Extra Security Precautions and time due to foiled attack on 12/25/09

[mr green]

These new 'rules', have to go, if my wife and I are to continue to fly.

Consider, a 'Pat Down', would land an offender, about two years in jail, if done any place other than an air port.

Can't leave your seat during the last hour. What do the health inspectors say about this?

Just a couple of points where our laws of decency are taking a back seat, and, in my opinion, and I can't see us being any the safer.

 

john

[west coast cruiser]

billybob is right in what he says and i agree with him, talk about over reaction? why was this guy given a visa in the first place? why was it not removed to stop him traveling despite the usa knowing about him ? why also did the usa once again ignore a warning 4 days before that there was a hightened threat?

 

Once again the orchard is cut down due to one bad apple! we too will also be reviewing whether our trip to FLL next year is worth the hassle.

 

As for stopping people using toilets and making them sit in their seats like naughty school children for the last hour of a flight just what does the buffoon who came up with it think it will solve? or refusing people pillows or blankets on flights where the captain is over zealous with the air con?

 

For it to be effective there would have to be no toilets and no overhead storage.... lunatics runnig the assylum again..... :mad:

 

They have been doing this at Reagan National since 9/11. You must remain in your seats for the first half hour at the beginning of the flight and for the last half hour of the flight.

WCC

[cruz chic]

Just a couple of points where our laws of decency are taking a back seat, and, in my opinion, and I can't see us being any the safer.

john

Is that ever the truth. They had plenty of red flags on this guy that is causing all this and no one did anything. Now..we all pay the price. Will we be any safer....I doubt it. If this is the way it's going to be I'm going to spend more vacations in Canada.

[lovesublime]

These new 'rules', have to go, if my wife and I are to continue to fly.

Consider, a 'Pat Down', would land an offender, about two years in jail, if done any place other than an air port.

Can't leave your seat during the last hour. What do the health inspectors say about this?

Just a couple of points where our laws of decency are taking a back seat, and, in my opinion, and I can't see us being any the safer.

 

john

 

 

I was patted down in the Mexico City airport last week (by a female, and she apologized profusely). Our carry ons were also hand searched twice-the first time going through regular security, the second time at the gate. It wasn't all that bad considering that ALL of our baggage was hand searched at the decrepit Acapulco airport earlier that day. Our son (on a different airline than us) waited in line nearly three hours to check in. They had one employee to check in about 250 pax for that flight. I'm thinking things could be worse here.

[pg.]

this is all very annoying.

 

 

I do not mind restricting carryons to one bag, less to search so I do understand that,, and I do not even mind the pat down,, BUT,, I do not consider it very useful,, people can conceal things where even a pat down doesn't go..

 

But the no book or tv for the last hour will drive me nuts. I am a nervous flyer and I NEED some distractions... really. Just sitting there for an hour with my hands in my lap,, oh no!

 

I think this is all a knee jerk over reaction. Sure,, do better searches,, but reallly, ,its all getting stupid now.

 

I also believe that profiling should be done,, sorry,, I just do not think they need to waste my time patting down an 80 yr old granny , or a 4 yr old girl , and they could spend a bit more time with males aged 18-40,, which btw ALL the terrorists so far have BEEN!

 

I am also FOR the whole body scanners.. they would work best, and frankly to hell with privacy,, I 'd rather been scanned then felt up..

 

PS I read somwhere some airlines are allowing NO carry ons,, what do you do with money/wallet?? I cannot imagine checking that sort of stuff??

[Crown Prince]

I wear 3 moneybelts. One for U.S. Dollars and 2 for foreign currency. I have never been asked about them, nor do I take them off. All under my underwear.

 

:D:D;):D:D

[kaycascade]

I wear 3 moneybelts. One for U.S. Dollars and 2 for foreign currency. I have never been asked about them, nor do I take them off. All under my underwear.

 

 

:D:D;):D:D

 

Well, after the shoe bomber we now have to remove our shoes to go through security. This person has the devise in his underwear.

 

Does this mean we will now have to remove our underwear??

This brings new meaning to the advise our moms gave us about always

wearing clean underwear in case of an accident.

[happy trailer]

One of the reasons for the 'no standing' rule at the end of a flight is to prevent hijacking attempts, or scenarios similar to 9/11. For at least a year (I don't remember exactly when it was instituted) all flights into Israel have had a similar restriction, with our air force at the ready in case a plane didn't respond to flight controllers properly. We've had a few incidents when fighter jets were called up to check on a non-responding flight (thankfully, to date, it's always been a case of pilot error).

 

No one goes nuts or gets angry about the restriction; flight crews make several announcements during the flight reminding passengers that the Israeli government requires all passengers to remain in their seats at the end of the flight. As the time gets closer, those announcements include reminders to use the restrooms before the restriction takes effect. I've flown in both business class and coach, and have never seen anyone trying to get to the bathroom after the deadline. And- this is often after an 11 hour flight!

 

If you fly to Tel Aviv on Continental out of Newark, the gate area for the flight is in a closed off area. About 90 minutes before boarding, this area is opened. To enter, passengers line up , present boarding passes and passports, have their carry ons carefully searched, and each passenger is wanded and often frisked as well. Then, onto another line to present passports and boarding passes to the gate agent. At boarding time, you need to present both again before being allowed on the jetway to the plane.

 

Sure, it's a bit of a pain, but you get used to it- mostly because you know it's for your safety.

 

Unfortunately, as long as there are those in this world who want to break others' freedom, and want to do so by violent, destructive, and deadly means, then the price we'll have to pay for our freedom is increased security.

 

If nothing else, this incident showed us that the TSA and similar agencies in other countries are not perfect. But, considering the number of flights in the air around the world at any given moment, I think they're doing a good job at keeping us safe. The trick is to keep finding methods to improve security- even if those methods seem, as John (Mr Green) feels, that 'our laws of decency are taking a back seat'.

 

It's sad that the days of easily hopping on a plane to fly away are long behind us. But I guess that was a different, naive world. I'll keep flying my usual 20-30 flights a year, and I'll keep adjusting what I pack and what I carry on. But, I'll always have a smile on my face and a lively step, and I'll keep saying thank you to the security personal at whichever airport I find myself.

 

Now, if only they could find away to beam us to our destinations.... :p

[sunseeker09]

They beefed up security so much after 911 but a lot of good that did. This incident is proof. Taking our carry on luggage away isn't going to fix everything.

I heard the news tonight that it was complete and utter chaos in YVR. Their systems went down on top of all the confusion. Everyone is being given a complete pat down, and for awhile there NO carry on was allowed. They showed a guy from United telling everyone that even purses, cameras... EVERYTHING had to be checked. Totally insane, ridiculous panic.

Oh, and for all of you whining about people taking carry on bags... Perhaps if the airports and airlines didn't constantly lose people's luggage we wouldn't all be so paranoid and feel we need to take so much with us as carry on. I always take an assortment of summer clothes and bathing suit etc, not to mention anything valuable. Not like you can trust anything in a checked bag. Who wants to get there and have NOTHING if your luggage doesn't arrive? Baggage insurance is a joke. It doesn't even cover the cost of your luggage.

We fly on Jan. 1 and I hope this calms down a bit by then. I love to travel, but the horror these days at airports is almost enough to put even me off.

[caribill]

I just heard no access to your laptop in the last hour is a possible addition (on ABC news) in the future so I googled it and read "no access to personal possessions" which I interpreted (maybe wrongly) as your carry ons. Not sure the last hour is so important??

 

They did this because the guy did his thing during the last hour of the flight.

 

If he had done it three hours before the flight ended, then the knee-jerk TSA reaction would be to stay in the seat for the last three hours.

[caribill]

These restrictions aren't too different than flying into Reagan National after 9/11 so IMHO, it's inconvenient but not worth driving thousands of miles.

 

There is a big difference between having to stay in your seat for 30 minutes and staying in your seat for an hour without being able to read, listen to an I-Pod, have in-flight entertainment, etc.

 

Think of it, up to 300 people on a plane unable to do anything but sit. Can't attend to a crying, hungry baby. Can get a stick of gum out to help deal with ear pain when descending. Can't drink any water if thirsty. You can do all of those things on your DCA flights during that 30 minutes.

[caribill]

I'm in Detroit, local TV news mentioned only carry on baggage will be carefully searched

 

 

Situation: Man has explosives in the underwear he is wearing.

 

Solution: Search thoroughly all carryon items up to three times before boarding the plane.

[Joshua1]

I absolutely agree with this. I understand that people who are not flying very far want to check in their luggage so there is no baggage pick up for them at the other end, but when it is transatlantic I think they should be checked and held back more and the 'one baggers' go through.

Sorry but I for one am glad they are reducing the number of carry ons allowed. All of these things people drag on board each flight slow things down for everyone. So much more time spent in security while the staff have to open up bags and confiscate items. One item per person is going to be a lot quicker than 2 per person! It will also give staff more time to really look at each item more carefully.

[caribill]

From Tuesday's New York Times:

 

The slowdown appeared to be particularly intense on flights coming from Canada. Dianne Duncan’s trip to Los Angeles from Toronto, for one, involved a 10-hour security wait, four lost bags, a missed flight and rerouting, a thorough search of her belongings, and a full-body pat-down of her and her 5-year-old daughter.

“It was extremely strict,” said Ms. Duncan, who arrived at the Toronto airport at 9:30 a.m. Sunday morning and did not reach the screening area until nearly seven hours later.

“Take note: there was no toilet, no water and no food for purchase,” she said. “There was one man to screen the men, and one woman to screen the women. There was a full pat-down. It was as if they were specifically searching for something.”

Once on board, the passengers were not allowed to have anything under the seat in front of them, nor could they get up for the last hour and a half of the flight. After missing a flight to Newark, Ms. Duncan was rerouted through Houston, where she was offered a hotel; she said she was afraid to leave the secure area.

---

At times, security on the ground was easy, but more stringent in the air. Amanda Cain, 41, flew on China Eastern from Beijing to Los Angeles with her 5-year-old daughter, Emily. The security line was a relative breeze. “They let me through easily, I think because they saw I had a small child with me,” Ms. Cain said. “I appreciated that.”

But on the plane, restricted movement and confiscated comforts took a toll.

“The last hour and a half, they said we can’t move at all,” Ms. Cain said. “That was very hard for her. The flight attendant came by and took the pillow from her head. I didn’t like that. Why did they have to wake her up? It would be better for her to sleep.”

Then Emily threw up, never any parent’s dream, but all the more unpleasant when the bathroom cannot be visited.

[phillipahain]

If TSA wants everyone to check all bags they will need to ensure :-

 

1) they relock cases after TSA inspections

 

2) That ALL items are put back in cases after TSA inspections

 

3) Deal with complaints /claims about missing/stolen items a darn site more quickly than the 9 months they took when a brand new item of mine was stolen in a TSA inspection and the case not relocked

 

4) they need to ban the sale of Duty Free Liquor onboard and on departure at airports since a broken bottle or lighted alcohol is a horrendous threat to everyones safety

 

Have Duty Free shops on Arrival instead

[tenpin]

What is it about us in today’s world why can’t we sit still for a couple of hours without resorting to cleaning our teeth fixing our hair or working on a lap-top while flying off on HOLIDAY.

Why do you need to access carry-on luggage, remove book sit down and read or sleep it’s no big deal.

I do it most nights after work in front of the television.

[h3rjp]

I can't help thinking this whole thing is an overaction. Targeting a plane simply isn't about the blowing up of one plane, with a few hundred people on board, it's about provking a reaction.

 

Think about it. If you were looking for a "body count" there's far more effcient ways of doing things; such as anywhere where large numbers of people congregate and secuirty is either light or non exsistant.

 

There are thousands, if not millions, of people that board a plane each week and the overwhelming majority of those people reach their destination without incident. But by provoking a reaction those same people have to undergo suspicion, restrictions and monumental amount of inconvinence.

 

These new restrictions don't make logical sense. How does preventing someone listening to aniPod, reading a book or simply sleeping with a blanket and pillow, for an hour prevent terrorism? As other people have pointed out, if you were detirmined to set off a bomb, you'd simply do it 1 hour and 5 minutes before touch down instead.

 

I have no problem with pre screening of passenger lists, having all bags screened etc. That's just common sense and is a realistic way to balance out risk and the potential threats posed. But these current restrictions go too far. Terrorism isn't just about dead bodies, it's about the fear of terrorism.

 

I'm sorry, but in my book this just hands them [the terrorists] a "hearts and minds" victory. The bomb may not have gone off, but the aims have been acomplished all the same.

[tenpin]

The idea about the first and last hour during transatlantic flights seems to be about the plane flying over cities, therefore causing the most damage if brought down. IMO

[tip]

That's one of the problems with the addded cost to check your luggage. Everyone tries to bring too many carry on items on board. Also, ones that are too big for the overhead compartments. Not everyone is able to find a spot for a carry on because of inconsiderate people bringing on too much stuff...

 

Well said. I have been commenting on this for years. These inconsiderate folks slow down the boarding process not to mention the struggle that ensues when deplaning. I have seen people brag on these boards that they pack everything that they need for a cruise into multiple carry-ons and get away with it!

[ibfern]

I was patted down in the Mexico City airport last week (by a female, and she apologized profusely). Our carry ons were also hand searched twice-the first time going through regular security, the second time at the gate. It wasn't all that bad considering that ALL of our baggage was hand searched at the decrepit Acapulco airport earlier that day. Our son (on a different airline than us) waited in line nearly three hours to check in. They had one employee to check in about 250 pax for that flight. I'm thinking things could be worse here.

 

 

Acapulco and Mexico City in one day??? That is enough to drive a sane person insane! We did one cruise in/out of Acapulco and never again! Never!

[ISLANDCRUSO]

There is some total drivel being spoken on here! the guy gets on an aircraft with No Hand luggage! yet everyone now has to have hand luggage searched!! ... Over reaction ? you bet your life it is ..... :mad:

 

just ground all aircraft and problem solved.

[chamima]

One of the reasons for the 'no standing' rule at the end of a flight is to prevent hijacking attempts, or scenarios similar to 9/11. For at least a year (I don't remember exactly when it was instituted) all flights into Israel have had a similar restriction, with our air force at the ready in case a plane didn't respond to flight controllers properly. We've had a few incidents when fighter jets were called up to check on a non-responding flight (thankfully, to date, it's always been a case of pilot error).

 

No one goes nuts or gets angry about the restriction; flight crews make several announcements during the flight reminding passengers that the Israeli government requires all passengers to remain in their seats at the end of the flight. As the time gets closer, those announcements include reminders to use the restrooms before the restriction takes effect. I've flown in both business class and coach, and have never seen anyone trying to get to the bathroom after the deadline. And- this is often after an 11 hour flight!

 

If you fly to Tel Aviv on Continental out of Newark, the gate area for the flight is in a closed off area. About 90 minutes before boarding, this area is opened. To enter, passengers line up , present boarding passes and passports, have their carry ons carefully searched, and each passenger is wanded and often frisked as well. Then, onto another line to present passports and boarding passes to the gate agent. At boarding time, you need to present both again before being allowed on the jetway to the plane.

 

Sure, it's a bit of a pain, but you get used to it- mostly because you know it's for your safety.

 

Unfortunately, as long as there are those in this world who want to break others' freedom, and want to do so by violent, destructive, and deadly means, then the price we'll have to pay for our freedom is increased security.

 

If nothing else, this incident showed us that the TSA and similar agencies in other countries are not perfect. But, considering the number of flights in the air around the world at any given moment, I think they're doing a good job at keeping us safe. The trick is to keep finding methods to improve security- even if those methods seem, as John (Mr Green) feels, that 'our laws of decency are taking a back seat'.

 

It's sad that the days of easily hopping on a plane to fly away are long behind us. But I guess that was a different, naive world. I'll keep flying my usual 20-30 flights a year, and I'll keep adjusting what I pack and what I carry on. But, I'll always have a smile on my face and a lively step, and I'll keep saying thank you to the security personal at whichever airport I find myself.

 

Now, if only they could find away to beam us to our destinations.... :p

 

Ruth

The part you didn't mention - and the MOST IMPORTANT PART - is that little conversation you have with the person who is checking your passport. Yes. they are profiling and that's what we're going to have to do. All the rest of this is superfluous. In Israel (and when flying to Israel) every single passenger "talks" to a security person before they even leave the main terminal. They make eye contact and ask you some seemingly innocuous questions. The one time I was lying (I was taking some clothing - ok a lot of clothing- to a friend and was worried about having to pay duty) they caught it in my demeanor and I was taken to a separate room and my carry on and checked luggage was thoroughly searched. When I finally told them that I was worried about the duty that was the end of it.)

What is it going to take before we realize that profiling is what we're going to have to do!

[bhopal21]

Acapulco and Mexico City in one day??? That is enough to drive a sane person insane! We did one cruise in/out of Acapulco and never again! Never!

 

We had them both in one day as well, back in February and like you we are also through with that.:(

 

Mike:)

[Minoushka]

My biggest worry when I travel is that dreaded 50 lb mark per bag I carry stuff in my carryon to avoid that So Airlines need to allow us a little leaway so it will not be a problem .

They can take my little wheely at the gate and I will keep my purse . I think no more wheelys on plane .Drop them off at final gate .At least you know it is on board!!!

To send all clothing is risky ..YES they have "MISPLACED my bags in the past ...wrong Carousel

I take meds which make me go a lot ...if you know what I mean .1 hour without a bathroom break is VERY long for me .NOW WHAT???

[A Sixth?]

My biggest worry when I travel is that dreaded 50 lb mark per bag I carry stuff in my carryon to avoid that So Airlines need to allow us a little leaway so it will not be a problem .

They can take my little wheely at the gate and I will keep my purse . I think no more wheelys on plane .Drop them off at final gate .At least you know it is on board!!!

To send all clothing is risky ..YES they have "MISPLACED my bags in the past ...wrong Carousel

I take meds which make me go a lot ...if you know what I mean .1 hour without a bathroom break is VERY long for me .NOW WHAT???

 

Montreal is allowing NO CARRY ON at all right now.

 

Great. Hope it changes in the next week or so....

 

(This terrorist who's caused all this change in airport security paid over $ 2K for his one way ticket, had no checked luggage for a two week visa stay and was on a watch list.... how did he get on an aircraft:confused:. The authorities answer to improve security baffles, restrict carry-on and blankets availability in flight. Meanwhile many airports aren't using scanners that may have been able detect this idiots device are sitting unused because of some morons worries that it may invade their "personal privacy" (some are, but clearly the motivation isn't there to make them standard issue and procedure)

 

Maybe it would make sense to make people check their undies at security since the active agent was in his gounch, not carry on.