Gratuities

[Velvetwater]

Do you have a source for the "less than $2 an hour, mostly from tips" statement? I hear it every now and then, but I can't find a source. When I look at the glassdoor.com site, where employees "self report" wages, I see that cabin stewards make $10 an hour (about $8 an hour if they are an assistant) on NCL, RCCL and Celebrity. That compares favorably with the minimum wages in both the US and England (if Google is serving me correctly). Especially when you consider that room and board is included in that rate.

 

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CC itself states a cabin steward earns anywhere from $650 - $1150 per month. Now if you break that lower 650 into the apparent 12 hour a day shifts with the odd day off here and there (which is 336 hours per month) it works out at around $2 per hour...if you take the top figure of 1150 then its $3.5 per hour. They quoted some crew as making up to $2500 if experienced which is where the $8 comes from but thats only after good tips.

 

Also, I can't speak for US minimum wages but in the UK its actually £7.50 which is around $10 and would have been $12ish before the pound fell after brexit.

 

this was the article anyway:

 

https://www.cruisecritic.co.uk/articles.cfm?ID=261

[BirdTravels]

Do you have a source for the "less than $2 an hour, mostly from tips" statement? I hear it every now and then, but I can't find a source. When I look at the glassdoor.com site, where employees "self report" wages, I see that cabin stewards make $10 an hour (about $8 an hour if they are an assistant) on NCL, RCCL and Celebrity. That compares favorably with the minimum wages in both the US and England (if Google is serving me correctly). Especially when you consider that room and board is included in that rate..

You could watch this news report

[zqvol]

We're first time cruisers booked for August on NCL Epic. I know NCL have a daily charge added to your bill to cover gratuities etc (around 16dollars per day I think) However, a friend who cruises on Epic regularly says as UK citizens we can refuse to pay this (apparently its mandatory in USA) Advice welcome

 

Consider it part of the required cost of cruising and don't give it another thought.

[sanger727]

CC itself states a cabin steward earns anywhere from $650 - $1150 per month. Now if you break that lower 650 into the apparent 12 hour a day shifts with the odd day off here and there (which is 336 hours per month) it works out at around $2 per hour...if you take the top figure of 1150 then its $3.5 per hour. They quoted some crew as making up to $2500 if experienced which is where the $8 comes from but thats only after good tips.

 

Also, I can't speak for US minimum wages but in the UK its actually £7.50 which is around $10 and would have been $12ish before the pound fell after brexit.

 

this was the article anyway:

 

https://www.cruisecritic.co.uk/articles.cfm?ID=261

 

In the US the minimum wage varies but serving positions do pay approx. $2 an hour in many states. The employer is allowed to count the expected tips towards them making minimum wage and therefore pay under minimum wage. I don't know what standard wages are on the cruise ship but I wouldn't be surprised if the system was similar - the total wages reported including tips.

[sjbdtz]

Especially when you consider that room and board is included in that rate.

 

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I've seen this brought up many times before, and while it may have been by other posters, you are the one I'm going to ask... :halo:

 

 

Why does it matter than room & board are included? Presumably these people have homes they have to maintain, even if they are vacant.

 

I travel a lot for work, and my hotel rooms are paid for, and my meals are paid for. BUT...I wouldn't have INCURRED those costs BUT for work. So it's not like I was getting a freebie. Work made me incur costs, and then reimbursed them.

 

It's no different for life at sea: you cannot live at home & shop in your local grocer, so your new costs are reimbursed (in the form of being subsidized 100% at the outset).

 

 

It's not a benefit. If they're making the equivalent of minimum wage in the US.... well that sucks, because the US minimum wage is atrocious. However that's not what I'm trying to get at: the WAY they make that, is with their tips.

 

Their BASE pay is negligible.

 

 

 

Stephen

 

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[cb at sea]

For UK bookings, the grats are simply included in the price. For the US, sure you can refuse to pay the tips, but why? When you see how hard the staff works to make your vacation nice, you'll feel guilty being a cheapskate.

[swedish weave]

For UK bookings, the grats are simply included in the price. For the US, sure you can refuse to pay the tips, but why? When you see how hard the staff works to make your vacation nice, you'll feel guilty being a cheapskate.

 

Why do you feel the need to start name calling?

 

Many who remove the charge do so in order to tip those who provide service to them.

 

If you have details about how the cruise line distributes the money they charge guests, please provide references.

[fshagan]

I've seen this brought up many times before, and while it may have been by other posters, you are the one I'm going to ask... :halo:

 

Why does it matter than room & board are included? Presumably these people have homes they have to maintain, even if they are vacant.

 

It does matter. In US labor and tax law, providing room and board can be taxable income. You figure the income at the rate it would cost you to obtain housing in that location. However, it is not taxable if it is "for the benefit of the employer" (and meets some other minor tests). For NCL employees, the room and board is non-taxable, and I don't know about you, but I pay about 20% of my income for housing costs. I would love my employer to pick that up. Benefits have value.

 

They may have other housing costs, or they may live with family for the three months they are home. That's not unusual for people in their countries (or for 30 year olds in America).

 

 

It's not a benefit. If they're making the equivalent of minimum wage in the US.... well that sucks, because the US minimum wage is atrocious. However that's not what I'm trying to get at: the WAY they make that, is with their tips.

 

No, I said $10 an hour, USD. That's about $12.90 CAD, and more than the minimum wage in any Canadian province according to Wikipedia

 

If you really feel that they are being exploited how can you be a party to it? I would quit cruising if I thought that.

[KeithJenner]

For UK bookings, the grats are simply included in the price.

 

Just a little clarification. For UK bookings, it is included in the price for those cruises booked after all inclusive was introduced, which was a couple of months or so ago.

 

Most UK bookings for this year will have, I suspect, have been made before that, so the DSC is still payable.

[sjbdtz]

It does matter. In US labor and tax law, providing room and board can be taxable income. You figure the income at the rate it would cost you to obtain housing in that location. However, it is not taxable if it is "for the benefit of the employer" (and meets some other minor tests). For NCL employees, the room and board is non-taxable, and I don't know about you, but I pay about 20% of my income for housing costs. I would love my employer to pick that up. Benefits have value.

 

They may have other housing costs, or they may live with family for the three months they are home. That's not unusual for people in their countries (or for 30 year olds in America).

 

 

 

 

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No, I said $10 an hour, USD. That's about $12.90 CAD, and more than the minimum wage in any Canadian province according to Wikipedia

 

If you really feel that they are being exploited how can you be a party to it? I would quit cruising if I thought that.

 

 

 

a) many of the people I've met on ships have families at home. Wives, husbands, partners, children. Those people need to live somewhere during those 9 months.

 

b) Ontario is in the process of scaling-up minimum wage to $15 / hr.

 

c) I don't think they're being exploited. I think that they would be, if they had to pay their own room & board, or if people removed the DSC since what I was saying, is that IT makes up the bulk of their income.

 

 

Stephen

[Ox Fan Cruiser]

False premise by OP, the DSC is NOT a tip. Tipping si 100% optional other than the 18% added to packages.

I believe it was Shakespeare that once wrote "A TIP by any other name is still a TIP".

If we read the FAQ section on NCL's website, NCL goes out of its way to pat themselves on their back for not adding a TIP to their bill. We can call this their "Bait".... then later if you dig deep enough you will find their "Switch" where they charge you a Service Charge.

How many people find this out the night before the end of the cruise? IMVHO, NCL is causing more bad blood with the customers than it is worth.

[Ox Fan Cruiser]

To clarify my OP I spoke to NCL yesterday and as someone pointed out here as of April 2017 the daily gratuity/ service charge is now included in the fare. Booked before April you can tell guest services on board you want to pay all part or none of it you are still free to give to individual crew members as you see fit

from NCL's FAQ section...."

What's the service charge?

 

Why is there a service charge? The reason there's a fixed service charge is an important one: Our Crew (as are the crew from other lines) is encouraged to work together as a team.... Staff members including complimentary restaurant staff, stateroom stewards and behind-the-scenes support staff are compensated by a combination of salary and incentive programs that your service charge supports.... How much is the charge? Onboard service charges are additional.... How much are the service charges? - For bookings made prior to April 1st, 2017, regardless of the date of your cruise: PREPAID service charges will be charged the CURRENT price of: • $15....50 USD per person per day for Mini-Suites and below - FOR ALL SHIPS (To pre-pay your service charges, Log In to My NCL or contact your travel professional) - For bookings made on or after April 1, 2017: All PREPAID service charges will be charged the NEW price of: • $16.... - For sailings on or after April 1, 2017: All service charges PAID ONBOARD, regardless of booking date will be charged the NEW price of: • $16.... Guests sailing to Hawaii will be charged an additional 4....275% Pre Paid service charge GET Tax Are service charges across the board for all guests? All guests 3 years or older.... How do I prepay my service charges? Contact your travel professional and request that it be added to your cruise reservation.... At what point in the booking process can the prepaid charges be added? They can be added at anytime up to 24 hours prior to sailing.... Why would I prepay my service charges? The convenience of pre-paying the service charges allows you to plan your budget prior to your cruise giving you additional freedom while on board.... If I cancel my cruise are the service charges refundable? Yes! The service charges are 100% refundable.... If there is a service issue can the service charges be adjusted on board? Guest satisfaction is the highest priority at Norwegian Cruise Line.... We have structured a guest satisfaction program designed to handle any concerns about service or on-board product quickly and efficiently.... However, in the event a service issue should arise during your cruise please let our on-board guest services desk staff know right away, so that we can address these in a timely manner.... Should your concerns not be met with satisfaction you can adjust the charges.".

[NLH Arizona]

How many people find this out the night before the end of the cruise? IMVHO, NCL is causing more bad blood with the customers than it is worth.

Then I guess you are saying that most cruise lines are causing bad blood, because most do the same thing, they just call the DSC something else. Plus the majority of cruisers, who have either cruised before on NCL or any other cruise line or have done their research, know and understand what this is. IMHO, the only folks that have an issue with this, is the ones who don't want to pay it.

[ColeThornton]

I believe it was Shakespeare that once wrote "A TIP by any other name is still a TIP".

If we read the FAQ section on NCL's website, NCL goes out of its way to pat themselves on their back for not adding a TIP to their bill. We can call this their "Bait".... then later if you dig deep enough you will find their "Switch" where they charge you a Service Charge.

How many people find this out the night before the end of the cruise? IMVHO, NCL is causing more bad blood with the customers than it is worth.

 

 

It's called Marketing Language and it is prevalent in just about every major industry: airlines, hotels, cruise lines, auto sales, etc.

 

It's up to consumer to be smart about what they spend their hard earned dollars on.

 

 

Caveat Emptor.

[KeithJenner]

from NCL's FAQ section...."

What's the service charge?

 

Why is there a service charge?........

 

Just to try to avoid any confusion this may cause:

 

The person you have quoted is from the UK, and was talking about the situation for UK customers who booked after the all inclusive came in. We no longer have any dealings with the DSC for cruises booked after that time, as it is included in our fare now (plus a bit for luck).

 

The bit you have posted is, I assume, the FAQ's for US customers, so isn't relevant to the post that you quoted.

[BermudaBound2014]

Keith- you are so patient and kind. I appreciate all of the information you so politely provide. Just wanted to say thanks.

 

 

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[Moby0215]

I believe it was Shakespeare that once wrote "A TIP by any other name is still a TIP".

 

If we read the FAQ section on NCL's website, NCL goes out of its way to pat themselves on their back for not adding a TIP to their bill. We can call this their "Bait".... then later if you dig deep enough you will find their "Switch" where they charge you a Service Charge.

 

How many people find this out the night before the end of the cruise? IMVHO, NCL is causing more bad blood with the customers than it is worth.

 

 

 

I don't see where there is a bait and switch at all. Service charges are the norm almost anywhere you go. I seriously doubt there is hardly anyone who find out the last day of the cruise and if there is then that is their own fault. I see no bad blood. It is standard industry practice.

 

 

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[Ox Fan Cruiser]

Then I guess you are saying that most cruise lines are causing bad blood, because most do the same thing, they just call the DSC something else. Plus the majority of cruisers, who have either cruised before on NCL or any other cruise line or have done their research, know and understand what this is. IMHO, the only folks that have an issue with this, is the ones who don't want to pay it.

I'm talking about going out of their way in their FAQ section in saying they don't impose auto-grats but later charging a DSC....

[Ox Fan Cruiser]

I don't see where there is a bait and switch at all. Service charges are the norm almost anywhere you go. I seriously doubt there is hardly anyone who find out the last day of the cruise and if there is then that is their own fault. I see no bad blood. It is standard industry practice.

 

 

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it can and will cause heartache to those who read their self back patting where they assure you no grats are charged or expected. Most people would stop reading at that point. But if they docontinue reading they charge a DSC instead...

Just be up front... Stop playing games with the wording NCL.

[Moby0215]

it can and will cause heartache to those who read their self back patting where they assure you no grats are charged or expected. Most people would stop reading at that point. But if they docontinue reading they charge a DSC instead...

 

Just be up front... Stop playing games with the wording NCL.

 

 

 

I do not read or interpret it how you do. There is an FAQ that talks about gratuities and there is an FAQ that talks about service charge. And in the FAQ on gratuities it specifically mentions the service charge. I think it is self explanatory. I'm sorry you don't feel the same way. It's standard practice in many industries.

 

 

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[Blondie008]

I have three bookings going as far as November 18 - All were made in the UK, and all before the new All Inclusive Programme was introduced.

I do- and always did, book my cruises without prepaying the grats AT THE TIME OF BOOKING - however - what I do, is simply go into My NCL account - and at some random time when it suits me - I pre pay my gratuities. The cost for pre paying in the UK is only £8.50 per person per day. That's a much better exchange rate than waiting to pay the $13.50 when on board. OP - you can pay that at any time during the period between making your reservation right up until a few days before your cruise.

We also, when we cruise - tip staff over and above who help make our day in some small way - No we are not super loaded. But we can afford to cruise - and we exchange a couple of hundred in small $$ notes to "share the love". What we don't use we simply put back in the cruise wallet for the next time.

 

I have to say when we were on the Jade TA in November 16 - I was embarrassed by the amount of British (and I mean Scots and English) who were mouthing off about not paying their DSC. The service and hard work on that cruise was faultless.:o

May Karma do her deed ;)

[KeithJenner]

I'm talking about going out of their way in their FAQ section in saying they don't impose auto-grats but later charging a DSC....

 

 

 

Out of interest, as I can't easily access the US FAQs these days, can you cut and paste the bit where it says they don't impose auto-grats.

 

I'm not disputing anything, but I don't recall that bit.

[caneable]

Well said Blondie 008! Agree with you 100%.

We have also taken to pre-paying our charges for about 3 years now. With the pound crash it made very good sense.

Now that we have all inclusive I wonder how long it will be before we get Brits on CC boards complaining that they are teetotal and object to paying other people's bar bills. With some people the cruise lines can never get this one right.

[BaWBarmy]

Well said Blondie 008! Agree with you 100%.

We have also taken to pre-paying our charges for about 3 years now. With the pound crash it made very good sense.

Now that we have all inclusive I wonder how long it will be before we get Brits on CC boards complaining that they are teetotal and object to paying other people's bar bills. With some people the cruise lines can never get this one right.

 

To be fair, they sort of are.

 

We have a 10 day cruise booked for November, we booked it last November and as usual quite happily pre-paid the DSC. We took the UBP as one of our Free at Sea deals. The price was great. Winding forward my in laws contacted us last week saying they wished to cruise with us. We were straight onto the NCL website and were shocked at the prices under the new Premium All Inclusive deal. I appreciate that the DSC and Port taxes etc. are included and that's fine BUT the exact same cruise is now double what we paid for it. We can only assume that this is down to the drinks, you cannot choose not to have it included so unless our in laws plan to stay inebriated for the entirety of the cruise, they are sort of funding our freebie UBP, well they would be if they were prepared to pay the price, which they're not. Any UK or European cruiser with NCL is now paying for the package, and, like it or not, that is funding those who still have the opportunity to get it for free as a promo.

[KeithJenner]

Almost everyone has been effectively paying for the beverage package for a few years now. When free at sea came in, it coincided with a general increase in fares. People have been complaining for years about paying for other peoples drinks.

 

Those of us who had bar bills at the end of the cruise have found the overall cost of cruises to be very similar to what it was before free at sea came in. Those who don't drink have been experiencing this issue for years now.

 

I think that the price increases that people are seeing these days with all inclusive are mainly down to the exchange rate movements and NCL just taking the excuse to put prices up. I've said it many times, and I'll say it again. Never encourage a supplier to change the basis of how they charge you. Unless they are crazy they will take the opportunity to put the prices up.

 

In this case, I think NCL are right to do so to an extent, as they didn't react to the exchange rate movements last year. Your example of the price doubling is an extreme one from what I have seen, and as you are looking at the same cruise but big differences in booking dates, it's difficult to say how much is caused by all inclusive. I've looked at some cruises that I've done in previous years, and compared to how much they would cost to book for next year. For example, we did the Epic last Spring, and the current price for the same itinerary is 18% more now. That is based on very similar booking dates, and that is the sort of increase that I've generally found.

 

Given the exchange rate movements, that probably isn't too bad an increase over two years, but I'm sure there is something in it for NCL as well.