chengkp75 riddle me this

[klfrodo]

Since chengkp75 is our resident all things ship related, I'm curious.

 

Carnival Breeze, for example, has a spot near the cabin door where the passenger places a key card (or some other card) that will turn on power to the cabin. Turns the AC on, allows you to turn on the lights, etc. When you leave the cabin, you take your key card with you and everything shuts down.

 

Now, I suppose that land based hotels like MGM Grand in Las Vegas could save a million a year in energy bills by doing this.

 

What does a cruise ship save by having this type of arrangement?

[mapsmith]

I am not chengkp, but I do know that many hotels are now installing these card switches. Supposedly, also, when the card is in the light switch (in land based hotels) then the electronic cards do not work in the door, adding an additional layer of security.

[GottaKnowWhen]

I am not chengkp, but I do know that many hotels are now installing these card switches. Supposedly, also, when the card is in the light switch (in land based hotels) then the electronic cards do not work in the door, adding an additional layer of security.

 

 

I first saw this use of key cards for room electrical control in Singapore at least 10 years ago. But power is cheap here in the U.S., and everybody is obsessed with short-term financials so not that much pressure for the long-term investment needed.

[GottaKnowWhen]

...What does a cruise ship save by having this type of arrangement?

 

 

They save the cost of the fuel used to run their genators.

[Essiesmom]

We had this technology in the Nusa Dua Beach Hotel in Bali in 1988. On MSC Divina, a card in the 'power' slot turns on a light on the upper left of the door in the corridor, telling the cabin steward that there is someone in the cabin. Leaving a card in the slot may mean your cabin doesn't get cleaned. EM

[sail7seas]

Since chengkp75 is our resident all things ship related, I'm curious.

 

Carnival Breeze, for example, has a spot near the cabin door where the passenger places a key card (or some other card) that will turn on power to the cabin. Turns the AC on, allows you to turn on the lights, etc. When you leave the cabin, you take your key card with you and everything shuts down.

 

Now, I suppose that land based hotels like MGM Grand in Las Vegas could save a million a year in energy bills by doing this.

 

What does a cruise ship save by having this type of arrangement?

 

We had card/power system in some European Hotels as many as 25 years ago. :)

 

BTW, any credit card size/shape card works. You do not have to use your key card. Last time on HAL ship that has that system, I used a grocery store card and it worked fine.

 

[chengkp75]

Since chengkp75 is our resident all things ship related, I'm curious.

 

Carnival Breeze, for example, has a spot near the cabin door where the passenger places a key card (or some other card) that will turn on power to the cabin. Turns the AC on, allows you to turn on the lights, etc. When you leave the cabin, you take your key card with you and everything shuts down.

 

Now, I suppose that land based hotels like MGM Grand in Las Vegas could save a million a year in energy bills by doing this.

 

What does a cruise ship save by having this type of arrangement?

 

Just like the hotel in Vegas, it is an attempt to save money. Instead of paying the electrical utility for the power, the ship pays the fuel bill. The less lights are on, and the higher the thermostats are set in the cabins, the less fuel the generator burns. It really doesn't turn the A/C off, it just acts like a set-back thermostat, and raises the setpoint by 10 degrees or so. There really wouldn't be a savings if it shut off completely, as the energy to bring the cabin back down after being off all day while you are ashore would offset any savings from having it off.

 

I say it is an "attempt" since as nearly everyone here on CC knows, you can leave a library card in the slot and have the power on when you are not there. I know some ships have instructed the cabin stewards to remove the cards when found in cabins where the occupants are out, but this is not 100% the case.

 

I know that changing from fluorescent lights to LED lights throughout the ship can save up to 10% of a ship's fuel bill each year. When I was at NCL, a vendor came to us and proposed that we change over. He would give us the equipment, and pay for their people to install it, so we didn't have to come up with any money up front. What they wanted was 10% of the difference in fuel cost over the next 5 years. Unfortunately, at that time, NCL was focusing on major losses in the Hawaiian operation and didn't take them up on it, but I believe they have been upgrading the fleet since. The key card switch can save, if everyone did it, about the same amount. I think that if the lines don't see the savings long term, they will look at revising the system to only accept key cards keyed to that cabin. The other problem that they didn't look at was to put the outlets in the cabin on a separate circuit to allow charging devices while the cabin is empty.

[sparks1093]

Just like the hotel in Vegas, it is an attempt to save money. Instead of paying the electrical utility for the power, the ship pays the fuel bill. The less lights are on, and the higher the thermostats are set in the cabins, the less fuel the generator burns. It really doesn't turn the A/C off, it just acts like a set-back thermostat, and raises the setpoint by 10 degrees or so. There really wouldn't be a savings if it shut off completely, as the energy to bring the cabin back down after being off all day while you are ashore would offset any savings from having it off.

 

I say it is an "attempt" since as nearly everyone here on CC knows, you can leave a library card in the slot and have the power on when you are not there. I know some ships have instructed the cabin stewards to remove the cards when found in cabins where the occupants are out, but this is not 100% the case.

 

I know that changing from fluorescent lights to LED lights throughout the ship can save up to 10% of a ship's fuel bill each year. When I was at NCL, a vendor came to us and proposed that we change over. He would give us the equipment, and pay for their people to install it, so we didn't have to come up with any money up front. What they wanted was 10% of the difference in fuel cost over the next 5 years. Unfortunately, at that time, NCL was focusing on major losses in the Hawaiian operation and didn't take them up on it, but I believe they have been upgrading the fleet since. The key card switch can save, if everyone did it, about the same amount. I think that if the lines don't see the savings long term, they will look at revising the system to only accept key cards keyed to that cabin. The other problem that they didn't look at was to put the outlets in the cabin on a separate circuit to allow charging devices while the cabin is empty.

 

10% of a ship's fuel bill is big money, multiplied by the number of ship's in the fleet especially so (under statement of the year?). I can see why that company would be willing to take 10% of the savings. With the number of people circumventing the key card system I suspect it won't be long before only the cabin key may be used.

Edited June 22, 2015 by sparks1093

[temple1]

10% of a ship's fuel bill is big money, multiplied by the number of ship's in the fleet especially so (under statement of the year?). I can see why that company would be willing to take 10% of the savings. With the number of people circumventing the key card system I suspect it won't be long before only the cabin key may be used.

 

Sad isn't it? Why do we have such a me first mentality? They try to make it easy and a number of jerks have to ruin it for the rest. But they will be the first to complain if they make it key card only or raise rates. :(

[John Bull]

As other posts, even though the ship generates its own power, the air-con and other cabin facilities don't come "free" any more than they do in a car, though I'm very dubious that requiring a card in the cabin - even if not circumvented using other cards - gives as much as a 10% saving. :confused:

10% of total cost of ship's power, chehgkp, or just 10% of the power consumed by cabins?

 

My experience is that having a card in the slot doesn't prevent the door being opened with the other door key - as well as any safety implications, 'er-indoors wouldn't appreciate having to get out of bed when I bring back her morning cuppa ;)

 

When the system is used in hotels, my experience has been that it does turn off all power - aircon, charging outlets, fridge, the lot. But that's not to say that the same applies on ships or in all hotels.

 

My experience is that opening balcony doors for more than a few seconds does turn off the air-con. Quite right too, using ships' air-con is a pretty expensive way of countering global warming :D

 

JB :)

[sparks1093]

Sad isn't it? Why do we have such a me first mentality? They try to make it easy and a number of jerks have to ruin it for the rest. But they will be the first to complain if they make it key card only or raise rates. :(

 

I suspect that many that do this do it so they can charge their electronics while they are out and don't even think about the AC but I'm sure some want to make sure they come back to an ice cold room.

[Zach1213]

I am not chengkp, but I do know that many hotels are now installing these card switches. Supposedly, also, when the card is in the light switch (in land based hotels) then the electronic cards do not work in the door, adding an additional layer of security.

 

This type of setup is very, very common outside the US/Canada. I travel for a living and see it in MOST of the hotels I stay at outside of North America. It's very odd not to see it.

[maryann ns]

And the more modern systems do not allow you to use any card but the proper key card.

Edited June 22, 2015 by maryann ns

[spookwife]

And the more modern systems do not allow you to use any card but the proper key card.

 

so what is to prevent people from requesting an extra card to leave in there? or like us, DH and I, who get 2 cards automatically but we seldom leave the room separately. I could easily leave mine in the slot and use his to get in and out of the room.

 

(FTR, we are the type of people who turn the temp control UP after the cabin steward leaves it at frigid)

[SantaFeFan]

I am not chengkp, but I do know that many hotels are now installing these card switches. Supposedly, also, when the card is in the light switch (in land based hotels) then the electronic cards do not work in the door, adding an additional layer of security.

 

so what is to prevent people from requesting an extra card to leave in there? or like us, DH and I, who get 2 cards automatically but we seldom leave the room separately. I could easily leave mine in the slot and use his to get in and out of the room.

 

(FTR, we are the type of people who turn the temp control UP after the cabin steward leaves it at frigid)

 

 

Actually, a second card will still work. Otherwise, when one person is in the room sleeping - with their card in the slot - another person sharing that room would not be able to enter without waking the sleeping occupant.

Edited June 22, 2015 by SantaFeFan

[SantaFeFan]

We had card/power system in some European Hotels as many as 25 years ago. :)

 

I remember that far back as well. In many hotels our room key would be attached to a large flat "paddle" which would be too large to carry in our pockets when leaving the hotel, requiring us to turn in our room key every time we left the hotel. We'd place the key's paddle in a slot to turn the power on.

Edited June 22, 2015 by SantaFeFan

[chengkp75]

As other posts, even though the ship generates its own power, the air-con and other cabin facilities don't come "free" any more than they do in a car, though I'm very dubious that requiring a card in the cabin - even if not circumvented using other cards - gives as much as a 10% saving. :confused:

10% of total cost of ship's power, chehgkp, or just 10% of the power consumed by cabins?

 

My experience is that having a card in the slot doesn't prevent the door being opened with the other door key - as well as any safety implications, 'er-indoors wouldn't appreciate having to get out of bed when I bring back her morning cuppa ;)

 

When the system is used in hotels, my experience has been that it does turn off all power - aircon, charging outlets, fridge, the lot. But that's not to say that the same applies on ships or in all hotels.

 

My experience is that opening balcony doors for more than a few seconds does turn off the air-con. Quite right too, using ships' air-con is a pretty expensive way of countering global warming :D

 

JB :)

 

It would all depend on the type of lights used. Even though flourescents are more efficient than incandescent bulbs, LEDs are even more efficient. Flourescents use about 25% of the power a comparable incandescent lamp uses, and LEDs use about 50-60% of the power of a comparable flourescent.

 

So, the lighting savings of turning off LEDs over flourescents is still considerable. Lighting probably counts for as much as 20% of the one generator that is running to provide hotel power. So, while lighting savings would not be 10% of total fuel cost (I should have been clearer), it will amount about 10% of total hotel load, not just cabin power. While there is a vast amount of power used in propulsion, this is not a constant load, nor even present for maybe 40% of the cruise.

 

The A/C load accounts for about 40% of the hotel power, for a small/medium ship around 5-6 Megawatts, so turning the thermostats back a few degrees saves a tremendous amount of power.

 

Opening the balcony door does shut off the recirculation A/C unit, that accounts for 80% of your cabin cooling. It does not shut off the supply of fresh air (which is cooled in large central coolers), nor the exhaust air from the bath. These supply air systems are of the "high pressure" type to minimize duct size, and so when the supply air has a "free escape route" to the outside, like an open balcony door, this will take the air away from nearby cabins, and produce the "wind tunnel" whistle you will hear when a few cabins near each other have their doors open.

[sloopsailor]

It would all depend on the type of lights used. Even though flourescents are more efficient than incandescent bulbs, LEDs are even more efficient. Flourescents use about 25% of the power a comparable incandescent lamp uses, and LEDs use about 50-60% of the power of a comparable flourescent.

 

So, the lighting savings of turning off LEDs over flourescents is still considerable. Lighting probably counts for as much as 20% of the one generator that is running to provide hotel power. So, while lighting savings would not be 10% of total fuel cost (I should have been clearer), it will amount about 10% of total hotel load, not just cabin power. While there is a vast amount of power used in propulsion, this is not a constant load, nor even present for maybe 40% of the cruise.

 

The A/C load accounts for about 40% of the hotel power, for a small/medium ship around 5-6 Megawatts, so turning the thermostats back a few degrees saves a tremendous amount of power.

 

Opening the balcony door does shut off the recirculation A/C unit, that accounts for 80% of your cabin cooling. It does not shut off the supply of fresh air (which is cooled in large central coolers), nor the exhaust air from the bath. These supply air systems are of the "high pressure" type to minimize duct size, and so when the supply air has a "free escape route" to the outside, like an open balcony door, this will take the air away from nearby cabins, and produce the "wind tunnel" whistle you will hear when a few cabins near each other have their doors open.

 

chengkp75, I always find your explanations of the inner workings of a cruise ship to be very interesting. Thank you for taking the time to describe how these things work. Those of us with an interest in mechanical objects appreciate the information.

Edited June 22, 2015 by sloopsailor

[dsrdsrdsr]

Sad isn't it? Why do we have such a me first mentality? They try to make it easy and a number of jerks have to ruin it for the rest. But they will be the first to complain if they make it key card only or raise rates. :(

 

Overreaction, or have you not thought it through? I charge certain electrical devices in the cabin, and it doesn't work if the cabin power is turned off. Do you think I'm a jerk? If it helps, I do turn off the lights.

[John Bull]

chengkp75, I always find your explanations of the inner workings of a cruise ship to be very interesting. Thank you for taking the time to describe how these things work. Those of us with an interest in mechanical objects appreciate the information.

 

My thanks too :)

 

JB :)

Edited June 23, 2015 by John Bull

[Threedrones]

Temple1, bringing your own Peanut M&M's on board? Isn't that a "me first attitude" type of thing? LOL

[cruising cockroach]

To defeat the credit-card-in-slot trick, some proprietors are using motion-sensing detectors which are annoying if one is asleep. Metallic balloons are said to defeat this counter-counter measure.