No more MTG luncheon, only cocktail party

[TRLD]

We just look at the elite benefits in the same way that we do shareholder and veteran OBC. The actual dollar value. On a normal 14 day cruise the elite benefits (minibar, laundry, 10% excursion credit, 50% internet discount) is worth about $400 to $450. 

 

We do take that into account when pickimg our cruises/cruiselines.

Edited September 8 by TRLD

[VibeGuy]

The ultimate screw to longtime passengers isn’t the disappearance of the luncheon or the devaluation of the Internet benefit in light of the inclusive packages.   Even getting rid of milestone cruise recognition, though petty, wasn’t real money at the end of the day. 
 

It was the very quiet demise of Loyalty Commend OBC.  That felt like a slap in the face.  

[srpilo]

On 9/6/2024 at 1:30 PM, Cruise Raider said:

Theses bowed up in reverse order but wow .. the dishes at the luncheon were phenomenal!  we didn’t even eat anything at dinner as this was so satisfying.  I didn’t try the dessert but didn’t even see one bite left from anyone’s plate.  
 

In reverse order, dessert, Chilean sea bass with scallops (oooo yummmm!), filet mignon with pork tenderloin, appetizer was fresh crab with a lobster salad and rolled zucchini and summer squash.  

 

 

This from our most recent MTG luncheon this year, definitely not MDR stuff, like all the our previous MTG meals this entree was a show stopper in comparison to any MDR meal we ever had.. If rumors are true these luncheons will be sorely missed and IMO another Princess slap in our face for our YEARS of patronage

Edited September 8 by srpilo

[SCX22]

So many complaints about the deteriorating loyalty benefits.  Switch cruise lines if you don't feel valued by Princess anymore.  Very few have the guts to put their money where their mouth is.  Many still want the chip of the MTG on their shoulders so they won't.

[555]

10 hours ago, SCX22 said:

So many complaints about the deteriorating loyalty benefits.  Switch cruise lines if you don't feel valued by Princess anymore.  Very few have the guts to put their money where their mouth is.  Many still want the chip of the MTG on their shoulders so they won't.

Oh, believe me, we have cut back on what profits Princess receives from us. Missing out on the free internet minutes, coffee cards, DR cutbacks, loyalty dollars and now possibly a luncheon all add up on what value Princess used to be in the past.

[Coral]

12 hours ago, SCX22 said:

So many complaints about the deteriorating loyalty benefits.  Switch cruise lines if you don't feel valued by Princess anymore.  Very few have the guts to put their money where their mouth is.  Many still want the chip of the MTG on their shoulders so they won't.

I actually have reduced my cruising quite a bit and am doing more land vacations. I only recently added a coastal cruise after I am doing a land trip to British Columbia because I need a trip of longer than 6 days to relax plus to justify the cost of air. Otherwise, I would not be cruising this fall.

[insidecabin]

20 hours ago, Cruisemeister2002 said:

You are obviously speaking from an American perspective of cruising. To be quite honest I don't know personally of many of the younger generation that travel on the UK CCL ships except for holiday (vacation) times. I think we have around two maybe Princess ships out of Southampton. Then there's P&O who have seven ships, Cunard who have two with Queen Anne launched next year. Most of these ships will have older cruisers aboard. A few years ago I went on one of P&O's ships. I think it was 24 nights Canada and New England and about 97% onboard were top tier passengers. From a personal point of view and I see your point also, whilst wherever the money comes from for luncheons etc to me at least it showed that as a customer you were appreciated. Whether you really were is open to debate. But it made you feel good. Such as chocolates on your pillow at night. The ladies toiletries being in a bag with the cruise lines logo on it. The chocoholics tea in the MDR (P&O) where the chefs made delicious cakes, desserts and there were ice carvings. Galley and Bridge tours were free. Don't get me wrong I don't expect things to be free. It's just that they used to be and now are either not available or a payment is required.

UK family market was dominated by P&O and Marella.(last of the budget package holiday lines)

 

Since covid MSC have a ship homeport Southampton firmly aimed at UK families with very competitive pricing(cheap/free kids).

 

They also targeted the younger adults with aggressive solo rates and cheap drinks package.

 

MSC also over winter a northern route including Southampton that attracts families and young solos.

 

Princess have had 3 ships in Southampton, dropping to 2 in 2026, one moving to Copenhagen

 

Queen Anne has been sailing a few months now.

[billco]

22 hours ago, LACruiser88 said:

So, it would be nice for Princess to show a little appreciation for our continued loyalty to their brand.  🙂

Seems like inviting you to a MTG cocktail party is showing you a little appreciation.

Edited September 9 by billco

[555]

4 minutes ago, billco said:

Seems like inviting you to a MTG cocktail party is showing you a little appreciation.

It is, but only for the top 20 couples.

On a ship with possibly 2 or 3 hundred elites, the chances are quite limited. You could be elite for many years and never have the opportunity to be invited. 

[TRLD]

2 hours ago, insidecabin said:

UK family market was dominated by P&O and Marella.(last of the budget package holiday lines)

 

Since covid MSC have a ship homeport Southampton firmly aimed at UK families with very competitive pricing(cheap/free kids).

 

They also targeted the younger adults with aggressive solo rates and cheap drinks package.

 

MSC also over winter a northern route including Southampton that attracts families and young solos.

 

Princess have had 3 ships in Southampton, dropping to 2 in 2026, one moving to Copenhagen

 

Queen Anne has been sailing a few months now.

The average age on P&O Iona on the cruise we took last year was more like what one sees on Royal Caribbean, than Princess. Lots of younger passengers. Will see how it is in two weeks when we are on her again.

[insidecabin]

3 minutes ago, TRLD said:

The average age on P&O Iona on the cruise we took last year was more like what one sees on Royal Caribbean, than Princess. Lots of younger passengers. Will see how it is in two weeks when we are on her again.

 

P&O and Marella are still dominant for UK family cruise holidays.

 

MSC went from nothing to full ship(6000) in a couple of years been on a 1/2 term with 1500kids report are summer it goes over 2k.

 

With Princess the Sky does the med Canaries runs which attract more families.

 

The other ships are more focused on round Britain, Fjords Baltic, Iceland fewer Brits and families on those more destination focus

[ldubs]

5 hours ago, 555 said:

Oh, believe me, we have cut back on what profits Princess receives from us. Missing out on the free internet minutes, coffee cards, DR cutbacks, loyalty dollars and now possibly a luncheon all add up on what value Princess used to be in the past.

 

Not following.  What have you cut back?   Do you no longer use Princess?

 

  

2 hours ago, 555 said:

It is, but only for the top 20 couples.

On a ship with possibly 2 or 3 hundred elites, the chances are quite limited. You could be elite for many years and never have the opportunity to be invited. 

 

It is for the most traveled, not everyone.  If not in the top 20, or whatever the cut-off, then you are not among the most traveled group.  

[memoak]

3 hours ago, 555 said:

It is, but only for the top 20 couples.

On a ship with possibly 2 or 3 hundred elites, the chances are quite limited. You could be elite for many years and never have the opportunity to be invited. 

The itinerary makes a big difference. On our  b2b Alaska cruises last month there were people with under 200 days who were invited. On those cruises there were over 2,100 blue cards on each week and this was in the Grand

[JimmyVWine]

On 9/8/2024 at 9:34 AM, cruising.mark.uk said:

From a commercial perspective why does Princess need to show appreciation to most travelled guests?  

 

Commercial logic suggests that the cruise line should focus on the newbies, who are far more likely to spend more in terms of extras and on board spend over and above the base cabin fare and are also likely to be of a younger demographic....The cruise line needs to focus on those who have most of their cruising ahead of them - that's where the future revenue lies. 

 

 

One of the ways that a business convinces the newbies with most of their purchasing on the horizon instead of the rearview mirror to become and remain brand-loyal is to show them a carrot that they can one day hope to obtain.  Elite benefits and things like MTG Luncheons are very much a "One day I hope to be able to experience that" type of thing.  So while the benefit may be physically conferred on people whose spending is mostly behind them (and prior posts cast doubt on the validity of that idea), the benefit is being emotionally conferred on the people who aren't actually the recipients.    

[voljeep]

27 minutes ago, JimmyVWine said:

 

One of the ways that a business convinces the newbies with most of their purchasing on the horizon instead of the rearview mirror to become and remain brand-loyal is to show them a carrot that they can one day hope to obtain.  Elite benefits and things like MTG Luncheons are very much a "One day I hope to be able to experience that" type of thing.  So while the benefit may be physically conferred on people whose spending is mostly behind them (and prior posts cast doubt on the validity of that idea), the benefit is being emotionally conferred on the people who aren't actually the recipients.    

Princess, and other cruise lines maybe, have a really easy and virtually no cost way to set the hook on new cruisers ... complimentary upgrade the cabin (imagine an upgrade on your first cruise to a balcony, talking about it on a beach break excursion loudly,  and sitting next to 20+ time elite cruisers who have never got an upgraded cabin ... it was hilarious).

 

Elite for the remainder of the cruise ... hey, we got a wine tasting!!

[cruising.mark.uk]

1 hour ago, JimmyVWine said:

 

One of the ways that a business convinces the newbies with most of their purchasing on the horizon instead of the rearview mirror to become and remain brand-loyal is to show them a carrot that they can one day hope to obtain.  Elite benefits and things like MTG Luncheons are very much a "One day I hope to be able to experience that" type of thing.  So while the benefit may be physically conferred on people whose spending is mostly behind them (and prior posts cast doubt on the validity of that idea), the benefit is being emotionally conferred on the people who aren't actually the recipients.    

Really?  I seriously doubt that many newbies start cruising with a line with the aspiration that after perhaps 10 years and $100000 spent they may become eligible to be invited to a lunch worth about $10.

They'll stay loyal if they are getting good value for their money today.  If they don't feel they are, the prospect of free laundry and a couple of canapes is not going to keep any rational person loyal.

[JimmyVWine]

43 minutes ago, cruising.mark.uk said:

the prospect of free laundry and a couple of canapes is not going to keep any rational person loyal.

Loyalty plays off of emotion, not rational thought. What airline, hotel or rental car loyalty program offers anything of real value to the new or mid-tier customer? Yet new customers begin to build brand loyalty right out of the gate and mid-tier customers stick with it for years/decades.  Other than "someday I will achieve "X"" is the basis for that loyalty? And if you take "X" away, what is left of the loyalty program? Seriously?  Nothing.  A loyalty program with no carrot is absolutely pointless.   

Edited September 9 by JimmyVWine

[TRLD]

1 hour ago, JimmyVWine said:

Loyalty plays off of emotion, not rational thought. What airline, hotel or rental car loyalty program offers anything of real value to the new or mid-tier customer? Yet new customers begin to build brand loyalty right out of the gate and mid-tier customers stick with it for years/decades.  Other than "someday I will achieve "X"" is the basis for that loyalty? And if you take "X" away, what is left of the loyalty program? Seriously?  Nothing.  A loyalty program with no carrot is absolutely pointless.   

Loyalty status on airlines not much, points on the other hand have given me some very nice free flights.

 

Their status is also based pretty much on current use not historic, though i do have million miler status on 3 US airlines and lifetime status at Marriott. None of which give a whole lot. Get more from carrying the right credit card.

 

Cruise lines could go the point route based upon current use with some lifetime status benefits and let people spend the points however they want, but most would not like that either.

 

First and foremost loyalty programs are marketing programs. They only exist as long as value is multiples of cost.

 

Based upon what i see here i cannot help but think that if CC participants were in charge the ships would be wooden clipper ships and we would arrive at the pier by horse and buggy.

Edited September 9 by TRLD

[VibeGuy]

what’s interesting about cruise line loyalty programs vs air and lodging is that they’re not carrying liabilities for future rewards on the books.  The loyalty program costs are accounted for as marketing expenses when they’re utilized.  So these double-your-cruise-credit promos ultimately mean nothing.   The lines have no contractual obligation to give loyal cruisers jack.  
 

With Loyalty Commend OBC, it was super easy to see the cash value of long-term customer loyalty - $100 OBC at the top tier worked out to $2 in rebate for each of the previous 50 cruises and went down from there.  
 

Compare this to hotel loyalty. Fifth-of-six published tiers at Marriott (with virtually nobody who pays for their own travel as the mythical seventh tier) has an additional expected bonus redeemable value of 4.5% of spend relative to the 6% of bottom tier, plus the off chance of a decent upgrade maybe 20% of the time at full-service properties.   Granted, a few of those have been absolutely spectacular but 20% is not something you can count on and how much value to you really get from a suite at the Des Moines Marriott for one night?

 

We value the laundry very, very highly.  Certainly higher than HAL’s $9/day to buy unlimited laundry (not pressing and eco cleaning).   It’s literally the only loyalty perk we use aside from tendering priority (costs the line roughly three labor hours per tender port) and cocktail hour snacks (mostly shifts where I’m eating not what nor how much I’m eating in total, although I really do appreciate steak tartare night), and seeing HAL sell laundry for $9 *per cabin* certainly establishes what Carnivore thinks it’s worth.  

If I ran this zoo (and nobody has asked), I’d do a couple of things differently.  
 

I’d reset Elite status to Platinum if there were no sailings in each of three consecutive calendar years. You want Elite back, you’ll need to replace ten cruise credits.  
 

I’d restore milestone cruise recognition. 

 

I’d implement “surprise and delight” bonuses that were algorithmically determined based on revenue velocity.  At least one previous sailing in the last year?  A quarter of those Elite guests on the sailing get $10 free play in the casino.  At least two previous in three years?  10% of those get a small floral arrangement in the cabin upon boarding.  Were those sailings at full price?  More chances to win. Were they casino comps?  Don’t count them - let the casino reward them out of theo. Tweak the numbers so the more valuable you are to the line, the more opportunities you have to get randomly selected at least once in your sailing.  I know some gaming companies who do this *quite* well.  When it’s properly designed and implemented it genuinely feels spontaneous to the recipients. 
 

Again, nobody has asked me to switch gigs and the ships are sailing at record occupancy levels so there’s zero urgency.  But it would be a nice cheap way to genuinely appreciate truly frequent cruisers who are driving current revenue. 
 

(The cynic in me says reducing inactive elites to Platinums would free up laundry capacity to sell as part of Premier the next time they need to justify increasing the per diem)

Edited September 9 by VibeGuy

[TRLD]

1 hour ago, VibeGuy said:

what’s interesting about cruise line loyalty programs vs air and lodging is that they’re not carrying liabilities for future rewards on the books.  The loyalty program costs are accounted for as marketing expenses when they’re utilized.  So these double-your-cruise-credit promos ultimately mean nothing.   The lines have no contractual obligation to give loyal cruisers jack.  
 

With Loyalty Commend OBC, it was super easy to see the cash value of long-term customer loyalty - $100 OBC at the top tier worked out to $2 in rebate for each of the previous 50 cruises and went down from there.  
 

Compare this to hotel loyalty. Fifth-of-six published tiers at Marriott (with virtually nobody who pays for their own travel as the mythical seventh tier) has an additional expected bonus redeemable value of 4.5% of spend relative to the 6% of bottom tier, plus the off chance of a decent upgrade maybe 20% of the time at full-service properties.   Granted, a few of those have been absolutely spectacular but 20% is not something you can count on and how much value to you really get from a suite at the Des Moines Marriott for one night?

 

We value the laundry very, very highly.  Certainly higher than HAL’s $9/day to buy unlimited laundry (not pressing and eco cleaning).   It’s literally the only loyalty perk we use aside from tendering priority (costs the line roughly three labor hours per tender port) and cocktail hour snacks (mostly shifts where I’m eating not what nor how much I’m eating in total, although I really do appreciate steak tartare night), and seeing HAL sell laundry for $9 *per cabin* certainly establishes what Carnivore thinks it’s worth.  

If I ran this zoo (and nobody has asked), I’d do a couple of things differently.  
 

I’d reset Elite status to Platinum if there were no sailings in each of three consecutive calendar years. You want Elite back, you’ll need to replace ten cruise credits.  
 

I’d restore milestone cruise recognition. 

 

I’d implement “surprise and delight” bonuses that were algorithmically determined based on revenue velocity.  At least one previous sailing in the last year?  A quarter of those Elite guests on the sailing get $10 free play in the casino.  At least two previous in three years?  10% of those get a small floral arrangement in the cabin upon boarding.  Were those sailings at full price?  More chances to win. Were they casino comps?  Don’t count them - let the casino reward them out of theo. Tweak the numbers so the more valuable you are to the line, the more opportunities you have to get randomly selected at least once in your sailing.  I know some gaming companies who do this *quite* well.  When it’s properly designed and implemented it genuinely feels spontaneous to the recipients. 
 

Again, nobody has asked me to switch gigs and the ships are sailing at record occupancy levels so there’s zero urgency.  But it would be a nice cheap way to genuinely appreciate truly frequent cruisers who are driving current revenue. 
 

(The cynic in me says reducing inactive elites to Platinums would free up laundry capacity to sell as part of Premier the next time they need to justify increasing the per diem)

In most cases not even that. Since most of the benefits are decreased revenue, in the form of discounts,  i suspect they do not even make it to the expense side of the ledger. I would expect them to track the opportunity cost of the decreased revenue.

 

I suspect that having to track the liabilities for unused but issued coffee cards is one of the things that drove the change from the old paper cards to the useable only on current cruise change before the ekectrnic package system got totally eliminated.

 

Keep in mind that hotel companies, are rather bad at consistently following their loyalty rules.  Bonvoy seems to have the most issues these days.

[TRLD]

2 hours ago, VibeGuy said:

what’s interesting about cruise line loyalty programs vs air and lodging is that they’re not carrying liabilities for future rewards on the books.  The loyalty program costs are accounted for as marketing expenses when they’re utilized.  So these double-your-cruise-credit promos ultimately mean nothing.   The lines have no contractual obligation to give loyal cruisers jack.  
 

With Loyalty Commend OBC, it was super easy to see the cash value of long-term customer loyalty - $100 OBC at the top tier worked out to $2 in rebate for each of the previous 50 cruises and went down from there.  
 

Compare this to hotel loyalty. Fifth-of-six published tiers at Marriott (with virtually nobody who pays for their own travel as the mythical seventh tier) has an additional expected bonus redeemable value of 4.5% of spend relative to the 6% of bottom tier, plus the off chance of a decent upgrade maybe 20% of the time at full-service properties.   Granted, a few of those have been absolutely spectacular but 20% is not something you can count on and how much value to you really get from a suite at the Des Moines Marriott for one night?

 

We value the laundry very, very highly.  Certainly higher than HAL’s $9/day to buy unlimited laundry (not pressing and eco cleaning).   It’s literally the only loyalty perk we use aside from tendering priority (costs the line roughly three labor hours per tender port) and cocktail hour snacks (mostly shifts where I’m eating not what nor how much I’m eating in total, although I really do appreciate steak tartare night), and seeing HAL sell laundry for $9 *per cabin* certainly establishes what Carnivore thinks it’s worth.  

If I ran this zoo (and nobody has asked), I’d do a couple of things differently.  
 

I’d reset Elite status to Platinum if there were no sailings in each of three consecutive calendar years. You want Elite back, you’ll need to replace ten cruise credits.  
 

I’d restore milestone cruise recognition. 

 

I’d implement “surprise and delight” bonuses that were algorithmically determined based on revenue velocity.  At least one previous sailing in the last year?  A quarter of those Elite guests on the sailing get $10 free play in the casino.  At least two previous in three years?  10% of those get a small floral arrangement in the cabin upon boarding.  Were those sailings at full price?  More chances to win. Were they casino comps?  Don’t count them - let the casino reward them out of theo. Tweak the numbers so the more valuable you are to the line, the more opportunities you have to get randomly selected at least once in your sailing.  I know some gaming companies who do this *quite* well.  When it’s properly designed and implemented it genuinely feels spontaneous to the recipients. 
 

Again, nobody has asked me to switch gigs and the ships are sailing at record occupancy levels so there’s zero urgency.  But it would be a nice cheap way to genuinely appreciate truly frequent cruisers who are driving current revenue. 
 

(The cynic in me says reducing inactive elites to Platinums would free up laundry capacity to sell as part of Premier the next time they need to justify increasing the per diem)

If it was up to me i would go with an airline type system. Have a few benefits like priority tendering, maybe laundry. Then go mostly to a point system. The airline miles system in some cases is worth as much as the rest of the airline. A lot of money is made selling points to credit card companies and other businesses. One can get airline miles just about everywhere these days. Then let the customer use them however they choose. Yes they would be liability to track but the potential economic value to the cruise line holding companies would be huge.

Edited September 10 by TRLD

[Iamcruzin]

On 9/8/2024 at 7:03 PM, SCX22 said:

So many complaints about the deteriorating loyalty benefits.  Switch cruise lines if you don't feel valued by Princess anymore.  Very few have the guts to put their money where their mouth is.  Many still want the chip of the MTG on their shoulders so they won't.

 They put all of their eggs in one basket thinking that a corporation really cares about them and that the benefits would never change.  However they are worse on the Celebrity board. You have to hear them complain about how they have to share loyalty with the Riff Raff from Royal Caribbean now that they match loyalty from one cruise line to another. 

[PrincessLuver]

We find the airline (United), hotel (Hilton) and Rental Car (Hertz) to be invaluable in letting us travel in a style that could be cost prohibitive.  

 

We have been in Europe for a month and stayed in Hiltons in major capitols on HH points.  We flew Polaris Class on UA and have been flying inter-Europe in business class using Mileage Plus Points.  With Hertz, we pay for mid-size car and are allowed to pick out whatever car we want being Presidential Circle.  We use our Hertz points  for free rental cars in Hawaii for a month (which are expensive) at a time which are free.  Being Star Alliance Gold we are allowed in all the Star Alliance lounges or Senator Lounges for free in airports.  Being Hilton Diamond we have been nicely upgraded at every stay and also given use of the Executive lounges.  These perks saved us tens of thousands of dollars and the programs are easy to use.

 

These are just some of the benefits with these programs that keep us loyal and benefit us.

 

Being Elite on Princess gets us free laundry which usually damages our clothes and a mini bar.  It is not even close between most major travel loyalty programs and Princess'' farcical program.

Edited September 10 by PrincessLuver

[SCX22]

52 minutes ago, Iamcruzin said:

However they are worse on the Celebrity board. You have to hear them complain about how they have to share loyalty with the Riff Raff from Royal Caribbean now that they match loyalty from one cruise line to another. 

 

Heaven forbid Carnival Corporation or Holland America Group (real status matching, not the begin at 1-Star Mariner that HA does) followed suit among their brands.  That attitude would migrate over to thee boards.  Some already had their panties in a bunch over Princess' Loyalty Accelerator.

[TRLD]

2 hours ago, PrincessLuver said:

We find the airline (United), hotel (Hilton) and Rental Car (Hertz) to be invaluable in letting us travel in a style that could be cost prohibitive.  

 

We have been in Europe for a month and stayed in Hiltons in major capitols on HH points.  We flew Polaris Class on UA and have been flying inter-Europe in business class using Mileage Plus Points.  With Hertz, we pay for mid-size car and are allowed to pick out whatever car we want being Presidential Circle.  We use our Hertz points  for free rental cars in Hawaii for a month (which are expensive) at a time which are free.  Being Star Alliance Gold we are allowed in all the Star Alliance lounges or Senator Lounges for free in airports.  Being Hilton Diamond we have been nicely upgraded at every stay and also given use of the Executive lounges.  These perks saved us tens of thousands of dollars and the programs are easy to use.

 

These are just some of the benefits with these programs that keep us loyal and benefit us.

 

Being Elite on Princess gets us free laundry which usually damages our clothes and a mini bar.  It is not even close between most major travel loyalty programs and Princess'' farcical program.

We have liked the ability to buy coach on United then upgrade to Polaris using points and dollars. Makes for a pretty cheap.business class to Sydney or Singapore while stretching out the pounts as well.  We make very good use of both Hilton and IHG points. Find both of them better than Bonvoy. Hilton Diamond does come in handy.

Edited September 10 by TRLD