Best Airline for Overseas? Worst? And Why?

[TruckerDave]

I travel about 50 - 75k miles a year flying and try to use Delta as much as I can mostly because miles can be cashed in on Hotel rooms in place of flights. I don't think any other airline mileage programs allow you to do this.

.

 

 

-Sean

 

You can use miles for hotels on United and American. (USAir doesn't exist anymore. Might still be a few birds that haven't been painted yet, but it's all AA for practical purposes). Plus as others have said...using airline miles for hotels (and cars) is not a very good use of miles. (value wise)

[worldspan]

You can use miles for hotels on United and American. (USAir doesn't exist anymore. Might still be a few birds that haven't been painted yet, but it's all AA for practical purposes). Plus as others have said...using airline miles for hotels (and cars) is not a very good use of miles. (value wise)

 

 

Using airline miles for hotels can YES, be a very good use if you have the status with the Frequent flyer program. I am lifetime Gold with American hence all my hotel redemptions are ONE HALF the miles as they would be with a regular Advantage traveler. That said, the reduced redemption costs associated with the new Chase Sapphire Reserve are the best on the face of the earth.

 

To address the point of this thread and sorry to say but any carrier other than an a U.S. carrier, is the best. The Americans whether it be American, Delta, or United, they all treat you like garbage. Go on a foreign flag carrier and with very few exceptions you are guaranteed to be treated so much better!

[SelectSys]

The one thing I look at, after safety of course, is the product I am going to receive for the specific class of service for the purchase price. For me, I seat pitch is the most important followed by access or ability to get an aisle location. The food in one economy section is about the same as another to me. I don't drink much on flights to avoid dehydration so that isn't a big deal.

 

I typically stick to AA because I can get more room in coach for free. I will take this over BA's 31" seat pitch any day of the week. Same with Qantas for going to Australia in their 31" seat. I am actually worried that AA's planned introduction of Premium Economy will make my life worse.

[waterbug123]

 

I have noted that Turkish Airlines has some great deals flying to Europe, but they always seem to involve flying to Istanbul, then back west to our city of choice. Sometimes flying extra miles in extra airports is just not worth the discounted prices.

 

Of course it makes sense that they would route through Istanbul since that's their hub. While it's true that sometimes the extra time/miles don't make sense, Turkish Air does allow stopovers, so in addition to a low price you can get a short visit in to see the highlights of the city.

 

The Americans whether it be American, Delta, or United, they all treat you like garbage.

 

Wow, that has never been my experience. I tend to fly Delta 95% of the time and have never been treated like garbage. With the exception of many of the gate agents at ATL, I have found almost all Delta employees to be wonderful. Every large company will have someone who doesn't like their job and it shows in their work, but I am generally greeted with a smile by the ticket counter agents, thanked by name by the gate agents, treated courteously by the flight attendants and actually wrote to Delta recently to comment the DL baggage office staff at FLL. Whenever I've called about a schedule change or similar, the phone agents have been professional and courteous. So nope, definitely haven't been treated like garbage. Rarely fly United or American, and only occasionally Southwest or Jet Blue, by I have found much the same experience with 95% of the employees of these others when I do.

[back-at-it]

OK .. Why is there so much negativity about AA? I have flights on AA to Barcelona, all first class. SRQ to CLT, then CLT to PHL then PHLto BCN. The flight to BCN is a A330-200.

 

Anything I need to watch out for?

[fbgd]

Anything I need to watch out for?

 

Well, for a start there won't be F on all your flights. PHL-BCN is operated by a 2 class aircraft, Business and Economy only.

 

Otherwise in the realm of world airlines AA is about average, maybe slightly below for premium cabins. Some of their newer aircraft are pretty decent (777-300s for example) but their lounges are very meh and onboard service is rather variable.

 

Personally I stick with non-US carriers for international flights unless it requires convoluted routings to avoid it. i.e. I flew United Business Class from Virginia to Buenos Aires because it was overnight flatbeds with an easy connection each direction.

Edited October 19, 2016 by fbgd

[GeezerCouple]

My absolute least favorite: AA. Did TATL - home-DFW-LHR/LAX-home. 777 for the long legs of the trip. Big IFE boxes under the seat on the way out left no room for feet or a small bag, making it especially cramped. The FAs only make one pass with drink, so if you got thirsty, you had to disturb your aisle mates. On the way home, I scored the aisle bulkhead that had no wall between business and economy. FAs kept hitting my legs because they wouldn't make the little turn from the wide Business aisle to the smaller Econ aisle. Couldn't sleep at all with that. I went to the back once to get some water and one FA chastised me for not getting the water when they went through a few hours before!! (they were engaged in personal conversation when I asked).

 

My favorite economy TATL is still Delta. FAs consistently walk through the cabin with water at all hours of the flight. Actually have foot room under the seat in front of me. Food is unremarkable, but that is a good thing in Economy ;) I've flown DL from home to MUC, FRA, FCO, MXP, BCN, CDG and also at the end of service to/from CAI and AMM. Nothing to complain about, just solid service.

 

My current favorite business TATL is Alitalia. Yes, Alitalia. Great private seat with comfy lay-flat seat. Nice Frette duvet and pillow. A really nice Ferragamo amenity bag. The food and wine service was excellent. Food served seat-side from carts. I got to pick what I wanted for each course (if there were 2 choices, I could pick 2 small portions of each or 1 normal portion). The pasta (I always get the plain red sauced pasta) is always done just right - not rubbery or undercooked. I have been surprised by the fish dishes I've had - again done just right. I fell in love with anchovy on Alitalia! The wine was good and the FAs were happy to pour what you wanted, when you wanted. The FAs also were quick to respond to requests for additional water overnight.

 

Nice to hear someone shares our opinion about Alitalia business with those flat-bed seats.

 

We flew Alitalia in Premium Economy a couple of years ago, and the flight was just barely too long, and our aging bodies... hurt, even though it was definitely better than regular economy.

 

The next year, same flights to/from Europe, at the last minute they changed the equipment, and we were upgraded (no charge) to that wonderful business class. Yes, that pasta, and the cart at seat/bed side. We had seconds of almost everything. The flight attendants handled the utensils as well as waiters at a top restaurant.

 

On the way back, same equipment chance, same upgrade.

 

We still joke that it was actually a clever scam: They got us *hooked* on flat beds. We really slept, especially on the overnight heading east.

 

Now we are using our years and years of hoarded AAdvantage award miles/points.

BUT... we are going to use them on partners, heading to and from Japan from USA east coast, on JAL outbound and Cathay Pacific returning, all first class :)

That will be among the best use of points we could imagine.

(Other target is Singapore Suites, for that double bed!)

 

The number of points was surprisingly low for that type of first class bed on a long-haul (80k pp each way).

 

Of course, we haven't flown the JAL or Cathay Pacific *yet*. We'll see how it really is in a few months...

[wowzz]

OK .. Why is there so much negativity about AA? I have flights on AA to Barcelona, all first class. SRQ to CLT, then CLT to PHL then PHLto BCN. The flight to BCN is a A330-200.

 

Anything I need to watch out for?

 

It is all a matter of comparisons, and deciding what is your own personal benchmark, and if you have only experienced AA business or first, you have little to compare it to.

As fbdg states, in the world of international carriers, AA would be distinctly average when it comes to first/business cabins. You may never get a chance to try it, but at the very least look at what Singapore Airlines provides in business, let alone First. AA's offering in First doesn't come anywhere close to what Singapore provides in Business.

[iancal]

We have had very good and very poor flights on several of the well known brands. There appears to be a lack of consistency. Try a late flight on a short hop. You get tired, overworked cabin staff who are anxious to get home and fed up with the public. Compare that to a business class seat early in the day...no comparison. Depends on your outlook as well. I cannot judge safety other than what I see in the cabin and that hardly allows me to comment.

[brian1]

Hi,BA always good.Iberia.last year MAD to LIM absolute rubbish,no liquor only wine twice on whole trip,food garbage FAs surly.DELTA PE+ LHR to SEA brilliant,2 nice hot meals,1 cold snack,numerous booze passings and endless water offerings.VS last week MIA to LHR ,food rubbish,1 liquor offering before dinner,refusal of liquor at dinner only wine,even though my partner doesnt drink wine,cheers,Brian.PS take that how you like Im a retired London plumber who more or less has ate everything in cafes in my lifetime,so pretty flexible.

[buggins0402]

Nice to hear someone shares our opinion about Alitalia business with those flat-bed seats.

 

We flew Alitalia in Premium Economy a couple of years ago, and the flight was just barely too long, and our aging bodies... hurt, even though it was definitely better than regular economy.

 

The next year, same flights to/from Europe, at the last minute they changed the equipment, and we were upgraded (no charge) to that wonderful business class. Yes, that pasta, and the cart at seat/bed side. We had seconds of almost everything. The flight attendants handled the utensils as well as waiters at a top restaurant.

 

On the way back, same equipment chance, same upgrade.

 

We still joke that it was actually a clever scam: They got us *hooked* on flat beds. We really slept, especially on the overnight heading east.

 

Now we are using our years and years of hoarded AAdvantage award miles/points.

BUT... we are going to use them on partners, heading to and from Japan from USA east coast, on JAL outbound and Cathay Pacific returning, all first class :)

That will be among the best use of points we could imagine.

(Other target is Singapore Suites, for that double bed!)

 

The number of points was surprisingly low for that type of first class bed on a long-haul (80k pp each way).

 

Of course, we haven't flown the JAL or Cathay Pacific *yet*. We'll see how it really is in a few months...

 

Geezer, how did you find the award availability on the partners....did you just call AA? The most I can find is redemption charts.

Edited October 19, 2016 by buggins0402

[GeezerCouple]

Geezer, how did you find the award availability on the partners....did you just call AA? The most I can find is redemption charts.

 

Yes, CALL!

I don't think this can be done online with AA.

 

There seem to be two charts, and the 'better' one is for "partners". :)

 

Call the regular AA number, and ask for "International Awards Desk" (or department or whatever).

When you get transferred, ask again... sometimes they don't get it right.

 

They were amazing (well, all but one person who screwed it up).

 

It will help if you first use

 

http://matrix.itasoftware.com/

 

to find some flights/routes that might work.

 

Then check

http://www.seatguru.com

 

to check that the category of service you are planning to use has the "best" seats on that particular flight/equipment.

That can vary a lot, even within the same airline, same route, when comparing different flights/times of day, etc.

(Yes, it could change, but at least that's a start.)

 

Also, let Google be your friend in terms of finding ALL partners.

There are sometimes ways to do a double jump, but we've mostly let a service do that:

http://www.PointsPros.com

 

Their fees are good if one is getting tickets worth thousands. And NO CHARGE unless they find a route/seats that you decide you want.

We were mighty suspicious at first, but we've now used them twice.

I learned a huge amount working with them on a very tricky itinerary the first time, so I was doing it on my own the second time.

I did it fine outbound, but later for the return, an AA rep really messed it up (and switched us from JAL to AA metal, both leaving at the exact same time).

And the seats we wanted were gone. So I turned back to PointsPros.

They helped us get better routing home.

Given that our seats would have cost (at full price) about $13k each, one way (gasp), we didn't mind a small fee to get it right.

 

AA also helped us look for different dates until we found what we wanted, and we did have flexibility outbound.

Return, we extended our stay by one day to get award availability.

 

Another extra nice thing about AA partner awards is that they will HOLD the seats for a few days, which we used to make sure our tour dates could be changed.

 

Email us at e-address below if you need more info/assistance.

 

Good luck.

 

We cannot wait to use these ultra luxe seat/beds on JAL and Cathay Pacific to/from Japan next spring.

[buggins0402]

Yes, CALL!

I don't think this can be done online with AA.

 

There seem to be two charts, and the 'better' one is for "partners". :)

 

Call the regular AA number, and ask for "International Awards Desk" (or department or whatever).

When you get transferred, ask again... sometimes they don't get it right.

 

They were amazing (well, all but one person who screwed it up).

 

It will help if you first use

 

http://matrix.itasoftware.com/

 

to find some flights/routes that might work.

 

Then check

http://www.seatguru.com

 

to check that the category of service you are planning to use has the "best" seats on that particular flight/equipment.

That can vary a lot, even within the same airline, same route, when comparing different flights/times of day, etc.

(Yes, it could change, but at least that's a start.)

 

Also, let Google be your friend in terms of finding ALL partners.

There are sometimes ways to do a double jump, but we've mostly let a service do that:

http://www.PointsPros.com

 

Their fees are good if one is getting tickets worth thousands. And NO CHARGE unless they find a route/seats that you decide you want.

We were mighty suspicious at first, but we've now used them twice.

I learned a huge amount working with them on a very tricky itinerary the first time, so I was doing it on my own the second time.

I did it fine outbound, but later for the return, an AA rep really messed it up (and switched us from JAL to AA metal, both leaving at the exact same time).

And the seats we wanted were gone. So I turned back to PointsPros.

They helped us get better routing home.

Given that our seats would have cost (at full price) about $13k each, one way (gasp), we didn't mind a small fee to get it right.

 

AA also helped us look for different dates until we found what we wanted, and we did have flexibility outbound.

Return, we extended our stay by one day to get award availability.

 

Another extra nice thing about AA partner awards is that they will HOLD the seats for a few days, which we used to make sure our tour dates could be changed.

 

Email us at e-address below if you need more info/assistance.

 

Good luck.

 

We cannot wait to use these ultra luxe seat/beds on JAL and Cathay Pacific to/from Japan next spring.

 

Thanks Geezer! That does help! Being a newbie at this I was jumping up and down finding some Biz class back from Seoul at 60K pp on AA. But, we had to add another city into our busy itinerary. I guess no harm, flights are near perfect and we're really looking forward to a few days seeing Seoul. But, I would have loved to have a look see on what I could have done with Cathay Pacific.

 

We're circling South America for 2018, it looks like it will be a similar situation as our Asia trip ...we'll have enough United's for business one way, but I have to get creative for the second flight. We had a higher pain threshold for economy on long flights when we were younger, but over 8 or 9 hours is getting to be our tolerance level.:) I have no problem doing the "Gardyloo" and buying the miles on AA in a sale.

[GeezerCouple]

Thanks Geezer! That does help! Being a newbie at this I was jumping up and down finding some Biz class back from Seoul at 60K pp on AA. But, we had to add another city into our busy itinerary. I guess no harm, flights are near perfect and we're really looking forward to a few days seeing Seoul. But, I would have loved to have a look see on what I could have done with Cathay Pacific.

 

We're circling South America for 2018, it looks like it will be a similar situation as our Asia trip ...we'll have enough United's for business one way, but I have to get creative for the second flight. We had a higher pain threshold for economy on long flights when we were younger, but over 8 or 9 hours is getting to be our tolerance level.:) I have no problem doing the "Gardyloo" and buying the miles on AA in a sale.

 

We were also amazed to find out how relatively inexpensive buying AAdvantage miles/points, especially with any type of special promo, compared to "what we could get".

I had always assumed it would be a rip off, and never actually checked it out.

Thank goodness we didn't wait several more years to realize!

 

We had been emphasizing using Amex, but now realize those points aren't nearly as useful to us, given the airlines we could use. So we are trying to switch most spending to a Citi-AAdvantage card.

 

We also just can't tolerate coach/economy anymore the way we used to, not that many years ago.

So knowing about all of this REALLY makes a difference in our planning for future travel. We *can* still go to some of those distant places. Nice.

 

And we might find that Business class in these premium international carriers is fine. We just decided to "splurge" and go first class. I had been reading about that class of service, and seen so many photos... I really wanted to give it a try. And these are LONG flights, so the best use of those extra 20k miles/points between business and first.

[slidergirl]

Alitalia is a member of SkyTeam, the alliance with Delta. Not AA.

I regularly see Alitalia listed as an option (frequently the least expensive) when looking for points flights. I take DL to JFK, then hop on AZ there. The connections work for that, not so much for AZ out of ORD or BOS...

I see KLM and AF flights also. I haven't looked at TPAC as I haven't had a trip there yet. This is only TATL and to Africa (NBO).

 

for TATL on AA and it's OneWorld alliance, you would most likely see flights on BA, Air Berlin, Finnair and Iberia, if they show on the AA site. I did a quickie search on aa.com for flights PHX to either FCO or BCN. British Airways was shown as well as AA...

[Valley Girl of VA]

I find using Expert Flyer better than using the ITA Matrix. You can get a free trial with it

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Forums

[ptrpanpens]

I just returned from a FCO to LAX business class flight with Alitalia and agree that it is high quality for an airline flight. I have flown business class in Lufthansa, KLM, AA, UA, Delta and BA and this was the best experience IMO. Personally enjoyed the male flight attendants in business class.

 

The food is great for an airline and I also enjoyed the lounge although it was very crowded. But very good food and drinks.

Edited November 5, 2016 by ptrpanpens

[Globaliser]

I find using Expert Flyer better than using the ITA Matrix.

I'd personally recommend that frequent flyers use both resources; they complement each other because they do different things.