Group cruise taking over Crow's Nest - advice?

[mef_57]

Let me apologize for a post that I now realize could be interpreted in a couple of different ways.

 

I sent an email to the coordinator for the organization making making the booking, not to a "group coordinator" with HAL. I was able to find this person's name and email address on the organizations webpage. I a similar thread some time ago, someone posted that HAL is unwilling to provide detailed information in advance, which is why I chose to try approaching the group instead. You might want to give that a try.

Thanks for the clarification. I have actually found the tour website and see a name of the group Coordinator and will see what results I get from there.

[sherryf]

Last I checked, there are no groups on my cruise, but I have a question, just in case. If the Crow's Nest is reserved for a group, does that mean you cannot access the coffee bar? Or is that separate? On the deck plan (Westerdam) it looks like it is all one big room.

 

It seems like HAL does a lot of group cruises. On my Princess cruises, I haven't seen many big groups, at least not ones you'd really notice. There are often family groups, but not big enough to reserve entire venues. Last year we had some sort of medical group (pharmacists or something) but they were in conference rooms during the day and I never noticed any public venues reserved for them. I never would have known they were on board if I hadn't talked to some of them at dinner and such, and been told they were part of a group.

 

Looks like Westerdam has "Inspirations" groups nearly every week in July, except the week I'm going. :D

[RuthC]

They're on the Maasdam.

Thanks. I see that Maureen has pretty well covered the places in post #18. Here's some other places---

 

On the Maasdam, you can go aft on Veranda Deck, and find a great place to see and catch an expansive view. It's covered, so the "liquid sunshine" isn't as much of a factor. I have seen people bring deck chairs down from Navigation Deck where there aren't any there.

Navigation Deck has lots of space, much of it covered and some of it sheltered on the sides, from which to watch the scenery go by.

On Lido Deck there's a nice spot on the outside of the aft elevator banks. There's some support beams holding back the wind on the sides, and some roofing overhead. Unless the wind is coming from the aft, it's a sheltered spot that I love.

 

If you are closed off from the Crow's Nest, bundle up, go outside, grab a lap blanket (or three) and breathe deeply of that fresh air.

[Aquahound]

Groups having exclusive use of venues, such as the Crow's Nest does happen on HAL -- no matter what the President's office says.

 

You're darn right it happens. It happened on my Alaska cruise on Zuiderdam. A Jewish group had the Crows Nest reserved on several evenings, and during the late morning when we were approaching Juneau. To say I was peeved would be an understatement. HAL should not allow that particular venue to be reserved, especially during a scenery cruise.

 

Last I checked, there are no groups on my cruise, but I have a question, just in case. If the Crow's Nest is reserved for a group, does that mean you cannot access the coffee bar? Or is that separate? On the deck plan (Westerdam) it looks like it is all one big room.

 

In my experience, yes, you can still access the coffee bar from the starboard side entrance.

[Hlitner]

I have been on a cruise where virtually every room was taken on sea days, including the card room and/or Hudson Room. Makes it tough to find a place to play games; but that's the way it goes. Since then I have always scoured sources to see if there are groups on the sailing I've chosen that I think would interfere with my plans.

 

I can't blame the cruise line, though. Groups are a good revenue stream. That's what they're in business for.

 

You are a generous person, or a HAL lover that thinks the line can do no wrong. As for me, I not only think the group thing (allowing them to shut other cruisers out of public rooms) is outrageous and have long advocated for a cruise "bill of rights" which would inform anyone booking (or booked) on a cruise with large groups...to be informed and given the option to cancel or reschedule.

 

Cruise lines enter into a contractual relationship with cruisers (although cruise lines design their fine print cruise contract to give them any right they choose to take). Cruisers make the reasonable assumption (based on information provided by the cruise lines) that public rooms are indeed public and will generally be available to everyone. It will take nothing less then a massive Group Action (i.e. lawsuit) to finally resolve the issue. And before folks flame me...we would point out that is was just such a class action suit which finally forced cruise lines to be more honest with so-called port charges and fees.

 

Hank

[Roz]

Group bookings are the bread and butter of the travel and hospitality industries, like it or not. Twice I've been booted out of a hotel I booked ahead for a business trip because a group booked the entire hotel or close to it. The hotel did provide me a room in a nearby hotel at the same rate, and shuttled me over there. Not much I could do.

 

Roz

[OBX-Cruisers]

Even if this is the most devoted square dancing group in the country, I would be extremely surprised if they were dancing when the ship was cruising in Glacier Bay or Tracy Arm.

 

Not many glaciers to see on sea days in the inside passage so that would not be the problem the OP was concerned about.

[robertmnch]

You are a generous person, or a HAL lover that thinks the line can do no wrong. As for me, I not only think the group thing (allowing them to shut other cruisers out of public rooms) is outrageous and have long advocated for a cruise "bill of rights" which would inform anyone booking (or booked) on a cruise with large groups...to be informed and given the option to cancel or reschedule.

 

Cruise lines enter into a contractual relationship with cruisers (although cruise lines design their fine print cruise contract to give them any right they choose to take). Cruisers make the reasonable assumption (based on information provided by the cruise lines) that public rooms are indeed public and will generally be available to everyone. It will take nothing less then a massive Group Action (i.e. lawsuit) to finally resolve the issue. And before folks flame me...we would point out that is was just such a class action suit which finally forced cruise lines to be more honest with so-called port charges and fees.

 

Hank

 

Hank, you are so right! I got flamed big time a few months ago because I was willing to discuss this subject! I pay a good $$$$ as a Solo and I expect to use every Venue no matter who has booked it. As the old saying goes: I paid for it and I am going to use every Venue, NO matter what HAL says in their Contracts. (CLASS ACTION Law Suits will get their attention!). Remember, it is we REPEAT Passengers who built this Cruise Line over the last 25 years!:mad:

[TiogaCruiser]

I have not been on Maasdam, but IIRC on her sister ship, Veendam, there is a bench around the windows in the gym that could make a nice hang out on glacier days. Also, I discovered a neat staircase (Oscar) in the act section that had lots of Windows. (I'm not 100% it was meant to be for pax, but there were no crew only signs on the door. If I had known about it I would have spent some time in that area in Antarctica).

[Gail & Marty sailing away]

We have always had Rangers in the Crow's Nest for Glacier days.

They are there for talks, selling items, pointing out things on their maps, etc.

Plus that is one place where the pea soup is served.

I doubt if there would be any square dancing on those days.

I agree mabe in the late afternoon they might have a event

[RocketMan275]

We have always had Rangers in the Crow's Nest for Glacier days.

They are there for talks, selling items, pointing out things on their maps, etc.

Plus that is one place where the pea soup is served.

I doubt if there would be any square dancing on those days.

 

We're too focused on square dancing. If the group is large enough and wishes to pay enough money, they can have the area 24/7 regardless of the activity they have scheduled there. The cruise line would find an alternative venue for serving pea soup and the park ranger could be elsewhere.

[RocketMan275]

Hank, you are so right! I got flamed big time a few months ago because I was willing to discuss this subject! I pay a good $$$$ as a Solo and I expect to use every Venue no matter who has booked it. As the old saying goes: I paid for it and I am going to use every Venue, NO matter what HAL says in their Contracts. (CLASS ACTION Law Suits will get their attention!). Remember, it is we REPEAT Passengers who built this Cruise Line over the last 25 years!:mad:

 

Would love to see a class action law suit on groups and CHARTERS too. Problem is, you'll need to find people who have been adversely affected by groups and charters.

[Roz]

I really don't see how you could bring a class action suit, or any kind of legal action, against charters. You can't even get on the ship unless you're part of the group that chartered the ship, so how were you adversely affected?

 

Roz

[RocketMan275]

I really don't see how you could bring a class action suit, or any kind of legal action, against charters. You can't even get on the ship unless you're part of the group that chartered the ship, so how were you adversely affected?

 

Roz

 

I was booked on Westy when I noticed that there was a Jazz cruise being offered for sale by an agent. The agents website said it was a 100% charter. HAL continued to offer bookings on this cruise for several weeks while the agent was offering the cruise as a charter.

 

I understand this is common practice. The agent enters into a contract with the cruise line which is contingent upon sufficient bookings. If enough book the charter, the agent books the charter. If there is insufficient interest, the agent allows the contract to lapse.

 

Passengers can be adversely affected if they make plans for a particular cruise only to find that cruise is chartered out from under them. I've seen where HAL has offered $100 to $200 OBC in these cases. I doubt this could offset airline change fees. Others are very particular about cruise dates, cabins selection, etc. Suitable options may not be available by the time HAL discloses the charter.

 

I firmly believe that this practice, entering into a contingent charter, while the cruise line continues to sell cabins adversely affects passengers. I believe the cruise line should have to disclose contingent contracts to the general public. There should be a disclosure statement on the website and the cruise line should have to notify existing bookings whenever the cruise line enters into a contingent contract.

 

Once again, this double booking went on for several weeks at least. Once I discovered the potential charter, I cancelled the cruise and booked on another cruise line.

[navybankerteacher]

I really don't see how you could bring a class action suit, or any kind of legal action, against charters. You can't even get on the ship unless you're part of the group that chartered the ship, so how were you adversely affected?

 

Roz

 

Most group charters do not fill the ship - the line still sells to individuals ----- who are negatively affected by the fact that some (and sometimes many) of the facilities supposedly offered are simply not available for some (and sometimes much) of the time. So you can indeed "get on the ship" , you just can't get all that you were given to think would be available. At the very least, lines could be required to notify all bookers of any group above a certain size, or of any group, regardless of size, which would be given exclusive use of any facility normally available.

[Infi]

As disappointing as this may seem, I spend almost no time in the Crow's Nest, too crowded and noisy. And people hog the front chairs so I'd have to stand.

 

I like the Verandah Deck, forward, just under the bridge, or aft where it is sheltered.

 

I also like the Observation deck which is accessed through the exercise room on Lido, port side and wraps around the front for good forward and side viewing.

 

If the weather is wet use the aft terrace, the Verandah Deck aft or the Lower Promenade Deck. Use the chairs there when you want rest but viewing really needs to be standing up.

 

And inside the Lido is good too especially if you find a table near the aft or mid from where you can see both sides.

 

There's a lot to see and many place to see from, try them all. Enjoy, m--

 

Thanks. I see that Maureen has pretty well covered the places in post #18. Here's some other places---

 

On the Maasdam, you can go aft on Veranda Deck, and find a great place to see and catch an expansive view. It's covered, so the "liquid sunshine" isn't as much of a factor. I have seen people bring deck chairs down from Navigation Deck where there aren't any there.

Navigation Deck has lots of space, much of it covered and some of it sheltered on the sides, from which to watch the scenery go by.

On Lido Deck there's a nice spot on the outside of the aft elevator banks. There's some support beams holding back the wind on the sides, and some roofing overhead. Unless the wind is coming from the aft, it's a sheltered spot that I love.

 

If you are closed off from the Crow's Nest, bundle up, go outside, grab a lap blanket (or three) and breathe deeply of that fresh air.

 

Thank you both for the suggestions, I really appreciate them. We have been on the S-class before, but the two of you listed some areas I hadn't thought of and will be sure to use. RuthC, you are so right on getting outdoors and breathing in the fresh air; that is one of the things I look forward to most in Alaska. One of us will be using a scooter on this cruise, which makes it a little more complicated to get to the out of the way places and some of the upper decks, but these suggestions will come in handy. Many thanks!

[Infi]

Hello, Infi -

 

Cruizer Bill and his wife Diana, who are on the July 4th roll call with you, will be on this cruise. You could ask your questions directly to him regarding your concerns. I'm pretty sure that the square dancing group will not be in the Crow's Nest on the Hubbard Glacier day of your itinerary, because a park ranger and a representative of the Yakutat Tlingit tribe will be onboard that day giving their presentations.

 

Thanks. I will ask them.

Edited June 12, 2016 by Infi

[Infi]

Thanks to everyone who weighed in with their experiences and offered sympathy for this situation. Like I mentioned before, we have sailed with groups many times and never had an issue, as those groups just used the smaller meeting rooms or one lounge for a few hours and that was it. Now I know that we got off easy and it could have been much worse, and from hearing your horror stories about the Crow's Nest or other lounges being blocked off for days at a time - yikes! :eek: That sounds awful.

 

In some ways, I don't fault HAL because group cruises and charters are a major source of revenue and they are in business to make money, after all. On the other hand, not chartering the whole ship to a group when they plan to exclusively take over prime lounge space is poor form. If they don't want to or can't charter the full ship, they should be letting passengers know what they're getting themselves into. The latter idea, of course, is a pipe dream, as HAL would never dream of making that public, lest they lose out on potential bookings. So the onus is now on the passenger to do their due diligence and scout out groups and choose their cruises accordingly. Not fair, but that's life. I've been good about doing it in the past, but I will admit I have gotten lax about it, as we usually cruise over Christmas and summer break, which generally attract few, if any, groups due to the price premium they command. I feel for the first time cruiser or less savvy cruiser who doesn't have access to sites or info like this and may get stuck in a group cruise situation they didn't expect and may get turned off to cruising as result. That's where HAL (and other lines) really lose out, I think.

 

I suppose what sticks in my craw the most is that they gave the Crow's Nest to this group - why not the Showroom, or the Ocean bar? Both of those venues are suited to dancing and have large dancefloors. HAL knows full well how busy the Crow's Nest gets on scenery cruises (heck, on any cruise!), so giving one group full use of the space is just asking for trouble and complaints from passengers. It's like cutting off your nose to spite your face: potentially alienate loyal Mariners by denying them access to a popular lounge, while you give free reign to a group who may or may not even cruise with HAL ever again. Just doesn't make sense.

 

Though we have been to Alaska before, we've never gone with HAL so it was helpful to learn about the ranger station setup in the Crow's Nest on sea days. I will have my fingers crossed that that's the plan for our sailing as well. I appreciated the creative suggestions from everyone on ways to avoid this group and still be able to enjoy the glaciers and beautiful scenery that Alaska brings - thanks, all.

[Roz]

"Most group charters do not fill the ship" - That is not my understanding of charters on HAL or any other cruise line.

 

I was once bumped off a 4-day coastal cruise when it was chartered by an insurance co. as a reward for their agents. For $100 more, HAL offered me a 7-day Alaskan cruise the same week, or I could just take the deposit refund. I went for the Alaskan cruise. That was in 2003 - don't know what is offered now.

 

Roz

[dockman]

I have no problem with a group having a couple of functions in PUBLIC rooms like crow's nest...but to basically take over ANY of the public places for the majority of the cruise and deprive other passengers the use is in my opinion just not right. Holland and other cruise lines SHOULD be required to advise all passengers of these situations and either allow cancellations or date changes at no charge and/or compensate the passengers substantially for not getting the cruise that was advertised. Better yet make it clear to groups that they CANNOT take over public spaces for extensive use UNLESS the group charters the entire ship.

 

 

Hopefully it will not take a law suit to get Holland to allow all passengers reasonable access to areas that are promoted on their website as public areas.

[RuthC]

Most group charters do not fill the ship - the line still sells to individuals -----

No. No, no, no, no, no. There is a difference between a "group" and a "charter".

 

What you say is true for a group; non-group passengers share the ship with members of the group. But a charter books out the entire ship for those who book through the chartering company. No one else can book a cabin when it's a charter.

[RocketMan275]

No. No, no, no, no, no. There is a difference between a "group" and a "charter".

 

What you say is true for a group; non-group passengers share the ship with members of the group. But a charter books out the entire ship for those who book through the chartering company. No one else can book a cabin when it's a charter.

 

RuthC,

 

I would like to ask you an off-topic question. Can you come to this thread?

http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=2366747

 

"Rotterdam replacing Oosterdam in Tampa for winter 2018?"

 

RM

[Aquahound]

As for me, I not only think the group thing (allowing them to shut other cruisers out of public rooms) is outrageous and have long advocated for a cruise "bill of rights" which would inform anyone booking (or booked) on a cruise with large groups...to be informed and given the option to cancel or reschedule.

 

I totally agree.

[Ms. Alpha]

From looking at the posts on the roll call, the square dance group will be 50 - 60 people. Not enough to take over the Crow's Nest full time. As others have said, the Dancers are paying for an Alaska cruise too, and will not have activities booked in conflict with prime Glacier Viewing Time. We know the caller involved (we are not part of his group) and he would NEVER exclude anyone from being in an area where dancing is going on as he wants to promote a POSITIVE image of square dancing!

 

Relax and enjoy the anticipation! It won't be long now:D

[Jemima]

I too am on this cruise and am not overly concerned. I'd also understood the group to have about 50 people. Square dancing takes up considerable space so the cruise nest would probably be the only suitable venue on an R or S class ship. My parents were avid square dancers so it should be fun to have some square dancers on the ship. They are usually very friendly people.