Passengers removed from ship for failure to muster

[Fouremco]

Would it have really made a difference?

 

I think anyone with a starboard cabin probably would have not stood around at their station while the ship listed to the starboard.

 

Then there were those on the port side... Could not even launch some of those life boats.

 

And... who was at the helm directing the evacuation?

 

So let's just throw up our hands and not have them at all?

 

At least with the drill you know where you SHOULD go and what the procedure SHOULD be. And clearly someone in charge of rules agrees with me since they now require them before sailing.

 

I'd personally have knowledge of what should happen so that in the event of an emergency I can use that knowledge to do everything I can to save myself and help others.

 

And going to the other posts that they don't check off everyone in the room... WOW. That really makes me feel safe going into this cruise.

I suspect that the major benefit foreseen by those cruise lines having muster stations inside had nothing to do with passenger comfort during drills. Rather, it was the knowledge that in a situation calling for the use of lifeboats, some may not be available to launch. By meeting at an inside muster station, crew members can then direct them to functional lifeboats. I find HAL's focus on assigning passengers to specific lifeboats ignores the reality of what happens in a real emergency.

[shrimp56]

Tampa Girl, to answer your question; it's not against then rules to bring a drink, but it defeats the purpose of the drill, as does talking on a cell phone, showing pics of the kids and grandchildren, grab-a$$ing, etc.

I've been a good girl ever since I took a G&T to an early 80s drill on the old QE2 and got my wrist slapped.

 

Re: Celebrity. I like sitting down, but my muster station was at the other end of the ship from my cabin. I understand that not all lifeboats might be available in a real disaster, but I really didn't like not knowing which life boat as mine. I also thought making folks walk the length of the ship in a real emergency was questionable.

 

Re: "grab-a$$ing" On HAL most of my lifeboat companions were having trouble standing let alone being frisky.

Edited July 23, 2014 by shrimp56

[Fouremco]

I've been a good girl ever since I took a G&T to an early 80s drill on the old QE2 and got my wrist slapped.

 

Re: Celebrity. I like sitting down, but my muster station was at the other end of the ship from my cabin. I understand that not all lifeboats might be available in a real disaster, but I really didn't like not knowing which life boat as mine. I also thought making folks walk the length of the ship in a real emergency was questionable

Assuming, of course, that they are in their cabins when called to muster stations.

Edited July 23, 2014 by Fouremco

[Dismomx5]

Scanning is in the works with HAL; it involves technical preparations on all fifteen ships. It still requires fine folks to make a physical appearance heeding the three separate "heads up" announcements given by the CD over the P/A system starting at 30 minutes prior to the drill. If everyone shows up on time and goes where they're supposed to, is quite on deck when the drill commences, the event is over in 20-25 minutes and the vacation can officially start

Thank heavens! I've got a headache from trying to remember what happened to us 10 days ago on the Zuiderdam. I gave our cards to the crew member who scanned them and directed us to a place to stand. Shortly thereafter, the...."we're waiting for '5017' and '5009'", a few calls for those staterooms from the crew. To my knowledge neither group made it, but the whole procedure was painless....probably 15 minutes on deck. There was another emergency drill in Skagway (when the land tour joined us) plus another just for crew a few days later.

[cbr663]

Let's not forget that the purpose of the muster drill is to help prepare you for an emergency. The very first goal is to recognize that there is an actual emergency. That is accomplished by ringing the emergency bell. I don't know how effective that is when passengers are all huddled outside on a noisy deck.

 

The second goal is to make sure that passengers understand that they are to take direction from the Captain and crew during an emergency. For instance, no one should be going to their life boat unless instructed. Again, don't know whether that message gets across to everyone at attendance.

 

Another goal of the muster drill is for the crew to prepare for an actual emergency. If the crew members are unable to control the crowds and the noise levels when the ship is tied up at a pier, I shudder to think what would happen during an actual emergency.

 

Getting to and locating your life boat is a great exercise, but much of the success of the muster depends upon passengers receiving the correct messages. Creating an environment which encourages passengers to actually listen is paramount to fulfilling this goal. I don't think that cramming thousands of passengers on an outside noisy deck accomplishes that goal. Instead, our experience is that the muster that many simply endure and tolerate.

 

I must admit, I have always felt that if this is what things are like during a simple drill while tied to a pier, we are big trouble should a real emergency happen.

[Typhoon1]

Scanning is in the works with HAL; it involves technical preparations on all fifteen ships. It still requires fine folks to make a physical appearance heeding the three separate "heads up" announcements given by the CD over the P/A system starting at 30 minutes prior to the drill. If everyone shows up on time and goes where they're supposed to, is quite on deck when the drill commences, the event is over in 20-25 minutes and the vacation can officially start

 

HAL has a lot of things in the works.

 

It seems to take them forever to get something accomplished.

[BruceMuzz]

While HAL's policy is that all passengers attend, its practice does not enforce this. HAL just requires that someone shout "HERE" after your name or cabin number is called. There is a difference. HAL has no idea whether a particular passenger attended the muster drill, all it knows is that someone shouted "HERE" after a particular name was called. This is a glaring weakness in the current procedure.

 

But there are other procedures in place that you are not aware of to cover that glaring weakness you noticed.

While all the HAL passengers are attending the drill, the crew does a complete security check of the ship's interior. Every public area and every passenger cabin is searched for passengers not attending the drill. Any pax not attending are sent to the boat deck and also reported to the bridge.

As Copper mentioned, HAL will soon introduce electronic mustering. Your cabin key will be scanned at the muster station - as Princess now does - to ensure they know where you are.

[cbr663]

Makes me wonder how many other times your cabin is accessed without your knowledge. This fact does not sit well with me.

[sail7seas]

Makes me wonder how many other times your cabin is accessed without your knowledge. This fact does not sit well with me.

 

Hotel Manager, Captain, Chief Housekeeper, Maintenance people go into cabins for inspections and repairs/maintenance. Why would that be upsetting to you? Except for emergency repairs, you would be notified in advance if maitnenace/repairs needed to be done and could plan your day around the times.

 

Do you think the Hotel Manager, Captain or Chief Housekeeper is going to disturb any of your property? :confused: They are checking on the condition of the cabin and probably how well the stewards are servicing it.

 

[Tampa Girl]

In post 314 you quoted my 2 1/2 year old comment and said:

 

 

 

Then Sapper 1 responded to you with reference to your quoting me:

 

 

 

To which you replied

 

 

 

.... which seemed to me to be referencing back to your question to ME in post 314.... so that is why I quoted your comment. And answered it as best as I could.

 

Wow! So confusing! But, no, I wasn't responding to your earlier question. Sorry for all the confusion.

 

And, Copper 10 - thanks for the info. I couldn't remember if bringing any drinks or food was verboten at muster.

[pris993]

May be true, but I also want confirmation. Were they kicked off for failing to attend, or for failing the attitude test when told they had to attend.... Or some other stupidity during the process?

 

I suspect if true - more along the lines you are suggesting.

[mountainmare]

I agree that they probably said something like"We're not going--what can you do about it" and found out.

On the other hand (and I will get flamed) I think the way HAL does the muster now is of no help at all in the case of a real emergency. Having people group under their lifeboats is not as helpful as having them meet in a known public lounge or other area as is done on other lines. If an emergency would happen in the middle of the night when everyone is in their cabin ...fine. Suppose their is a fire or something else at the lifeboat, and that is where you go--what then? Suppose it happens during dinner (some on Concordia were dining), does everyone rush the length of the ship to cabins and then to lifeboats that may or may not be accessible? I think it makes more sense to meet in a familiar place and practice putting on life jackets. The standing by the life boats just doesn't make sense given that in a real abandon ship some of the life boats wouldn't be usable.

[sail7seas]

While I agree it would be more comfortable seated in a lounge for life boat drill, I'll yield to HAL's experience and training. They've been sending these ships to sea for a great many years....... it's over 150 years, isn't it? I suspect they know a whole lot more about life boat drills than I will ever know. :o

 

[Linda&Vern]

I agree that they probably said something like"We're not going--what can you do about it" and found out.

On the other hand (and I will get flamed) I think the way HAL does the muster now is of no help at all in the case of a real emergency. Having people group under their lifeboats is not as helpful as having them meet in a known public lounge or other area as is done on other lines. If an emergency would happen in the middle of the night when everyone is in their cabin ...fine. Suppose their is a fire or something else at the lifeboat, and that is where you go--what then? Suppose it happens during dinner (some on Concordia were dining), does everyone rush the length of the ship to cabins and then to lifeboats that may or may not be accessible? I think it makes more sense to meet in a familiar place and practice putting on life jackets. The standing by the life boats just doesn't make sense given that in a real abandon ship some of the life boats wouldn't be usable.[/QUOTE]

At the same time ... in a real abandon ship situation, some of those lounges you want your safety drill held in might not be usable. Then where do you go for instructions? Me - I'll be standing as close to lifeboat # as I can get ... unless I hear an announcement advising otherwise.

Edited July 25, 2014 by Linda&Vern

[RuthC]

At the same time ... in a real abandon ship situation, some of those lounges you want your safety drill held in might not be usable. Then where do you go for instructions? Me - I'll be standing as close to lifeboat # as I can get ... unless I hear an announcement advising otherwise.

I'll be right there with you.

 

The example of fire is a good one: a fire is more likely to break out in a lounge than out by the lifeboats.

Would those who prefer to muster in a lounge really want to head up to the Crow's Nest when the urge is strong to get to the little boat that's going to be the way off the ship?

[Linda&Vern]

I'll be right there with you. <snip>

PLEASE bring your stash of Chocolates. There will be stress, and that's when I need my chocolate! :D

[mcmarya]

Hopefully HAL will start using scanning technology soon to verify attendance at drills. They did that on our Princess cruise which made a lot of sense. What did not make sense on that cruise was having muster stations in lounges. Ours was the main showroom. Even for the drill, no one wanted to sit in the center of a long row when it would take forever to get out. In a real emergency, there would be total chaos since no one would want to find a seat where they might be trapped as the ship went down or went up in flames.

[Sir PMP]

On all the Hal cruises I've been on, the muster drill occurs after we left port and are out to sea.

How do they remove passengers in the middle of the ocean?

 

 

You'll notice at dinner time..

[DeeniEncinitas]

I'll be right there with you.

 

The example of fire is a good one: a fire is more likely to break out in a lounge than out by the lifeboats.

Would those who prefer to muster in a lounge really want to head up to the Crow's Nest when the urge is strong to get to the little boat that's going to be the way off the ship?

 

Ruth I have sailed a lot on HAL but am new to CC. I sure do agree with you 100%! Ditto:)

 

3StarMariner becoming 4Star on next cruise

Sailing Nieuw Amsterdam 3/15/2015 14day Western/Eastern Caribbean Cruise

[sail7seas]

You'll notice at dinner time..

 

 

With very few exceptions due to varying circumstances, HAL conducts life boat drill prior to sailing.

 

We were on Veendam last August when there were several people who did not appear for lifeboat drill despite being paged and 'warned'.

 

We sailed and shortly thereafter Captain came on the speaker system and advised those guests they were to report to a specified location NOW. Were they to not appear, he hoped they enjoyed their dinner that night as it would be their last aboard. There would be put ashore in the morning and it would be their problem to find their way home.

 

Edited July 26, 2014 by sail7seas

[Aquahound]

The example of fire is a good one: a fire is more likely to break out in a lounge than out by the lifeboats.

 

This is not correct. History says otherwise. Take a look at the more recent cruise ship fires, like Grandeur of the Seas and Star Princess. They were outside. Even when the Ecstasy caught fire, the entire stern was inundated. Most modern cruise ship fires have either been in the engine room or on the outer decks.

 

Besides, even if a fire did break out in a lounge, where do you think the smoke is going to go?

 

Star Princess is a perfect example. Thank God they got that fire out and the ship made it to port. The port side lifeboats were useless in that fire.

Edited July 26, 2014 by Aquahound

[Fouremco]

This is not correct. History says otherwise. Take a look at the more recent cruise ship fires, like Grandeur of the Seas and Star Princess. They were outside. Even when the Ecstasy caught fire, the entire stern was inundated. Most modern cruise ship fires have either been in the engine room or on the outer decks.

 

Besides, even if a fire did break out in a lounge, where do you think the smoke is going to go?

I agree. The majority of cruise lines have indoor muster stations and clearly wouldn't do so if these locations represented a fire risk.

[sail7seas]

Hypothetically.....

 

Seeing HAL has trained and drilled over and over and over for decades for life boat drills to be conducted on deck at the life boat stations, Hypothetically, were they to switch to indoor muster stations how long would it take until crew is retrained to the point their actions and reactions in an emergency would become automatic they way they now have been trained.

 

I would foresee a long transition period when safety would be compromised.

 

Edited July 26, 2014 by sail7seas

[donaldsc]

With very few exceptions due to varying circumstances, HAL conducts life boat drill prior to sailing.

 

We were on Veendam last August when there were several people who did not appear for lifeboat drill despite being paged and 'warned'.

 

We sailed and shortly thereafter Captain came on the speaker system and advised those guests they were to report to a specified location NOW. Were they to not appear, he hoped they enjoyed their dinner that night as it would be their last aboard. There would be put ashore in the morning and it would be their problem to find their way home.

 

 

They should have been put ashore immediately on a small life raft w/o food or water. That would teach them.

 

DON

[sail7seas]

They should have been put ashore immediately on a small life raft w/o food or water. That would teach them.

 

DON

 

Hopefully in shark infested waters......... :D