Out of all the cut backs over the years, what is the one thing ...

[HokiePoq]

You would bring back if you could?

I would love to see them sail from Norfolk Va again.

Also the Dam Dollars. I sure enjoyed them.

 

I didn't know they'd ever sailed from Norfolk. That would be fantastic for me, too.

I was getting ready to say Dam Dollars. They were lots of fun and the pins are annoying after you already have one.

Know this is an older thread but missed it the first time and am glad someone revived it.

[navybankerteacher]

I didn't know they'd ever sailed from Norfolk. That would be fantastic for me, too.

I was getting ready to say Dam Dollars. They were lots of fun and the pins are annoying after you already have one.

Know this is an older thread but missed it the first time and am glad someone revived it.

 

Yes, I sailed Maasdam from Norfolk to the Caribbean in 2005. I suppose only a few sailings from a particular port is not as easy for the line - but more regular sailings from Norfolk, New York and Boston would be great - eliminating the hassle/cost of air travel.

[pnkandpurple]

Would love to see more west coast departures, the three hour time difference to fly to the east coast is a killer for departures. Can't get a early enough flight to get there for embarkation.

[Ladybentley]

I last cruised on Holland America (NIEUW AMSTERDAM) in 2011, my second cruise in her. Previous trips were in ROTTERDAM (59), MAASDAM (twice) and EURODAM. Won't be going back.

 

Why? Because everything I liked about HAL has been methodically removed. I liked it precisely because it offered a good, traditional cruise experience without the noise, the mindless blaring music on the open decks and in every space, the stupid pool games, the jumbotrons and the relentless pandering to millennials of the other lines. I liked the silver service, the elegant place settings, the teak decks and wood steamer chairs, the chance to be near and smell and hear the sea, not blaring music. I liked the Dutch and Indonesian traditions. Dressing for dinner. The library. And being treated like an adult who didn't have to have things done to, at or for me 24/7. I liked an ocean holiday not a week at a theme park. I liked that it offered real value for money as a good, honest middle of the road product.

 

Frankly, I don't want to give my vacation dollar to a company that views me and what I value in a holiday (and once derived from that company) as a old fuddy duddy as it goes through a bigger mid-life crisis than I ever did. The fact that HAL is run by a man who never ever set foot on a cruise ship before pretty much sums it up. HAL has no idea what it wants to be, I just am content not to be there while it's finding out. The idea that every company has to "attract new customers" by completely altering its product and thus offending its loyal customer base is... a recipe for disaster.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

You'vesummed up our feelings perfectly. We used to love the traditional feel andambience of HAL ships. But our last cruises have shown that HAL is enacting aprogram of "death by a thousand cuts". Nearly all the things we lovedhave gone or are going - the wrap around decks where you could sit by the sea,the libraries and open spaces of the Explorations café, the relaxing excellentservice at dinner while string music was played, the great art works, the traditionalDutch and Indonesian food (do they still serve pea soup on deck while cruisingin Glacier Bay?), the feeling of being served rather than being pressured tobuy, buy, buy! If I had to nominate one thing, it would be the demise of thetraditional afternoon tea, in particular the wonderful Royal Dutch andIndonesian teas. We so enjoyed those but now afternoon tea is served in a barand when I requested a fruit tea as I've always done, it was refused. When Iasked why, I was told it was a directive from Seattle. That made us wonder justhow many more petty cutbacks can Seattle come up with. We didn't go back toanother afternoon tea and now, having taken one or two cruises for years, wedon't intend to go back to HAL either.

 

IfHAL thinks that losing us will be more than compensated by gaining a youngerdemographic then they may be in for a surprise. Our son and his family alsoloved the traditional feel of the old HAL and aren't interested in booking acruise on a sell, sell, sell, theme park style resort ship. Our daughter andher husband accompanied us on their first HAL cruise last year and weredisappointed with the shabby cabins, broken toilets, non-functioningair-conditioning and general poor service. They won't be back either. It's sucha shame but clearly Seattle doesn't want our custom.

 

 

 

 

[USN59-79]

We have cruised a lot since 2002; 5 Star on HAL and Elite on Princess. Have a total of 319 days on Amsterdam and 65 on Prinsendam. Our last cruise was 32 days on the Diamond Princess and our next one is 28 days on the Majestic Princess. On our last two cruises on Amsterdam (half World Cruises) we had to move out of our cabin; first from an insect infestation and the second from a water leak within the wall. The cabin we moved to had no heat when we were in Korea and Northern China in February when the outside temperature was in the 20s. It was about 40 degrees in the cabin for three days. This is on a Grand Voyage on their so-called "Flagship". We have had no similar problems with Princess. When we left the 2017 WC, the DW said "No more Holland America cruises." I agree.

[iancal]

HAL remains us of one of those big, old department stores.

 

One that fails to adapt to changing markets. One that cuts staff, reduces inventory/selection and closes locations. Eventually the only value left in the company is the real estate and/or the real estate leases. The goodwill is long gone.

 

Then one day they are gone. Everyone is left wondering why they did not read the tea leaves and implement change before it was too late. Like the others did.

 

Truly hope that this is not HAL's fate.

[ChinaShrek]

HAL remains us of one of those big, old department stores.

 

One that fails to adapt to changing markets. One that cuts staff, reduces inventory/selection and closes locations. Eventually the only value left in the company is the real estate and/or the real estate leases. The goodwill is long gone.

 

Then one day they are gone. Everyone is left wondering why they did not read the tea leaves and implement change before it was too late. Like the others did.

 

 

But they are implementing changes. They are making larger ships. They are taking out the libraries. They partnered with Oprah. It seems (based on this thread) that many people do not like those changes. However, they couldn't attract new customers based on the old model. What should they do?

[cruisemom42]

If HAL thinks that losing us will be more than compensated by gaining a younger demographic then they may be in for a surprise. ...[ellipse]... Our daughter and her husband accompanied us on their first HAL cruise last year and were disappointed with the shabby cabins, broken toilets, non-functioning air-conditioning and general poor service. They won't be back either. It's such a shame but clearly Seattle doesn't want our custom.

 

Are you suggesting that there is ANY demographic that would be happy to put up with "shabby cabins, broken toilets, non-functioning air-conditioning and general poor service"? :confused:

 

I think therein lies the answer to ChinaShrek's question. HAL, by multiple reports, is no longer reliably doing the basic things well. For many loyal customers, continuing to provide those basic things reliably PLUS HAL's great itineraries would probably be enough.

 

However, if they wanted to make changes to compete head-on with other lines -- yes, they are starting to make some changes but they are very late to the table. The first of Celebrity's Solstice class ships, which (whether you like them or not) are widely seen as a game-changer, started service in 2008, and four more followed her before HAL's first new ship with some Solstice-type design features was launched in 2015 (Konigsdam).

[navybankerteacher]

 

 

...

 

Then one day they are gone. Everyone is left wondering why they did not read the tea leaves and implement change before it was too late. Like the others did.

 

Truly hope that this is not HAL's fate.

 

You miss the point of this thread: HAL HAS implemented change - that is the problem being discussed here. They took a product which set them apart from their competition, which earned them the loyalty of repeat customers, and they CHANGED it.

 

They decided that they wanted to compete primarily on a price basis with providers who had more bells and whistles which attract a younger demographic. They ignored the fact that, while their older repeat passengers might be dying off (as individuals), there is always a supply of older people coming along - who have the money and the time off -as well as the maturity and learned sophistication to appreciate high quality service, food, entertainment and fine touches.

 

They gave up a niche market -which they owned - and entered a price-driven mass market in which they were not able to compete.

 

If you read many of these posts (recognizing that CC members are just the tip of the iceberg) you will see that very many would be glad to pay the somewhat higher fares which would have been required to maintain the ships and on-board service which used to set HAL apart.

 

Implementing change is only a good idea only if it is change for the better.

[LMaxwell]

You miss the point of this thread: HAL HAS implemented change - that is the problem being discussed here. They took a product which set them apart from their competition, which earned them the loyalty of repeat customers, and they CHANGED it.

 

They decided that they wanted to compete primarily on a price basis with providers who had more bells and whistles which attract a younger demographic. They ignored the fact that, while their older repeat passengers might be dying off (as individuals), there is always a supply of older people coming along - who have the money and the time off -as well as the maturity and learned sophistication to appreciate high quality service, food, entertainment and fine touches.

 

They gave up a niche market -which they owned - and entered a price-driven mass market in which they were not able to compete.

 

If you read many of these posts (recognizing that CC members are just the tip of the iceberg) you will see that very many would be glad to pay the somewhat higher fares which would have been required to maintain the ships and on-board service which used to set HAL apart.

 

Implementing change is only a good idea only if it is change for the better.

 

Race to Zero

[tkwbear]

It will stay as long as Ashford is at the top:(. HAL had my loyalty, but now I have 2 booked cruises on Oceania myself.

 

I agree with you, and the comment made earlier about a blind man being in charge of an art gallery? That's him.

 

I think he must use a dartboard to make a lot of his decisions, because no rational person would make them.

 

I am very disappointed the Officer's Reception has been discontinued. That was one brief event that I always made time for. I suppose it cost too much to give frequent guests and suite passengers free drinks for 30 minutes.

 

If there are any activities on the ship during the day they are usually a yawner. I miss the games with prizes. Sure golf putting on a moving ship has a lot of luck to it, but it was fun.

 

I didn't always agree with Stein Kruise but he was a thousand times better than Ashford.

Edited January 27, 2018 by tkwbear

[johnmik1]

I agree with you, and the comment made earlier about a blind man being in charge of an art gallery? That's him.

 

I think he must use a dartboard to make a lot of his decisions, because no rational person would make them.

 

I am very disappointed the Officer's Reception has been discontinued. That was one brief event that I always made time for. I suppose it cost too much to give frequent guests and suite passengers free drinks for 30 minutes.

 

If there are any activities on the ship during the day they are usually a yawner. I miss the games with prizes. Sure golf putting on a moving ship has a lot of luck to it, but it was fun.

 

I didn't always agree with Stein Kruise but he was a thousand times better than Ashford.

I miss the poolside bbq’s.The excuse for ending them was something about food temperature,but it had to have been the cost.My wife won’t even discuss going back to HAL for another cruise. Mr Ashford is the greatest example of the Peter Principle that I have ever seen.

[erewhon]

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

You'vesummed up our feelings perfectly. We used to love the traditional feel andambience of HAL ships. But our last cruises have shown that HAL is enacting aprogram of "death by a thousand cuts". Nearly all the things we lovedhave gone or are going - the wrap around decks where you could sit by the sea,the libraries and open spaces of the Explorations café, the relaxing excellentservice at dinner while string music was played, the great art works, the traditionalDutch and Indonesian food (do they still serve pea soup on deck while cruisingin Glacier Bay?), the feeling of being served rather than being pressured tobuy, buy, buy! If I had to nominate one thing, it would be the demise of thetraditional afternoon tea, in particular the wonderful Royal Dutch andIndonesian teas. We so enjoyed those but now afternoon tea is served in a barand when I requested a fruit tea as I've always done, it was refused. When Iasked why, I was told it was a directive from Seattle. That made us wonder justhow many more petty cutbacks can Seattle come up with. We didn't go back toanother afternoon tea and now, having taken one or two cruises for years, wedon't intend to go back to HAL either.

 

IfHAL thinks that losing us will be more than compensated by gaining a youngerdemographic then they may be in for a surprise. Our son and his family alsoloved the traditional feel of the old HAL and aren't interested in booking acruise on a sell, sell, sell, theme park style resort ship. Our daughter andher husband accompanied us on their first HAL cruise last year and weredisappointed with the shabby cabins, broken toilets, non-functioningair-conditioning and general poor service. They won't be back either. It's sucha shame but clearly Seattle doesn't want our custom.

 

 

How ridiculous that you were refused the fruit tea.

 

On which ship do you experience the shabby cabins, broken toilets, non-functioning air-conditioning and general poor service?

[OBX-Cruisers]

Yes indeed the Maasdam used to sail from Norfolk and was our very first ever cruise in 2006............the LAST time they sailed from Norfolk in December of that year. HAL and the Maasdam hooked me on cruising while wife needed no such added incentive to convince her that we loved cruising on HAL. We did many more trips on HAL and two more on the Maasdam and are now 3 star Mariners.

 

We have just sailed on Eurodam and it will likely be our last HAL cruise. HAL has changed too much and it does very, very little to reward repeat cruisers until you reach the onerous 4 star and above levels

 

 

 

I didn't know they'd ever sailed from Norfolk. That would be fantastic for me, too.

I was getting ready to say Dam Dollars. They were lots of fun and the pins are annoying after you already have one.

Know this is an older thread but missed it the first time and am glad someone revived it.

[OBX-Cruisers]

Compared to Royal, the loyalty program on HAL sucks bad and will likely be the reason we never sail on HAL again. At 3 stars you basically get nothing of any real value except woo hoo, 25% discounts in the specialty restaurants and shops and a few crappy "loyalty" meals with really bad food as on our last Eurodam trip earlier this month. It is WAY too hard to get to 4 stars where any meaningful perks cut in when compared to Royal that recognizes status on their other lines (e.g., Celebrity that we really love) for coordinating status on their ships

 

 

I was with you 100% until you said Carnival has the best loyalty program. It’s the worst IMHO. I'm Platinum and need another 100 cruise days for Diamond. What I would get for Diamond is:

 

- A small private event with captain (not a big deal), been to one of those on HAL and its just ok. On my first Carnival cruise we got invited to the captain’s dinner and a tour of the bridge, it was very cool.

 

- More free laundry, six bags is enough for a week as Platinum.

 

- One and only one free specialty restaurant ever, yes ever. What a slap in the face, this should be every cruise.

 

- I think there is some cabin upgrade (one time only) and priority reservations which has never come in handy as Platinum.

 

Now Royal has a bad ass loyalty program. HAL you have to live on a ship and the good stuff doesn’t kick in to 4 or 5 stars. I just made three so it’s going to be awhile but hey I’m in the younger 10% demographics of a HAL cruiser so I hopefully have a few more decades to go.

[iancal]

HALs changes have been minor in relation to their cuts. I realize that some may think that migrating to casual on gala evenings is an earth shattering event. It is minor in the whole scheme of things though one would not know it from the knashing of teeth and moaning about it from a small minority of cruisers.

 

Less MDR and housekeeping staff. Fewer musicians and less live entertainment. Fewer lecturers. Reduced quality of food, including optional venues. Reduced maintenance combined with an effort to wring out every revenue dime from ships on the auction block even if it means unhappy customers.

 

Sure, some may see these as changes. We see them as cutbacks. Just some of the reasons why HAl has not been a premium line for quite a while. It is why their cruises often sell at a discount to competitors on those itineraries with lots of competition. Another OP said it in a post above...HAL is no longer the reliable cruise line of old. It's a crap shoot now on a number of HAL's older ships. The cheerleaders simply don't want to accept it.

Edited January 28, 2018 by iancal

[KirkNC]

You miss the point of this thread: HAL HAS implemented change - that is the problem being discussed here. They took a product which set them apart from their competition, which earned them the loyalty of repeat customers, and they CHANGED it.

 

They decided that they wanted to compete primarily on a price basis with providers who had more bells and whistles which attract a younger demographic. They ignored the fact that, while their older repeat passengers might be dying off (as individuals), there is always a supply of older people coming along - who have the money and the time off -as well as the maturity and learned sophistication to appreciate high quality service, food, entertainment and fine touches.

 

They gave up a niche market -which they owned - and entered a price-driven mass market in which they were not able to compete.

 

If you read many of these posts (recognizing that CC members are just the tip of the iceberg) you will see that very many would be glad to pay the somewhat higher fares which would have been required to maintain the ships and on-board service which used to set HAL apart.

 

Implementing change is only a good idea only if it is change for the better.

 

I agree 100%. The sad thing is I believe they could have remained successful in the niche they once occupied.

[senorjim]

It would be nice if they would change the bed sheets between guests. Oh wait... They do that already! :) We enjoy sailing HAL. We enjoy ships that feel like ships. We really enjoy the gracious crew. We enjoy the itineraries. By no means are we HAL cheerleads. We sail HAL mostly but have also enjoyed Princess, Celebrity, and Oceania.

Jim

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Forums

[ABoatNerd]

The decline in product offering on HAL is the same as on Celebrity, Princess. Amazing amount of negative comments on their boards on many of the same things.

 

The mass lines are all competing on base price and assuming guests will spend aboard to upgrade their experience. Except in these lines, as well as HAL, the extra charge venues are also cheapened. Versus 2-3 years ago, guests are paying significantly more for a good deal less product and quality.

 

Do consumers not understand this? Appears not, because of record profits.

 

Like HAL, Celebrity has dumped their long time guest base in favour of chasing the millies and suite people - the Edge is physical evidence of this.

 

This has created the context whereby longer time sailors are moving to true premium lines; Oceania, Viking. People seem to be resisting Azamara due to the outlandish prices being charged by the RCL parent corp.

 

HAL is not coming back in it's historical format; Cunard is the beneficiary of this as they retain more of the traditional elements of cruising. Oceania has a traditional feel to it as well.

 

Interesting thread on Princess analyzing the inertia in that line's offerings.

 

I for one took my first cruise on Oceania in September past - excellent. This after 23 years exclusively with Celebrity.

 

Further, my cruising volume is only 25% of what it used to be - my vacation $ is being moved to customized land based trips - cruising has lost most of my business due to their constant downgrading and moved focus away from the ocean.

[tkwbear]

Here is the President of HAL explaining how to get the most out of your vacation. Bring your "shoes".

 

[Ladybentley]

How ridiculous that you were refused the fruit tea.

 

On which ship do you experience the shabby cabins, broken toilets, non-functioning air-conditioning and general poor service?

 

It was on the Noordam. Our toilet flooded and our daughter and her husband had no airconditioning in their cabin for the whole cruise from Sydney to Hawaii. You can imagine how hot it got travelling through the tropics. Our son-in-law is disabled and has to spend a lot of time resting in his cabin which was always hot and uncomfortable. At first they got the run-around from the Front Desk who insisted their cabin temperature was normal and said no fans were available. Finally tests established how hot it was and a fan was miraculously produced. But even then there was a fight to get any compensation and all they were offered at the end of the cruise for 16 days without airconditioning was a miserly $200 onboard credit. Not surprising that they don't intend to book HAL again. You judge a company on how they handle problems and complaints.

 

We also found that cruise rather bland and boring with the lack of activities etc on so many sea days. We too miss the pool BBQs and other special events that seem to have all disappeared. I agree with the comment that HAL had a niche market that we fitted right in to but they don't appear to want us any longer.

[2LoveBikes]

It would be nice if they would change the bed sheets between guests. Oh wait... They do that already! :) We enjoy sailing HAL. We enjoy ships that feel like ships. We really enjoy the gracious crew. We enjoy the itineraries. By no means are we HAL cheerleads. We sail HAL mostly but have also enjoyed Princess, Celebrity, and Oceania.

Jim

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Forums

HAL is my favorite cruise line although I too have experienced the unfortunate changes over the years and months. I still enjoy the spacious rooms and even the drawers under the bed. We always completely unpack all of our suitcases and find organized space to put all of our clothes and personal items. The bathrooms also have enough space to put all of our items and the showers are a respectable size without a lot of anxiety. I have experienced limited size rooms (and we usually book balconies, mini/ signature suites) on other cruise lines. The other cruise line with ample space is Carnival. I also enjoy having my stateroom ready when I board and not having to wait at the Lido deck with my carry-ons until 1:00 to 1:30 PM. These perks matter to us and are where we draw the line when choosing who to cruise with. Customer service on HAL is for the most part outstanding from our stateroom stewards to the dining room staff on the Lido and MDR. The food for the most part is very good.

 

Showtime entertainment from the dancers and singers is hit and miss but the Lincoln Center Stage group, BB King Band and others keep us coming back. In addition we enjoy the interesting ports of call. We really enjoy the Crows Nest and the Greenhouse Thermal Rooms too.

[erewhon]

It was on the Noordam. Our toilet flooded and our daughter and her husband had no airconditioning in their cabin for the whole cruise from Sydney to Hawaii. You can imagine how hot it got travelling through the tropics. Our son-in-law is disabled and has to spend a lot of time resting in his cabin which was always hot and uncomfortable. At first they got the run-around from the Front Desk who insisted their cabin temperature was normal and said no fans were available. Finally tests established how hot it was and a fan was miraculously produced. But even then there was a fight to get any compensation and all they were offered at the end of the cruise for 16 days without airconditioning was a miserly $200 onboard credit. Not surprising that they don't intend to book HAL again. You judge a company on how they handle problems and complaints.

 

We also found that cruise rather bland and boring with the lack of activities etc on so many sea days. We too miss the pool BBQs and other special events that seem to have all disappeared. I agree with the comment that HAL had a niche market that we fitted right in to but they don't appear to want us any longer.

 

 

Thank you for your reply.

 

Sailing across the Pacific with no air-conditioning would be horrible.

What category stateroom were they occupying?

[iancal]

This is one of the first extended winter vacations where we have not even bothered to see what, if any, cruises are available during our travels. The cruising value for us has significantly declined.

 

We did an AI at the end of Nov. and another AI at Christmas. Did not even bother to shop for Caribbean or Mex. cruises.

 

Cruise lines don't simply compete amongst each other. They very much compete with all other travel options .

[ABoatNerd]

iancall, thank you for this observation, I agree with you (post 370).

 

My cruising volume is way down since the lines started their cutbacks and cheapening and shrilling and nickle and diming and emphasis on class separation.

 

I am certainly not an indulgent consumer when it comes to the service provider - I am very brutal. If they constantly downgrade what I am paying for, they are terminated.

 

Hence, the cruise lines are mostly terminated from my purchasing decisions.

 

Today's consumer are corporately referred to as "obedient consumers" because they keep buying even in the face of evidence they are receiving less value for money. This is seen in the numerous posts on CC, they complain about the last cruise and still have 3 more booked.

 

My TA confirms this - their formerly only cruise business has now expanded into land travel which is growing much faster with their higher end clients. Cruise volumes are declining and particularly the mass lines, down at least 25%. They offer customized trips with cars/driver/guides in many cities in the world.

 

Cruising has lost its luster for many and no amount of gimmicks will change that.