Now is the time to be concerned...

[seaofwonder]

I agree with you and that is why I posted that I'm not happy about supporting Putin but did not say that we were cancelling or not going ashore. We have been to St. Petersburg previously and really enjoyed it. We go to many countries (including Cuba) where the governments do not treat their people well. IMO, it is a good thing that tourists can help the people and also show them kindness, lots of smiles and hopefully purchase something from them that will give them a little help financially.:)

 

 

Well said....I had initially interpreted as you were thinking of canceling. Sorry about my response :)

 

 

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[TLCOhio]

Most interesting Terry, you not only give great advice and take the most fabulous pictures but you're also a fund of information! I've also heard about all Putin did for St Petersburg and we have to give him credit for that, much as we may disagree with his politics.

 

jamessemaj: TLCOhio Terry' date=' I too have admired your posts and pics. One question about St. Petersburg that is what this thread is about...[b']what would you do if you were now booked for a cruise to SPB?[/b] Would you ride it out and hope for the best or cancel for a more definite plan?

 

Appreciate so much the kind comments by the two above posters. An excellent question by jamessemaj. We can all have opinions on Putin, the current governments in Egypt or China, etc. BUT, when your personal money and plans are "on the line", what does an individual do? If I had not yet been to Russia and wanted to see it, I would probably roll the dice and pay my final money. It's a bit of a risk, but here is why that gamble might be fairly safe, maybe:

 

1. Things are calming down somewhat and I doubt that there is going to be a dire, high-risk show-down between a united Europe AND the U.S. acting in a strong, confrontational manner. It will mostly be hand-wringing, talk and posturing. Russia and Putin are not North Korea. There are smart, savvy, demanding brains on both sides. Games will be playing, but nobody is going to "go crazy"!

 

2. Because St. Petersburg is such a key part for most of these Baltics cruises, my view is that cruise lines are going to be hard-pressured to just drop or substitute those two or three days there, IF and IF, without offering customers some sort of late drop-out escape. It is not like just skipping or going to another average or so-so stop in the Carib or Med.

 

My bottom line would be that the risk for the worst-case things to happen is that there is only a 4-10% chance that bad things will happen this later Spring, Summer, early Fall. The odds are around 96% for things to happen as planned and scheduled with cruise ships visiting St. Petersburg. I would "go with it and hope for the best". That's my analysis. No guarantees, but it seems to be a reasonable risk as of today. Personally, since we did both St. Petersburg and Moscow during our three-days there in 2008, I would be a little less likely to take that small risk. But for others seeking this for the first time, the "prize" for this unique and special part of the world would be worth the gamble.

 

Does this help? Others odds-makers out there have better guesses?

 

THANKS! Enjoy! Terry in Ohio

 

For details and visuals, etc., from our July 1-16, 2010, Norway Coast/Fjords/Arctic Circle cruise experience from Copenhagen on the Silver Cloud, check out this posting. This posting is now at 135,939 views.

http://www.boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=1227923

[jomf]

Unless the problems escalate dramatically before final payment ( enough that our government declare travel unsafe) then we will pay up and go. Obviously if we cancelled (being English) we would lose all monies paid upfront, so this is an extra factor in our thoughts.

 

I am fairly confident that the problems will subside.

[hubofhockey]

This is all new ground as it's the first time Russia has made a move to reverse the independence of any former Soviet client states. It's also the first time Europe and the US (and Canada) has had to deal with this.

 

Many of us are in the middle on this one. I wouldn't book a new cruise to that included St Petersburg now, but I am in $2,700 in unrecoverable costs (prepaid airfare and hotel in Copenhagen) and that has to be a factor. In effect, my ante is in and folding is not a great option. A possibility would be to change the vacation and see if change (not cancel) flights and make it more focused on Amsterdam, Paris, and Bruges and suck up the $140 I am in for Amsterdam to Copenhagen flights and $400 for prepaid Copenhagen hotel. I would think that many of us are in similar situations.

[DipBrat]

Anyone can post here about how likely or unlikely something is. The fact is that a travel ban is on the table and some of have decisions on checks to write. Mine is $6K to Princess and due to my TA on April 15. No insurance can cover this risk either. As such, this is nothing more than gambling as if in a ship casino (something I don't do). The decision is whether to write the check or to wait for a year when hostilities aren't at this level and no travel ban is on the table.

 

It just seems too easy for people without real skin in this game to say there's nothing to worry about. :rolleyes:

 

It is not true that a travel ban is on the table or anywhere near being discussed as an option. This is one of the very last levers of diplomacy.

 

Let’s be realistic about the risks. Even a full invasion (very unlikely but certainly possible) of the rest of Ukraine would most likely not lead to a complete visa ban. There are numerous examples of continued flow of tourists to countries that have vastly different views on wars. Some examples: The US invasion of Iraq was opposed by many countries but neither side banned tourists, Serbian’s were still issued visas while being bombed by NATO. Even after the Moscow Olympic boycott following the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan American tourists were still able to travel to Russia.

 

Russia is probably too large for a Cuba like ban of all travel and commerce, but I agree if this did happen the cruise lines would no call on St. Petersburg. In this case the ports would be replaced.

 

So in summary, and to put it into perspective, if something approaching World War 3 starts (which is what a full invasion would be) you are looking at worst case missing the best port of your trip.

[buggins0402]

It is not true that a travel ban is on the table or anywhere near being discussed as an option. This is one of the very last levers of diplomacy.

 

Let’s be realistic about the risks. Even a full invasion (very unlikely but certainly possible) of the rest of Ukraine would most likely not lead to a complete visa ban. There are numerous examples of continued flow of tourists to countries that have vastly different views on wars. Some examples: The US invasion of Iraq was opposed by many countries but neither side banned tourists, Serbian’s were still issued visas while being bombed by NATO. Even after the Moscow Olympic boycott following the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan American tourists were still able to travel to Russia.

 

Russia is probably too large for a Cuba like ban of all travel and commerce, but I agree if this did happen the cruise lines would no call on St. Petersburg. In this case the ports would be replaced.

 

So in summary, and to put it into perspective, if something approaching World War 3 starts (which is what a full invasion would be) you are looking at worst case missing the best port of your trip.

 

Well said DipBrat! +1

[seaofwonder]

Well, if impending World War III happened, I would say that a cruise is the last thing anyone is worrying about!

 

 

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[oceanlovinmama]

My cruise departs Harwich on 5/26 and my final payment is due tomorrow! There were 6 in our party and it is now just the 2 of us. We are going to take a chance and roll with it! Mainly because we would forfeit our hotel that is already paid for 2 nights in London and it would cost us $300 to put the miles back in our bank. Let's face it. No one knows what tomorrow will bring. Even if it doesn't involve a political unrest, it could mean illness or no job security that would prevent us from travelling here. The plans are already on the table so I'm taking the chance. In 2010, the Captain came within hours of cancelling our stop in Athens due to unrest. We stopped but the very next day the riots resumed and we learned that other ships did not stop. We were also very lucky to visit Egypt on that trip, something I wouldn't even consider today! I'm hoping my luck follows me on this trip. At the very least, we miss SPB but visit some other beautiful countries.

[TLCOhio]

My cruise departs Harwich on 5/26 and my final payment is due tomorrow! Let's face it. No one knows what tomorrow will bring. Even if it doesn't involve a political unrest, it could mean illness or no job security that would prevent us from travelling here. The plans are already on the table so I'm taking the chance. In 2010, the Captain came within hours of cancelling our stop in Athens due to unrest. We stopped but the very next day the riots resumed and we learned that other ships did not stop. We were also very lucky to visit Egypt on that trip, something I wouldn't even consider today! I'm hoping my luck follows me on this trip. At the very least, we miss SPB but visit some other beautiful countries.

 

Good luck to our Ohio neighbor in Cincinnati. Yes, Athens and Egypt are good examples for things that have had questions and uncertainty, but still worked out. My guess is still that things will work for this year in St. Petersburg.

 

THANKS! Enjoy! Terry in Ohio

 

Did a June 7-19, 2011, Celebrity Solstice cruise from Barcelona that had stops in Villefranche, ports near Pisa and Rome, Naples, Kotor, Venice and Dubrovnik. Enjoyed great weather and a wonderful trip. Dozens of nice visuals with key highlights, tips, comments, etc., on these postings. We are now at 164,097 views for this live/blog re-cap on our first sailing with Celebrity and much on wonderful Barcelona. Check these postings and added info at:

http://www.boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=1426474

[hubofhockey]

It is not true that a travel ban is on the table or anywhere near being discussed as an option. This is one of the very last levers of diplomacy.

 

Let’s be realistic about the risks. Even a full invasion (very unlikely but certainly possible) of the rest of Ukraine would most likely not lead to a complete visa ban. There are numerous examples of continued flow of tourists to countries that have vastly different views on wars. Some examples: The US invasion of Iraq was opposed by many countries but neither side banned tourists, Serbian’s were still issued visas while being bombed by NATO. Even after the Moscow Olympic boycott following the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan American tourists were still able to travel to Russia.

 

Russia is probably too large for a Cuba like ban of all travel and commerce, but I agree if this did happen the cruise lines would no call on St. Petersburg. In this case the ports would be replaced.

 

So in summary, and to put it into perspective, if something approaching World War 3 starts (which is what a full invasion would be) you are looking at worst case missing the best port of your trip.

 

From euronews.com four hours ago.

 

The European leaders announced today that they will implement three step sanctions against Russia depending on its attitude on Ukraine. The President of the European Union Council, Herman Van Rompuy announced that the EU will suspend, in a first phase, the visa talks with Moscow, suspending also its attendance to the G8 Summit in Sochi. Rompuy also asked Russian forces to retreat immediately from Ukraine, calling scheduled Crimean referendum on autonomy as “illegal”.

 

EU’s next step sanctions could include travel bans and freeze of Russian assets, warned Rompuy that urged Moscow to sit at the negotiations table with Ukrainians.

 

The United States has said it is ready to impose sanctions such as visa bans, asset freezes on individual Russian officials and restrictions on business ties within days rather than weeks.

 

Crimea’s parliament voted to join Russia on Thursday and its Moscow-backed government set a referendum within 10 days on the decision in a dramatic escalation of the crisis over the Ukrainian Black Sea peninsula.

Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov refused to meet his new Ukrainian counterpart or to launch a “contact group” to seek a solution to the crisis at talks in Paris on Wednesday despite arm-twisting by U.S. Secretary of State John Kerry and European colleagues. The two men met again in Rome on Thursday without an agreement on sight, according Lavrov.

 

Maybe none of this is viewed by folks here as "real" or "on the table". Just wondering if you have $6K in final payment that you have to make in about five weeks. Many of us face this and also read these things above and can't help but feel a little nervous. I'd say the chance are much better than not that St Petersburg will be open for US citizens this summer. I'm just not willing to bet the house on it.

[GradySRQ]

As a previous poster mentioned. .. If i cancel and there is no travel ban I would feel worse than not canceling and off chance of not seeing SP

 

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[Reggiefan]

Several issues:

 

1. Will there be a formal travel ban that will preclude SPB as a port of call for the 2014 Baltic cruises?

 

2. Even if SPB remains as a port of call, will the rising tensions between nations, especially between the US and Russia, result in a visit to SPB being a noticeably less than pleasant, even if safe, experience? The stories being currently run by the Russian media are hardly favorable to the US and perhaps several NATO countries and surely are impacting public opinion in Russia, just as news stories in the US are impacting public opinion in the US.

 

3. Are the cruise lines going to extend somewhat the deadline for making final payment for Baltic or Black Sea cruises?

 

4. Are the cruise lines going to give some notice of what itinerary changes will be made in the event SPB is removed from the itinerary?

 

5. Are the cruise lines going to allow for a cancellation option or discount if, so many days before the cruise, SPB is removed from the itinerary?

 

I have another five weeks before final payment, and I think we will have some idea in the next 30 days of the status of SPB as a Baltic cruise port of call this year. Some Baltic cruises are only two months or so from sailing.

 

However, as I have stated previously, a Baltic cruise without SPB is like a British Open cruises without the British Open. It is the reason that many have booked the cruise, and it is the reason that cruise lines spend two and three days in SPB.

 

Because I have used mileage points, it is not cost-prohibitive for me to cancel my flights. However, I have made special tour arrangements with others on my cruise and for that reason am reluctant to cancel.

 

But were my final payment deadline in the 10 days, I would be reluctant to go forward--unless there was some assurance from the cruise line that some advance notice would be given as to possible itinerary changes and perhaps that some future cancellation window might exist.

 

I personally do not see how Black Sea cruises can take place this year, and I personally think there is about a 15-20 percent that SPB could be removed from the Baltic Sea itineraries. I do not see a military confrontation between the NATO countries and Russia, but any sanctions will lead to responses, which will lead to further actions. If Russia proceeds with the annexation of the Crimea, there will be sanctions. If Russia goes further with sending troops into any other part ofthe Ukraine, then travel plans involving SPB become very questionable.

 

Again, I think we will have a much better idea in the next few weeks as to whether this crisis can be limited and managed. But I also hope we see some real candor from the cruise lines as to what their contingency plans are because they certainly either have those plans or are finalizing those plans.

[CI66774]

Speculation is just that. Nobody knows what's going to happen tomorrow or thirty days from now. Other parts of the world could erupt in that time period. My best advice - roll the dice and see what happens. I'm already past final payment so I'm going no matter what (unless World War III erupts, of course).

[Reggiefan]

Yep, just speculation. But it is evident that (a) Putin's moves at least in the short run are politically popular at home, and (b) Putin is willing to "throw the dice" with regard to his actions damaging the Russian economy.

 

The Crimea referendum is March 16. We can visit in two weeks and see where things stand.

[kaisatsu]

Anyone can post here about how likely or unlikely something is. The fact is that a travel ban is on the table and some of have decisions on checks to write. Mine is $6K to Princess and due to my TA on April 15. No insurance can cover this risk either. As such, this is nothing more than gambling as if in a ship casino (something I don't do). The decision is whether to write the check or to wait for a year when hostilities aren't at this level and no travel ban is on the table.

 

It just seems too easy for people without real skin in this game to say there's nothing to worry about. :rolleyes:

 

You have mentioned multiple times the financial investment that you feel you have made to visit St. Petersburg. If you were so intent on visiting St. Petersburg, I still question why you didn't spend that money on plane tickets, a hotel, and a visa? Then you could have canceled the hotel and rebooked the plane ticket, should things go awry. At most you would have been out a few hundred dollars for rebooking and visa fees.

 

I'm sorry, but I have trouble feeling sympathy for your potential "loss" of $6K when you will still be taking a cruise of the same length and visiting some beautiful and interesting countries even without St. Petersburg. You booked a cruise. You knew that ports could potentially be canceled. What if there was a freak storm that kept you from passing through the channel and docking?! If one port was your sole intention for this booking, I really think you should re-evaluate your choice of travel options.

[hubofhockey]

You have mentioned multiple times the financial investment that you feel you have made to visit St. Petersburg. If you were so intent on visiting St. Petersburg, I still question why you didn't spend that money on plane tickets, a hotel, and a visa? Then you could have canceled the hotel and rebooked the plane ticket, should things go awry. At most you would have been out a few hundred dollars for rebooking and visa fees.

 

I'm sorry, but I have trouble feeling sympathy for your potential "loss" of $6K when you will still be taking a cruise of the same length and visiting some beautiful and interesting countries even without St. Petersburg. You booked a cruise. You knew that ports could potentially be canceled. What if there was a freak storm that kept you from passing through the channel and docking?! If one port was your sole intention for this booking, I really think you should re-evaluate your choice of travel options.

 

I am not asking for your sympathy. I don't go to message boards looking for that. As for this vacation, many have mentioned that they look at the vacation in total, with this being the most important part. I don't understand what you don't understand about that and I don't care. You are argumentative and nobody mentioned here that St Petersburg was the sole reason for the cruise. I should only reevaluate responding to posts like yours. :rolleyes:

[Reggiefan]

Kaisatsu, thanks for the comments.

 

My feelings are similar in some ways to those of our Boston friend. The reason that I booked the cruise was to see several cities in the Baltic region, especially SPB. I have never considered a trip outside an organized tour or cruise to SPB because of the language, visa and other challenges. Outside of a cruise, I probably will never see SPB. And my wife and I like the idea of a cruise because it is a good compromise for us--I like the idea of seeing so much and she likes the idea of not changing hotels and jumping off and on trains.

 

Issues on this thread have been raised not to obtain sympathy, but to get as much information as possible to make an informed decision about a major purchase. A 10-day Baltic cruise confined to the Baltic region without SPB is for most not nearly as attractive, and does not offer the same value, as a 10-day Baltic cruise with substantial time in SPB. This is the reason that you don't see many, if any, lengthy Baltic cruises without SPB as a port of call.

 

My sense is that in the summer months major weather events shutting down SPB to the cruise ships are exceedingly rare--we are not talking about cruising in the Caribbean in September. Here, we are talking about risks months ahead of the cruise that could substantially impact the trip, and we are trying as best as possible to quantify the risks and determine whether it seems wise from a consumer standpoint to go forward.

[The_Big_M]

A 10-day Baltic cruise confined to the Baltic region without SPB is for most not nearly as attractive, and does not offer the same value, as a 10-day Baltic cruise with substantial time in SPB. This is the reason that you don't see many, if any, lengthy Baltic cruises without SPB as a port of call.

 

While I think it's a worthwhile visit, and perhaps because it makes Russia more accessible than it otherwise would be, I can understand why it's included on Baltic itineraries. But then the other destinations e.g. Tallinn, Helsinki are also included on most if not all Baltic itineraries too.

 

Perhaps it was overhyped, but I didn't see it as a unique standout over the other destinations in the region. It actually felt much more European than real Russian, and especially compared to other cities in the ex-soviet Union.

 

That's not to say it should be excluded or is not worthwhile, but I don't see that not visiting it makes the trip substantially less attractive than not visiting e.g. Helsinki or other destinations. If you get under the hood of each, they all have attractive, worthwhile features.

[jamessemaj]

In regard to the last few comments, I must say, St. Petersburg is the jewel of the Baltic and no other place, all nice places, can come even close. If not for the visa hassles, yes, a land visit would be best and for a longer time. But a cruise is the most hassle free way to see it. I wish everybody who is booked and worrying over St. Petersburg the best, and hope you don't miss it.

[4774Papa]

While I think it's a worthwhile visit, and perhaps because it makes Russia more accessible than it otherwise would be, I can understand why it's included on Baltic itineraries. But then the other destinations e.g. Tallinn, Helsinki are also included on most if not all Baltic itineraries too.

 

Perhaps it was overhyped, but I didn't see it as a unique standout over the other destinations in the region. It actually felt much more European than real Russian, and especially compared to other cities in the ex-soviet Union.

 

That's not to say it should be excluded or is not worthwhile, but I don't see that not visiting it makes the trip substantially less attractive than not visiting e.g. Helsinki or other destinations. If you get under the hood of each, they all have attractive, worthwhile features.

We did a Vantage tour of Kiev, Russia and the Baltics including a river cruise. We found STP to be much more European than Moscow and the cities and towns along the river cruise.

[firststeps]

I am getting nervous that our cruise line may change our itinerary given what is going on in Ukraine (Crimea). We are scheduled to arrive in St Pete on Aug 10 for three days. Anyone have any experience with these situations? Just wondering...

 

Thanks!

[CruiserBruce]

Just like this large thread just a few threads down the board?

 

http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=1999665

 

If it isn't safe, the cruise lines won't stop there. It has happened a few times in various locations- Tunis, Egypt, Israel, to name a few.

[kaisatsu]

I guess some of us are just a bit sensitive about the fact that so many people are implying that a cruise would be ruined somehow without St.Petersburg. Many of us here on the board live in other countries and ports on the Baltic and North Seas and have spent a significant amount of time offering advice and assistance to cruisers visiting our home cities. It stings a bit to hear that so many people don't really care about these ports and really only think of them as some kind of side tour on a trip to SPB.

[SparkleBee]

my goodness, that is quite untrue! if people only cared about St.P then they could just visit there. I am excited about every single port of call on my upcoming Baltic cruise!

[seaofwonder]

I guess some of us are just a bit sensitive about the fact that so many people are implying that a cruise would be ruined somehow without St.Petersburg. Many of us here on the board live in other countries and ports on the Baltic and North Seas and have spent a significant amount of time offering advice and assistance to cruisers visiting our home cities. It stings a bit to hear that so many people don't really care about these ports and really only think of them as some kind of side tour on a trip to SPB.

 

 

Well, I don't think it is that people don't care about the other countries....but the main draw is Russia.

 

For me, it was the entire region...with Russia being the bonus that made it worth paying the premium.

 

I am really excited to be visiting Denmark, Finland, and Estonia (have already visited Sweden). Looking forward to seeing the architecture and culture in an area of the world I haven't really spent time in before.

 

 

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