Holland America Line Raises Gratuities for 2019

[kazu]

2 hours ago, mistertoaster said:

I have no problem with mandatory gratuities, but those reserving a cruise before the tips are increased should not have to pay the increase. I booked a Holland cruise to Alaska next May just before the increase was announced. We are a family of four in a suite so this is a $28 increase. Not a large amount, however, there is a principle of full disclosure to the consumer on pricing at stake.

 

I called Holland on this issue. They did not have a response for whether the practice is deceptive in advertising one price for a cruise and then charge another price for the cruise due to changes after the booking. They simply indicated they had not raised gratuities in a while (not true), and they had no provision for grandfathering passengers who already booked a reservation. Just seems a deceptive way to do business. Ironically, this is our first cruise on Holland. We were fleeing the "nickel and dime" fee incremental increases on NCL. Not a great first impression. 

I understand what you are saying, but I have booked cruises well in advance and hit these HSC increases several times (and, it applies to us next year).

 

I once had the same thought but thinking about it, some crew would be penalized and others would not.  That's not fair either.

 

I am fine with the HSC increase and we'll pay the extra $48 - no biggie.

 

But, I do think HAL should notify those booked that HSC has gone up.  They have our emails, they can let us know about shore excursions, express docs, etc.  Seems only right that they give those already booked a heads up.  Not everyone reviews the "know before you" for the 100th time before saiing and not everyone is on the HAL board.

[1ANGELCAT]

3 hours ago, Aquahound said:

 

I agree with you.  I believe it was pushed more as discretionary with suggested tip amounts.  I don't remember any of the major lines saying "no tipping required."   

I’ve been cruising with HAL since 1976.  I totally agree with RuthC, it was most definitely advertised as a tipping not required policy . I remember many a disembarkation talk by the CD reading the letter from Seattle that they are NOT allowed to suggest any amounts.

   On the other hand , I definitely remember Royal shoving the envelopes at you for crew members I never even met.

[Hlitner]

On 10/18/2018 at 3:18 PM, DeeniEncinitas said:

I received a email from my PCC a couple of weeks ago for our month cruise for 2020!

we follow with Oceania Cruise line to The Med and gratuities are higher than HAL but to me everything has gone up over the years. I’d love to prepay gratuities ahead of time!

smooth sailing 

Denise😊

Just book with a decent cruise agency that will give you pre-paid gratuities :).

 

Hank

[RuthC]

7 hours ago, igraf said:

 

 

Sorry, Ruth, but if HAL had a written (and prominently advertised) policy of "no tipping required" then that is a no tipping policy. 

 

 

I take it you don't understand the nuance of difference between 'not required' and 'no', as in 'not at all'.
There are cruise lines where the crew is not allowed to accept tips. That is 'no tipping'. HAL never had that policy.

[Copper10-8]

1 hour ago, Jammu2 said:

.................................. That's why the skinflints wait for the last day to remove grats. You never see them removing on the first day.........................

 

1 hour ago, Jammu2 said:

 

 

 

"Skinflints" - Had to look that one up! Very appropo! Thanks for the enlightenment  

[Bill B]

HAL used to have a marketing slogan "No tipping required." Think about it - tipping is never required... anywhere! It was not a policy... tipping was expected and accepted.

[sevenseasnomad]

If a passenger removes the gratuities, doesn't HA treat it as a black mark against the steward/waiter?  Too many passengers removing gratuities from a particular group of cabins/tables could result in one of these hardworking crew being fired.  It is incomprehensible to me that passengers would remove tips simply because they refuse to pay for tips!

 

I have been sailing with HA since 2008, not as long as some posters, but certainly long enough to appreciate the great service, which is one reason I continue to sail with this cruise line.  I would have to receive sub-par or discourteous service to think about removing a tip.  If this were to happen, I would first try to address the problem with the employee the same day.  If the bad service continued, I would ask to speak to a supervisor.  I can recall on one cruise that my husband, upon meeting our steward for the first time, asked him to fill the ice bucket three times a day.  The first day he only filled it once.  My husband addressed it with the steward that evening, and the ice bucket was replenished per our request after that.  If a passenger is receiving what he/she feels is inferior service, then there are ways to correct it.  If the expectation is not met, after trying to rectify it, the last resort, IMO, would be to adjust the gratuity.  But to simply remove gratuities for no other reason than "I don't ever tip" leaves me shaking my head.     

[RocketMan275]

One thing we should bear in mind is that Holland charges about $6.75 for a beer.  The $1 increase in gratuities, even for a family of four, is only $28 for a seven day cruise which is approximately the cost of four beers.   If cash is so tight, giving up four beers on a seven day cruise, doesn't seem like a great sacrifice.

[Randyk47]

9 hours ago, sevenseasnomad said:

If a passenger removes the gratuities, doesn't HA treat it as a black mark against the steward/waiter?  Too many passengers removing gratuities from a particular group of cabins/tables could result in one of these hardworking crew being fired.  It is incomprehensible to me that passengers would remove tips simply because they refuse to pay for tips!

 

Passengers removing or reducing the HSC are asked why.   If it’s a generic “I/we don’t believe in tipping” then I can’t see any repercussions for the staff.   If on the other hand if it’s done for a specific reason like “Dinner service was bad” then indeed there could be repercussions against the staff.   And based the lot longer list than I expected that I saw quite a few remove or reduce the HSC.   Good time to remember most of the posters here cruise one or more cruise line fairly frequently but only represent a very small percentage of the total cruising population.   Hard to say if we’re representative of that greater population or not.   

 

[RocketMan275]

1 hour ago, Randyk47 said:

 

Passengers removing or reducing the HSC are asked why.   If it’s a generic “I/we don’t believe in tipping” then I can’t see any repercussions for the staff.   If on the other hand if it’s done for a specific reason like “Dinner service was bad” then indeed there could be repercussions against the staff.   And based the lot longer list than I expected that I saw quite a few remove or reduce the HSC.   Good time to remember most of the posters here cruise one or more cruise line fairly frequently but only represent a very small percentage of the total cruising population.   Hard to say if we’re representative of that greater population or not.   

 

Do you really expect someone to say I'm removing the gratuities to save money?  Much easier to complain about the service.

[terrydtx]

Most world class land resorts charge a per day resort fee on top of the daily room charge. I have seen this in several places like Hawaii and Florida. So I  guess that since these fees are not included in the room charge some posters here would protest being charged these fees. However these resort fees are mandatory and if you do not want to pay them you don't get to stay there and use the facilities. I would  not have any  problem with HAL making the HSC mandatory as I would never consider stiffing the hard working members of the crew. If some customers didn't  like this, then they could go cruise elsewhere   and the rest of us and the HAL crews would be better off for it.

[hondah]

It's a little amusing seeing some here calling those concerned about another increase in gratuities "skinflints" if they so dare to question the policy, how it is communicated, or how it is applied to bookings made in advance. Stewards work hard, I know that, and I gladly accept the normal gratuity charged to my shipboard account. But there are many people for whom the gratuities add up, and to think that our gratuities may be the only thing standing between a steward and destitution when they work for a cruise line that is part of a major corporation that raked in $1.7 B in profits during the last quarter alone, means that we should be a little more understanding of our fellow cruisers' concerns.

Edited October 22, 2018 by hondah

[Randyk47]

18 hours ago, RocketMan275 said:

Do you really expect someone to say I'm removing the gratuities to save money?  Much easier to complain about the service.

 

So not only are they removing the HSC but they’re also throwing some of the crew “under the bus” just to justify the removal ?   That’s tight.  Certainly bad service should be brought up with the appropriate supervisor but at or close the occurrence not at the Front Desk at the end of a cruise when little can be done to fix the problem.   

[terrydtx]

53 minutes ago, Randyk47 said:

 

So not only are they removing the HSC but they’re also throwing some of the crew “under the bus” just to justify the removal ?   That’s tight.  Certainly bad service should be brought up with the appropriate supervisor but at or close the occurrence not at the Front Desk at the end of a cruise when little can be done to fix the problem.   

From what some posters here have stated, bad service has nothing to do with withholding the HSC. Since it is not mandatory they are just too cheap to feel obligated to  pay it. Some even brag about not paying the charge, which I find to be despicable. For reasons like this, I am all in favor of HAL having a mandatory HSC for all passengers.

[jtl513]

1 hour ago, terrydtx said:

From what some posters here have stated, bad service has nothing to do with withholding the HSC. Since it is not mandatory they are just too cheap to feel obligated to  pay it. Some even brag about not paying the charge, which I find to be despicable. For reasons like this, I am all in favor of HAL having a mandatory HSC for all passengers.

There has to be some mechanism for removing charges for truly bad service, but it should be much more difficult to do than it is now. Maybe the charge for a single day could only be removed within 24 hours of each alleged bad service incident, or a face-to-face meeting with high-level management could be required, not just simply filling out a form (often phony) at the front desk.

I agree that those who do not pay the Charge for any reason other than grossly inadequate service are despicable.😘 

Edited October 22, 2018 by jtl513

[Randyk47]

4 minutes ago, jtl513 said:

There has to be some mechanism for removing charges for truly bad service, but it should be much more difficult to do than it is now. Maybe the charge for a single day could only be removed within 24 hours of each alleged bad service incident, or a face-to-face meeting with high-level management could be required, not just simply filling out a form (often phony) at the front desk.

 

Totally agree.   Case in point please for us was a Veendam cruise a few years ago.   The MDR service was just plain horrible.   Yes I mentioned it more than once to the appropriate supervisors and it would be better the next night then back to horrible.   We didn’t remove or reduce the HSC but we thought about it.   Kind of wish we could have opted for a targeted reduction to the MDR portion or share  without impacting our cabin crew.   

[Aquahound]

43 minutes ago, jtl513 said:

There has to be some mechanism for removing charges for truly bad service, but it should be much more difficult to do than it is now.

 

I think all the lines should follow NCL's model.  The DSC is mandatory on board.  In order to remove them, you have to request it, in writing via mailed letter, after the cruise is ended to NCL.  The letter must detail your reasoning for removing the charges.  It's an inconvenient process and there is no way to remove them while on board.  

Edited October 22, 2018 by Aquahound

[RuthC]

1 hour ago, jtl513 said:

There has to be some mechanism for removing charges for truly bad service, but it should be much more difficult to do than it is now. Maybe the charge for a single day could only be removed within 24 hours of each alleged bad service incident, ....

Not a bad idea at all, but may I suggest that the amount be less than a full day of HSC. After all, if one element of service is less than optimal, the service from other aspects that day are still worthy of payment.
For example, just because the cabin steward forgot to put sheets on the bed when he changed the linen doesn't mean my table service wasn't great.

[jtl513]

2 hours ago, Aquahound said:

 

I think all the lines should follow NCL's model.  The DSC is mandatory on board.  In order to remove them, you have to request it, in writing via mailed letter, after the cruise is ended to NCL.  The letter must detail your reasoning for removing the charges.  It's an inconvenient process and there is no way to remove them while on board.  

 

I like that idea.  

[terrydtx]

2 hours ago, Aquahound said:

 

I think all the lines should follow NCL's model.  The DSC is mandatory on board.  In order to remove them, you have to request it, in writing via mailed letter, after the cruise is ended to NCL.  The letter must detail your reasoning for removing the charges.  It's an inconvenient process and there is no way to remove them while on board.  

I would fully support this on HAL. This would eliminate the cheapskates who just don’t want to pay the charge.

[ChinaShrek]

7 hours ago, RuthC said:

Not a bad idea at all, but may I suggest that the amount be less than a full day of HSC. After all, if one element of service is less than optimal, the service from other aspects that day are still worthy of payment.
For example, just because the cabin steward forgot to put sheets on the bed when he changed the linen doesn't mean my table service wasn't great.

How about if it is a port day and I don't eat on the ship for 2 or 3 meals?  Tips should removed then as well.  You try so hard to give the workers extra money when they do nothing or are shiftless.  You baffle me.

[Khaos WolfKat]

8 hours ago, Aquahound said:

 

I think all the lines should follow NCL's model.  The DSC is mandatory on board.  In order to remove them, you have to request it, in writing via mailed letter, after the cruise is ended to NCL.  The letter must detail your reasoning for removing the charges.  It's an inconvenient process and there is no way to remove them while on board.  

 

I think that would make it more difficult to address actual concerns in a timely manner. I AM in favour of requiring detailed reasoning for removal, however.

 

8 hours ago, RuthC said:

Not a bad idea at all, but may I suggest that the amount be less than a full day of HSC. After all, if one element of service is less than optimal, the service from other aspects that day are still worthy of payment.
For example, just because the cabin steward forgot to put sheets on the bed when he changed the linen doesn't mean my table service wasn't great.

 

Agreed, Ruth! And, again, the detailed explanation would help to deal with any actual crew issues.

 

23 minutes ago, ChinaShrek said:

How about if it is a port day and I don't eat on the ship for 2 or 3 meals?  Tips should removed then as well.  You try so hard to give the workers extra money when they do nothing or are shiftless.  You baffle me.

 

I believe it has been made pretty clear that almost everyone else is in favour of being able to remove tips or partial tips for actual failures on the part of crew to properly perform their duties.

It seems, rather, that what baffles you is the idea of spending any more than you absolutely must, for any reason, regardless of whether it cheats someone who worked tirelessly to see to your every need out of their due. Yes, we know. You don't consider it their due. That has also been made clear. Oh, for the grander, more enlightened days when the hired help knew their place, were grateful for the crumbs that fell their way, wouldn't dream of expecting courtesy, let alone decent pay from their masters, and ethnocentric Americans didn't ruin it for their betters with silly notions of rewarding a job well done, rather than keeping order by swiftly punishing any lapse, real or perceived. What backwards, naive, barbarians we must all seem!

[kazu]

53 minutes ago, Khaos WolfKat said:

 

I think that would make it more difficult to address actual concerns in a timely manner. I AM in favour of requiring detailed reasoning for removal, however.

 

 

Agreed, Ruth! And, again, the detailed explanation would help to deal with any actual crew issues.

 

 

I believe it has been made pretty clear that almost everyone else is in favour of being able to remove tips or partial tips for actual failures on the part of crew to properly perform their duties.

It seems, rather, that what baffles you is the idea of spending any more than you absolutely must, for any reason, regardless of whether it cheats someone who worked tirelessly to see to your every need out of their due. Yes, we know. You don't consider it their due. That has also been made clear. Oh, for the grander, more enlightened days when the hired help knew their place, were grateful for the crumbs that fell their way, wouldn't dream of expecting courtesy, let alone decent pay from their masters, and ethnocentric Americans didn't ruin it for their betters with silly notions of rewarding a job well done, rather than keeping order by swiftly punishing any lapse, real or perceived. What backwards, naive, barbarians we must all seem!

Perfect post.  

 

+1.  Thank you.

[bEwAbG]

This one poster has derailed many threads with his non-conventional thoughts on tipping.  Best to ignore altogether.  If they really believe half of the stuff they espouse, there are mental deficiencies involved.  

[ChinaShrek]

3 hours ago, bEwAbG said:

This one poster has derailed many threads with his non-conventional thoughts on tipping.  Best to ignore altogether.  If they really believe half of the stuff they espouse, there are mental deficiencies involved.  

 

However, my thoughts have sparked a valuable discussion about the purpose of tipping.  This is ultimately the goal of posting online - to provoke thought.  Unless we challenge are preconceptions, we are doomed to fail in life.  I will be on the look out for ways to avoid tipping on the Veendam in December. 😀