Overboard incidents, will they ever change the design of decks?

[Joebucks]

21 hours ago, chengkp75 said:

Well, unless the bad PR gets to immense proportions, and bookings start to drop, the cruise lines have no incentive to make costly changes.  As for lawmakers, this would require a revision to SOLAS to affect foreign flag cruise ships, so you would have to have lawmakers in many different countries agree that this is a major problem.

 

This is one area I don't agree with you on. It doesn't necessarily take bookings to drop for things to change, nor does it require revisions to international law. PR governs our corporations these days more than we think. Companies do lots of research and marketing to grow their userbase as much as possible. They find customers who don't use the service, and ask them why. After a bunch of uninformed heard on Facebook and the news about children and adults falling off, they are scared to death of cruising. Especially for their children. What does the cruise line do from there? 

 

Now inversely, I believe the business lost would be more than they would gain by "taking action". The majority of cruisers don't want to be trapped inside a glass box. That breeze and unrestricted view of the outside is part of the experience. Just knowing the way the world works in my experience though, a few people always always always ruin it for everyone. With the way things are trending, looking 10-20 years in the future, I can't say I'm optimistic that everything stays the same. If I was a betting man, we will see more "safety measures". No one cares that the percentage of people falling off is an insignificant percentage. Look at every hot "epidemic" in the news. Rarely of any statistical significance. As the sea sees more, and larger ships, they will look for ways to mitigate these instances.

[sparks1093]

2 minutes ago, Joebucks said:

 

This is one area I don't agree with you on. It doesn't necessarily take bookings to drop for things to change, nor does it require revisions to international law. PR governs our corporations these days more than we think. Companies do lots of research and marketing to grow their userbase as much as possible. They find customers who don't use the service, and ask them why. After a bunch of uninformed heard on Facebook and the news about children and adults falling off, they are scared to death of cruising. Especially for their children. What does the cruise line do from there? 

 

Now inversely, I believe the business lost would be more than they would gain by "taking action". The majority of cruisers don't want to be trapped inside a glass box. That breeze and unrestricted view of the outside is part of the experience. Just knowing the way the world works in my experience though, a few people always always always ruin it for everyone. With the way things are trending, looking 10-20 years in the future, I can't say I'm optimistic that everything stays the same. If I was a betting man, we will see more "safety measures". No one cares that the percentage of people falling off is an insignificant percentage. Look at every hot "epidemic" in the news. Rarely of any statistical significance. As the sea sees more, and larger ships, they will look for ways to mitigate these instances.

If someone has it in their head that a particular activity is dangerous no amount of marketing is going to change their mind. The last thing that I would want to do as a company is to try to convince someone who is "scared to death" of using my product or service to actually use my product or service.

[BoDidly]

 

I have to add to this story, just for the discussion on ship security.  

 

A few years back we had a young man in his twenties decided to jump over the railings on the 10th floor down into the lido pool. Yes there were kids in the pool and the adults went crazy, who can blame them.  Security came and gave this kid a good verbal lashing. But the problem I noticed were people taking pictures of the incident and the kid that jumped into the pool.   Security was walking around trying to stop all those people from taking pictures / videos enough so that they stopped lecturing the young man and just started insisting people leave the area which was the lido deck. Security became more concerned about the videos and cameras than the actual event.

[Joebucks]

13 minutes ago, sparks1093 said:

If someone has it in their head that a particular activity is dangerous no amount of marketing is going to change their mind. The last thing that I would want to do as a company is to try to convince someone who is "scared to death" of using my product or service to actually use my product or service.

 

Sure you can't cater to every customer or change their mind. As a higher-up in a larger corporation, that sort of defeatist attitude will get you fired though. Corporations each and every day work on attracting new customers. That is a fact. 

 

What are the stigmas associated with cruising? Dirty, rowdy passengers, unsafe, etc. Do you honestly think they just say oh well, we can't change any opinions? 

[sparks1093]

1 minute ago, Joebucks said:

 

Sure you can't cater to every customer or change their mind. As a higher-up in a larger corporation, that sort of defeatist attitude will get you fired though. Corporations each and every day work on attracting new customers. That is a fact. 

 

What are the stigmas associated with cruising? Dirty, rowdy passengers, unsafe, etc. Do you honestly think they just say oh well, we can't change any opinions? 

No, but they also don't spend money without a darn good reason. Look at what Carnival has done to change it's image and look how long it's taken to get where they are but even after all of that there are still many out there who say "Carnival is a party boat and I would never ever sail with them". 

[declansdad]

The next cruise ship design.

 

[cougaraz]

Let's be clear about our use of the English language here, no one is accidentally falling off of cruise ships, that is a physical impossibility.

 

People who are cruising and go overboard have made deliberate decisions to ignore safety rules, failed to monitor their children or otherwise acted to bypass the safety features of the ship. 

 

Current cruise ship design is exceedingly safe and absent deliberate action on the part of a passenger, no one is going to fall overboard.

[coevan]

3 hours ago, Joebucks said:

What are the stigmas associated with cruising? Dirty, rowdy passengers, unsafe, etc. 

 

 

I never thought of any of these stigmas. Passengers are dirty and rowdy?

[Florings]

The percentage of people going overboard would preclude a total redesign of all cruise ships.  If a person is set on jumping off a ship, or if a person thinks he can walk along the rail or sit for a photo on the rail...  We will continue to read about overboards.

 

I, for one, would not care to have a 6 foot high glass partition all around the decks!

[Haoie]

Chief, you're a wealth of info as usual. Great perspective into design.

[tidecat]

There may be more incidents, but the number of incidents compared to the number of passengers who cruise each year continues to hover around one in one million. Statistically, Carnival should be expected to have 4 or 5 incidents per year.

 

To put it in perspective, there are around 80-100 homicides each year in the county where I live, which has a population of around 775,000. I am at least 100 times more likely to be shot to death the day before I fly out for a cruise than I would be to go overboard.

[sparks1093]

11 hours ago, tidecat said:

There may be more incidents, but the number of incidents compared to the number of passengers who cruise each year continues to hover around one in one million. Statistically, Carnival should be expected to have 4 or 5 incidents per year.

 

To put it in perspective, there are around 80-100 homicides each year in the county where I live, which has a population of around 775,000. I am at least 100 times more likely to be shot to death the day before I fly out for a cruise than I would be to go overboard.

I have zero chance of going overboard because I don't go where I'm not supposed to go or do things I'm not supposed to do.

[hftmrock]

seems like natural selection to me

[coevan]

5 hours ago, sparks1093 said:

I have zero chance of going overboard because I don't go where I'm not supposed to go or do things I'm not supposed to do.

 

 

There is also that gravity thing.

[momof3cruisers]

My sons who are both 6'5" decided to test this falling overboard theory. In our living room, not on a ship. They used an excercise bar to simulate the railing and put it at 1 meter high. They tried pretending they were drunk and tripping sideways into the railing, they tried running straight at it, they tried falling as they approached it, the funniest one they tried was running at it and then jumping up with their hip facing the rail. Nothing worked because their behinds were never over the level of the railing. Not even close, really. We figure one would have to be at least 7 ft tall and still be acting fairly foolishly and to have really weird circumstances to "fall" overboard.

 

And yes, we have too much time on our hands. 😂 This was actually to settle an argument. The oldest thought it would be possible, the youngest told him he was nuts. Little brother wins.

[BoDidly]

8 minutes ago, momof3cruisers said:

My sons who are both 6'5" decided to test this falling overboard theory. In our living room, not on a ship. They used an excercise bar to simulate the railing and put it at 1 meter high. They tried pretending they were drunk and tripping sideways into the railing, they tried running straight at it, they tried falling as they approached it, the funniest one they tried was running at it and then jumping up with their hip facing the rail. Nothing worked because their behinds were never over the level of the railing. Not even close, really. We figure one would have to be at least 7 ft tall and still be acting fairly foolishly and to have really weird circumstances to "fall" overboard.

 

And yes, we have too much time on our hands. 😂 This was actually to settle an argument. The oldest thought it would be possible, the youngest told him he was nuts. Little brother wins.

Yea , but what if one son was on the other sons shoulders and they were both drunk ? 😎

[wo5m]

After reading all of these responses and i did a little bit of research. If the railings heights used by cruise ship industry was truly inadequate there is situation we would expect to see overboard passengers, the unexpected and sudden listing of a ship by 15 or more degrees.  Unlike rough seas and high winds, these incidents happen without warning causing tremendous damage, and tossing anything not bolted down flying. Passengers standing on open decks and balconies will be sent flying, yet there has never been a single person reported overboard during any of the incidents.  I know there are many on this form like myself who have been on ships that roll 15-20+ degrees in rough seas, what I'm talking about is different. Imagine going from a 0 degree tilt to a 20 degree tilt in less than a second. This is the worse case scenario for someone going overboard, yet there haven't been any. In my research I found 9  incidents(there are more) of this occurring with the most recent being the Carnival Sunshine on Oct 28 of this year when one of its stabilizer failed. 

 

Others include: 

April 26, 2016 - Panagia Tinou, , Ventouris Sea Lines

April 21, 2010 - Carnival Ecstasy, , Carnival Cruise Lines

July 30, 2008 - Pacific Sun, , P&O Cruises

January 2, 2008 - Radiance Of The Seas, , Royal Caribbean Cruise Line

October 25, 2007 - Norwegian Star, , Norwegian Cruise Line

September 18, 2007 - Dream Princess, , Caspi Shipping

July 18, 2006 - Crown Princess, , Princess Cruises

February 4, 2006 - Grand Princes, , Princess Cruises

[Elaine5715]

You can't fix stupid is played out every day somewhere.  These are pictures at the Grand Canyon.  Those people out on the rocks aren't climbers with safety gear , just families in flip flops.  That is a kid sitting on the stone wall and that is the drop below.  

[The4Cruisers]

On ‎12‎/‎18‎/‎2018 at 2:23 PM, BoDidly said:

Yea , but what if one son was on the other sons shoulders and they were both drunk ? 😎

And someone left a discarded banana peel near the rail too?  SMH...

[momof3cruisers]

31 minutes ago, The4Cruisers said:

And someone left a discarded banana peel near the rail too?  SMH...

 

On December 18, 2018 at 1:23 PM, BoDidly said:

Yea , but what if one son was on the other sons shoulders and they were both drunk ? 😎

You know, on land, I could easily see them getting injured with one on the other's shoulders with no alcohol involved. And since they are 17 and 18, I think we'll pass on that part of the experiment. 😉 

 

As as for the banana peel, if they also used the same flooring as is in the Breeze Lido restaurant, we might have a winning combination. 

[PhillyFan33579]

On 12/17/2018 at 8:47 AM, sparks1093 said:

No, but they also don't spend money without a darn good reason. Look at what Carnival has done to change it's image and look how long it's taken to get where they are but even after all of that there are still many out there who say "Carnival is a party boat and I would never ever sail with them". 

 

Over the last few years Carnival has made a lot of changes that reinforces the party boat image in my opinion. Most of these things don’t matter to me, but Carnival has definitely moved away from pampering guests like they did in the past. No more table clothes in the MDR most nights, waiters rarely pull out seats for passengers in the MDR, waiters rarely place napkins on laps in the MDR, no more lobster on shorter cruises, room stewards only servicing cabins once a day when in the past it seemed like our cabin was serviced every time we left the room, etc. I still have fun cruising on Carnival, but they definitely don’t make you feel “special” like they did in the past. 

[sparks1093]

8 hours ago, PhillyFan33579 said:

 

Over the last few years Carnival has made a lot of changes that reinforces the party boat image in my opinion. Most of these things don’t matter to me, but Carnival has definitely moved away from pampering guests like they did in the past. No more table clothes in the MDR most nights, waiters rarely pull out seats for passengers in the MDR, waiters rarely place napkins on laps in the MDR, no more lobster on shorter cruises, room stewards only servicing cabins once a day when in the past it seemed like our cabin was serviced every time we left the room, etc. I still have fun cruising on Carnival, but they definitely don’t make you feel “special” like they did in the past. 

What do any of those changes have to do with a party boat image? They may not make you feel special, but they have nothing to do with being a party boat. 

[PhillyFan33579]

21 minutes ago, sparks1093 said:

What do any of those changes have to do with a party boat image? They may not make you feel special, but they have nothing to do with being a party boat. 

 

It has everything to do with Carnival’s ships being viewed as party boats. There is no doubt Carnival is marketing to a different demographic than they did in the past.  They are no longer focusing on their ships being a place to relax and a place to be pampered. Now they are focusing on their ships being the place to be to have fun, and drinking goes right along with that focus. If you don’t think Carnival ships focus on a drinking atmosphere, you haven’t cruised on Carnival lately.  There are obviously exceptions to this like journey cruises, but overall drinking is a big part of the atmosphere Carnival has created on their ships.  Personally I don’t view this as a bad thing, which is why I am sailing on Miracle tomorrow and why I have 15 more cruises booked on Carnival thru the Summer of 2020. 

[LMaxwell]

Not sure why cruise lines still refuse to install MOB systems on new builds.  They may not be 100% fail safe but they are proven to be effective.  Is it a cost thing?  Liability?  

[AdGuyMG]

35 minutes ago, PhillyFan33579 said:

 

They are no longer focusing on their ships being a place to relax and a place to be pampered. Now they are focusing on their ships being the place to be to have fun, and drinking goes right along with that focus.

Their messaging and commercials from the 80's, 90's and 2000's doesn't seem to focus on relaxation and pampering.

 

www.youtube.com/watch?v=p8-zQ50Wuqw

 

www.youtube.com/watch?v=_dczEWKtbL8

 

www.youtube.com/watch?v=ioXovXY1U7w

 

youtube.com/watch?v=fhW51x-E0aY