Out of all the cut backs over the years, what is the one thing ...

[ABoatNerd]

All the mass cruise lines are focused on low entry price (except suites), boozing up passengers (while cutting back staff to avoid actually providing the product) and add on revenue generation. In general it is working based on the consumer response.

 

To be frank, John Q Public is not interested in good food, service - but they are on cheap booze and trinkets and ship board distractions.

 

The number of consumers who are willing to pay for the previous quality product which was provided on the mass lines are moving on to the premium lines or booking suites on the mass lines at a very high price. I have moved from Celebrity to Oceania.

 

HAL has chosen to compete with Princess and Celebrity but will not be that successful.

 

Because of HALs focus on longer voyages like Cunard and Oceania, HAL could more agressively choose to compete with both - HAL could ditch the older ships and keep a smallish fleet. Make the focus "educational travel experience" with top tier lecturers and almost Oceania quality food and service levels. Meaning blurr the "premium" to widen the offerings in that category; currently only Oceania, Azamara, Viking.

 

I agree with posters on all the boards - the cruise lines like any other company have to attract younger consumers. But younger consumers are not homogenous. My niece is an intellectual - she would not set foot on a Carnival, RCL, Celebrity, Princess.

 

In selling there are 2 basic strategies - compete on price or on product offering differentiation.

 

HAL has chosen price.

[sail7seas]

Started sailing HAL in the 1980's Sail.

 

Was on the old N Amsterdam and the Rotterdam back then in the 80's if my memory serves.

 

 

'I'm surprised you don't rremem b er the suite dinners. They held them on every cruise including 7 days. We always went and enjoyed them. I have very clear memory of them and am sure others here must, also. :)

[JRG]

Since we are reminiscing......

 

We started sailing around the turn of the century....and I'd like to see a return to the swimsuit optional sun-bathing on the top deck.

[sail7seas]

[ posted by : A Boat Nerd

 

 

To be frank, John Q Public is not interested in good food, service - but they are on cheap booze and trinkets and ship board distractions.

 

 

Where did you get the idea we 'all' want what you descirbe? I must challenge that assumption .

 

I am Josephine Q. Public and very interested in good food and have no interest in more cheap trinkets. I am ready to empty my house of things,, not load it with more 'stuff'. I most definitely do not want 'cheap liquor' I want good quality food,good variety, prepared well and served appropriately. I know there are many others who share that wish..

Edited January 19, 2018 by sail7seas

[navybankerteacher]

Where did you get the idea we 'all' want what you descirbe? I must challenge that assumption .

 

I am Josephine Q. Public and very interested in good food and have no interest in more cheap trinkets. I am ready to empty my house of things,, not load it with more 'stuff'. I most definitely do not want 'cheap liquor' I want good quality food,good variety, prepared well and served appropriately.

 

I agree with you - but we do have to acknowledge that HAL does seem to be pursuing the bargain hunter who is more interested in low price than high quality --- which development is what we are discussing here.

[iancal]

We typically buy cruises inside the final payment window.

 

That does not imply that we are not willing to pay more for a premium experience. We are.

 

 

But we are certainly not willing to pay more for a HAL experience. We do no not see any significant differerences in a HAl experience compared with the othe mass market lines. Rather than pricing at a premium we see HAL starting to price at a discount to those competitors on certain itineraries. We suspect this is due to the market perception of some HAL ships and itineraries.

[sail7seas]

I agree with you - but we do have to acknowledge that HAL does seem to be pursuing the bargain hunter who is more interested in low price than high quality --- which development is what we are discussing here.

 

 

 

Yes, I see your point but have to add that in the process of them pursuing the bargain hunters, they are pushing away the person willing to pay for quality. As a solo, I am not willing to pay their solo occupancy fares many more times. and get an ordinary (at bestt) product. That is too much to pay f or 'okay'. I want better than that. I lilkely will stop cruising before I will sail Crystal, Seabourn or Oceania. that is not on my 'wish listThough those are the rates i pay, It would cost me no more and maybe less t o sail those lines But . Idon't wish to sail those cruise lines. HAL was my ' comfort zone. I seem to be questioning if that is enough to attract me ba ck aboard.

Edited January 19, 2018 by sail7seas

[iancal]

There is a misperception. by some that HAL is a premium cruise line.

 

It isn't, and it has not been for quite some time. The marketplace decided that several years ago. HAL has not done anything to counter that. The opposite is the reality.

[kazu]

We typically buy cruises inside the final payment window.

 

That does not imply that we are not willing to pay more for a premium experience. We are.

 

 

But we are certainly not willing to pay more for a HAL experience. We do no not see any significant differerences in a HAl experience compared with the othe mass market lines. Rather than pricing at a premium we see HAL starting to price at a discount to those competitors on certain itineraries. We suspect this is due to the market perception of some HAL ships and itineraries.

 

But, for those of us who do cruise for itinerary, HAL is still the best option IMO. I have looked and find nothing to compare to a couple of the Prinsendam cruises I have done or have upcoming. Our experience on that ship has been good - better than the other ships - so we shall see on the 4th sailing.

 

But, the bottom line is...they were the only one doing this itinerary. One of the pluses of some HAL cruises. ;)

 

There is a misperception. by some that HAL is a premium cruise line.

 

It isn't, and it has not been for quite some time. The marketplace decided that several years ago. HAL has not done anything to counter that. The opposite is the reality.

 

Agree. It's not but some ships still have the touches and some very good food.

 

Here's my take on it. The more expensive, exotic itineraries offer better food than the typical 7 day Caribbean cruise. They don't seem to have to give the "exotic, different" itineraries away and I think that translates into better food and services.

 

I could be wrong of course. I often am, but that has been our experience so far.

 

Crossing my fingers (yn) it's right this time for the upcoming cruise.

[iancal]

We have one differerence to more experienced HAL cruisers. We tend not to do any itineries that exceed 20/21 days.

 

Many of the unique HAL itineries we tend to do by independent land travel because we typically want more time in certain areas than the cruise itinerary permits.

 

This is our fourth winter in SE Asia. We keep looking for cruises to add on to our land travels but none hit the mark for us. They either dock too far from where we want to go, go where we have been, or not go to places we have not been. We are finding the same European cruises-not just HAL. We can now travel for longer periods of time since retiring. Lately we have replaced Caibbean and Mexican cruises with five/six star AI's. They are often more expensive but from our perspective they are offering better value.

Edited January 20, 2018 by iancal

[sammiedawg]

Five or ten years ago Carnival Corporation slotted their products and decided to take the older fleet of Holland America downmarket. From a marketing and business perspective it is extremely unlikely that they can change course.

We saw the decline in food, service, ship condition starting 7-8 years ago. We’ve always sailed other lines so we have had perspective.

Some loyalists here want HAL to compete with premium brands. We see a huge gap. It won’t happen.

Some here say they are paying big money to sail HAL, if so they are spending wayyyy too much for a middlin product.

HAL is a good value for someone to see the world inexpensively.

[kenphy]

#1: The warm/hot hors d'oeuvres served in all of the Lounges during scheduled Happy Hour times as well as during the hours prior to all seating times for Dinner without having to expect the guest requesting such. THIS IS MY BIGGEST MISS -

 

#2: A Welcome On-Board Program during the first Gala Night where the Captain introduces his Senior Officers. THEY DID THIS LAST TWO CRUISES in 2015 and 2016

 

#3: The Disembarkation Speech by the Cruise Director can surely be dispensed with. But, the Farewell "show" from the Cruise Staff and the available (maybe assigned) crew has always made an indelible impression on my travelling companions and me. I've seen tears from fellow guests leaving these presentations and I will admit that my eyes have been more than moist as well. LOVED IT, TOO

 

#4: Holland is noted for its flowers. The reduced public displays of floral creations, as well as the rather unusual (probably very modern, I suppose) flower arrangements is something that I have noticed.

 

#5: A Pinnacle Grill issue: Grass fed beef, currently served in the PG, is no where near the quality of taste, in my opinion, as the Sterling Silver Beef that previously had been served. The entire PG experience currently does not meet what those specialty restaurants provided (and the name for those restaurants escapes me right now) when they were introduced on the ships. EVEN THOUGH WE ARE GOING TO PINNACLE THIS COMING CRUISE WITH OUR PARTY OF 18 TO CELEBRATE OUR 50th ANNIVERSARY, WE WOULD NOT GO ON ANY FUTURE CRUISE -- NO LONGER WORTH IT,

 

#6: Upon embarking, there would be a Supervisor from some Department welcoming one aboard. There would be a line of Stewards near. He would then direct one to take my carry-on and escort me to my stateroom. OH - THE GOOD OLD DAYS -- ON OUR FIRST HAL CRUISE in 1983, THEY EVEN TOOK MY PURSE

 

#7: An unrestricted and no extra cost (other than for alcoholic drinks) for Breakfast items Room Service Menu.

 

Phyllis and Ken in SC

[sail7seas]

Phyllis and Ken in SC

Neptune and Pinnacle Suites provide unrestricted ited no exrtra cost , but for optional tip, room service breakfast

[ChinaShrek]

Some here say they are paying big money to sail HAL, if so they are spending wayyyy too much for a middlin product.

HAL is a good value for someone to see the world inexpensively.

 

I agree 100% with this. I have chosen to sail HAL in Europe because they are far cheaper than Royal Caribbean, Princess, or Celebrity on similar 7, 12, or 14-day itineraries.

[Aurora95]

Dutch Night

 

 

 

That was fun, and unique to HAL.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[HoneyGV]

I would LOVE for HAL to bring back cruises out of Cocoa Beach, FL

[kenphy]

Neptune and Pinnacle Suites provide unrestricted ited no exrtra cost , but for optional tip, room service breakfast

 

 

 

Room service breakfast (especially on disembarkation day) is one of the main reasons we cruise HAL and got spoiled eight cruises ago in a Neptune. Won’t go back. Love the mimosa addition, too

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Forums

[navybankerteacher]

All the mass cruise lines are focused on low entry price ...

 

...

 

I agree with posters on all the boards - the cruise lines like any other company have to attract younger consumers. But younger consumers are not homogenous. My niece is an intellectual - she would not set foot on a Carnival, RCL, Celebrity, Princess.

 

In selling there are 2 basic strategies - compete on price or on product offering differentiation.

 

HAL has chosen price.

 

HAL did not necessarily "...have to attract younger consumers...". They decided they had to attract more cruisers - and yesterday's "younger consumers" are, in fact, today's mature consumers. There is a continuing supply of grown ups - what HAL decided to do was try to expand numbers by lowering prices - which meant lowering quality. Had they considered maintaining quality (and necessarily adjusting prices) they could have competed for the grown ups instead of surrendering them to the distinct premium lines.

 

In a short-sighted grab for short-term revenue growth they gave up their valuable niche as the only premium mass market line.

[cruisemom42]

 

In a short-sighted grab for short-term revenue growth they gave up their valuable niche as the only premium mass market line.

 

I think that's only part of the story though. HAL has kept too many ships (IMO), thus they have a lot of berths to fill. They cannot financially survive without lowering prices if the alternative means they sail much below full occupancy.

 

Also, while HAL may at one time have been "the only" premium mass market line, other lines have not stood still. Celebrity in particular has introduced many elements on their newer ships that put them into that category: including better specialty dining options, better suite options, and a contemporary modern upscale design across the fleet.

[Copper10-8]

I would LOVE for HAL to bring back cruises out of Cocoa Beach, FL

 

New Orleans, LA; Baltimore, MD, Norfolk, VA, Port Canaveral, FL are all ports that HAL used to operate from at one time but, for the life of me, I can't remember them ever sailing from Cocoa Bch unless you're talking about Port Canaveral and Cocoa Beach being one and the same :confused:

[Sea girl 23]

Where did you get the idea we 'all' want what you descirbe? I must challenge that assumption .

 

I am Josephine Q. Public and very interested in good food and have no interest in more cheap trinkets. I am ready to empty my house of things,, not load it with more 'stuff'. I most definitely do not want 'cheap liquor' I want good quality food,good variety, prepared well and served appropriately. I know there are many others who share that wish..

 

I usually ask for the "better' liquors in my drinks..at my own expense I might add..some of us have our little luxuries that are essential.:D

[navybankerteacher]

New Orleans, LA; Baltimore, MD, Norfolk, VA, Port Canaveral, FL are all ports that HAL used to operate from at one time but, for the life of me, I can't remember them ever sailing from Cocoa Bch unless you're talking about Port Canaveral and Cocoa Beach being one and the same :confused:

 

I sailed Noordam out of New York to the Caribbean in January 2007 and in 2008: that was a great way to escape the northeast winter.

 

Now, of course, that market is dominated by Royal Caribbean's monster of the seas out of Bayonne - and the bottom-of-the barrel NCL out of Manhattan.

 

Amazing to me that such a huge potential winter market has been ceded: the many millions of potential cruisers who live within a few easy/inexpensive hours from New York ports surely should be able to support a little more variety.

[Copper10-8]

I sailed Noordam out of New York to the Caribbean in January 2007 and in 2008: that was a great way to escape the northeast winter.

 

Now, of course, that market is dominated by Royal Caribbean's monster of the seas out of Bayonne - and the bottom-of-the barrel NCL out of Manhattan.

 

Amazing to me that such a huge potential winter market has been ceded: the many millions of potential cruisers who live within a few easy/inexpensive hours from New York ports surely should be able to support a little more variety.

 

New York City is still a stop on HAL's repo cruises south to Ft. Lauderdale but, you're right, NY is another ex-home port for HAL. The Canada-New England as well as the Bermuda cruises used to start from there also but Boston has taken over

[iancal]

It is all about change and that implies continuous capital investment.

 

Just take a look at Celebrity's investment in both the number of new ships and where they have been built over the past 10 years. Add to that their innovation in ship design and amenities.

 

Then compare that to HAL's record of capital investment in ships and innovation in the same period.

[*Miss G*]

I think caution is a good thing in the current times.