Greenwich instead of Tower Bridge for JR 2018 - disappointment!

[Mrs Miggins]

A publication"Londons River" in 2015 gives the maximum length of cruise ships allowed at The Tower Bridge terminal as158 metres. This rather begs the question why was Tower Bridge ever on the itinerary unless Azamara had some special concession, which seems unlikely.

[excitedofharpenden]

A publication"Londons River" in 2015 gives the maximum length of cruise ships allowed at The Tower Bridge terminal as158 metres. This rather begs the question why was Tower Bridge ever on the itinerary unless Azamara had some special concession, which seems unlikely.

 

To be fair Azamara have docked near Tower Bridge before a few years ago. The way it was explained to me was that subsequently some mooring points were taken out and they would need to have been put back to enable an Azamara ship to dock there again. Below is a picture of Journey moored just down from the bridge.

 

Phil

 

 

 

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[donaldsc]

You can get from the Tower Bridge to Greenwich by public transport in 33 minutes. If you insist on arriving at the Tower Bridge by boat, you can take the Thames Clipper from Greenwich to the Tower bridge. I don't see what the big deal is unless complaining is now a necessary part of cruising.

 

DON

[takemewithyou]

I don't know....been following along....think the OP has a right to complain and those that do not agree don't have to read this thread. It is easy.....justdon't click on this thread anymore! :eek: :D

[Just Plain Jazz]

To be fair, I think it is disingenuous of Viking River cruises to claim they dock in Paris when they actually dock in the suburb of Le Pecq -- and I think this is quite the same with Azamara hyping the Tower Bridge in the name of the itinerary when they knew they couldn't dock there. Greenwich is NOT London, Le Pecq is NOT Paris, and Asbury Park is NOT Granada [sinatra].

[uktog]

To be fair, I think it is disingenuous of Viking River cruises to claim they dock in Paris when they actually dock in the suburb of Le Pecq -- and I think this is quite the same with Azamara hyping the Tower Bridge in the name of the itinerary when they knew they couldn't dock there. Greenwich is NOT London, Le Pecq is NOT Paris, and Asbury Park is NOT Granada [sinatra].

 

 

 

And White Bay Sydney is NOT under Sydney harbour bridge. Azamara world cruise does not go between the two bridges as was much advertised. Too much of Azamara's advertising and blogs and twits are hype these days. They would regain my respect if they went back to straight forward factual marketing

 

 

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[marinaro44]

I don't know....been following along....think the OP has a right to complain and those that do not agree don't have to read this thread. It is easy.....justdon't click on this thread anymore! :eek: :D

Just as the OP has a "right" to complain anyone else has a "right" to read this thread and disagree.

[Riocca]

To be fair Azamara have docked near Tower Bridge before a few years ago. The way it was explained to me was that subsequently some mooring points were taken out and they would need to have been put back to enable an Azamara ship to dock there again. Below is a picture of Journey moored just down from the bridge.

 

Phil

 

 

 

Correct Phil, we are on Quest at the moment and this was confirmed when I asked the question, I think there was some hope the moorings would be replaced but with the building of the new Cruise Terminal at Greenwich it didn't happen.

 

 

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[Mrs Miggins]

I do know that Azamara have Azamara have previously docked at Tower Bridge, in 2010 possibly. My understanding is that the rules for maximum size have changed since then. The Port of London current website is quite clear about the maximum size allowed which does not allow ships of this size. I was interested to find the measurements in print before this year and after a cursory search did find them specified in 2015.

I am a great fan of Greenwich but I do understand the disappointment of the OP. Incidentally the Greenwich Cruise Terminal is not likely to happen for some years. Local opposition plus financial constraints. However the moorings were extended in Greenwich to allow Viking to arrive in 2015. I understand it was the biggest cruise ship to sail through the Thames Barrier. We have seen them here several times.

 

I would be really disappointed to learn that the Tower Bridge rules have been known to Azamara for a very long time and their advertising of this cruise has been a cynical ploy.

[excitedofharpenden]

I do know that Azamara have Azamara have previously docked at Tower Bridge, in 2010 possibly. My understanding is that the rules for maximum size have changed since then. The Port of London current website is quite clear about the maximum size allowed which does not allow ships of this size. I was interested to find the measurements in print before this year and after a cursory search did find them specified in 2015.

I am a great fan of Greenwich but I do understand the disappointment of the OP. Incidentally the Greenwich Cruise Terminal is not likely to happen for some years. Local opposition plus financial constraints. However the moorings were extended in Greenwich to allow Viking to arrive in 2015. I understand it was the biggest cruise ship to sail through the Thames Barrier. We have seen them here several times.

 

I would be really disappointed to learn that the Tower Bridge rules have been known to Azamara for a very long time and their advertising of this cruise has been a cynical ploy.

Pam, it's not so much rules changing, but the fact that the mooring points that were there have now gone and not replaced so Journey can't physically stay by Tower Bridge. I think Riocca is right that the new Greenwich Cruise Terminal development that will allow larger ships there and changes to the present mooring have taken precedent.

 

Phil

[excitedofharpenden]

And White Bay Sydney is NOT under Sydney harbour bridge. Azamara world cruise does not go between the two bridges as was much advertised. Too much of Azamara's advertising and blogs and twits are hype these days. They would regain my respect if they went back to straight forward factual marketing

This is my feeling too. Those who read this board know I'm a fan of Azamara, but it seems to have lost some of its autonomy and the marketing strategy to me looks like a much bigger hand from its parent. Probably a reflection of a push toward increasing revenue which I can't blame them for, but it needs to be done in a transparent manner. General pricing increase demonstrates the same and has got out of hand.

 

Phil

[Marmaduke]

The dock along side Sydney Harbour Bridge is certainly more convenient but if berthed in White Bay you get to sail under the Bridge on leaving Sydney.

[Mrs Miggins]

Hi Phil,

I think there is very likely to be a long long wait for a permanent Cruise Terminal in Greenwich. Meanwhile it will be a large tent outside the Tourist Information Centre, actually a very scenic location.

 

Apparently the smaller cruise ships now dock at Tower Bridge next to HMS Belfast. Not sure how that works exactly. Do passengers exit via The Belfast ?

 

You know I love Azamara but I believe that they have known for a long time that Tower Bridge was impossible for them now.

 

As you know earlier this year we were on a cruise that featured Carcassone on the itinerary. We were actually in Port Vendres and the initial timings did not allow any possibility to visit Carcassone which was a nearly two hour coach trip away. There were lots of questions and upset over this and in the end our port times were extended and a 9 hour shore excursion was offered. I guess in the end they do listen if a solution is within their own operation.

Pam

[fairbourne]

....

Hi Phil,

I think there is very likely to be a long long wait for a permanent Cruise Terminal in Greenwich. Meanwhile it will be a large tent outside the Tourist Information Centre, actually a very scenic location.

 

Yes I agree! Right by the Cutty Sark and if disembarking early in the morning, you will find yourself admiring this sail ship all by yourself! It is a very short embark/disembark and luggage is taken off to the tent (marquee size) with lots of porters available. This was our experience when we disembarked from Viking Sky this summer. They use the Thames commuter boats for transfers, all very smooth and much easier to get in and out of than the ship's tenders. The ship had set up tea and coffee for the arrivees also in the tent.

 

Apparently the smaller cruise ships now dock at Tower Bridge next to HMS Belfast. Not sure how that works exactly. Do passengers exit via The Belfast ?

 

Ponant have a very short cruise that leaves from Tower Bridge next year - you embark at the Millenium Cruise pier (adjacent to the Tower of London) and are taken by tender to the ship via HMS Belfast. There are no cruise ship passengers facilities to embark directly via HMS Belfast. So from what I understand you walk through HMS Belfast to get onto the ship. The Ponant ship will actually be tied up to HMS Belfast and I believe is one of the largest ships, although for a cruise ship it is "small", to now be able to go this far up the Thames. (In case anyone hurries over to have a look, this cruise is fully booked!)

I'm not sure how much longer, if at all, Viking will go to Greenwich as the cost to go through the Thames Barrier is so huge! I think they are using Tilbury which is definitely not London! (Cost £200,000 for a ship the size of Viking Sky.). It's the same as saying Southampton for London which cruise lines have done for years and years!

You know I love Azamara but I believe that they have known for a long time that Tower Bridge was impossible for them now.

 

I would think so. I'm disappointed for the OP, as to book a cruise for certain reasons which are very important to them and sailing through Tower Bridge when they have to raise the bridge is certainly very special - how certain should an embarkation point actually be! I've read all the "failings" of Azamara home office recently and we are about to go on our first Azamara cruise and I'm holding on to the fact that you all say the onboard experience is so wonderful. If I had read all of this before we booked, I would have thought twice and probably not booked. I can't be the only one thinking this!

We loved Greenwich - sipping our champagne on the top deck of Viking Sky listening to Alfie Boe and Michael Ball singing in the background - fabulous! What a view of London - all the sights in the round, literally!

As you know earlier this year we were on a cruise that featured Carcassone on the itinerary. We were actually in Port Vendres and the initial timings did not allow any possibility to visit Carcassone which was a nearly two hour coach trip away. There were lots of questions and upset over this and in the end our port times were extended and a 9 hour shore excursion was offered. I guess in the end they do listen if a solution is within their own operation.

Pam

[uktog]

The dock along side Sydney Harbour Bridge is certainly more convenient but if berthed in White Bay you get to sail under the Bridge on leaving Sydney.

 

 

 

But it's a lousy location to overnight in.

 

 

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[tazza_0712]

But it's a lousy location to overnight in.

 

 

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It is a bit lousy, when compared to the alternative of Circular Quay. As a Sydney local, I won’t mind the overnight at White Bay next February, though I would have much preferred the other location especially for first time visitors to this city.

 

 

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[Mrs Miggins]

Fairbourne, you will love Azamara. Ships not as beautiful as Viking but in my experience your fellow cruisers will be friendlier and often more experienced ocean cruisers.

 

We are on Viking Star for New Year and Azamara for a back to back next June. A fantastic combination. :)

[fairbourne]

Thank you Mrs Miggins! The Viking ships are beautiful - we were on the Sky's christening voyage so had the Hagen family on board with Finse!

 

Legend has it that there are those who have booked a Viking ocean cruise believing that they had in fact booked a river cruise and only found out when they arrived at the ship :eek: .......... There were quite a few first time ocean cruisers on our voyage but many of them were experienced river cruisers. We've not yet done a river cruise - never say never!

 

 

Enjoy your cruises, sound wonderful!

[Bloodaxe]

To be fair Azamara have docked near Tower Bridge before a few years ago. The way it was explained to me was that subsequently some mooring points were taken out and they would need to have been put back to enable an Azamara ship to dock there again. Below is a picture of Journey moored just down from the bridge.

 

Phil

 

 

 

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I also have a copy of this photo. According to my records it was taken has long ago has June 2008.

Not sure if that was the only time Journey moored near Tower Bridge.

Has I said in my earlier post we moored at Greenwich in June 2009.

[LuAnn]

I also have a copy of this photo. According to my records it was taken has long ago has June 2008.

Not sure if that was the only time Journey moored near Tower Bridge.

Has I said in my earlier post we moored at Greenwich in June 2009.

 

We were on this cruise and 2008 sounds right! I'll have to pull out DH's journals to double check as the year we took certain cruises isn't always remembered anymore!! :eek: Those journals have helped many times! We certainly had a thrill sailing up the river and "parking" right there!! LuAnn

[Globehoppers]

Humans are not perfect. We make mistakes and omissions. And changes are not always updated in a timely manner.

 

Several years ago I informed AZ that their brochure map of the world, the places they visit, had misplaced a port on the incorrect continent! Acknowledgement received and it was corrected for the following year. Errors happen.

 

Have a worse beef with AZ/RCCL IT folks. The AZ website has been horrible and very difficult and clunky to use for YEARS. Their IT folks are likely paid 3 times what the reservation staff is paid. Yet, problems go uncorrected. It was only yesterday that I attempted to make a reservation for a M&G and was "informed" that I didn't exist. So I tried the back door: log on with ID and password and go to excursions. What I received for an upcoming Adriatic and Sicily cruise was a list of cities for a 2019 trans-pacific cruise. This is something within the total control of AZ/RCCL IT. Sometimes get the feeling, and not just with AZ/RCCL, that IT people don't look at their work from a customer's perspective...

 

We may also want to remember that Irma forced the evacuation by ship of most of the RCCL headquarters staff in Miami. While some connectivity was maintained, disruptions like that can result in long delays getting back to "normal."

[rallydave]

Humans are not perfect. We make mistakes and omissions. And changes are not always updated in a timely manner.

 

Several years ago I informed AZ that their brochure map of the world, the places they visit, had misplaced a port on the incorrect continent! Acknowledgement received and it was corrected for the following year. Errors happen.

 

Have a worse beef with AZ/RCCL IT folks. The AZ website has been horrible and very difficult and clunky to use for YEARS. Their IT folks are likely paid 3 times what the reservation staff is paid. Yet, problems go uncorrected. It was only yesterday that I attempted to make a reservation for a M&G and was "informed" that I didn't exist. So I tried the back door: log on with ID and password and go to excursions. What I received for an upcoming Adriatic and Sicily cruise was a list of cities for a 2019 trans-pacific cruise. This is something within the total control of AZ/RCCL IT. Sometimes get the feeling, and not just with AZ/RCCL, that IT people don't look at their work from a customer's perspective...

 

We may also want to remember that Irma forced the evacuation by ship of most of the RCCL headquarters staff in Miami. While some connectivity was maintained, disruptions like that can result in long delays getting back to "normal."

 

You are correct about being human and making mistakes; the problem is that most of us learn from our mistakes and try to improve and not make the same mistake again. The problem with azamara is that their "mistakes" appear to be on going without any apology and then continue again and again. The sign of a proactive company that cares about their customers is continued improvement. With azamara, management appears indifferent to their mistakes and continues to make more and more of them with the appearance of "intentional" mistakes!

 

Really amazing considering the on board do almost anything for their customers attitude compared to the home office attitude.

[Mrs Miggins]

Just walked the dog down through Greenwich Park to the river. The cruise ship Europa is in town. Greenwich fairly busy with mature tourists plus lots of lovely school parties, including a large group from Spain. The Royal Naval College was busy as it is Registration day for new students for the University. Weather damp and misty, but yesterday it was beautiful with the Autumn colours starting on the trees.

[almostnewtocruise]

As the OP of this thread I can only say that I'm glad I started it ..

No idea if it will change anything (probably not), but the things had to be brought to light and discussed.

To sum it up (as I see it): From all that has been written here, the conclusion can only be that while Azamara indeed had docked by the Tower Bridge in the past, probably even as late as 2012 (Olympics, Azjoy), it has been well known for many years now (at least 2015, Mrs Miggins) that ships of its size are not allowed there. Therefore even the first announcement by Azamara of this itinerary seems clearly like an "intentional mistake". (sounds nicer than "deception")

The correction of this "mistake" on Azamara website, when it eventually happened, was done just recently - in September 2017.

(and I am not even going to mention again that some of us had to hear it for the first time on the CC threads and not directly from Az or our TAs. )

 

As to the complaints (by some) about me complaining..

Let me just say this. We all choose the things we are ready to accept with a smile or a philosophical shrug as "one of those things that just happen in life"- as opposed to the things we think are worth complaining about and battling against.

I seem to remember threads with serious "issues" about what kinds of rosé and sparkling wines (or was it sparkling water?) were or were not included in the "complementary list". Well.. as important as those seemed to be for some (no disrespect!) , I promise I will never have anything to say on those topics. I too know (when it suits me) how to smile and shrug.

But just show me an open deception and lack of transparency - and here I go... complaining again!

Sorry. :)

 

miriam

[BBMacLaird]

I also have a copy of this photo. According to my records it was taken has long ago has June 2008.

Not sure if that was the only time Journey moored near Tower Bridge.

Has I said in my earlier post we moored at Greenwich in June 2009.

 

It must be an old photo...the hull is still white!