Why cruise ships are so often struck with Norovirus

[BruceMuzz]

We could take your theory a step further.

 

The USA is the source of Norwalk Virus. It was discovered in Norwalk Ohio, USA.

Far more Americans have Norwalk every year than any other country.

Visiting the USA substantially increases my chances of getting it.

 

If I visit America and get NLV, shouldn't the US Government give me a financial break on my hotel, medical costs, and air tickets?

[navybankerteacher]

There is only one flaw in your theory.

Most major cruise lines DO allow passengers to board and sail if they are having NLV symptoms. They are isolated for about 48 - 72 hours (depending on symptoms) and then finish their cruise.

The CDC estimates that approximately 60 passengers with NLV board EVERY cruise departing a US port. It is not the Black Plague. It is a simple virus - much like a cold or the flu.

 

Thank you for injecting a bit of sanity into this thread. If cruise lines do, in fact, permit passengers showing symptoms to board (and then be quarantined until no longer infectious) the question of people being incentivized to lie to get on board becomes moot. They might not like being quarantined, but they probably would not feel much like doing anything else with their first couple of days anyway.

[cb at sea]

Ships HAVE to report illnesses....schools, churches, hotels, etc... do not.

 

When ships are reported to have Noro aboard, it's because it's EVERYWHERE....the other places simply don't have to report it

 

My brother just got over a bout....no kids, no cruise, ......probably picked it up at the grocery store...who knows? It's everywhere!

[sparks1093]

There is only one flaw in your theory.

Most major cruise lines DO allow passengers to board and sail if they are having NLV symptoms. They are isolated for about 48 - 72 hours (depending on symptoms) and then finish their cruise.

The CDC estimates that approximately 60 passengers with NLV board EVERY cruise departing a US port. It is not the Black Plague. It is a simple virus - much like a cold or the flu.

 

As always, thanks for the inside scoop.

[Hlitner]

There is only one flaw in your theory.

Most major cruise lines DO allow passengers to board and sail if they are having NLV symptoms. They are isolated for about 48 - 72 hours (depending on symptoms) and then finish their cruise.

The CDC estimates that approximately 60 passengers with NLV board EVERY cruise departing a US port. It is not the Black Plague. It is a simple virus - much like a cold or the flu.

 

Bruce, One flaw in the short health forms, given to passengers at embarkation, is that it does not indicate what you say. So most passengers, even if ill, will lie on the forms since they figure that telling the truth would deny them boarding. If the forms had a statement that said that "most ill passengers would be allowed to board, but receive appropriate treatment" your employer and other lines might get a little more honesty.

 

Many folks fear the unknown, and admitting (on those forms) to being ill plunges folks into the unknown :)

 

Hank

[boogs]

Bruce, One flaw in the short health forms, given to passengers at embarkation, is that it does not indicate what you say. So most passengers, even if ill, will lie on the forms since they figure that telling the truth would deny them boarding. If the forms had a statement that said that "most ill passengers would be allowed to board, but receive appropriate treatment" your employer and other lines might get a little more honesty.

 

Many folks fear the unknown, and admitting (on those forms) to being ill plunges folks into the unknown :)

 

Hank

 

Good point. Even an honest person would think twice about admitting something that might at the very last minute prevent them from enjoying a long anticipated and expensive vacation they may have spent weeks preparing for and hours traveling to.

Edited February 16, 2014 by boogs

[FawnRiver]

Norovirus is the second most common virus on the planet. If everyone, passengers and crew, consistently took steps to protect themselves, you'd never have an outbreak worth the hype the media likes to come up with in this day and age.

 

Its a risk I'm willing to accept.

Edited February 17, 2014 by FawnRiver
additional comment

[CPT Trips]

You are neglecting the amount of money pax have paid to get to the port and return home. Then there is the vacation days that the pax worked out with their employers and the difficulty in rescheduling that very valuable vacation time. Some cannot reschedule that time anytime in the near future due to what they do (teachers come to mind along with others).

 

For the cruise lines to allow a pax to reschedule their cruise is only the tip of the iceberg so to speak.

 

It was pretty much the tip of the iceberg that did in the Titanic . . .

 

Ships HAVE to report illnesses....schools, churches, hotels, etc... do not.

 

When ships are reported to have Noro aboard, it's because it's EVERYWHERE....the other places simply don't have to report it

 

My brother just got over a bout....no kids, no cruise, ......probably picked it up at the grocery store...who knows? It's everywhere!

 

While cruise ships are required to report all GI disease outbreaks, all the data are not posted on CDC websites. The figures commonly bantered about only tho above the posting threshold, 3%.

 

State health departments do, in fact, require reporting of GI disease outbreaks. That's how we know how many cases there are.

Edited February 17, 2014 by CPT Trips

[CPT Trips]

To add to that, following is an excerpt from a post I made from (yet) another thread on this subject today on this board as a reality check to noro and cruising:

 

There are 20 million annual reported noro cases in the US based out of a population of 315 million - or about 1 in 15 people.

 

Per CLIA (Cruise Lines International Association), there are over 21 million global cruisers annually. The total reported and confirmed outbreaks of noro on cruise ships in 2013 was 1,238 cases - or about 6 one thousandths of 1 % of the cruising population!

 

In other words an extremely low % risk on board any given ship compared to the total US cases occurring annually.

 

With those odds, I'd much prefer to take my chances cruising.

 

What you present is totally inaccurate and an invalid comparison. The typical cruise is how long? A week? Your figuring doesn't adjust for this. Also, only outbreaks above 3% of pax are posted by CDC, so your figuring is not based on total cases.

[Hlitner]

What you present is totally inaccurate and an invalid comparison. The typical cruise is how long? A week? Your figuring doesn't adjust for this. Also, only outbreaks above 3% of pax are posted by CDC, so your figuring is not based on total cases.

 

Hmmm. Ok, we think you win. We suggest you stay home and never take another cruise for the rest of your life. Then you no longer have to be concerned with the statistics :). As to DW and myself, well we must be the exception to the rule because we have spent over 3 1/2 years on cruise ships, have never had Noro on a cruise (had it on land) and do not even know anyone who has ever had Noro on a ship. We intend to continue pressing our luck and cruising at least 70 days a year.

 

Hank

[leaveitallbehind]

What you present is totally inaccurate and an invalid comparison. The typical cruise is how long? A week? Your figuring doesn't adjust for this. Also, only outbreaks above 3% of pax are posted by CDC, so your figuring is not based on total cases.

 

Well while you may be adding your own interpretation to the date, you cannot challenge my statement as none of this is my "figuring", data, or calculations - it is information provided by the source I cited. Your interpretation is just that - yours.

 

But regardless of whatever spin you want to put on it, the relative number of outbreaks on board ship is very low to the total cruising population.

 

Here is the link to that information. Perhaps you should contact them with your argument:

 

http://www.cruising.org/regulatory/issues-facts/public-health-medical-capabilities/norovirus

[Markanddonna]

All happening on land in NC: My daughter and her husband infected an entire family group with the "stomach virus". They got it because they are teachers and it was going around like wildfire at school. So the contamination rate was 100% on land far from any cruise ship. This sort of experience puts norovirus in perspective.

[A2Mich]

I would also venture to guess that cruise ship outbreaks are more concentrated per se. If kids get sick at school, they go home, feel better in a day or two, come back, and it's not a huge issue. On a ship, a passenger is in a contained environment. A handful of ill people get onboard, and being a contained environment, it doesn't take long to spread as all of the potential victims are in relatively close proximity for days at a time. At work, if you don't feel well, you go home until you do, potentially reducing or eliminating the risk of contamination.

 

I would also guess that another reason is simply due to the large numbers of people on these ships. "Back in the day," most cruise ships carried a few hundred passengers, say 500-800 pax plus a few hundred crew. Today's cruise ships carry more staff alone than the entire complement aboard older ships. Take the RCI Oasis class ships--these ships have between 7000-8000 souls aboard during a full occupancy cruise. Just based on odds alone, the chances of contracting an illness of some sort will be greater than with a group of 1000 people (assuming a similar mix of people in average health, etc - all things being equal).

[BruceMuzz]

What you present is totally inaccurate and an invalid comparison. The typical cruise is how long? A week? Your figuring doesn't adjust for this. Also, only outbreaks above 3% of pax are posted by CDC, so your figuring is not based on total cases.

 

You also need to work on your facts.

CDC requires us to report even a single case of suspected NLV on our ships. But a special outbreak report must be submitted whenever the total number of affected pax AND CREW exceeds 2% - not 3% of total people onboard. The CDC does not post every single reported case, but their yearly totals include EVERY recorded case on EVERY ship. These cases are confirmed by twice yearly surprise audits on our ships.

 

So how many people on land get sick from what they call the "Stomach flu" or the "3-day Flu" or the "Winter Vomiting Illness", and telephone the local health department to report their illness? I seriously doubt that even 50% of people do this. Most just stay at home for 3 or more days, recover, and go back to their normal lives. There is no auditing system in place on land, and the majority of real cases there go unreported and uncounted.

[A2Mich]

 

So how many people on land get sick from what they call the "Stomach flu" or the "3-day Flu" or the "Winter Vomiting Illness", and telephone the local health department to report their illness? I seriously doubt that even 50% of people do this. Most just stay at home for 3 or more days, recover, and go back to their normal lives. There is no auditing system in place on land, and the majority of real cases there go unreported and uncounted.

 

That's what I was trying to explain.....

[BruceMuzz]

Bruce, One flaw in the short health forms, given to passengers at embarkation, is that it does not indicate what you say. So most passengers, even if ill, will lie on the forms since they figure that telling the truth would deny them boarding. If the forms had a statement that said that "most ill passengers would be allowed to board, but receive appropriate treatment" your employer and other lines might get a little more honesty.

 

Many folks fear the unknown, and admitting (on those forms) to being ill plunges folks into the unknown :)

 

Hank

 

Hank,

 

Excellent point.

That form is designed and mandated by US Public Health.

Getting them to change it - even in the slightest - would require an act of Congress, or something similar.

Good luck on that one.

[spunkyhungry]

I'm a teacher, and we've had Norovirus outbreaks at school since December. In fact, I just got it! Yesterday was miserable, but I feel a lot better today. It sucks to get it on vacation, but at least the worst is usually over within 1-2 days.

Edited February 18, 2014 by spunkyhungry

[SargassoPirate]

So the bottom line is that people who get Noro probably have themselves to blame: they may not have washed their hands as often as they could have, and they have touched their hands to their faces after touching contaminated surfaces. Sure: they did not do it intentionally, but by failing to take precautions they significantly increased their risk.

 

BINGO! I grew up in the pre-vaccine days of polio. We were taught to wash our hands after touching anything in public and before we touched anything that was then going into our mouths.

 

Another thing to be watchful for is any food handler wearing plastic or rubber gloves. The only good those gloves do, for the most part, is keep that persons hands clean and put on a show for the general public. The gloves do little or nothing to protect you. I have observed food handlers and servers wearing plastic gloves scratch their nose, scratch their @ss, use their cellphone, scratch their head, and touch all sorts of surfaces and then touch food. :eek:

 

Also, when dining out and/or on a cruise ship, be aware of every surface you touch after washing your hands before eating . Did you touch a handrail on the way down the stairs, shake hands with the head waiter on the way in, grab ahold of the bottom of your chair to pull it in, handle the menu, or maybe the serving tongs at the buffet? Carry a little bottle of hand sanitizer with you and use it before you reach for that yummy dinner roll.:cool: