Suggestion to End Formal Night Bickering

[mii]

... going to the casino is not allowed unless you are formally dressed. The well dressed don't want to see you in the casino not properly attired.

 

Ann, I did state maybe I would go to the casino, although I have had once in awhile but mostly we eat at the buffet, and usually go back to our stateroom. The reason that we do that is we still respect the formal evening for the people who wish to dress up on formal nite. Period. it really is not a big deal for us to go back to our room and we certainly do not feel like we are banished to the dungeons. Ann I know you did not say that but I am just explaining my situation of the thing. Sometimes, well in fact, all of the time these formal wear threads absolutely get out of control.

 

marilyn

[sjbdtz]

You know, people who wear fur coats think they look formal & dressy too.

 

Maybe i should bring a can of red spray paint for those who object to the way I might dress. :rolleyes:

[sjbdtz]

I think the Captain and his crew also do as you would do. They do not ask anyone to leave who is not dressed appropriately. That is because they are also excellent hosts. However, that doesn't negate the fact that the party goer in blue jeans and tennis shoes is being rude to his/her host. It is a certain form of snobbery to believe you don't have to play by the rules like everyone else.

 

 

If this was a HOST / GUEST situation, I might agree with you. It isn't. Each of these "guests" paid to be there, and are not there at the pleasure of the captain.

 

AS for dressing LIKE the captain, remember that the captain & officers are dressed formally all day, every day.

[sjbdtz]

... going to the casino is not allowed unless you are formally dressed. The well dressed don't want to see you in the casino not properly attired.

 

 

The "well-dressed" can go stick their heads in the sand.....oh wait...they're already doing that! :eek:

 

 

This attitude is so rude, and condescending.

[1cats1]

Oh no, don't stop formal nights. I already bought mine for next cruise! Hey, I enjoy doing that. It's half the reason I like cruises. Personally, I obviously like formal nights. I like fancy because it feels special to me. And I don't want to have to pay extra and go to specialty dining rooms---Don't even go there, don't give any ideas on how to raise additional revenue. Not everybody complies with the dress codes, but who cares? What I really don't like to see is shorts and tee shirts in the main dining room for dinner. I do think that damages the integrity but I saw a lot of it and couldn't do a thing about it other than look the other way, and I did. Just deal with it. The dress code is not enforced nor will any cruise line be able to fully enforce any dress code. Conquering the problems of the cruising world, huh? Do you really think you can change the world of cruising? Let each do their own. Everybody has a right to do as they wish, they paid to be there. It's called freedom. Enjoy yourself and quit worrying about the other person. Do they really affect you? Anyone so sensitive needs to go sit in a bubble and hope the ship doesn't list. Dress how you want. It is your vacation. You paid for it. You are the one who needs to feel good about it. Okay? Concentrate on yourself. I would like to see dress codes enforced, at least no shorts and tees in the dining room, but you know, it isn't going to happen. I am willing to live with it. Can you? If not, stop cruising. Let everybody sing "I did it my way". Don't worry, be happy!

[judyjbest]

We partially agree, Princess Patches. The only difference is I'd invite them back if they were great guests other than their clothes, because some very interesting people simply don't have great clotes, but they have great personalities. I'd rather have interesting personilaties than just the people who can afford the best clothes. But, Princess Patches, I'd love to share a table with you ... I'm sure we'd have great fun!

 

snob:One who tends to patronize, rebuff, or ignore people regarded as social inferiors and imitate, admire, or seek association with people regarded as social superiors.

One who affects an offensive air of self-satisfied superiority in matters of taste or intellect.

 

hos·pi·tal·i·ty: ordial and generous reception of or disposition toward guests.

An instance of cordial and generous treatment of guests.

 

I think this describes the cruise lines. They are simply being hospitable!

[LARGIN]

Snobbery has nothing to do with it...

And you wish to wear overalls to formal functions that is your prerogative.

Here is a nice website on formal definitions.. http://fashion.about.com/cs/glossary/a/partydefinition.htm

Perhaps it with help those that do not understand the various means of social acceptable dress.

[annierie]

The "well-dressed" can go stick their heads in the sand.....oh wait...they're already doing that! :eek:

 

 

This attitude is so rude, and condescending.

 

Actually, my post was TIC since I was talking about the fashion police here who believe I should stay in my suite if I don't dress according to their standards on formal night.

 

It's that attitude that led me to drop TP as a choice in the South Pacific. I don't feel like having people treat me like a social outcast if I choose not to come to dinner on formal night, and then it seems I would be confined to my suite for not dressing to someone else's standards.

[caviargal]

Exactly....so why is it that you think WE should conform to YOUR feelings?

 

This is the reason why Freestyle is so enjoyable....when the formal night is OPTIONAL, those who enjoy dressing can do so, and those who do not, don't have to be made to feel like second class citizens.

 

1) It is my my feelings, it is a published dress code. :rolleyes:

 

2) I have cruised NCL with their Freestyle concept. Did not care for it at all so it is not "so enjoyable" for everyone.

[Nliedel]

Freestyle is great for those who do not want a formal night. That said, I like formal night and it's one of the reasons I cruise. Freestyle is not for everyone. I certainly don't expect everyone to dress in super expensive clothes, but on my last cruise formal night was adhered to by most of the other cruisers and no one was complaining.

 

Different strokes...

[sesh]

I am sorry, but this is a hot button for me. I agree with Largin (for a change). People already know the rules. If you don't want to dress formal 2 nights on a 7 or 10 day cruise you have options including NCL.

 

I also have problems with people who think that they only have to dress formal for dinner. The Patter says "evening attire" not dinner attire. It is the evening "atmosphere" that makes formal nights special. The evening is ruined when we walk into the princess theatre after traditional late dinner, order an after dinner cordial and have some idiot in jeans shorts and a tank top sit down in front of us with his Miller Light beer can.

 

And then go to the casino and have to stand next to the same idiot at the craps table.

 

 

 

FORMAL NIGHT IS FORMAL NIGHT. If they don't want to participate, send them to STEARAGE.

 

JMHO

 

Rob

 

Can't see Princess agreeing to all the 'Formals' on this board saying - if you don't wanna dress up go on the competition.

 

These vacations cost a lot of money - if people want to do formal fine; if they do not fine ... I dress up for formal nights, but I don't mind if others do not and want to use the same dining rooms, bars, theatres.

[flamomo]

Sorry Tom, but I disagree with your original idea.

Why should the cruiselines have to change their attire guidelines? Because a few people choose not to comply? Why should every night be formal night in the specialty dining rooms? That's silly.

Many of us have chosen to sail with Princess because we like things just the way they are. We like to dress up ocasionally, we like the ambiance of formal nights. We like the recommended attire on other nights of resort casual for the dining rooms.

Those who insist on their casual attire of cutoffs and tank tops or shorts and t-shirts will fit right in at the buffet, which is a casual atmosphere.

Leave the dining rooms for those who consider a cruise an opportunity to wear nicer clothes and treat dinnertimes in the dining room as a special treat, as one would a nice restaurant.

That is not to say that die-hard casual dressers are any less nice than the rest of the cruisers. But, as has been said by others, they knew when they read their cruise documents, or on the Princess website, what the recommended attire was before they boarded the ship. They made their choice to dress "their way", and had to know that some would look askance at them when they showed up in the dining room, dressed caually at dinnertime. They seem to be willing to live with that, so that should not be reason to change a cruiseline's policies and guidelines.

Let's not downgrade to the completely casual level to suit the minority. Princess has too much "class" for that.

[bajaboy]

Ok, yesterday this post was at page 3 now its at page 7, geez.

 

With all that said I have a question.....

If your company were having a formal banquet at a large hotel, and were only useing one of the ball rooms, would you ask that everyone in the hotel dress in formal attire, or would you allow those not partaking in the festivities to use the other hotel facilities dressed as they are?

 

Get a life, forget about what you want others to think about you. You only have to live up to your own expectations.

 

Enjoy your vacation and let others enjoy theirs!!!!!

[Opinions]

Interesting... I am looking at the Princess Cruise Answer book and in the paragraphs under the title "Onboard Attire", the word "suggested" does not appear. In fact I cannot find that word in evening dining guidelines stated in my last 3 patters either.

 

Your not looking very hard!...In the Princess Cruise Answer Book under "Onboard Attire" the very last sentence reads "The dress code SUGGESTED" in the Princess Patter may vary from time to time"...

[flamomo]

Ok, yesterday this post was at page 3 now its at page 7, geez.

 

With all that said I have a question.....

If your company were having a formal banquet at a large hotel, and were only useing one of the ball rooms, would you ask that everyone in the hotel dress in formal attire, or would you allow those not partaking in the festivities to use the other hotel facilities dressed as they are?

 

Get a life, forget about what you want others to think about you. You only have to live up to your own expectations.

 

Enjoy your vacation and let others enjoy theirs!!!!!

 

When you "get a life", try to also think of the effects of your behavior on others in your environment. There USED to be a thing called respect for others. Sometimes "doing it your way" is very disrespectful.

 

Besides, what is being referred to here is dining rooms and formal night attire, not the rest of the ship. That's why the casual folks can enjoy their evening meal at the buffet - it's a casual setting. Casual clothes = casual dining place. For the casual dress person, that should allow them to live up to their expectations.

 

However, I agree that it is time to end this thread. It's another one of those "no-win" threads, that could be debated for 20 pages, and no consensus will be reached. Those that are determined to "do it their way" because they "paid for this cruise" don't give a rat's patootie what anyone else thinks. So let's not all sink to that level.

[judyjbest]

Cunard already does this somewhat. Your dining room is determined by the accommodation category you select. And, they market themselves as "classic and timeless voyages, respecting 'long held' tradition and 'the way things should be'." Cunard claims their style and heritage appeals to mature, sophisticated travelers with a respect for tradition.

 

I think that's what many people are really saying in this thread. They like the traditions, and they don't like seeing the movement away from the dressy formal occasion that has distinguised the cruise experience for years.

 

Unfortunately, as cruises have been embraced by a broader base of travelers, traditions are only valued by those who choose to value them. And, the cruise lines are changing their expectations of travelers to include more of their guests, rather than excluding them. This is simply good business.

 

The traveler has no control over other travelers, so they vote with their pocketbook. You either love Princess (or any other cruise line for that matter) with their diverse guests, or you find another cruise line that's values are more aligned with your own.

 

Either way, cruises are still the best way to travel ... anywhere.

[Princess Chatterer]

The line it is drawn

The curse it is cast

The slow one now

Will later be fast

As the present now

Will later be past

The order is

Rapidly fadin'.

And the first one now

Will later be last

For the times they are a-changin'

 

By Bob Dylan

 

I have noticed in my local newspaper, the Tulsa World, that the majority of engagement photos now show couples wearing casual or even western attire for their "formal" picture.

 

After much discussion with my wife I have now decided that it's my vacation and the suit and tie are staying home. Period. I already have my share of Princess formal pictures and certainly don't need more. The price I paid to get my wife's agreement was a promise of a quiet balcony dinner. This price I'll gladly pay.

[OuiOnboard]

Cunard already does this somewhat..........Either way, cruises are still the best way to travel ... anywhere.

Wow!!! I usually have to pick the points that I totally agree with...in this piece, I can heartily voice my agreement with everything you've said. Very nice presentation!!! Thanks. :)

[Princess Patches]

I like Judy's posts too. They are calm, rational and very well written. I am not sure I agree with Cunard's philosophy that it is only the mature traveler who likes formal nights. I see a lot of younger people dressed for formal night. In fact, my experience has been that it is mostly the "mature" men who complain about the hassle of wearing a suit or a tuxedo because they have done it so many times in their life.

[stellalimelight]

I find your posting very interesting. Why would you let something like ruin your evening. Yes everyone should dress formal, but it is not going to happen, so I think you would just enjoy being dressed up yourself and ignore the casual people. I don't like the people who practically knock me over to get into the Princess Theater for the shows(quite a few of them dress quite formally I might add) ruin my evening. I just go find a seat and move on. Life is to short to get all hot and bother about what people wear. I mean I think the majority of people dress formally on the cruises I have been on. Some don't, but doesnt bother me. Just my opinion.

 

 

I am sorry, but this is a hot button for me. I agree with Largin (for a change). People already know the rules. If you don't want to dress formal 2 nights on a 7 or 10 day cruise you have options including NCL.

 

I also have problems with people who think that they only have to dress formal for dinner. The Patter says "evening attire" not dinner attire. It is the evening "atmosphere" that makes formal nights special. The evening is ruined when we walk into the princess theatre after traditional late dinner, order an after dinner cordial and have some idiot in jeans shorts and a tank top sit down in front of us with his Miller Light beer can.

 

And then go to the casino and have to stand next to the same idiot at the craps table.

 

 

 

FORMAL NIGHT IS FORMAL NIGHT. If they don't want to participate, send them to STEARAGE.

 

JMHO

 

Rob

[rykersdad]

... speaking of bickering, has anyone seen Bicker lately??

[Nliedel]

... speaking of bickering, has anyone seen Bicker lately??

 

Not here, not in ages. He is on the Disney Board that I went to last year when we were planning our trip.

 

You know nothing is going to end the formal night bickering honestly... is that so horrible? Takes all kinds and I never had a problem listening to different views as long as people are respectful of one another.

[panddcruiser]

Funny story...last year on our cruise we were just sailing out of New York and I saw a couple sitting at the poolside bar and their kids were in the pool. The woman was wearing a beige crocheted dress over her bathing suit and just enjoying the music with her husband and watching her kids swim. Well first formal night comes and we are waiting for the dining room to open...elevator door opens and her are the cutest little boys all dressed like little men and Dad in a very nice suit and there is the very same Mom in that crocheted dress thingy only this time over a black slip dress. (Which I'm glad she didn't wear alone..she didn't have the shape for it) she dressed it up with pretty gold sandals and her hair was up. It struck me funny to see this....but then I thought look at this family. Dad looks like he works hard, Mom looked like she needed a vacation and these cute little guys so proud to be looking so handsome. Just looking in the elevator mirror at how they looked.

 

Maybe we should all take a look around. Maybe people that work hard should be entitled to vacations too and not have to worry as much about what to wear. I have a son who will be turning 20 this cruise and I have to say the only only time I can get him to look nice is on these Formal nights and he really enjoys it. I don't think they teach it in schools and it is an invaluable lesson on how to mingle in the world. Just knowing which silverware to use. We live in the suburbs and life has gotten very casual. I work in a hospital some of my best friends are doctors and see how casual the doctors come to the hospital these days. The world is changing. It is harder to find a store that sells lots of dresses... so that tells you something right there. Cruises are so much fun! Be waited on like kings and queens. We deserve it. On a cruise we are there to totally relax...bathing suits...sand between our toes. But how nice to come out in our best. To parade around like peacocks. Ha-ha! It's fun! It makes for a well rounded experience if thats what you chose. But as the one of the previous posts stated...I don't believe people should be eliminated or made to feel forced. They have options. As in the case of this women my afterthought was good for you honey! She probably made do with what she had to wear to dress those little boys up...maybe she even put the money towards a dolphin encounter. I think these are the things that vacations are made of. When her kids are grown she can then enjoy...treat herself and splurge on more elaborate things. I think every situation is unique and everyone should just try to adapt the best they can and enjoy! Life is short make the best of it!:o

[TexasMom2]

Cunard already does this somewhat. Your dining room is determined by the accommodation category you select. And, they market themselves as "classic and timeless voyages, respecting 'long held' tradition and 'the way things should be'." Cunard claims their style and heritage appeals to mature, sophisticated travelers with a respect for tradition.

 

I think that's what many people are really saying in this thread. They like the traditions, and they don't like seeing the movement away from the dressy formal occasion that has distinguised the cruise experience for years.

 

Unfortunately, as cruises have been embraced by a broader base of travelers, traditions are only valued by those who choose to value them. And, the cruise lines are changing their expectations of travelers to include more of their guests, rather than excluding them. This is simply good business.

 

The traveler has no control over other travelers, so they vote with their pocketbook. You either love Princess (or any other cruise line for that matter) with their diverse guests, or you find another cruise line that's values are more aligned with your own.

 

Either way, cruises are still the best way to travel ... anywhere.

 

Best post I've read in a long time.

[harry]

There was a poster who said if he felt like it?

 

While there are no laws, wearing a ballcap in a reastaurant (other than a MCDonalds or O'Flahertys Irish Pub) is just wrong

 

(See Soprano episode where tont addresses this:)

 

I do think on the "suggested" formal night (and some lawyer probably had to put that in there) I think a suit is appropriate.......

 

I guess If really necessary at least a sports jacket on those "suggested" nights should be worn....I mean guess its better than just a golf shirt

 

and furthermore on regular nights i wouldnt even think a t-shirt is acceptable.