Best airplanes/airlines for a NY to SYD long haul flight?

[Skippy442]

Looking to book a NY to SYD flight for an upcoming cruise in April 2025. Deciding between premium economy and business. Is business worth twice the price? When will the best prices be offered? Which airplanes have the best seats with regards to comfort (seat width, pitch)? Which airlines do you recommend? What is the minimum layover time I should have? What are the best layover cities in order to minimize delays and cancellations, easiest to navigate? The most options are at LAX and HNG. Any wisdom would be appreciated.

[CruiserBruce]

First, welcome to Cruise Critic!

 

Second, what does "best" mean to you.

 

Third, "worth it" is a very subjective term, meaning lots of different things to lots of people. That being said, Business is definitely worth it for any flight of that duration, or even much shorter, in our opinion.

 

HNG? What is that?

 

A common way to SYD is through SFO or LAX. In both cases, the flights leave at 10pm or thereabouts. That would present you the option of departing mid day out of NY, arriving on the West Coast around 6pm or so, with a very safe layover time.

 

I imagine you could go east, with one connection in a variety of European connection airports. I am not experienced in that routing, so others will have to comment.

[Astro Flyer]

I just researched a LAX to Brisbane flight in March 2025. After reading & watching video reviews, for me Air New Zealand is our best option. We decided on ANZ’s Premium Economy for a few reasons…seat with a good legrest, more room with a 41” pitch vs 38” in most other airlines’ PE and a better meal service…some reviewers said they got 8 hours of sleep on the 13 hour portion between LAX & Auckland in PE.

 

Obviously as CruiserBruce wrote, there is no best for everyone & that flights from JFK will usually make West Coast stops. For their Premium Economy booking ANZ flies passengers on Alaska JFK/SFO in Economy, on ANZ SFO/AKL in PE and then AKL/SYD in Economy. When booking your flights check to confirm the class for each flight because all of them might not be in the same class.
 

I haven’t checked all airlines & will use booking sites such as Travelocity to check all flight options. I also check the cruise line’s air program which for our PE flights (LAX/AKL/BNE) booked through Princess’ EZair they were 20% less expensive than a direct booking with options to change or cancel up until 45 days in advance.

 

Here are ANZ’s prices by class for JFK/SFO/AKL/SYD in mid April 2025 which seems to be standard for flights that I have checked…PE is about half the price of the BC airfare.

 

Economy

$1,079

skycouch™ available

Premium Economy

$2,888

Business

$6,391

 

Edited June 26 by Astro Flyer

[Skippy442]

Sorry, I meant HKG (Hong Kong). It looks like a number of flights from  NY layover there.

 

Thanks for your comments.

 

[CruiserBruce]

JFK-HKG -SYD is 25 or so hours flight time, not counting whatever lay over you have. 

 

JFK-West Coast-SYD should be under 20 hours, not counting connections, with the JFK-West Coast being normal awake time. 

 

I won't fly through HKG.

[Astro Flyer]

Checking EZair, there are PE flights available flying west (HKG-$1863) or east (SIN-$2015) from JFK.

 

 

 

Edited June 26 by Astro Flyer

[Zach1213]

14 hours ago, Astro Flyer said:

Checking EZair, there are PE flights available flying west (HKG-$1863) or east (SIN-$2015) from JFK.
 

 

Fun fact (well, to me) is that JFK-HKG will probably go east too. Well, more like north northeast, with an emphasis on the north. 

[Shorex]

4 hours ago, Zach1213 said:

 

Fun fact (well, to me) is that JFK-HKG will probably go east too. Well, more like north northeast, with an emphasis on the north. 

Way north 🙂

 

http://www.gcmap.com/mapui?P=jfk-hkg

[d9704011]

4 hours ago, Zach1213 said:

 

Fun fact (well, to me) is that JFK-HKG will probably go east too. Well, more like north northeast, with an emphasis on the north. 

You sure about that easterly component?

[d9704011]

On 6/26/2024 at 1:04 PM, Skippy442 said:

The most options are at LAX and HNG. Any wisdom would be appreciated

I recommend you look at Delta Premium Economy JFK/LAX/SYD.

[Astro Flyer]

Checking Singapore flight #23 listed in Princess EZair here’s the route of that flight currently flying JFK/SIN…it begins with a typical US to Europe route before turning southeast to SIN. For Cathay Pacific #843 (JFK/HKG) it’s what I believe is called the Polar route & is not westbound as I incorrectly presumed.

 

SIA #23

 

 

 

CPA #843

 

[GeezerCouple]

1 hour ago, d9704011 said:

You sure about that easterly component?

When we took the then-longest flight back in 2019, from Newark to Singapore, on Singapore Airlines, I just assumed we'd be heading west, based upon nothing at all.

So we were rather surprised as we watched the plane route map as we progressed... to the EAST.  Almost right over Moscow (it was 2019; no way would that be the route now).

And then there was Kabul, Afghanistan, a bit to the south of our route... and on and on... Watching that map was quite a fun surprise!

 

So yes, "easterly"!

Or at least some of the time; we've only taken that flight once.

 

(We went business class and used "Book The Cook", and had the best airline food ever.  My dinner choice was a sort of short ribs, the most tender and flavorful ever.  I would have been very pleased to be served that at some high-end restaurant, it was that good.  Even the breakfast choice was delicious.  Amazing.

And we used points.  Many of our points are bonus points in addition to the points for spending, so we get more "value" from them.)

 

Back in 2019, the flight from JFK to Singapore had a stop in Frankfurt, so we knew that one would be heading "easterly", but it hadn't occurred to us that a non-stop would also go "easterly".

 

Note that we definitely did not take a polar route as shown in this link (although this mapped route is to Hong Kong, which is quite different from Singapore, obviously!):

1 hour ago, Shorex said:

Way north 🙂

 

http://www.gcmap.com/mapui?P=jfk-hkg

 

On a different flight, non-stop from HKG to USA east coast, we went up the coast of Asia, near Tokyo, and then headed back down sort of the Alaska coast.  That could look a bit like a polar-ish route, but it didn't get close to the polar region.

Again, it was an easterly route.

 

Question:  How much does the wind direction/speed affect the route?

Do the flights that go half-way around tend to always go easterly. and thus not reverse the same route, or do they head east in one direction and west in another?

GC

[Astro Flyer]

19 minutes ago, GeezerCouple said:

Almost right over Moscow (it was 2019; no way would that be the route now).

Very true… Today’s flight en route to HKG goes nowhere near Moscow.

 

 

Edited June 28 by Astro Flyer

[d9704011]

22 minutes ago, GeezerCouple said:

So yes, "easterly"!

JFK to SIN.... some easterly  component.

 

JFK to HKG.... no easterly component (see post 7 and my response to that).

 

Check your longitudes and great circles.

Edited June 28 by d9704011

[em-sk]

Don't know how it compare to the other routes.

 

I have been on the Newark-Vancouver flight a number of times where a good percentage of people are connecting onward to Australia from Vancouver.   

 

Canada, US and most European countries have banned Russian airlines from their airspace.  In return Russia has banned them from Russian airspace. If your on Air Canada or a western airline your guaranteed your not flying over Russia.  An airlines like Cathy Pacific being a Chinese airline is allowed to fly over Russia. 

 

The likelihood of an emergency landing is extremely remote, however given the state of the world today, Even through it is remote, given the current situation in the world, if I can easily avoid a flight over that part of the world I would.  

 

 

Edited June 30 by em-sk

[Zach1213]

On 6/28/2024 at 12:50 PM, d9704011 said:

JFK to HKG.... no easterly component (see post 7 and my response to that).

 

Check your longitudes and great circles.

 

Great Circle isn't always reality as it doesn't factor winds in to the equation. JFK-HKG Great Circle does, in fact, go pretty much due north over Quebec, Nunavut, North Pole, and down through eastern Russia and the extreme eastern tip of Mongolia. In reality, though, it doesn't often do that. For example, CX843 JFK-HKG that is in the air right now went NNE out of JFK over Mass., Maine, New Brunswick, eastern Quebec, Labrador, Greenland, and then over Russia (though not as far east in Russia as Great Circle says it should) and central Mongolia, and is currently over Inner Mongolia Autonomous Region. So yes...usually it does have at least some easterly component because the "due north" route isn't as advantageous due to winds. 

 

TL;DR - great circle isn't reality, it's just the shortest line. 

Edited July 1 by Zach1213

[d9704011]

1 hour ago, Zach1213 said:

 

Great Circle isn't always reality as it doesn't factor winds in to the equation. JFK-HKG Great Circle does, in fact, go pretty much due north over Quebec, Nunavut, North Pole, and down through eastern Russia and the extreme eastern tip of Mongolia. In reality, though, it doesn't often do that. For example, CX843 JFK-HKG that is in the air right now went NNE out of JFK over Mass., Maine, New Brunswick, eastern Quebec, Labrador, Greenland, and then over Russia (though not as far east in Russia as Great Circle says it should) and central Mongolia, and is currently over Inner Mongolia Autonomous Region. So yes...usually it does have at least some easterly component because the "due north" route isn't as advantageous due to winds. 

 

TL;DR - great circle isn't reality, it's just the shortest line. 

Well, gee... of course aircraft don't fly great circles.  Routing(s) can change for all kind of reasons.  Ships seldom take GC routes either; usually some sort of composite route depending on operational needs.

[Zach1213]

9 minutes ago, d9704011 said:

Well, gee... of course aircraft don't fly great circles.  Routing(s) can change for all kind of reasons.  Ships seldom take GC routes either; usually some sort of composite route depending on operational needs.

I mean, you're the one that said "no easterly component" and that people should "check the great circles", and now you're saying they don't fly great circle...I just went on to say that, in this case, the "great circles" are pretty much useless and that CX843, my chosen example of the mutiple daily JFK-HKG flights, has had an easterly component pretty much every flight in recent history. 

[d9704011]

7 minutes ago, Zach1213 said:

I mean, you're the one that said "no easterly component" and that people should "check the great circles", and now you're saying they don't fly great circle...I just went on to say that, in this case, the "great circles" are pretty much useless and that CX843, my chosen example of the mutiple daily JFK-HKG flights, has had an easterly component pretty much every flight in recent history. 

I was mistaken.  JFK to HKG would have easterly components.

Edited July 1 by d9704011

[Hlitner]

I love this topic and want to take it to a new level, which is whether one should even consider business or premium economy.  Until DW and I were about 60, we had always flown in the the least expensive economy seats and always sought out the lowest cost airlines.  But then we go lucky and were offered a terrific upgrade deal on a SAS flight (to Copenhagen) and discovered international business class.  For the past 15 years, we have only flown business or (rarely) premium economy on longer international flights.  In fact, we will no longer consider economy on longer flights across the Pacific, or overnight flights to Europe.  Although this does cost us a lot of extra money, we now consider it an important part of our trip planning.  To us, the air part of our trips (and we take many trips) is now part of the fun/joy of travel.

 

Getting to the actual topic of the thread, when it comes to flying from North America to Asia/Australia/NZ, we primarily fly the better Asian airlines (Singapore, Cathy Pacific, Air China, Korean, JAL, etc).  We consider the North American airlines (United, Delta, Air Canada, AA) as our carrier of last resort.  The US airlines do get many things right, but they still do not measure up to many of the foreign carriers.  We have an upcoming flight on United Polaris Class (to Europe) and perhaps this will be a game changer..

 

So what is the difference with the foreign carriers?  While it can be difficult to put it all into a few paragraphs, they generally excel at the overall "package" from the moment we arrive at the airport until we depart the airport.  When DW and I tried Delta One (from Narita to Detroit) we were excited to be on a very new (only 2 weeks old) A350 in their new semi-private business class seats.  The seats were good (until DW's small door would not open) but the problem with that flight was best expressed by the chief flight attendant (who we had met on a previous Delta trip).  Soon after we boarded I asked him, how is the food?  His response was, the hardware (aircraft) is terrific, but the food is "typical Delta food."  Anyone who has flown on Singapore Business Class will quickly understand the difference between Delta One, and Singapore Business.  Fly Air China (not to be confused with China Air) and sip JW Blue, and you will quickly understand the difference from Delta One or Untied Polaris  Fly Turkish Air, with its restaurant-like cart service (from an employee dressed in a chef's outfit) and one wonders why the US airlines do not spend a few extra dollars to upgrade all things cuisine.

 

As to Sydney, if flying Premium Economy we would try to do it on Air New Zealand.  Failing that, we would look to other foreign carriers (i.e. Quantas).  Sorry Delta One, you may be one of the best US-based options, but you still need to make some improvements, once onboard.

 

Hank

 

 

[Gardyloo]

Once my wife and I started buying business class round-the-world tickets it was game over for longhaul economy, or even PE, for us.  This is a topic I keep raising (I probably should add it to the "FAQ" thread but that thread doesn't get a lot of traffic it seems.) But it might be of use for cruisers who (a) like to ride in the pointy end but not spend the family fortune to do so and (b) do more than one trip a year, cruise or not.  

 

The idea is you buy a "RTW" ticket that's good for up to 16 flights (takeoffs and landings) over the space of 12 months.  You have to cross both the Pacific and Atlantic oceans in the same direction - east to west or v.v. - and end up back in the same country where you started.  

 

The tickets are sold by member airlines of the two biggest alliances, Star Alliance and Oneworld.  (The third alliance, Skyteam, dropped their RTW program during Covid and haven't resumed it.)  You have to fly on member airlines of those alliances and on routes they fly, but each alliance has a lot of members, so it's not difficult to get pretty much anywhere.  

 

The main Oneworld ticket, called the Oneworld Explorer, is priced based on (a) the number of continents touched in the course of the ticket, from 3 to 6, and -very importantly - (b) the country where travel begins and ends.  The Star Alliance RTW tickets are priced on (a) how many miles are flown, with tiers ranging from 26,000 to 39,000 miles, and also (b) where travel begins and ends.

 

It's this second feature (where to start/end) that really holds potential for travelers who can plan a year or two ahead, and who want to save a bunch of money, because the tickets are priced VERY differently depending on where that is.  Mind, it's not where you LIVE, it's where you START the trip.

 

For example, a four-continent Oneworld Explorer business class ticket (say, Europe, North America, Australia/NZ and Asia) has a base price of US$11,071 if travel starts in the USA.  If travel starts in Canada, it's US$7,928.  But if you start in Norway, it's US$5,489.  Or if you start in Japan, it's US$4,839.  

 

Star Alliance RTW pricing tends to be higher than Oneworld's, but for example a 29,000-mile Star RTW starting and ending in Japan has a base price of US$4,375 vs. US$10,426 if starting in the USA.  

 

So here's where some additional value comes into play.  Let's imagine that you have an Australian cruise planned for this coming February, but you're also thinking about an Alaska cruise next summer, or maybe a Mediterranean cruise next autumn.  Maybe all three.  

 

The tickets are good for 12 months from the first flight, so let's say you buy a 4-continent RTW with a start in Norway a couple of weeks before the Australia cruise.  (You can purchase the ticket as soon as flights are made available, but you can change dates for free after purchase.)  

 

Sometime in, say, late January, you fly one way to Oslo.  It's winter, so affordable one-way fares can be had, or use some purchased frequent flyer miles.  Collect the ticket, and head east. Maybe you stop over in, say, Singapore or Kuala Lumpur for some of the world's best food, but then it's off to Sydney and the cruise.  

 

Cruise over, maybe it's up to Hong Kong or Tokyo (or Bali) then it's over the Pacific back to the USA and home.  Back to work, poor devil.

 

But wait.  The ticket allows up to six flights within North America, which includes Alaska, Central America, Mexico and the Caribbean.  Use it to get to Vancouver or Anchorage for an Alaska cruise, or to someplace in the Caribbean or maybe San Diego for a Panama Canal cruise, whatever.  Or maybe not a cruise - Montreal or Quebec City, or Monterey for the jazz... what's on your list?  It's all possible, and all in the front of the plane.  

 

Late summer or autumn, you cross the pond and go on that Mediterranean or Baltic Sea or Norwegian fjords cruise.  Or maybe hit the Edinburgh festivals or Oktoberfest or... You end up back in Norway before the ticket turns back into a pumpkin 12 months after the first flight.  You'll have earned enough frequent flyer miles to fly home in business class, or maybe you pop for a new RTW, this time one that includes Africa or South America.  

 

The key to this is to have a plan of where you want to go, what time of year, and which year.  An RTW trip doesn't have to be one long continuous schlep, it can be a series of trips with work or "normal" life in between, if you have a plan.  Cruisers are notorious for thinking long-term compared to other travelers, so the idea is not a stretch, it seems to me.

 

Maybe worth some thought experimenting, no?

[FlyerTalker]

5 hours ago, Hlitner said:

Fly Air China (not to be confused with China Air) and sip JW Blue, and you will quickly understand the difference from Delta One or Untied Polaris

 

I think you have it backwards.  China Airlines (Taipei based) is heads and shoulders above Air China (Beijing based).  And there is no such thing as "China Air".

 

 

[FlyerTalker]

5 hours ago, Hlitner said:

 We have an upcoming flight on United Polaris Class (to Europe) and perhaps this will be a game changer..

 

Polaris is just the overall name for United's business class.  It may or may not have the newest interiors, and just the name.  Same with "Delta One", which covers a variety of cabin interiors and services.

 

Caveat Emptor

 

 

[Astro Flyer]

On 7/7/2024 at 6:23 AM, Hlitner said:

As to Sydney, if flying Premium Economy we would try to do it on Air New Zealand.

After watching PE video reviews, we decided that ANZ is our best option from LAX to Brisbane…seats, service, food & Aussie wine appear to be best for us. We’re only flying one-way and cruising back to LA for an even more comfortable journey than on any flight.

 

[Hlitner]

28 minutes ago, Astro Flyer said:

After watching PE video reviews, we decided that ANZ is our best option from LAX to Brisbane…seats, service, food & Aussie wine appear to be best for us. We’re only flying one-way and cruising back to LA for an even more comfortable journey than on any flight.

 

A bit off topic, but when DW and I retired, #1 on our bucket list was to go to Australia.  We also decided to toss in a cruise (from Sydney to Auckland) and turn it into a month-long trip.  We liked Australia, but fell in love with NZ.  We have since been back, and driven for weeks over both North and South Island.  If we ever had to leave the USA and live anywhere in the world, it would be Queenstown, NZ.  

 

We also enjoy trans pacific cruises and you will have a great time.  

 

Hank