed up to do the job by signing a work contract that states that their position is part of the gratuity pool and payments from it are a substantial part of the compensation.

Wrong again

[rideev]

1 hour ago, Lady Arwen said:

What he said.  He’s really, really smart.

Except for the fact that they aren't tips at all, it is Crew Appreciation.  I know, semantics right?  If that were the case, why did they change from gratuities to crew appreciation?

 

Best part is, one can do whichever they want.  They can remove, lower, leave alone, or increase CA at GS.  People can also give additional cash to whomever they please.  

 

It is not a one size fits all kind of thing.  You do you, I'll do me.  That way we can both be happy at the end of our cruise.

 

[TRLD]

6 minutes ago, rideev said:

Wrong again

Again upon what do you make that claim.  I have seen a Princess employment contract

[TRLD]

28 minutes ago, rideev said:

Except for the fact that they aren't tips at all, it is Crew Appreciation.  I know, semantics right?  If that were the case, why did they change from gratuities to crew appreciation?

 

Best part is, one can do whichever they want. They can remove, lower, leave alone, or increase CA at GS.  People can also give additional cash to whomever they please.  

 

It is not a one size fits all kind of thing.  You do you, I'll do me.  That way we can both be happy at the end of our cruise.

 

Too funny.  Companies can call it whatever they want.  One would expect that the change was based upon what appeals the most to their customer base. During the time that this systems has been in place they have used different names to refer to the system. Tips is basically a US approach, gratuity has several meanings in different countries.  For example in many places it refers to payouts such as excess sick leave and vacation paid at retirement. Going to a term such as crew appreciation makes it a term that conveys the purpose as well as does not carry baggage with other terms.

 

What makes the difference is if they meet the criteria for tips as specified under accounting regulations including under GAAP. The most important is that they are optional.   Another is that the money collected except for credit card processing fees must be fully distributed.

 

Yes one can choose to do what they want when it comes to paying. The rules under which the system is operated allows that.  I have always said that.

 

What is funny is how people that do not like the system seem to always having to attack the system by implying that it is corrupt, that the crew doesn't get the money, etc.   Like they have a need to convince others what they are doing is justified.

 

 

Edited June 9 by TRLD

[frugaltravel]

On 6/7/2024 at 9:58 AM, memoak said:

Why not pay $0 and clean your own food and eat all meals in the buffet. Please don’t eat in any of the restaurants I frequent and stiff the staff . I would rather have happy servers than people who are unhappy 

Your philosophy is wrong. Even eating all the meals in the buffet does not exempt someone from paying gratuities or tips or crew appreciation or whatever you want to call it.

 

Also, the staff on the ship does not directly get everything that is given by passengers on that cruise ship. It's divided worldwide.

[TRLD]

8 hours ago, frugaltravel said:

Can you please share a link to back your claims up? Thanks.

Here is another.  You 

 

1 minute ago, frugaltravel said:

Your philosophy is wrong. Even eating all the meals in the buffet does not exempt someone from paying gratuities or tips or crew appreciation or whatever you want to call it.

 

Also, the staff on the ship does not directly get everything that is given by passengers on that cruise ship. It's divided worldwide.

Yes it is.  Prior to this it was pooled by ship, by cruise.  However, that made for some very unhappy crew.  Depending upon where a ship was based, and the make up of the mix of passengers, some ships got much lower tips, totally independent of performance.  Back then crew hated getting assigned to a ship sailing out of Southampton for example.  This was due to their being many more UK passengers, and more tips removed or reduced.

 

In order to solve that problem the pools went fleetwide.  That way a crew member was not negatively impacted by a less favorable assignment.  

 

This link is to an employment terms and conditions from back in the days when the pool was by ship and cruise.

 

https://www.inozemstvo-posao.com/forumattachments/02-Terms_&_Conditions_of_Employment.pdf

[memoak]

6 minutes ago, frugaltravel said:

Your philosophy is wrong. Even eating all the meals in the buffet does not exempt someone from paying gratuities or tips or crew appreciation or whatever you want to call it.

 

Also, the staff on the ship does not directly get everything that is given by passengers on that cruise ship. It's divided worldwide.

It is not a philosophy it was a tongue in cheek reply to people who remove all their CA because they don’t believe in tipping. When I was a server in restaurants we figured out who those people are and reacted appropriately 

[JimmyVWine]

37 minutes ago, frugaltravel said:

Also, the staff on the ship does not directly get everything that is given by passengers on that cruise ship. It's divided worldwide.

Why is this a problem?  Imagine that you and your best friend decide to apply for jobs with Princess and after going through the rigorous hiring process you both get jobs in food service. Your friend is assigned to a Port Everglades ship sailing in the Caribbean and you are assigned to a Sydney based ship sailing around Australia. You do the same work with the same responsibilities and hours. Now assume that the crew gets paid only the gratuity amount that is collected for that ship for its own cruises. Explain how this is fair and why your friend should earn thousands of dollars more than you. Go!

[frugaltravel]

3 hours ago, JimmyVWine said:

Why is this a problem?  Imagine that you and your best friend decide to apply for jobs with Princess and after going through the rigorous hiring process you both get jobs in food service. Your friend is assigned to a Port Everglades ship sailing in the Caribbean and you are assigned to a Sydney based ship sailing around Australia. You do the same work with the same responsibilities and hours. Now assume that the crew gets paid only the gratuity amount that is collected for that ship for its own cruises. Explain how this is fair and why your friend should earn thousands of dollars more than you. Go!

Lol. I guess you did not read what I wrote. I never mentioned the word problem. Only you did. 😂

Edited June 9 by frugaltravel