Explorations Central

[mexylopez]

We are doing a port intensive (as they all are) Med Cruise on the Westerdam in Sept/17. With only 3 sea days out of 24 when will a person have time to enjoy the topics? Unless they hold them in the evening, but there's not much time before or after dinner plus all the other activities... (gotta love first World problems) Have I misunderstood the article?

[CruisinTexans]

Hope the venue provides more information than the magazine. I subscribed to Afar and have since cancelled. It was long on photos and ads and short on any in-depth information. The interactive tv presentations on the Oosterdam were very shallow also.

[bUU]

They've got to ride a very fine line: Recall what I relayed above about the other poster in the other thread thinking it ludicrous that (effectively) vacation should involve any work. Whatever the cruise line offers needs to appeal to a very large portion of the passengers aboard, and more specifically, to the largest portion of the passengers excluding those who wouldn't value the offering that much regardless. Those of us doing significant research and learning on our own are clearly going to be starting from a level of knowledge far beyond that of the vast majority of the passengers. There would almost surely never been enough of us to justify the cost of offering us anything at all that starts where we are when we board the ship. By being part of a really small portion of the passengers, we're effectively excluding our specific interests and needs from consideration. I think this offering necessarily will be aimed at the passenger coming aboard with practically no knowledge of the history, culture, flora or fauna of the ports being visited.

[kazu]

I have taken a look not just at the site referenced here but some others as well.

 

I don't see any comfy chairs facing the sea as are currently there? Plus some of the other comfy chairs seem to be gone?

 

I also don't see a library.

 

On the cruises we have been on, we have had cultural talks, port "experts", etc.

 

Crow's Nest was busy enough with the ukelele practices up there, Trivia, activities, etc. I'm not sure how this is going to work in terms of being able to go there to sit and relax?

 

Like Tampa Girl, I am a bit skeptical. I guess time will tell ;)

[comcox]

I'm wondering if this addition will mean the elimination of the traditional ship's library. I've read in a few other forum postings the possibility of HAL getting rid of the libraries but then there has been some backlash as well.

 

I really like the idea of this new area and just wish it started sooner so we could have it on the Volendam for our spring Asia to Alaska cruise. However, I do not want to lose the library as I'm a serious reader and do not like reading on a tablet.

[bUU]

I think we can safely assume that libraries will be affected, if not by this change than by others. It is pretty evident that people bringing their own reading has devalued libraries (and not just aboard cruise ships, either).

[TiogaCruiser]

In 2013 Captain Bos set up Veendam's crows nest as a "resource center" during our Antarctica cruise. He ordered books from amazon and eBay on related topics. (Flora, fauna, history, etc.) They were all available as reference materials (in CN only) and were used. He also had paper navigation charts with our proposed route (and final DR track) posted and a cadet came up hourly to update the plan as we went from plan b to f to z.

[Tampa Girl]

I have taken a look not just at the site referenced here but some others as well.

 

I don't see any comfy chairs facing the sea as are currently there? Plus some of the other comfy chairs seem to be gone?

 

I also don't see a library.

 

)

 

 

No, but we can see where the library was!

[Tampa Girl]

So far HAL, under new leadership, has managed to get rid of the three of the most popular sites on their ships: Ocean Bar (as we once knew it); the library, and now the Crows Nest. Nice going, HAL!

[frankc98376]

No, but we can see where the library was!

 

These are artist renderings. the HAL announcement did say "The new venue will replace the ships' popular Crow's Nest lounge; although the lounge will not undergo a drastic transformation, it will remain a place where passengers can go to relax, grab a drink and enjoy the views.".

Edited December 15, 2016 by frankc98376

[Randyk47]

Thank you for the information and pictures.

I am not sure about this new venue.

 

I'm real sure about this venue......a further degradation of what was one of our favorite areas. :mad:

[RuthC]

So far HAL, under new leadership, has managed to get rid of the three of the most popular sites on their ships: Ocean Bar (as we once knew it); the library, and now the Crows Nest. Nice going, HAL!

Oh, more than three: The promenade as a place to relax and commune with the sea is gone from the Koningsdam (and presumably forthcoming new ships), the Piano Bar as an intimate venue where people can make their own fun with each other, fun, no-charge activities during the day, where passengers can meet each other.

 

The focus has become less and less a fun vacation, that includes more than ports to visit, and more and more a way to bring in money.

If my focus is to spend, I can do that from the comfort of my recliner, and don't have to leave home.

[whogo]

I assume the audio visual stations will combine with the Muzak to assault the ear. The video will draw the eye away from any proper interaction with fellow humans, even though the video ads for shore excursions, jewelry sales, spa treatments, and shore excursions are of no interest to any but the most shallow of individuals.

 

I have no reason to think that AFAR will provide any useful information to independent travelers. Recommendations are "in partnership with" and most are linked to relevant shore excursions.

[mame42]

They've got to ride a very fine line: Recall what I relayed above about the other poster in the other thread thinking it ludicrous that (effectively) vacation should involve any work. Whatever the cruise line offers needs to appeal to a very large portion of the passengers aboard, and more specifically, to the largest portion of the passengers excluding those who wouldn't value the offering that much regardless. Those of us doing significant research and learning on our own are clearly going to be starting from a level of knowledge far beyond that of the vast majority of the passengers. There would almost surely never been enough of us to justify the cost of offering us anything at all that starts where we are when we board the ship. By being part of a really small portion of the passengers, we're effectively excluding our specific interests and needs from consideration. I think this offering necessarily will be aimed at the passenger coming aboard with practically no knowledge of the history, culture, flora or fauna of the ports being visited.

 

Since I cruise for the itinerary, not the onboard experience, count me as one of those who researches art, culture, and history of every port. After a full day ashore, I need a light meal, a couple of glasses of wine, and a shower, not a lecture.

 

We did have interesting, informative speakers who addressed those subjects in depth on the January Passage to the Far East, albeit at inconvenient times (Perhaps planned as to not interfere with other, revenue producing, activities?); however, that cruise entailed fairly frequent sea days.

 

On itineraries such as the Med cruise posted above with rare sea days, after a week of intensive exploration, my sea days are occupied with attention to neglected personal grooming (When WAS the last time I shaved my legs??), catching up with correspondence, organizing paperwork, etc, for the coming week, and stowing accumulated clean laundry. When would I fit in a lecture or two?

[Tampa Girl]

Oh, more than three: The promenade as a place to relax and commune with the sea is gone from the Koningsdam (and presumably forthcoming new ships), the Piano Bar as an intimate venue where people can make their own fun with each other, fun, no-charge activities during the day, where passengers can meet each other.

 

The focus has become less and less a fun vacation, that includes more than ports to visit, and more and more a way to bring in money.

If my focus is to spend, I can do that from the comfort of my recliner, and don't have to leave home.

 

Forgot about the piano bar, but was unaware that the promenade is gone on the Koningsdam. Another reason to never sail it.

[JennysUncle]

The intro on the video is ironic considering that they have just dropped all ports in Turkey.

 

It's too bad they aren't taking over the Casino space. One of our favorite "explorations" activities is to sit in the quiet of the Crows Nest and watch the world go by. But promoting shore excursions more heavily probably wouldn't offset the loss of gambling profits.

[rkacruiser]

EXC: I am cautiously optimistic about this new onboard offering. I watched the video and reviewed the other information presented on the page. There is promise in what Mr. Ashford (I assume) is describing. The virtual Bridge idea a good one. (Suggestion: add a Cadet or a Third Officer from time to time as part of the Program to give presentations and/or answer questions. This was done with great success on the final HAL voyage of the Statendam to Singapore.)

 

Maps: Providing us guests with decent maps has been a weak point for years! Hopefully, that will be improved.

 

The current position of On-Location Guides: Will these be eliminated in favor of more local, expert people? Some of the current On-Location Guides do a tremendously good job: Ian who sailed on the Eurodam's Amsterdam-New York cruise a few years ago and the Grand World Voyages' Barbara. (There are probably others whose names I do not know.) I hope the knowledge that these long-time destination experts have developed is not lost.

 

The atmosphere of the Crow's Nest will be different, no doubt. In the video, I thought I saw in the renderings of the interior a very brief view of what appeared to be the side of the Crow's Nest's bar. To not offer a beverage service there would be a strange decision, I think. But, the windows with the magnificent views are still there; the seating and setting will be different. (Suggestion: on most, if not all, of the ships there is a temporary wall that can be used to separate the Captain's Corner area from the rest of the Lounge. Why could that wall not be made permanent and allow the Captain's Corner area to still be a quiet spot to read and view the sea?)

 

Library: From what I could see in the video, what hard cover material that will be present will be destination oriented and not what we have experienced over the years. A major loss as far as I am concerned, but time marches on.

 

No more Happy Hour in the Crow's Nest? Certainly does not look like it would be suitable for the large crowd that usually attends. If not there, then where? Another venue will be needed in addition to the Ocean Bar.

 

I am willing to let this concept be adopted and see how it works. Just like some of the new concepts on the Koningsdam need tweaking and will probably be refined in the Nieuw Statendam, this concept will probably have the same experience.

[InTheWASide]

For those panicked about the bar I'm pretty sure it's in this image that they didn't show full screen but had behind Orlando at one point

 

 

 

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Forums

[rkacruiser]

Yes, that is what I saw as well. I don't see seats around the bar on the near side of the image, but there may still be some along the other side of the bar.

[kazu]

For those panicked about the bar I'm pretty sure it's in this image that they didn't show full screen but had behind Orlando at one point

 

 

 

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Forums

I am sure there will be a bar. After all it's money maker for HAL :)

 

What I DON'T see is the comfortable chairs that used to be there.

 

We'll just wait and see and hopefully they don't touch the S & R ships and especially the Prinsendam. Her Crow's Nest is beautiful and this would take away from the whole dynamic of the smaller ships IMO.

[RMLincoln]

On Tales of the South Pacific we had big turnouts in the show lounge for lectures and the ports presentations... lots of interest and far too many people for the Crow's Nest.

 

Kainoa, our On Location guide, was excellent in personalizing the Pacific experience for me, but he didn't have maps, and didn't have local specifics for anywhere other than maybe Hawaii. Maps would be a huge improvement, and so would having access to local knowledge. The lines at his desk for his one hour of availability in the evening were long and frustrating.

 

Unfortunately the travel guides in the library were eventually "lifted" by selfish guests as we got closer to the ports they covered. I'm skeptical if HAL would do anything to solve that problem but I wish they would. We looked up (when the reference books were available) many things during our time after dinner before the show. I brought only one comprehensive travel guide, Moon's South Pacific, but the Lonely Planet guides were great to augment the one I had (mine was somewhat out of date), but I would have had to bring about 5 books to cover our itinerary and wouldn't do it. I took photos of some of the maps in the reference books to take info with us. A few print out would have been useful.

 

The virtual bridge would be of great interest too. On our transatlantic on NCL Jade last year I often went to the Navigation Deck forward to the window they had at the back of the bridge. It was a room not only with the window but also two different navigational charts and ship telemetry monitors, plus a loop video of how the ship was built. I liked being able to check ship positions, radar images of what was around us (on the days that there was something around us). There was a curtain that the bridge staff closed from time to time but the monitors were always available.

 

On Amsterdam there is an electronic real-time chart in the Crow's Nest. Often I'd meet people there, all of us trying to interpret what it was showing, so having a bit more to work with would be a benefit.

 

I'm sure they'll have ways to make money... liquor, wine, coffee sales. I think it could be a lovely place to spend some time learning and planning... but not while they're teaching ukulele (which they did in the Crow's Nest) or steel drums, that's usually been done at one of the pools. Would it still be a pleasant place to relax and take in the views? We'll find out.

 

I think EXC could enhance my experience especially if we do another long cruise, so I'll keep open minded about it and stay tuned to comments as they come in. m--

[comcox]

In 2013 Captain Bos set up Veendam's crows nest as a "resource center" during our Antarctica cruise. He ordered books from amazon and eBay on related topics. (Flora, fauna, history, etc.) They were all available as reference materials (in CN only) and were used. He also had paper navigation charts with our proposed route (and final DR track) posted and a cadet came up hourly to update the plan as we went from plan b to f to z.

 

We had a similar set up on the Feb 2014 Antarctica cruise and the resources were very well used. In fact at times you had trouble getting in there but it was a great addition to our cruise.

[InTheWASide]

More renderings that I've come across.

 

 

 

 

 

[SC_GAY_Cruiser]

WoW! I'm impressed. Thanks Brad

 

I am amazed how some can make such negative comments about something that HAL is trying to do. Yes, its to make money. But yes, its about improving the cruise experience for us passengers.

 

And those of us who do research the hell outta (including me) the ship and ports are in the far minority compared to our fellow cruisers. Everyone is welcome of course to comment, positive or negative, how it will AFFECT THEM, but there are a couple of thousand other people that HAL is also trying improve their overall cruise experience.

 

dave

[bUU]

I am amazed how some can make such negative comments about something that HAL is trying to do. Yes, its to make money. But yes, its about improving the cruise experience for us passengers.

I think a lot of folks look at such things as zero-sum games: There's a certain amount of "paying attention to what passengers want" to go around, and the more other people get of that the less left for one's self. And that's actually not untrue. It creates natural points of conflict within the customer-base: Smokers vs. anti-smokers; formal wear vs. casual wear; libraries vs. on-board internet cafes serving espresso drinks; etc. And as you point out...

And those of us who do research the hell outta (including me) the ship and ports are in the far minority compared to our fellow cruisers. Everyone is welcome of course to comment, positive or negative, how it will AFFECT THEM, but there are a couple of thousand other people that HAL is also trying improve their overall cruise experience.

Which makes it arguably a mistake for the cruise line to work hard to Explorations Central to appeal to folks like us.

 

dave