Overboard incidents, will they ever change the design of decks?

[sparks1093]

1 hour ago, PhillyFan33579 said:

 

It has everything to do with Carnival’s ships being viewed as party boats. There is no doubt Carnival is marketing to a different demographic than they did in the past.  They are no longer focusing on their ships being a place to relax and a place to be pampered. Now they are focusing on their ships being the place to be to have fun, and drinking goes right along with that focus. If you don’t think Carnival ships focus on a drinking atmosphere, you haven’t cruised on Carnival lately.  There are obviously exceptions to this like journey cruises, but overall drinking is a big part of the atmosphere Carnival has created on their ships.  Personally I don’t view this as a bad thing, which is why I am sailing on Miracle tomorrow and why I have 15 more cruises booked on Carnival thru the Summer of 2020. 

Got off the Pride in February, thanks. I've seen plenty of drinking on Carnival but nothing that has been outrageously excessive or party-esque. Their focus seems to be in offering an unpretentious cruise for families. Drinking is a large part of any cruise and any cruise line's bottom line. I cruise them because they offer me a good value for my money and they make me feel special enough without all of the pampering. 

[robc1972]

10 hours ago, PhillyFan33579 said:

 

Over the last few years Carnival has made a lot of changes that reinforces the party boat image in my opinion. Most of these things don’t matter to me, but Carnival has definitely moved away from pampering guests like they did in the past. No more table clothes in the MDR most nights, waiters rarely pull out seats for passengers in the MDR, waiters rarely place napkins on laps in the MDR, no more lobster on shorter cruises, room stewards only servicing cabins once a day when in the past it seemed like our cabin was serviced every time we left the room, etc. I still have fun cruising on Carnival, but they definitely don’t make you feel “special” like they did in the past. 

 

Lack of tablecloths in the dining room makes it a party atmosphere, or has any impact on dinner for that matter?

Just off Victory and they pulled both our chairs out when we were sat in the dining room every night.

These days with everyone screaming sexual harrasment maybe they dont put the napkins on your lap anymore for fear of a that? Dont know, dont really care about the napkin thing anyway.

I am fine with my room being serviced once a day because we arent messy. I dont need it done more than that but you can request twice a day if you want, it is an option.

 

Bottom line you get what you pay for in the service.

You can either do a 7 day western Caribbean balcony in March on Celebrity for 1500 or essentially the same cruise on Carnival for 775. At the lower price you will get more families and young people looking for a good time.

Personally I prefer to be on a boat where everyone is having a good time instead of the stuffy older crowd usually found on Celebrity.

[Barb Nahoumi]

On 12/15/2018 at 5:12 PM, awreaper said:

I can't ever remember an instance where a cruiser was minding their own business walking around the deck and just fell off the boat, even in rough seas.  If it became that rough I assume they would not let anyone out on deck.  If someone wants to do something stupid or wants to commit suicide they will find a way.

 

We were on a cruise last October into early November where we experienced some rough weather.  During those times the ship did not let passengers on the promenade or pool decks, "for our safety."  

[Barb Nahoumi]

7 hours ago, robc1972 said:

 

Lack of tablecloths in the dining room makes it a party atmosphere, or has any impact on dinner for that matter?

Just off Victory and they pulled both our chairs out when we were sat in the dining room every night.

These days with everyone screaming sexual harrasment maybe they dont put the napkins on your lap anymore for fear of a that? Dont know, dont really care about the napkin thing anyway.

I am fine with my room being serviced once a day because we arent messy. I dont need it done more than that but you can request twice a day if you want, it is an option.

 

Bottom line you get what you pay for in the service.

You can either do a 7 day western Caribbean balcony in March on Celebrity for 1500 or essentially the same cruise on Carnival for 775. At the lower price you will get more families and young people looking for a good time.

Personally I prefer to be on a boat where everyone is having a good time instead of the stuffy older crowd usually found on Celebrity.

Even though we're older, we'd rather be with people having a good time,  than the stuffy atmosphere.

[chengkp75]

53 minutes ago, Barb Nahoumi said:

 

We were on a cruise last October into early November where we experienced some rough weather.  During those times the ship did not let passengers on the promenade or pool decks, "for our safety."  

That's to keep people from being blown or washed off their feet and slid into the walls or railings and injured.  That is a long way from losing someone overboard.  Again, gravity has this ability to keep you below the railings, even if "swimming" in a wave.

[CoolOne56]

On ‎12‎/‎16‎/‎2018 at 4:04 PM, chengkp75 said:

RCI or Carnival had a small girl fall two or three decks after climbing over a railing in the atrium this year, if I remember right.

It was on a Carnival ship last October.  We heard about it while we were waiting in the hotel lobby to leave for the port.  A woman and her son came into the hotel and was telling us about it, they were on the ship where it happened.  The little girl stood on a chair to look over the railing & fell. Sad. I don't remember which ship this it was.

 

[Elaine5715]

23 minutes ago, CoolOne56 said:

It was on a Carnival ship last October.  We heard about it while we were waiting in the hotel lobby to leave for the port.  A woman and her son came into the hotel and was telling us about it, they were on the ship where it happened.  The little girl stood on a chair to look over the railing & fell. Sad. I don't remember which ship this it was.

 

The information was posted twice.

[Ocean Spirit]

I personally feel the railings are plenty high and I doubt that they will be making any huge changes of making structures like cages.  At least I hope they don't.   I had a student that I over heard talking to friends about climbing down to the cabin below them off the balcony when she and friends went on a Carnival cruise..... This was a bright 25 year old gal, conducted herself in mature manner however drinking causes people to lose good judgement.

The whole question evolved from the resent incident of a passenger falling off the ship.   I began thinking about the drowning that occurred a few years back on one of the Carnival ships.  (One of my pet peeves is parents not watching their children in the pool since I was trained as a lifeguard.  I find myself falling into that role of scanning the pool area for children that might start struggling. )  On Royal Caribbean after a drowning they implemented having lifeguards station at their pools.  I began to wonder since there are few drowning but a major change was made about the safety at the pools, would they also begin to change the ships design due to falls.

 

Edited December 23, 2018 by Ocean Spirit

[AmazedByCruising]

17 minutes ago, Ocean Spirit said:

One of my pet peeves is parents not watching their children in the pool since I was trained as a lifeguard.  I find myself falling into that role of scanning the pool area for children that might start struggling.

 

There's are Youtube channel about "can you spot the drowning child", which is really hard even as a game. I have so much respect for the lifeguards!

 

Maybe you can shed some light on this. Why is that particular pool, after having tens of recorded near-incidents, allowed to operate at all? IMHO kids who can't swim shouldn't be at the deep end in the first place and this is even a wave pool. I wonder what a US judge would say after the first drowning kid, if there's such an obvious danger that was used to make a series of videos instead of changing policy on who was allowed in the pool and who wasn't.  The all too famous hot coffee case is peanuts compared to allowing kids who can't swim in this pool. 

[CdrescherRBL152]

On 12/18/2018 at 2:23 PM, BoDidly said:

Yea , but what if one son was on the other sons shoulders and they were both drunk ? 😎

That would be cause of they were stupid. 

 

[sparks1093]

11 hours ago, Barb Nahoumi said:

 

We were on a cruise last October into early November where we experienced some rough weather.  During those times the ship did not let passengers on the promenade or pool decks, "for our safety."  

Yes, they did the same thing when we had to come back through the remnants of a nor'easter on Pride in February. Even the Navy would secure the weather decks if it was too rough.

[IPlayWithString]

19 hours ago, AmazedByCruising said:

Why is that particular pool, after having tens of recorded near-incidents, allowed to operate at all? IMHO kids who can't swim shouldn't be at the deep end in the first place and this is even a wave pool.

Because if they shut it down, they'd have people complaining and in order to take it out and replace with..IDK..anything else..they'd have to put the ship into dry dock (which I'm sure they do periodically anyway) and lose revenue.

 

And I agree with you...if your kid is GOING to be in the pool, you either need to be in with them or at the very least, watching them closely.

I live in an HOA where we had to start hiring security guards every summer because in addition to the senseless, stupid vandalism we'd get every year, we would have parents drive up and drop off a van load of 8-10 yr olds and just leave them there unsupervised for HOURS. EVERY day. I watched it happen a few times...Mom or Dad would drive up, walk in with the kids with some snacks, sunscreen, towels, etc and then tell the kids to have a good time before driving off. I got into a confrontation one time with a dad who insisted it was perfectly OK (it was NOT) to let his 7 yr old daughter and her friend swim unattended JUST because I was in the pool along with a handful of other adults (they were drinking and doing their own thing and not paying any attention to the 7 yr old, nor was I paying attention because my son was a toddler and I was keeping an eye on him).

[SwordBlazer Cruising]

The responsibility for kids in the water falls with the parents full stop. 

[Elaine5715]

4 hours ago, IPlayWithString said:

Because if they shut it down, they'd have people complaining and in order to take it out and replace with..IDK..anything else..they'd have to put the ship into dry dock (which I'm sure they do periodically anyway) and lose revenue.

 

And I agree with you...if your kid is GOING to be in the pool, you either need to be in with them or at the very least, watching them closely.

I live in an HOA where we had to start hiring security guards every summer because in addition to the senseless, stupid vandalism we'd get every year, we would have parents drive up and drop off a van load of 8-10 yr olds and just leave them there unsupervised for HOURS. EVERY day. I watched it happen a few times...Mom or Dad would drive up, walk in with the kids with some snacks, sunscreen, towels, etc and then tell the kids to have a good time before driving off. I got into a confrontation one time with a dad who insisted it was perfectly OK (it was NOT) to let his 7 yr old daughter and her friend swim unattended JUST because I was in the pool along with a handful of other adults (they were drinking and doing their own thing and not paying any attention to the 7 yr old, nor was I paying attention because my son was a toddler and I was keeping an eye on him).

As a non swimmer and having no kids, I wouldn't  even notice other people's kids and certainly would not be watching them.  

[IPlayWithString]

I have anxiety and even when my own kid (who is now a teenager and wouldn't go near the pool if you paid him. Well MAYBE if you paid him) isn't with me at the pool, I still kinda tend to get nervous when other people's kids are doing stuff they shouldn't be and no adult/parent is stopping them.

 

Like the idiot teenage boys who think it's a GREAT idea to race across 20 ft or so of concrete decking to do front flips over girls they're trying to impress who are lying on the apron of the pool (it's about 6 inches deep and they often lay there to be in the water but also not in the water, I guess. IDK.). 

 

One of these dadgummed days one of those stupid boys is going to break his neck or get seriously injured and then every adult who happens to be there (parent of the kid or not) is going to be on the hook for liability since nobody stopped him from acting like a fool.

[Mediterranean_Honeymooner]

On 12/15/2018 at 9:53 PM, Tapi said:

Even though railings are high enough, the spacing between each rail seems big enough to fit a child. When my kids were younger, I’d be deathly afraid to be out on deck with them. Ships with glass rather than metal railings across make me feel safer, both for me and for the kids. 

 

I will say that I did worry about this on our first cruise with our kids.  My daughter had just turned 2 and, like most toddlers, was headstrong and not always a good listener.  I worried she would pull away from me and go over. The fears were mostly unfounded. Yes, she would have fit between the rails.  But I just kept a firm hand on her if we were near any railings and most of the time we were by the pool area (which had plexiglass walls) or on the interior of the ship.

[sparks1093]

59 minutes ago, IPlayWithString said:

I have anxiety and even when my own kid (who is now a teenager and wouldn't go near the pool if you paid him. Well MAYBE if you paid him) isn't with me at the pool, I still kinda tend to get nervous when other people's kids are doing stuff they shouldn't be and no adult/parent is stopping them.

 

Like the idiot teenage boys who think it's a GREAT idea to race across 20 ft or so of concrete decking to do front flips over girls they're trying to impress who are lying on the apron of the pool (it's about 6 inches deep and they often lay there to be in the water but also not in the water, I guess. IDK.). 

 

One of these dadgummed days one of those stupid boys is going to break his neck or get seriously injured and then every adult who happens to be there (parent of the kid or not) is going to be on the hook for liability since nobody stopped him from acting like a fool.

I don't believe the law imparts a liability to anyone to keep an unrelated person from being a fool. If their parents can't control them no one else can.

[chengkp75]

On 12/23/2018 at 2:42 AM, Ocean Spirit said:

I personally feel the railings are plenty high and I doubt that they will be making any huge changes of making structures like cages.  At least I hope they don't.   I had a student that I over heard talking to friends about climbing down to the cabin below them off the balcony when she and friends went on a Carnival cruise..... This was a bright 25 year old gal, conducted herself in mature manner however drinking causes people to lose good judgement.

The whole question evolved from the resent incident of a passenger falling off the ship.   I began thinking about the drowning that occurred a few years back on one of the Carnival ships.  (One of my pet peeves is parents not watching their children in the pool since I was trained as a lifeguard.  I find myself falling into that role of scanning the pool area for children that might start struggling. )  On Royal Caribbean after a drowning they implemented having lifeguards station at their pools.  I began to wonder since there are few drowning but a major change was made about the safety at the pools, would they also begin to change the ships design due to falls.

 

It's a long way into a deep wallet between hiring a couple of extra crew (maybe $40k/year for both), or simply reassigning a couple of crew from a different department to be "lifeguards" (who have no training), and structural changes to the design of ship railings or how balconies are laid out that would cost hundreds of millions.

[Elaine5715]

1 hour ago, chengkp75 said:

It's a long way into a deep wallet between hiring a couple of extra crew (maybe $40k/year for both), or simply reassigning a couple of crew from a different department to be "lifeguards" (who have no training), and structural changes to the design of ship railings or how balconies are laid out that would cost hundreds of millions.

On Carnival, the crew watching the pools, are "monitors" Pretty sure more of a response to complaints to CG about diapered babies in pools.

[TruckerDave]

the OP....looking for a solution to a problem that doesn't exist. 🙄

[coevan]

On ‎12‎/‎22‎/‎2018 at 6:56 AM, LMaxwell said:

Not sure why cruise lines still refuse to install MOB systems on new builds.  They may not be 100% fail safe but they are proven to be effective.  Is it a cost thing?  Liability?  

 

 

Of course they have MOB systems. My 40' boats chartplotter has an MOB. My $100 Garmin hand held has MOB as well. All the MOB does is mark the latitude and longitude of the MOB. Doesn't help to much at 20+ knots and no brakes.

[chengkp75]

On 12/22/2018 at 1:56 PM, LMaxwell said:

Not sure why cruise lines still refuse to install MOB systems on new builds.  They may not be 100% fail safe but they are proven to be effective.  Is it a cost thing?  Liability?  

Can you cite some statistics to show that the automated MOB systems are "proven to be effective"?  Have there been any cases where a person overboard was detected by these systems?

[LMaxwell]

1 hour ago, coevan said:

 

 

Of course they have MOB systems. My 40' boats chartplotter has an MOB. My $100 Garmin hand held has MOB as well. All the MOB does is mark the latitude and longitude of the MOB. Doesn't help to much at 20+ knots and no brakes.

Not talking about digital waypoint marker; that's been built into GPS, and prior to that Loran, for decades.  I am talking about the MOB systems that sight along exterior of ship using thermal imaging and motion sensors to look for a person falling outside of the ship.  

 

https://www.ship-technology.com/features/setting-international-standards-man-overboard-systems/

 

It would seem wider usage of these systems would increase rescue rate above 13%.  Surely not 100%, but the purpose of technology is to improve our lives and this is one that certainly could. 

 

https://www.puretechsystems.com/man-overboard-detection.html

 

Edited December 25, 2018 by LMaxwell

[LMaxwell]

30 minutes ago, chengkp75 said:

Can you cite some statistics to show that the automated MOB systems are "proven to be effective"?  Have there been any cases where a person overboard was detected by these systems?

No, I can't.  that is why I asked the question I asked about why these systems are not being implemented on cruise ships; although it appears MSC has them on a new build so they must believe the efficacy, or were sold a bill of goods by a vendor?  I think this is interesting and something the industry needs to explore further 

 

https://www.businesswire.com/news/home/20171023006522/en/Breaking-News-ICV-Man-Overboard-Detection-Systems

 

Edit:  As "wearable" SeaPass/RoomKey/RFID technology is spread around, perhaps there will be systems that are looking for RFID within certain distances of the vessel while it is traveling.  They mine data from this for logistics/people flow/advertising, they could set up a perimeter, possibly, to look for RFID signals 

Edited December 25, 2018 by LMaxwell

[chengkp75]

Disney has them as well, but its awfully hard to prove a negative.  Just because the system is onboard, and the ship has not had anyone go overboard, does not prove effectiveness of the system.  Perhaps MSC merely wants some good PR, or is looking towards possible future stiffer requirements under US law.  The MSC system also appears to be merely a video capture system, not like some of the other systems that try to use radar as well as thermography to determine if an object is human.  I believe it uses some types of AI and video recognition to determine if an object seen in video is a person.   I've even debated with one manufacturer of these systems here on CC, when they claimed the system could determine the "mass" of an object by radar.  They backed off the claim when they actually talked to their technical team.

 

Fine, you think industry needs to explore this further, then the companies trying to push the technology need to provide it free of charge to the cruise lines for a length of time sufficient to show that it has indeed helped to detect someone going overboard, without causing undue financial hardship due to false alarms.  Not just that a ship has the system and no one has gone overboard on that ship during the time the system was onboard.  Heck, we had a vendor come to NCL offering to replace all of our flourescent lights with LEDs, free of charge for both materials and labor, in return for a percentage of the energy savings over the next ten years.  That is the kind of incentive that would attract the cruise lines to this technology.

 

As for RFID as wearable or cabin card, if that was common knowledge, do you think that would stop a person consciously trying to commit suicide?  Just dump the RFID device.