Air Quality (Pollution) on Cruise Ships - HOW BAD IS IT ?

[vacationlover_mn]

I have never felt sick on a cruise ship, due to pollution... Mumbai, Shanghai, Hong Kong and NYC felt way worse!

 

Never felt like needing a mask on a cruise, but will definitely bring one if I go to China for work again! Being there was very hard on the lungs!

 

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[Eslader]

 

This is important. If I had an axe to grind, I'd wait till the ship was in some godawful harbor with, like, 30 rusting cargo ships and an oil refinery all belching out smoke that was being blown over the cruise ship by a gentle breeze. "Hey, look, this one cruise ship puts out as much pollutants as an oil refinery and a fleet of rustbuckets!"

[alfaeric]

We had an OSHA inspection about 25 years ago and the former employee complained about the exhaust from the LPG forklift indoors.

 

The OSHA inspector came with an assistant who had a measurement device for Carbon monoxide. He walked up to the forklift and put it on the tailpipe, ran and got the primary inspector explaining how bad the reading was.

 

The inspector came over and told him to measure again and when he watched him he told him to measure for 10' feet away and we were in compliance.

 

So the OSHA inspector was not that good. Should have been measuring HC's, scattered around the building- unless the employee was suffering headaches, HC's what you smell, and it stinks. Not to say the truck was not in compliance, but emissions are far more complex than the simple things that people know about.

[Havingfun2010]

I have been on ships, and I have been in Shanghai. Other than the Casino, I can safely say, Shanghai was far worse. ;p

[SRF]

We had an OSHA inspection about 25 years ago and the former employee complained about the exhaust from the LPG forklift indoors.

 

The OSHA inspector came with an assistant who had a measurement device for Carbon monoxide. He walked up to the forklift and put it on the tailpipe, ran and got the primary inspector explaining how bad the reading was.

 

The inspector came over and told him to measure again and when he watched him he told him to measure for 10' feet away and we were in compliance.

 

Typical OSHA idiot. And I am a professional in occupational safety and health.

 

You CANNOT use a CO meter like that. They are not designed to measure exhaust emissions and hot exhaust gases.

 

Also there is NO OSHA standard for tail pipe emissions of ANY equipment. OSHA can only regulate the level at the breathing zone of the employees.

 

But then again, idiots like there have generated a LOT of income for me. And there is a reason I bat 1000 when I go up against them. :D

[LeeW]

Funny post. Lots of the islands where the dirty ships take people to burn their trash and the port is downwind of the dump.

[chengkp75]

Typical OSHA idiot. And I am a professional in occupational safety and health.

 

You CANNOT use a CO meter like that. They are not designed to measure exhaust emissions and hot exhaust gases.

 

Also there is NO OSHA standard for tail pipe emissions of ANY equipment. OSHA can only regulate the level at the breathing zone of the employees.

 

But then again, idiots like there have generated a LOT of income for me. And there is a reason I bat 1000 when I go up against them. :D

 

What you say is absolutely correct, but I would point out that there are CO testers in use on a regular basis in hot exhaust gases. Every boiler technician servicing residential boilers and furnaces uses one to test for CO in the stack gas to determine the air damper setting.

[broberts]

All this over a single article of questionable measures. The part that really got me was "downwind of, and directly next to the ship's funnels". Are passengers even allowed that close to the funnels?

The article strikes me as a dishonest attempt to push a narrative. There may be legitimate concerns, but using junk "science" does not help the situation.

[SRF]

What you say is absolutely correct, but I would point out that there are CO testers in use on a regular basis in hot exhaust gases. Every boiler technician servicing residential boilers and furnaces uses one to test for CO in the stack gas to determine the air damper setting.

 

Absolutely, but they are DESIGNED for that use. :D

 

One piece of equipment I used to have had a long metal device with fins to cool the air being drawn in, so it could be used this way.

 

It was GREAT FUN, checking in, with a 14 - 15" long metal finned device. :D

[BillHana]

On 20 + cruises I have never experienced any exhaust smell or discomfort. But I have had hallways smelly from toilet backups.Then there are the smoking sections which we accidentally pass through which are terrible. When some ships (Explorer) have outside decks closed due to bad weather the cigarette smoke smell from the casino permeates the lower decks.

[AlanF65]

Typical OSHA idiot. And I am a professional in occupational safety and health.

 

You CANNOT use a CO meter like that. They are not designed to measure exhaust emissions and hot exhaust gases.

 

Also there is NO OSHA standard for tail pipe emissions of ANY equipment. OSHA can only regulate the level at the breathing zone of the employees.

 

But then again, idiots like there have generated a LOT of income for me. And there is a reason I bat 1000 when I go up against them. :D

 

It was an interesting inspection, someone was doing a sales presentation to use and the head inspector tried to come in the door (did not identify himself) so I wouldn't let him in, said he needed top talk with the owner which is typical salesman cold call language so I wouldn't let him in and he just keep reiterating he needed to speak with the owner. Then he identified himself and I let him in.

 

The disgruntled employee took same lacquer and sprayed the outside of the building with eff you (my brothers name).

 

 

We ended up passing with a few "fix-it tickets". This was 25 years ago, we now have a HR firm on retainer that does OSHA inspection negotiations.

[PigsCanFly]

I avoid the stack fumes by spending most of my time indoors in the casino. I'm sure that the air is purer there!:o

[SRF]

It was an interesting inspection, someone was doing a sales presentation to use and the head inspector tried to come in the door (did not identify himself) so I wouldn't let him in, said he needed top talk with the owner which is typical salesman cold call language so I wouldn't let him in and he just keep reiterating he needed to speak with the owner. Then he identified himself and I let him in.

 

The disgruntled employee took same lacquer and sprayed the outside of the building with eff you (my brothers name).

 

 

We ended up passing with a few "fix-it tickets". This was 25 years ago, we now have a HR firm on retainer that does OSHA inspection negotiations.

 

What you need a Certified Industrial Hygienist to refute invalid citations. And they will help you from getting valid ones. :)

 

I was a consulate IH for about 15 years before going Fed (NOT OSHA :D ).

[Biker19]

All this over a single article of questionable measures.

You want questionable? How about:

 

https://www.seattletimes.com/nation-world/alaska-issues-air-quality-violations-to-8-cruise-ships/

 

Monitors in cities where cruises dock measure the ships’ emissions through visual tests of opacity. The darker the emission, the more likely it contains pollution.

 

^ two RCI ships were included in 8 ships cited for pollution in Ketchikan.

[Pellaz]

pretty much yes.

 

the newest ship that will have a difference is the AidaNova (Carnival owned) cruise ship that is powered by LNG which is a lot cleaner than the dirty fuel used by other cruise ships (including RCI)

 

Carnival has also ordered a somewhat larger ship for their own fleet which is LNG-powered. It's good to see them taking the initiative, since not every cruise ship homeport has the necessary facilities yet.

[maggie cruises]

Just wondering....is there a way to test the smoke ...carcinogen..tar..etc levels in the casino?

 

Also a way to measure how far from the casino the smoke is dangerous?

 

Also perhaps to check the fire hazard to the ship due to inside smoking in the casino?

 

 

Serious questions and just inquiring

 

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[chengkp75]

Just wondering....is there a way to test the smoke ...carcinogen..tar..etc levels in the casino?

 

Also a way to measure how far from the casino the smoke is dangerous?

 

Also perhaps to check the fire hazard to the ship due to inside smoking in the casino?

 

 

Serious questions and just inquiring

 

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Are you talking about personally testing, or professional testing and monitoring?

 

Personal testing, sure, if you don't mind packing your portable gas chromatograph and mass spectrometer to analyse the air.

 

Not sure how you "check the fire hazard" from smoking other than to say it is the same for smoking in any building.

[maggie cruises]

Are you talking about personally testing, or professional testing and monitoring?

 

 

 

Personal testing, sure, if you don't mind packing your portable gas chromatograph and mass spectrometer to analyse the air.

 

 

 

Not sure how you "check the fire hazard" from smoking other than to say it is the same for smoking in any building.

 

 

 

Actually professional testing would be the way to do it

 

As for fire hazard that seems simple enough but of course someone trained in workplace/public space hazardous conditions would be the one to do it

 

Perhaps look at the combustible material spots versus the casino crowding or the intensity of the smoke haze or even something as simple as wall grime from smoke residue or what happens should a cig spark a fire

 

You know exactly what I'm getting at

 

My point is that it's rather interesting that the cruiselines aren't one bit concerned with the peripheral hazards that interior ship casino smoking can easily cause which would put the entire ship in grave danger

 

But at least no more plastic straws and they encourage us to use the same bath towel for 3 days straight

 

 

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[chengkp75]

Actually professional testing would be the way to do it

 

As for fire hazard that seems simple enough but of course someone trained in workplace/public space hazardous conditions would be the one to do it

 

Perhaps look at the combustible material spots versus the casino crowding or the intensity of the smoke haze or even something as simple as wall grime from smoke residue or what happens should a cig spark a fire

 

You know exactly what I'm getting at

 

My point is that it's rather interesting that the cruiselines aren't one bit concerned with the peripheral hazards that interior ship casino smoking can easily cause which would put the entire ship in grave danger

 

But at least no more plastic straws and they encourage us to use the same bath towel for 3 days straight

 

 

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Well, since the ships are flagged in countries that typically have little or no air quality standards, I don't see the cruise lines doing, or caring, about air quality from smoking.

 

As for the fire hazard presented by smoking, this has already been taken into account when the ship is designed (actually long before, when the classification societies set their rules for ship construction, and by the IMO through SOLAS, and these rules are promulgated as if the entire ship is a smoking area, cruise ships that ban or limit smoking in most areas are an anomaly), and the number of fire extinguishers, fire hoses, and sprinklers are typically more than most land building codes require. With sprinkler protection, combustible materials are less of a concern, and even then, most ship combustibles have flame retardant coatings applied. It would takes years and years of buildup before "wall grime" containing tar from cigarettes would pose a serious flammability hazard.

 

And, as for the use of plastics, and the amount of energy the ship uses (emissions as well as cost), these are things that are regulated by international law, while indoor air quality is not. If you want to apply US environmental standards to a cruise ship, you would have to vote using your wallet and only cruise on US flag ships.

[maggie cruises]

Ok you know what I'm saying....the thread title is ...air quality(pollution) on a cruise ship

 

It says ON a ship not in the water around the ship but I realize everyone is going that route...but to keep with the threads title ...I honestly think that the ships are polluting their indoor space but do not care one bit because they don't have to care one bit about it

 

The only reason they do anything environmental regarding the seas is because they are being forced to.

 

Regardless of the flag the ship sails I find it amazing..albeit hypocritical..that most of the cruiselines still allow smoking in any indoor venue at all

 

Where are the environmental and human health watchdogs there?

 

Why aren't there groups that threaten to boycott cruising until all indoor space is smoke free on all ships

 

Where are the FB pages encouraging this?

 

Where are the protesters at the port reminding the pax of the cancer causing situations in ship casinos?

 

If They can protest outside of a circus about an elephant they can protest a cruiseline that allows casino or any indoor smoking. The chances are that any given pax is in more danger walking through the casino than they are if a plastic straw goes overboard.

 

 

Cheng....at least you agree that the cruiselines just don't care and aren't doing anything about indoor smoking

 

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[Guinness1000]

I've read that report too a few years ago. In The Economist, I believe. It was at the same time RCC launched a new mega ship. The numbers were correct, but the OP is wrong. The article was talking about air pollution those mega ships contribute with for the world. Not air quality on the ships themselves. Also, they burn diesel when near any country. Can't remember the milage. Once out in international waters, they burn bunker fuel. As do ALL ships. Not just cruise ships, but most of the commercial traffic you see out there on the oceans. They are making new laws though and most ships will have scrubbers installed in the stacks. Maritime traffic cause more air pollution than all the cars in the world. I think that was in the article too, or it might have been a different one. Next time you take a behind the scenes tour of your cruise ship, ask the captain or the people in charge of the engines about this. They don't like talking about it, but if you're genuinely interested, they will.

[chengkp75]

I've read that report too a few years ago. In The Economist, I believe. It was at the same time RCC launched a new mega ship. The numbers were correct, but the OP is wrong. The article was talking about air pollution those mega ships contribute with for the world. Not air quality on the ships themselves. Also, they burn diesel when near any country. Can't remember the milage. Once out in international waters, they burn bunker fuel. As do ALL ships. Not just cruise ships, but most of the commercial traffic you see out there on the oceans. They are making new laws though and most ships will have scrubbers installed in the stacks. Maritime traffic cause more air pollution than all the cars in the world. I think that was in the article too, or it might have been a different one. Next time you take a behind the scenes tour of your cruise ship, ask the captain or the people in charge of the engines about this. They don't like talking about it, but if you're genuinely interested, they will.

 

The ships do not burn diesel when "near any country". They only do this in ECA's (Emission Control Areas), which are the North American, Baltic, North Sea, and also the EU requires it within 2 hours of actually docking. Everywhere else, they can continue to burn residual fuel in port. And while ships do burn dirtier fuel than anyone else, think about this: 90% of the world's commerce is carried on ships, yet they only produce 3% of the greenhouse gases from burning hydrocarbons.

[chengkp75]

Ok you know what I'm saying....the thread title is ...air quality(pollution) on a cruise ship

 

It says ON a ship not in the water around the ship but I realize everyone is going that route...but to keep with the threads title ...I honestly think that the ships are polluting their indoor space but do not care one bit because they don't have to care one bit about it

 

The only reason they do anything environmental regarding the seas is because they are being forced to.

 

Regardless of the flag the ship sails I find it amazing..albeit hypocritical..that most of the cruiselines still allow smoking in any indoor venue at all

 

Where are the environmental and human health watchdogs there?

 

Why aren't there groups that threaten to boycott cruising until all indoor space is smoke free on all ships

 

Where are the FB pages encouraging this?

 

Where are the protesters at the port reminding the pax of the cancer causing situations in ship casinos?

 

If They can protest outside of a circus about an elephant they can protest a cruiseline that allows casino or any indoor smoking. The chances are that any given pax is in more danger walking through the casino than they are if a plastic straw goes overboard.

 

 

Cheng....at least you agree that the cruiselines just don't care and aren't doing anything about indoor smoking

 

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Where indeed? They're not there because remedying this would cost more for your vacation. And I while I did say the cruise lines don't care about this, it really is that since there is no regulatory requirement, they see this as a personal choice of the passengers, smoke or don't, go into a smoky casino or don't. And, no, they won't do anything about indoor smoking until there is a visible result to their bottom line caused by folks not buying cruises because of smoke.

 

And, why hypocritical? The vast majority of the world still allows smoking in public spaces and indoor spaces. If you travel to another country, do you expect them to ban smoking indoors just because it's that way in the US? Again, if you want to enjoy US environmental mores on a cruise ship, travel on a US flag ship. Don't try to push US culture on the rest of the world, that's what makes us unwanted by the rest of the world.

[Merion_Mom]

Ok you know what I'm saying....the thread title is ...air quality(pollution) on a cruise ship

 

It says ON a ship not in the water around the ship but I realize everyone is going that route...but to keep with the threads title ...I honestly think that the ships are polluting their indoor space but do not care one bit because they don't have to care one bit about it

 

The only reason they do anything environmental regarding the seas is because they are being forced to.

 

Regardless of the flag the ship sails I find it amazing..albeit hypocritical..that most of the cruiselines still allow smoking in any indoor venue at all

 

Where are the environmental and human health watchdogs there?

 

Why aren't there groups that threaten to boycott cruising until all indoor space is smoke free on all ships

 

Where are the FB pages encouraging this?

 

Where are the protesters at the port reminding the pax of the cancer causing situations in ship casinos?

 

If They can protest outside of a circus about an elephant they can protest a cruiseline that allows casino or any indoor smoking. The chances are that any given pax is in more danger walking through the casino than they are if a plastic straw goes overboard.

 

 

Cheng....at least you agree that the cruiselines just don't care and aren't doing anything about indoor smoking

 

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I consider myself an “environmentally conscious” person, but you are SO far over the top with this rant.

 

Just avoid the casino. It’s not that difficult.

 

Me? I would rather spend half an hour in a casino than 2 minutes trapped in an elevator with someone marinated in perfume/ cologne/ aftershave.

[maggie cruises]

Where indeed? They're not there because remedying this would cost more for your vacation. And I while I did say the cruise lines don't care about this, it really is that since there is no regulatory requirement, they see this as a personal choice of the passengers, smoke or don't, go into a smoky casino or don't. And, no, they won't do anything about indoor smoking until there is a visible result to their bottom line caused by folks not buying cruises because of smoke.

 

 

 

And, why hypocritical? The vast majority of the world still allows smoking in public spaces and indoor spaces. If you travel to another country, do you expect them to ban smoking indoors just because it's that way in the US? Again, if you want to enjoy US environmental mores on a cruise ship, travel on a US flag ship. Don't try to push US culture on the rest of the world, that's what makes us unwanted by the rest of the world.

 

 

 

I've traveled all over the world but will not go to Asia due to smoking issues there but I digress

 

However even in Rome these days smoking in public spaces is quite diminished and never an issue finding smoke free space indoor or outdoor at restaurants.

 

It's only going to take another half a generation or so in the USA based cruises to eliminate all smoking anyway but of course they need to allow for the foreign crew to have a well vented space to smoke but that will be away from pax anyway

 

The older generation will die off and the average logical 20 to 40 something doesn't smoke anyway. Key word is logical but add in educated as well.

 

Funny though the one thing rarely mentioned is that the ships officers are well known smokers so that's also part of the reason/problem that casino smoking is so pervasive and non playing smokers aren't told to stop

 

The agenda is oh so obvious

 

 

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