JH hints again that changes to loyalty program changes are coming

[mz-s]

11 minutes ago, Elaine5715 said:

On this, I agree

Pretty sure according to the faceberg posts, everyone wins $$$$ on their $20 and gets a free suite

 

Because they all pulled the slot lever one more time.

[BlerkOne]

23 minutes ago, aborgman said:

 

 

...but Carnival isn't looking at individuals when designing marketing programs and setting rates, they are looking at the average - because that is all that matters in the aggregate.

I was not aware you were the fly on the wall when Carnival made decisions.

 

23 minutes ago, aborgman said:

Just like Casinos aren't basing their business model on no one ever winning - they're basing it on the average, aggregated across large numbers of people.

 

long term

[BlerkOne]

15 minutes ago, jimbo5544 said:

bingo....

To bring it back into focus, in the updated loyalty program, anyone cruising on rates not available to everyone, should not accumulate points.

[aborgman]

9 minutes ago, BlerkOne said:

I was not aware you were the fly on the wall when Carnival made decisions.

 

I'm pretty sure Carnival isn't intentionally violating their fiduciary duty to shareholders and intentionally foregoing profit.

 

One doesn't need to have any sort of secret insight to figure out that companies worry about their aggregate profit and don't fixate on individual transactions.

[aborgman]

14 minutes ago, BlerkOne said:

To bring it back into focus, in the updated loyalty program, anyone cruising on rates not available to everyone, should not accumulate points.

 

 

That is the thing... the only "should" is that they should do whatever maximizes return over the long term for their shareholders.

 

If people cruising on rates not available to everyone and accumulating points increases profit, Carnival should do it. If it doesn't, they shouldn't.

 

...but there is no moral imperative here - this isn't a moral/ethical question, there is no "right" or "wrong"... merely "more profit" or "less profit".

 

Edited July 19 by aborgman

[BlerkOne]

5 minutes ago, aborgman said:

 

I'm pretty sure Carnival isn't intentionally violating their fiduciary duty to shareholders and intentionally foregoing profit.

 

One doesn't need to have any sort of secret insight to figure out that companies worry about their aggregate profit and don't fixate on individual transactions.

A gross oversimplification

[BlerkOne]

1 minute ago, aborgman said:

 

 

That is the thing... the only "should" is that they should do whatever maximizes return over the long term for their shareholders.

 

If people cruising on rates not available to everyone and accumulating points increases profit, Carnival should do it. If it doesn't, they shouldn't.

 

...but there is no moral imperative here - this isn't a moral/ethical question, there is no "right" or "wrong"... merely "more profit" or "less profit".

 

There are no guarantees.

[jimbo5544]

46 minutes ago, BlerkOne said:

To bring it back into focus, in the updated loyalty program, anyone cruising on rates not available to everyone, should not accumulate points.

I agree with the idea, it makes sense to me.   They (and we also) need to realize that there is a def distinction between fares, profitability and loyalty. 

[jimbo5544]

Profitability is way easier on the macro side, as opposed to micro.  We neither have the variables they determine to be important (or the order of their importance) and in the end we get what we get.  Way too many unknowns.  Loyalty program, its costs, what they want it to be, and the factors they determine to be crucial are mostly unknowns as well. We have discussed the many options (and there are a bunch) here a LOT.  The simple truth is there may be reasons foe the change JH alludes to beyond things we think are important.  
 

John has dropped WAY many hints lately for it not to be coming and coming relatively soon.  When and what it will be and how it impacts all of us are things we will just have to wait and see.  

[jimbo5544]

48 minutes ago, BlerkOne said:

There are no guarantees.

Death and taxes.  Only ones I know of.  

[BlerkOne]

16 minutes ago, jimbo5544 said:

Profitability is way easier on the macro side, as opposed to micro.  We neither have the variables they determine to be important (or the order of their importance) and in the end we get what we get.  Way too many unknowns.  Loyalty program, its costs, what they want it to be, and the factors they determine to be crucial are mostly unknowns as well. We have discussed the many options (and there are a bunch) here a LOT.  The simple truth is there may be reasons foe the change JH alludes to beyond things we think are important.  
 

John has dropped WAY many hints lately for it not to be coming and coming relatively soon.  When and what it will be and how it impacts all of us are things we will just have to wait and see.  

Loyalty programs are marketing programs, period. So are casino rates. Nothing is earned or owed. I don't recall ever hearing a gambler claiming they cruise on Carnival because of the loyalty program. There is no benefit to the company to include casino rate cruises in the loyalty program - the casino can start their own program if they wish and could even cross brands.

 

Carnival has stated in the past that they aren't looking for cruisers who cruise for perks, but cruisers who like the brand. Translation - they don't want to get in a bidding war for fickle customers.

 

Since Carnival has already ruined their loyalty program by including essentially free cruises, and based on Carnival's target market has always been novice cruisers, it makes sense for Carnival to beef up the lower loyalty levels and let the higher levels saturate (leave them alone). They will attract and retain more of the target market. It makes no sense to do anything to the upper levels, including adding more, because Carnival's target market will never be able to reach those.

 

 

[StephPS79]

1 hour ago, BlerkOne said:

To bring it back into focus, in the updated loyalty program, anyone cruising on rates not available to everyone, should not accumulate points.

 

Almost everyone books with some type of offer code.  It would be tough to define “rates not available to everyone.”  Should only people paying full base undiscounted fare get points?  (TBH, if you’re not booking a discounted rate, you’re not booking right.)

 

Edited July 19 by StephPS79

[BlerkOne]

15 minutes ago, StephPS79 said:

 

Almost everyone books with some type of offer code.  It would be tough to define “rates not available to everyone.”  Should only people paying full base undiscounted fare get points?  (TBH, if you’re not booking a discounted rate, you’re not booking right.)

 

If it qualifies for price matching.

Edited July 19 by BlerkOne

[jimbo5544]

4 hours ago, BlerkOne said:

If it qualifies for price matching.

I will be with some mgt types in a couple weeks.  I will see if I can gather some info they can share on the scope, at least offer some non solicited ideas.

[vwrestler171]

On 7/18/2024 at 4:33 PM, stobe1 said:

Why does EVERY THREAD get turned into gamblers vs non gamblers? You guys just regurgitate the same verbal diarrhea every time. It always goes no where because its the same usual suspects making the same comments back and forth. I generally stop reading threads as of late when it devolves into that useless back and forth.

 

Shaka when the walls fell.

 

 

Sokath, his eyes uncovered.

 

Seriously though, I see both sides of this argument.  One could argue that people are paying for their cruises in the casino.  I know people will CLAIM that they only spent $100 and are getting free cabins, but if that is true, it is the extreme minority.  Most gamblers spend thousands and could get 2-3 cruises for what they pay.  Casinos are not built on winners and eventually every winner will lose and the casino counts on that to make the revenue, which keeps prices lower for everyone else.  I will say that I do agree with people complaining that if you are getting a free or even "extremely discounted" cabin, that it should not go towards your loyalty benefits, those should be earned by paying a good chunk of the cruise fare, maybe 50%? 75%?

[stobe1]

18 minutes ago, vwrestler171 said:

Sokath, his eyes uncovered.

 

Seriously though, I see both sides of this argument.  One could argue that people are paying for their cruises in the casino.  I know people will CLAIM that they only spent $100 and are getting free cabins, but if that is true, it is the extreme minority.  Most gamblers spend thousands and could get 2-3 cruises for what they pay.  Casinos are not built on winners and eventually every winner will lose and the casino counts on that to make the revenue, which keeps prices lower for everyone else.  I will say that I do agree with people complaining that if you are getting a free or even "extremely discounted" cabin, that it should not go towards your loyalty benefits, those should be earned by paying a good chunk of the cruise fare, maybe 50%? 75%?

I get it. I really do. Its just a continual useless back and forth. As I have said before, if Carnival went to VIFP status based on the on-board spend, I would be super calafragalisticexpialdociuous tin foil aluminum hat titanium kryptonite steel status. 

 

Temba--his arms wide. 

Darmok and Jalad, at Tenagra is my hope for all.

Edited July 20 by stobe1

[stobe1]

9 hours ago, BlerkOne said:

To bring it back into focus, in the updated loyalty program, anyone cruising on rates not available to everyone, should not accumulate points.

Talk about certain people living rent free in other's heads. Clearly it bothers you. And I am glad to continue to accrue VIFP points. Only a few more to go til Diamond!!! Hey...look at that awesome cheap 14 day Europe cruise I can go book for next year....

[Old Fart Cruisers]

3 minutes ago, stobe1 said:

Talk about certain people living rent free in other's heads. Clearly it bothers you. And I am glad to continue to accrue VIFP points. Only a few more to go til Diamond!!! Hey...look at that awesome cheap 14 day Europe cruise I can go book for next year....

Only 9 more days until my FREE 21-day European Cruise😁. 

[BlerkOne]

16 minutes ago, Old Fart Cruisers said:

Only 9 more days until my FREE 21-day European Cruise😁. 

Maybe planes will be flying again by then. 🙂

 

[BlerkOne]

24 minutes ago, stobe1 said:

Talk about certain people living rent free in other's heads. Clearly it bothers you. And I am glad to continue to accrue VIFP points. Only a few more to go til Diamond!!! Hey...look at that awesome cheap 14 day Europe cruise I can go book for next year....

Enjoy. While it lasts...

[BlerkOne]

55 minutes ago, stobe1 said:

I get it. I really do. Its just a continual useless back and forth. As I have said before, if Carnival went to VIFP status based on the on-board spend, I would be super calafragalisticexpialdociuous tin foil aluminum hat titanium kryptonite steel status. 

 

Temba--his arms wide. 

Darmok and Jalad, at Tenagra is my hope for all.

Of course they would also include the price we pay for cabins. And drinks and specialty dining and ...

 

It is trivial to rack up spend in the casino. Harder to fake paying for a cabin.

[firefly333]

8 hours ago, stobe1 said:

Talk about certain people living rent free in other's heads. Clearly it bothers you. And I am glad to continue to accrue VIFP points. Only a few more to go til Diamond!!! Hey...look at that awesome cheap 14 day Europe cruise I can go book for next year....

Not giving loyalty points to certain fares would certainly make a lot not cruise carnival. I'd want loyalty pts.  I cant see them taking that away. Not getting shareholder credit is one thing but not allowing loyalty pts. I'd bet that isnt even on the table. 

 

Everyone cant help but smart a little when sometimes it feels like half your roll call is saying they got the cruise for free and you paid a lot, especially say my journey cruise, but its how it is. I've said over and over it's the distribution of who pays how much, and those who pay dont really get any discounts for paying full price. .. keeps me away from carnival. I know I'll be back when fhe pendulum swings back and carnival is once again a good value for me.

 

I pushed to diamond on carnival and now I'll push to pinnacle on royal so lock in whatever perks they now offer. Having free wifi the whole cruise is worth it for me on royal. Though free drinks are nice. I've seen a few who tried mardi gras or whatever and like me missed the perks and freebies I get with royal. Imo carnival doesnt reward loyalty hardly. There arent any perks I care about. I still havent used my free steak dinner coupon. I was not in a good place last cruise. Exhausted and a pinched nerve etc. I actually totally missed a 2nd cruise on royal in may. So my last cruise was carnival.

 

I check rates but I'm still of the opinion carnival should reward loyalty more with long term perks, not a one time dinner. I realize blerk thinks loyalty perks like discounts and nicer freebies, carnival doesnt have to reward to get people back. I disagree. I've seen too many posts who try carnival and once and done. They miss what they get free elsewhere. Building loyalty to a brand imo is smart. 

[redsox1584]

JH just posted that the first drink will automatically be the free one - 

 

GOLD, PLATINUM AND DIAMOND 
COMPLIMENTARY DRINK UPDATE

So as you are aware today marks the start of cruises where guests no longer have to wait until the last day of the cruise and the previous restrictions on being served their complimentary drink and it was brilliant to see how most were very, very pleased.

Having read all the comments the beards and I saw that some of you had some questions about how the bartenders and bar waiters will know etc and so we have made an operational decision which will make things easier. 

 I will therefore list below all the information for you.

The complimentary drink will now become the                      WELCOME ABOARD – WELCOME HOME beverage. 

So if you are Gold, Platinum or Diamond the bartenders and bar waiters will see from your Sail and Sign card ( or boarding pass if you haven’t collected it yet from outside your cabin)  that you are entitled to your complimentary beverage and so will not charge you anything at all. 
So please, make that first drink something special and raise a glass to the start of the Fun you deserve so much.

The complimentary drink can be used at the Java Blue so if your first drink is a specialty coffee or milk shake then that’s all covered for you.

For people sailing from Galveston and New York where there is a restriction on Cheers etc not starting until day two, please know that this does NOT apply to your complimentary                     WELCOME ABOARD – WELCOME HOME drink.

So there you go – make that first drink something you really have been looking forward to and whether it is a , a pint of cold beer, a virgin Pina Daiquiri, a Mo Heat O ,  a Martini with olives and grits or 
 a Kiss on the Cucumber Sunset it will I am sure mark the start of another massive dollop of FUN

cheers

PLEASE SHARE  - PLEASE SHARE

Edited July 20 by redsox1584
Added JH post

[Jamman54]

22 minutes ago, redsox1584 said:

JH just posted that the first drink will automatically be the free one - 

 

GOLD, PLATINUM AND DIAMOND 
COMPLIMENTARY DRINK UPDATE

So as you are aware today marks the start of cruises where guests no longer have to wait until the last day of the cruise and the previous restrictions on being served their complimentary drink and it was brilliant to see how most were very, very pleased.

Having read all the comments the beards and I saw that some of you had some questions about how the bartenders and bar waiters will know etc and so we have made an operational decision which will make things easier. 

 I will therefore list below all the information for you.

The complimentary drink will now become the                      WELCOME ABOARD – WELCOME HOME beverage. 

So if you are Gold, Platinum or Diamond the bartenders and bar waiters will see from your Sail and Sign card ( or boarding pass if you haven’t collected it yet from outside your cabin)  that you are entitled to your complimentary beverage and so will not charge you anything at all. 
So please, make that first drink something special and raise a glass to the start of the Fun you deserve so much.

The complimentary drink can be used at the Java Blue so if your first drink is a specialty coffee or milk shake then that’s all covered for you.

For people sailing from Galveston and New York where there is a restriction on Cheers etc not starting until day two, please know that this does NOT apply to your complimentary                     WELCOME ABOARD – WELCOME HOME drink.

So there you go – make that first drink something you really have been looking forward to and whether it is a , a pint of cold beer, a virgin Pina Daiquiri, a Mo Heat O ,  a Martini with olives and grits or 
 a Kiss on the Cucumber Sunset it will I am sure mark the start of another massive dollop of FUN

cheers

PLEASE SHARE  - PLEASE SHARE

We're good with that! 😎

[staceyglow]

1 hour ago, redsox1584 said:

JH just posted that the first drink will automatically be the free one - 

 

GOLD, PLATINUM AND DIAMOND 
COMPLIMENTARY DRINK UPDATE

So as you are aware today marks the start of cruises where guests no longer have to wait until the last day of the cruise and the previous restrictions on being served their complimentary drink and it was brilliant to see how most were very, very pleased.

Having read all the comments the beards and I saw that some of you had some questions about how the bartenders and bar waiters will know etc and so we have made an operational decision which will make things easier. 

 I will therefore list below all the information for you.

The complimentary drink will now become the                      WELCOME ABOARD – WELCOME HOME beverage. 

So if you are Gold, Platinum or Diamond the bartenders and bar waiters will see from your Sail and Sign card ( or boarding pass if you haven’t collected it yet from outside your cabin)  that you are entitled to your complimentary beverage and so will not charge you anything at all. 
So please, make that first drink something special and raise a glass to the start of the Fun you deserve so much.

The complimentary drink can be used at the Java Blue so if your first drink is a specialty coffee or milk shake then that’s all covered for you.

For people sailing from Galveston and New York where there is a restriction on Cheers etc not starting until day two, please know that this does NOT apply to your complimentary                     WELCOME ABOARD – WELCOME HOME drink.

So there you go – make that first drink something you really have been looking forward to and whether it is a , a pint of cold beer, a virgin Pina Daiquiri, a Mo Heat O ,  a Martini with olives and grits or 
 a Kiss on the Cucumber Sunset it will I am sure mark the start of another massive dollop of FUN

cheers

PLEASE SHARE  - PLEASE SHARE

If you thought bars were crowded on embarkation day before, imagine when all the diamonds and plats are all trying to get the fancy frozen drinks as their first beverage... 😁