Did Princess Make a Mistake with the Royal Princess

[PescadoAmarillo]

At best, they are changes designed to boost profit with the hopes that many cruisers would simply shrug of the decreased amenities in trade for other technological advancements.

What other technological advancements? Seriously, even with the TV upgrades, technologically the Royal is still a 20th century ship. Other cruise lines are years ahead of it.

[PhoenixRev]

If we make the assumption that Princess did market analysis, they must have identified a customer base for the designed product. Given the response at least on here, a good number of current customers may not be that base. Therefore, they have identified a target cruiser for the build that may be outside the current typical Princess demographic, one for example, in which the size of the balcony is less important than the existence of one...

 

I am sure that Princess has something in their hands called "market analysis," but I am dubious as to what that entails unless I can see exactly what they were analyzing and under what conditions people said they appreciate smaller balconies, no central staircase, etc. (Of course, we will never see it.)

 

Let me give you a great example. After the economy collapsed in 2008 and 2009, my local Safeway started carrying 1.5 quart sized packages of their house brand ice cream which I like. Normally, they were a full half gallon. In conjunction with that, the price noticeably increased. I know the manager of this Safeway and I asked him about it and he said the corporate office said their market research indicated that people appreciated the smaller size, even at higher prices. He then, appropriately, rolled his eyes.

 

We don't know what the research entailed that lead to the smaller ice cream package, but I have yet to fine a single person that is desirous of getting less for more money. That being said, I know how you can get the market research that says that. Here is the question we would normally expect:

 

"Safeway has recently started selling smaller sizes of its house brand ice cream. Do you favor paying more for that smaller size? Yes or no."

 

Now, here's the question that gets Safeway what it wants:

 

"Safeway has recently started selling smaller sizes of its house brand ice cream. Safeway is also increasing the cost of these smaller sizes, otherwise they will have to discontinue selling their house brand. Do you favor paying more for that smaller size? Yes or no."

 

Likewise, all it takes is one sentence for Princess to get people to agree that smaller balconies, no central staircase, etc. are favorable ideas even if people aren't thrilled with the new changes.

[CaribbeanIsland]

I am sure that Princess has something in their hands called "market analysis," but I am dubious as to what that entails unless I can see exactly what they were analyzing and under what conditions people said they appreciate smaller balconies, no central staircase, etc. (Of course, we will never see it.)

 

 

The market analysis is based on how to maximize revenues. They are not catering to past passengers but see the majority of people who have never cruised and are trying to bring them into cruising. Cruising for the masses. They will ultimately need to discount this ship to fill it.

[hubofhockey]

The market analysis is based on how to maximize revenues. They are not catering to past passengers but see the majority of people who have never cruised and are trying to bring them into cruising. Cruising for the masses. They will ultimately need to discount this ship to fill it.

 

In general, Princess is usually not catering to those new to cruising because the target is not those in their 20s and 30s. I am not sure how this ship is cruising for the masses any more than the Ruby is.

[PescadoAmarillo]

We've had this discussion forever on these boards, but I think it's worth mentioning again. First, why do we think the Royal Princess will appeal to new cruisers more than any other Princess ship? It probably won't. I can see where it might appeal to people who cruise primarily for the spa treatments -the spa looks incredible- but they could just as easily be existing cruisers as new cruisers. If there are enough of these people who want to spend $$$ on spa treatments and the Sanctuary and Retreat Pool cabanas to fill the ship, then Princess did it right. If not...

 

Second, this is where RC and Celebrity and Azamara absolutely do it right. They hook young cruisers and families on RC, and then, as they mature, they can move on to Celebrity and even to Azamara and their loyalty benefits are basically transferable. This is forward thinking. CCL brands, by not doing this, risk losing a cruiser every time they outgrow a cruise line. I know many here disagree with this, and predict the sky will fall if we allow other CCL brand cruisers equal access to benefits on Princess, but that's a heck of a lot cheaper (and more effective) in the long run than building a ship that risks simultaneously turning off past passengers while not attracting new ones.

[The Big Booper]

We've had this discussion forever on these boards, but I think it's worth mentioning again. First, why do we think the Royal Princess will appeal to new cruisers more than any other Princess ship? It probably won't. I can see where it might appeal to people who cruise primarily for the spa treatments -the spa looks incredible- but they could just as easily be existing cruisers as new cruisers. If there are enough of these people who want to spend $$$ on spa treatments and the Sanctuary and Retreat Pool cabanas to fill the ship, then Princess did it right. If not...

 

Second, this is where RC and Celebrity and Azamara absolutely do it right. They hook young cruisers and families on RC, and then, as they mature, they can move on to Celebrity and even to Azamara and their loyalty benefits are basically transferable. This is forward thinking. CCL brands, by not doing this, risk losing a cruiser every time they outgrow a cruise line. I know many here disagree with this, and predict the sky will fall if we allow other CCL brand cruisers equal access to benefits on Princess, but that's a heck of a lot cheaper (and more effective) in the long run than building a ship that risks simultaneously turning off past passengers while not attracting new ones.

 

Oasis/Allure are enticing to first timers and here comes the Quantum class with 80 sq. foot balconies standard along with RCI's 21st century technology such as public fixed mounted IPAD devices,fully interactive cabin TVs/computer monitors etc.

 

And NO elevator banks without an accompanying stairway.

 

Since we are moving to Fla., home of no-fly cruising, we thought we might try the RP out. After following these threads, we'll stick to the Celebrity S ships. Great ships properly engineered and laid out.

[CaribbeanIsland]

In general, Princess is usually not catering to those new to cruising because the target is not those in their 20s and 30s. I am not sure how this ship is cruising for the masses any more than the Ruby is.

 

New cruisers don't have to be those in the 20's and 30's. Less than 20% of the adult population have cruised. I have friends in their 60's who just took their first cruise. Cruising used to be a luxury. Now it is affordable to the masses. Lines are going after those who have never cruised before, not just young individuals.

[Loonbeam]

And this is where RCCL has a huge advantage.

 

The RP is a fairly obvious nod to the newer Celebrity ships and a little to the Oasis and Allure, both relative successes when the RP was being designed several years ago. Notable in those successes is the revenue generated from an astounding amount of fee venues (the Oasis has like 20 dining options). So they tried to duplicate some of that success.

 

However, since its their ship, Royal gets quality feedback from day 1, while other lines have to do traditional market research. So if people are complaining about balcony size day 1, RCCL knows that, where as Princess is just seeing people rave about Central Park, etc in the mass media (look at historical coverage).

 

What Princess fairly takes away from that is people don't mind smaller balconies if you give them more places to eat. I am over simplifying of course. Meanwhile, RCCL is using that feedback to produce the next generation of ships, the Quantum (which I have to admit is the new build I am most excited about).

 

Now, why would Princess do this you ask? Demo. Princess does a very good job retaining cruisers but is not as good at attracting new ones. Good stability, bad revenue growth model. So when designing a new class of ship, they went with what they thought would lure people from other lines without sacrificing the Princess Image.

 

Was this the right call? Won't know for a while. My PERSONAL opinion is no, they managed to make a design that regulars do not seem to be fond of, and with very little wow factor to lure in new cruisers because I think they focused on the wrong things. But I could be wrong as I don't have the numbers they do.

 

Then again, I also fault Princess for doing almost zero mass media marketing and have for years, so I doubt they listen to me much.

 

The thread topic is "Did Princess make A mistake with the Royal Princess". The question might be "Did Princess make mistakes with the Royal Princess" and the answer is yes, as it will be for ANY new class of ship. The root issue is are those mistakes critical or will they turn out to be fairly minor in the long run. That question will be answered in about a year when we can look at cabin prices compared to the rest of the fleet and competition on the same route at sailing, after the new ship smell has worn off. And of course, we won't know onboard revenue numbers which makes a difference.

 

 

 

 

 

Oasis/Allure are enticing to first timers and here comes the Quantum class with 80 sq. foot balconies standard along with RCI's 21st century technology such as public fixed mounted IPAD devices,fully interactive cabin TVs/computer monitors etc.

 

And NO elevator banks without an accompanying stairway.

 

Since we are moving to Fla., home of no-fly cruising, we thought we might try the RP out. After following these threads, we'll stick to the Celebrity S ships. Great ships properly engineered and laid out.

[hubofhockey]

New cruisers don't have to be those in the 20's and 30's. Less than 20% of the adult population have cruised. I have friends in their 60's who just took their first cruise. Cruising used to be a luxury. Now it is affordable to the masses. Lines are going after those who have never cruised before, not just young individuals.

 

Now???? Cruising has been affordable for years and Princess is generally not an entry line and the Royal Princess doesn't bring enough to the table to change that. What they have done is provide this ship with its signature itinerary, the Grand Med. once on, the hope is the passengers will gravitate toward the revenue generating centers of the ship. They have also moved revenue generating facilities to encroach upon the traditional non-revenue generating centers.

 

We chose the ship because we like Princess and the Baltic/Scandinavia itinerary was always on our to do list. We're taking advantage of the new deluxe balcony cabins and we'll use the Enclave on days at sea as long as we don't have to book it for 11 days. We won't be doing any Princess excursions, paying $20 for fondue or $20 for previously frozen crab claws, or even paying for cabanas or sanctuary. The Royal Love threads say not to worry about the lack of pools and I'm not buying that and would never book this ship for a Caribbean cruise.

[JimmyVWine]

They are not catering to past passengers but see the majority of people who have never cruised and are trying to bring them into cruising. Cruising for the masses.

I'm curious as to what features you think they placed on Royal that would attract a never-before-cruiser? "Hey Honey! Princess just launched a ship that has smaller balconies! Let's start packing!". Or: "Honey, Princess just launched a ship that has even more "pay for" dining options than ever before, and the Chef's Table is the most expensive in the fleet. Now's the time to consider a cruise!".

 

While I don't for a second question that what you stated is what Princess should have done. But I just don't seee that they did what you suggest. As pointed out above, never-before-cruisers who want a magnificent spa or a poolside cabana now have a viable option to sail on. But how many people in the "masses" were not cruising due to the absence of these features and who will now book a cruise because of them? Has to be a very, very small number. If anything, Royal seems to be ringing the bell with a percentage of loyal Princess cruisers who are basking in their new toy. But I haven't yet seen any suggestion, here or otherwise, that Royal rolled out new and unique features that drew them to cruising for the first time.

[capriccio]

And this is where RCCL has a huge advantage.

 

The RP is a fairly obvious nod to the newer Celebrity ships and a little to the Oasis and Allure, both relative successes when the RP was being designed several years ago. Notable in those successes is the revenue generated from an astounding amount of fee venues (the Oasis has like 20 dining options). So they tried to duplicate some of that success.

 

However, since its their ship, Royal gets quality feedback from day 1, while other lines have to do traditional market research. So if people are complaining about balcony size day 1, RCCL knows that, where as Princess is just seeing people rave about Central Park, etc in the mass media (look at historical coverage).

 

What Princess fairly takes away from that is people don't mind smaller balconies if you give them more places to eat. I am over simplifying of course. Meanwhile, RCCL is using that feedback to produce the next generation of ships, the Quantum (which I have to admit is the new build I am most excited about).

 

Now, why would Princess do this you ask? Demo. Princess does a very good job retaining cruisers but is not as good at attracting new ones. Good stability, bad revenue growth model. So when designing a new class of ship, they went with what they thought would lure people from other lines without sacrificing the Princess Image.

 

Was this the right call? Won't know for a while. My PERSONAL opinion is no, they managed to make a design that regulars do not seem to be fond of, and with very little wow factor to lure in new cruisers because I think they focused on the wrong things. But I could be wrong as I don't have the numbers they do.

 

Then again, I also fault Princess for doing almost zero mass media marketing and have for years, so I doubt they listen to me much.

 

The thread topic is "Did Princess make A mistake with the Royal Princess". The question might be "Did Princess make mistakes with the Royal Princess" and the answer is yes, as it will be for ANY new class of ship. The root issue is are those mistakes critical or will they turn out to be fairly minor in the long run. That question will be answered in about a year when we can look at cabin prices compared to the rest of the fleet and competition on the same route at sailing, after the new ship smell has worn off. And of course, we won't know onboard revenue numbers which makes a difference.

 

Loonbeam - I always enjoy your calm, well reasoned and knowledgeable comments on a variety of cruising industry questions. I oftentimes learn something new too. Thanks!

[sunsetbeachgal]

Good post Loonbeam. I will be sailing on the Royal in two weeks, so can better comment then.

 

My big issue with Princess currently is same old, same old itineraries, especially Caribbean. We (two couples) just booked a Holland America cruise due to better itinerary and MUCH better price. Princess has only three stops in their 7 day cruises, one of which is Princess Cay, where many other lines have four. And with the ten day Caribbean cruises, the itineraries basically haven't changed in years. Their Europe itineraries don't change much either. Hate to go to other lines where I'm not Elite as I am on Princess, but oh well!

 

The Oasis and Allure have less than exciting itineraries, but the ship is the destination. Only time will tell if folks feel that way about Royal and Regal!

[CI66774]

And this is where RCCL has a huge advantage.

 

The RP is a fairly obvious nod to the newer Celebrity ships and a little to the Oasis and Allure, both relative successes when the RP was being designed several years ago. Notable in those successes is the revenue generated from an astounding amount of fee venues (the Oasis has like 20 dining options). So they tried to duplicate some of that success.

 

However, since its their ship, Royal gets quality feedback from day 1, while other lines have to do traditional market research. So if people are complaining about balcony size day 1, RCCL knows that, where as Princess is just seeing people rave about Central Park, etc in the mass media (look at historical coverage).

 

What Princess fairly takes away from that is people don't mind smaller balconies if you give them more places to eat. I am over simplifying of course. Meanwhile, RCCL is using that feedback to produce the next generation of ships, the Quantum (which I have to admit is the new build I am most excited about).

 

Now, why would Princess do this you ask? Demo. Princess does a very good job retaining cruisers but is not as good at attracting new ones. Good stability, bad revenue growth model. So when designing a new class of ship, they went with what they thought would lure people from other lines without sacrificing the Princess Image.

 

Was this the right call? Won't know for a while. My PERSONAL opinion is no, they managed to make a design that regulars do not seem to be fond of, and with very little wow factor to lure in new cruisers because I think they focused on the wrong things. But I could be wrong as I don't have the numbers they do.

 

Then again, I also fault Princess for doing almost zero mass media marketing and have for years, so I doubt they listen to me much.

 

The thread topic is "Did Princess make A mistake with the Royal Princess". The question might be "Did Princess make mistakes with the Royal Princess" and the answer is yes, as it will be for ANY new class of ship. The root issue is are those mistakes critical or will they turn out to be fairly minor in the long run. That question will be answered in about a year when we can look at cabin prices compared to the rest of the fleet and competition on the same route at sailing, after the new ship smell has worn off. And of course, we won't know onboard revenue numbers which makes a difference.

 

Agree - only time will tell. Lots of people don't like the Oasis/Allure because it doesn't feel like a ship. Lots of people don't like the Epic/Breakaway because of tiny staterooms and weird bathroom configs. If Royal is a success for Princess, more power to the company and to the cruisers who will enjoy her.

[hubofhockey]

Agree - only time will tell. Lots of people don't like the Oasis/Allure because it doesn't feel like a ship. Lots of people don't like the Epic/Breakaway because of tiny staterooms and weird bathroom configs. If Royal is a success for Princess, more power to the company and to the cruisers who will enjoy her.

 

Oasis/Allure have been such a success that they are building a third one. Not every ship is right for everyone, but the Royal, after initial reviews and sailings, is getting mixed reviews. I would think that Princess had hoped for better reaction.

[Shogun]

Hi All

 

Princess did make one very big mistake on the pre view cruises they marketed them heavily to non Princess cruisers the result was many of the first reviews were from folks that like P & O they then complain about lack in cabin tea making facilities like wish cruisers that go Cunard complained.... Well you get the idea. Princess should have flooded the present view cruises with Elite Princess cruisers the reviews would have been so different

 

Yours Shogun

 

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Forums mobile app

[PescadoAmarillo]

Hi All

 

Princess did make one very big mistake on the pre view cruises they marketed them heavily to non Princess cruisers the result was many of the first reviews were from folks that like P & O they then complain about lack in cabin tea making facilities like wish cruisers that go Cunard complained.... Well you get the idea. Princess should have flooded the present view cruises with Elite Princess cruisers the reviews would have been so different

 

Yours Shogun

 

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Forums mobile app

I agree with this completely. Those early reviews complaining about the autotip, tea kettles, formal night confusion, pricing...what a waste. Does the Regal launch in Southhampton? If so, Princess would be wise to market it differently.

[sunsetbeachgal]

Hi All

 

Princess did make one very big mistake on the pre view cruises they marketed them heavily to non Princess cruisers the result was many of the first reviews were from folks that like P & O they then complain about lack in cabin tea making facilities like wish cruisers that go Cunard complained.... Well you get the idea. Princess should have flooded the present view cruises with Elite Princess cruisers the reviews would have been so different

 

Yours Shogun

 

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Forums mobile app

 

I got this impression reading the reviews, which is why I really paid the most attention to what you thought of her. Many of the people's signatures reflected very little Princess cruising. And if I hear one more question or comment about "kettles"...LOL! ;)

[Shogun]

Hi sunsetbeachgirl

 

Ahhhh that was a nice thing to say

 

Yours Shogun

 

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Forums mobile app

[Casey12]

Hi All

 

Princess did make one very big mistake on the pre view cruises they marketed them heavily to non Princess cruisers the result was many of the first reviews were from folks that like P & O they then complain about lack in cabin tea making facilities like wish cruisers that go Cunard complained.... Well you get the idea. Princess should have flooded the present view cruises with Elite Princess cruisers the reviews would have been so different

 

Yours Shogun

 

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Forums mobile app

 

I think it is difficult to get Princess US Elite cruisers from the US to fly to Europe for 2-3 night cruises.

 

Once the newness of this ship wears out --- this ship will go for dirt cheap in the Caribbean. People will look at RCCL and the prices and go with Princess because they will be significantly cheaper. In return- - Princess will lower food standards trying to stay profitable.

[Mom33]

Should Princess have built the Royal to boast a waterpark and slide on the top deck? Should they have added a zip line, skating rink, and inside balconies? Should they have made the Royal Princess a floating amusement park. Oasis and Allure are not our cup of tea. There are many money making add ons on these ships.

We prefer the elegant atmosphere of Royal Princess and we are looking forward to experiencing the ship. Princess has served us well in the past and before I would negatively review the ship, I would sail her.

 

Criticizing Royal Princess because it is missing things that you want it to have is

one thing. But condemning the ship to fail is quite another.

[JimmyVWine]

 

Criticizing Royal Princess because it is missing things that you want it to have is

one thing. But condemning the ship to fail is quite another.

I think that folks here are most definitely doing the former and not the latter. A "missed opportunity" is not same as "failure". As for sailing her first, well, that's a several thousand dollar experiment. Some of the design choices are very obvious to the point that one does not have to experience them to know that they won't suit you.

[The Big Booper]

Should Princess have built the Royal to boast a waterpark and slide on the top deck? Should they have added a zip line, skating rink, and inside balconies? Should they have made the Royal Princess a floating amusement park. Oasis and Allure are not our cup of tea. There are many money making add ons on these ships.

We prefer the elegant atmosphere of Royal Princess and we are looking forward to experiencing the ship. Princess has served us well in the past and before I would negatively review the ship, I would sail her.

 

Criticizing Royal Princess because it is missing things that you want it to have is

one thing. But condemning the ship to fail is quite another.

 

The real competition for a ship like the Royal Princess is the Celebrity "S" class which has none of the features you denigrate. They have 5 of these ships all of which are doing well. And have large cabins and balconies and stairways in all the elevator lobbies. And 21st century electronics. And a much more favorable space to passenger ratio. We were thinking of trying the RP and have decided to stay with Celebrity after our Oasis cruise which should be as enjoyable as our b2b Allure and Disney Fantasy cruises.

 

How many other people who cruise frequently among different lines will be giving the RP a pass because of design deficiencies.

 

And by the way, the zip line, flowrider, rock wall, skating rink and children's water park are all free. RCI does not charge to use them. RCI does not have water slides.

 

And the issue of the P & O cruisers on the inaugurals, complaining about teakettles etc, the big RCI Independence, which spends 5-6 months in Southampton every year, has had tea kettles since day one. How come an American company knows that......and Princess, with a British sister company, didn't know that.

[Mom33]

I think that folks here are most definitely doing the former and not the latter. A "missed opportunity" is not same as "failure". As for sailing her first, well, that's a several thousand dollar experiment. Some of the design choices are very obvious to the point that one does not have to experience them to know that they won't suit you.

 

Precisely,they don't suit you. But posting here and saying that Princess made a disastrous marketing mistake and will never fill the ship because they don't suit you is the problem. It is your problem to deal with. You aren't going to persuade me or many others not to sail her no matter how many negative comments you make about the ship.

[Mom33]

The real competition for a ship like the Royal Princess is the Celebrity "S" class which has none of the features you denigrate. They have 5 of these ships all of which are doing well. And have large cabins and balconies and stairways in all the elevator lobbies. And 21st century electronics. And a much more favorable space to passenger ratio. We were thinking of trying the RP and have decided to stay with Celebrity after our Oasis cruise which should be as enjoyable as our b2b Allure and Disney Fantasy cruises.

 

How many other people who cruise frequently among different lines will be giving the RP a pass because of design deficiencies.

 

And by the way, the zip line, flowrider, rock wall, skating rink and children's water park are all free. RCI does not charge to use them. RCI does not have water slides.

 

And the issue of the P & O cruisers on the inaugurals, complaining about teakettles etc, the big RCI Independence, which spends 5-6 months in Southampton every year, has had tea kettles since day one. How come an American company knows that......and Princess, with a British sister company, didn't know that.

 

Wonderful then, you have a cruiseline to sail on that meets your needs. So why are you here knocking Princess?

[The Big Booper]

Wonderful then, you have a cruiseline to sail on that meets your needs. So why are you here knocking Princess?

 

Did you read my posts? Over and over I said that the only reason I was on the Princess boards was to see if we should try Princess again after 10 years away.

 

And we felt that there was no reason to because of design deficiencies.

 

I feel that we are a demographic that Princess would like to entice in again....and the RP ain't going to do it, especially on Caribbean cruises. No more pub lunches for me.:(