Edenites Deserve Respect Too

[B-Rizzle]

It bugs me that people are referring to performers from Eden as "those people", and promising to tell them to "go away", if they perform in other parts of the ship. I don't even like the term "Edenites", it really doesn't help. They are all really trying, and it takes time to get this all down, and have a knack for who to approach. If we put in some effort to understand their world we fit right in, and make them feel quite warm, too.

Right???

 

I seriously just think you have to be more approachable! I don't like that that there is this fear of outsiders coming through on this thread, but when the ship hits port and you become the outsiders, then it's ok.

 

Ugh, lets all try and be good people walk the other way if we don't like it. We're all privileged if we can cruise, and many of these performers come form poorer countries, and have this special place and opportunity to connect.

 

Edited December 21, 2018 by B-Rizzle

[Tao Diva]

Agree. So far, they sound like performers at a renaissance fair. Sure, a ren-fair can get pretty weird too. But you'll have a lot more fun if you join in and play along. It's all part of the experience. 

 

PS - I think Celebrity refers to them as "Edenists". 

 

Edited December 21, 2018 by Tao Diva
added the ps

[ohhbother]

You realize they’re paid performers,

right? When her shift is over,

Bloom goes back to being Brittany from

Minnesota - or whoever she is when she clocks out for the day. 

 

In my opinion, a comparison should never be drawn between performers on a cruise ship and actual, real people who live in the countries a cruise ship visits. It’s troubling - again, in my opinion. 

[kkmiausa]

I always enjoy the entertainers that we meet on Seabourn. They are not dressed in wild costumes and don't flit around chasing fireflies and uttering strange things , they just show up at the lounges and dance and interact with the other passengers.  They were actually way more friendly than most of the cruisers!  But they have general conversations with you, like where are you from, etc.

[B-Rizzle]

27 minutes ago, kkmiausa said:

I always enjoy the entertainers that we meet on Seabourn. They are not dressed in wild costumes and don't flit around chasing fireflies and uttering strange things , they just show up at the lounges and dance and interact with the other passengers.  They were actually way more friendly than most of the cruisers!  But they have general conversations with you, like where are you from, etc.

 

Whatever good is there can be credited to passengers not talking to each other because the dancers do it for you?  Eden is no different than Disney where everyone is in character, and it helps you break ice with your fellow passengers instead.

Edited December 21, 2018 by B-Rizzle

[Tao Diva]

I find it startling that you wouldn't consider performers as "actual real people". It's not like any one is saying that there really is a person named "Bloom" from planet EDEN that eats dragonflies. But she is still an actual real person, practicing improvisational performance art. Some people (myself for instance) may think it sounds like fun to play along. If you don't, no worries. Even my 5 year old granddaughter had enough social grace to politely tell Goofy that she would rather he not come too close. (He is kind of big and overwhelming.) It wouldn't take too much effort for an adult to respectfully decline having their head fondled as part of the act. No need to get all indignant about it.

[ohhbother]

1 hour ago, Tao Diva said:

I find it startling that you wouldn't consider performers as "actual real people". It's not like any one is saying that there really is a person named "Bloom" from planet EDEN that eats dragonflies. But she is still an actual real person, practicing improvisational performance art. Some people (myself for instance) may think it sounds like fun to play along. If you don't, no worries. Even my 5 year old granddaughter had enough social grace to politely tell Goofy that she would rather he not come too close. (He is kind of big and overwhelming.) It wouldn't take too much effort for an adult to respectfully decline having their head fondled as part of the act. No need to get all indignant about it.

 

You missed my point entirely. The OP drew a comparison between the Eden characters and the people who live in the ports tourists visit. That is what I find troubling. It has nothing to do with the performers playing the characters. I’m sure they’re lovely, talented people who are 

performing the job they’ve been given. 

[B-Rizzle]

16 minutes ago, ohhbother said:

 

You missed my point entirely. The OP drew a comparison between the Eden characters and the people who live in the ports tourists visit. That is what I find troubling. It has nothing to do with the performers playing the characters. I’m sure they’re lovely, talented people who are 

performing the job they’ve been given. 

 

No!  I was saying that we have no right to tell the Eden performers to "go away" and act like they're the intruders. The people in the tourists ports could view us the same way, like "Go away, and stay on that ship where you belong."

 

Eden DEFINITELY isn't right for everyone, and thousands of people getting off cruise ships all at once isn't for everyone either. I think that's just become very normal, but we can at least pay it forward.

[Host Jazzbeau]

2 hours ago, B-Rizzle said:

 

Whatever good is there can be credited to passengers not talking to each other because the dancers do it for you?  Eden is no different than Disney where everyone is in character, and it helps you break ice with your fellow passengers instead.

 

Exactly.  Which is why I have never and will never sail on Disney.

[Lilikins]

3 hours ago, B-Rizzle said:

It bugs me that people are referring to performers from Eden as "those people", and promising to tell them to "go away", if they perform in other parts of the ship. I don't even like the term "Edenites", it really doesn't help. They are all really trying, and it takes time to get this all down, and have a knack for who to approach. If we put in some effort to understand their world we fit right in, and make them feel quite warm, too.

Right???

 

I applaud you for trying to teach common decency to adults using sound logic but as they say....haters gonna hate. 🤷‍♀️

[Lilikins]

2 hours ago, Tao Diva said:

I find it startling that you wouldn't consider performers as "actual real people". It's not like any one is saying that there really is a person named "Bloom" from planet EDEN that eats dragonflies. But she is still an actual real person, practicing improvisational performance art. Some people (myself for instance) may think it sounds like fun to play along. If you don't, no worries. Even my 5 year old granddaughter had enough social grace to politely tell Goofy that she would rather he not come too close. (He is kind of big and overwhelming.) It wouldn't take too much effort for an adult to respectfully decline having their head fondled as part of the act. No need to get all indignant about it.

Also I just wanted to add how impressed I am with your granddaughter. My parents have a photo of me crying hysterically in front of Goofy when I was around that age. Good for her for having more social grace than many adults.

[B-Rizzle]

10 minutes ago, Lilikins said:

Also I just wanted to add how impressed I am with your granddaughter. My parents have a photo of me crying hysterically in front of Goofy when I was around that age. Good for her for having more social grace than many adults.

 

Right? If I had a dollar for every time i saw parents without social grace pushing their kids, I'd be a wealthy woman!

Edited December 21, 2018 by B-Rizzle

[cgolf1]

8 hours ago, B-Rizzle said:

 

No!  I was saying that we have no right to tell the Eden performers to "go away" and act like they're the intruders. The people in the tourists ports could view us the same way, like "Go away, and stay on that ship where you belong."

 

Eden DEFINITELY isn't right for everyone, and thousands of people getting off cruise ships all at once isn't for everyone either. I think that's just become very normal, but we can at least pay it forward.

 

Actually we do, and it comes down to personality types. I am an introvert around people I don’t know and generally even shy away from hugs from relatives at family gatherings. 

 

I dont like people invading my personal space, so I will politely decline any interaction with these folks. When I am onboard I interact with my family and not others. We also try to get our own table while dining too. 

 

This will be great for some, just not all. I don’t expect this to ruin my cruise, or anything, just something I won’t do like not eating in a specialty resteraunt.

 

Once a performer tried to bring me up onstage, I refused, does that make me a bad person? I wasn’t comfortable with the idea at all. 

[justcrusn]

The performance art is appropriate in its venue. If you enter Eden and get approached, then you knew to expect that right?

Where it gets weird is when you’re at cafe el bacio for instance and the performers find you there and “do their thing”. You might NOT expect or want that as you enjoy your beverage and book hoping for some quiet time.

Do whatever in it’s venue, but please don’t run about the ship.

[phoenix_dream]

I agree that when in Eden, do what the Edenites do.  But when I am elsewhere about the ship, I do not want some stranger coming up to me and touching me or doing some other strange approach.  If that's what they are doing, I hope it stops.  I would never rudely shoo them away, but I definitely would not like it at all.  And I agree that to compare them to the poorer people we meet in ports is ridiculous.  They are paid performers, and for the record most of the performers on Celebrity ships tend to be from 'first world' countries, not the less affluent countries as most of the other staff.  Does not mean manners don't still count, but let's get our facts straight if we plan to criticize.

[Stateroom_Sailor]

12 hours ago, B-Rizzle said:

I don't even like the term "Edenites", it really doesn't help.

 

How about, "Majestic Forest Performers"?  Amazing that we already need new politically correct terms, for this venue.  

[bEwAbG]

We're just supposed to let people bother us because they're being paid to do so?  No thanks. The only people who would possibly defend being willingly annoyed by performers are relatives of the performers, the entertainment staff who came up with the ill-advised concept, or passengers who have no boundaries. I don't care how hard someone is "trying" when the result is that they're making people feel uncomfortable. Remember who is paying the bills. 

 

[cruisefam38]

 

From this observer's perspective, the complaints from members of this Internet community about Eden performers crossing interpersonal boundaries have been from episodes that occurred outside the confines of the ship space designated "EDEN".  To me, this means that when people chose not to enter that designated space, they did so for personally meaningful reasons, yet felt the EDEN EXPERICNCE extended and intruded into their vacation,  they lost the ability to choose, and they temporally lost a sense of agency in that situation. B-Rizzle, you say it "bugs you" that members of this community aren't feeling, thinking, and behaving in the way you think they should.  You then go on to challenge those community members to stop and consider how other people feel.  It is unclear to this community member in what ways you extended that same consideration to myself and fellow members of CC, and cruisers not unlike yourself. 

There is a Renaissance Festival each autumn here in the state of North Carolina.  We can choose to go, and after the first time, we will return to RenFest knowing that we will see people dressed in unusual, clever, poorly arranged, and sometimes strikingly attractive ways.  We can also expect that wandering performers will attempt to interact with us, typically in amusing ways.  Even in the parking lot, we will see other paying customers getting their costumes ready for the day as if they are entering a performance play, which they are, hence the name CosPlay.  We have spent time in New Orleans, Key West, and Orlando, where behavioral norms vary from those where we live.  We have never had anyone, not one performer, fellow tourist, or paying costumer, invite themselves to sit with us or invade our personal space (we have seen the occasional amusing drunk, and a couple of excessively inebriated people crawling Bourbon Street on their hands and knees).

The behavioral norms of those communities vary, and may or may not be written, however one learns what the norms are, and whether they are appealing or at least acceptable.  Seemingly, the cruise industry has evaluated its customers, or blatantly don't care about their guests, because it has become an industry wide practice to sell, sell, sell drink and dining packages onboard.  Now it's the Eden performers pushing boundaries, figuratively and literally.  How much will passengers/guests tolerate?

Like cgolf1, I am introverted, although I can be outgoing and quite sociable.  By causes of nature and nurture, I tend to be considerate and respectful of others, and try to be kind to others.  Therefore, when the officers, staff and crew respect my personal space, and approach me with an awareness of my status as a paying customer on their ship, I appreciate it.  Historically, I have given high marks verbally and in writing to each member of the ship's personnel who have helped make our vacation experiences memorable.  When Celebrity, the cruise line in question, challenges and changes that interpersonal dynamic, and seemingly not only allows, but encourages staff members to interact with me, the paying customer, in disrespectful ways such as invading my personal space, they will receive feedback about my displeasure.  If the offending actions are not corrected, then Celebrity risks losing our business.  When enough travelers express their displeasure,  that effects the bottom line, which will have a highly negative impact on the performers you, B-Rizzle, seem to care about so strongly.   Or put another way, if Celebrity Cruise Line wants to push the boundaries in multiple ways to determine what the paying public will want, choose, tolerate, and/or reject, they can expect the paying public to respond, in written, verbal, and non-verbal ways.  This can be described as "pushback".

If the entertainment and travel industry, in their attempts to sustain and generate new business persists in employing unappealing business practices, then those companies will receive increasingly negative feedback.  Ultimately, as the saying goes, people will vote with their feet.  Where then, will the performers and all the other staff and crew be?

 

(As I read, and re-read through this statement, I realize I am addressing not only the OP and other participants on this thread, I want to express my concerns to Celebrity and Royal Caribbean.)

Edited December 21, 2018 by cruisefam38

[Rob the Cruiser]

Of course they are real people. So are telemarketers trying to re-sell timeshares or preaching to me that I should buy an extended warranty on my car or why I need a new roof. They are as welcome as a toothache.

 

Stay in Eden and leave us alone in other venues. 

[hcat]

21 minutes ago, Rob the Cruiser said:

Of course they are real people. So are telemarketers trying to re-sell timeshares or preaching to me that I should buy an extended warranty on my car or why I need a new roof. They are as welcome as a toothache.

 

Stay in Eden and leave us alone in other venues. 

Agree...

We did not sign on for a Renaissance or Fringe Fair...a Disney Cruise,  Sesame Place, Fantasy Fest or  a Performance Art festival roaming  throughout the ship. We do not appreciate anyone disrupting our peace and quiet, and personal  space and hope Celebrity curtails  it.

 

  There are events  in the CLUB for role playing activities,  and the dinner  show in  the EDEN restaurant for the Edgy stuff. There is no reason  to expand the "EDENISTS" realm beyond the EDEN restauarant. ( I believe  that term  was a Celebrity word.... a play on words  "Hedonists" to match the Sinful theme of EDEN Restaurant).

 

 EDEN  itself is a beautiful space for ALL guests...not just the fringe element, esp because there is no other place mellow place where everyone can gather during the day!  Maybe the  private Eden  Restaurant can  be  used as a bar during the day where the characters play and entertain!

 

A good Cruise Director and Activities staff  are the ones we expect to run the programs, and not just ones that require  us to interact with out tablets in isolation,

( the Lazy way)  

 

Pitiful that some people need fanciful characters to facilitate human interaction!

[B-Rizzle]

Oh my gosh, I seriously wish we could leave this type of behavior at home. I feel like Celebrity is giving us a test and we're failing. I for one am glad they're here!

 

 

[richsea]

I just watched a you tube video of a performance. To each his own. That’s why they make vanilla, chocolate, & strawberry. I was reminded of a trip I took with Mr. Leary back in the 60s. Far out, man; like, can you dig it?

[hcat]

20 minutes ago, B-Rizzle said:

Oh my gosh, I seriously wish we could leave this type of behavior at home. I feel like Celebrity is giving us a test and we're failing. I for one am glad they're here!

 

 

Just curious about how long  you have been a Celebrity Cruiser?  Many times this concept has been tried and failed.

We,ll see how it goes this time around..

 

I am moving on from this conversation  to give others space to weigh in....will be back after our cruise next month!

[boscobeans]

2 hours ago, hcat said:

Agree...

We did not sign on for a Renaissance or Fringe Fair...a Disney Cruise,  Sesame Place, Fantasy Fest or  a Performance Art festival roaming  throughout the ship.  

Pitiful that some people need fanciful characters to facilitate human interaction!

 

Rather than involve myself with people who dress and act like characters from A Midsummer's Night Dream just to break the ice, I find a smile and a few words while in an elevator seated at a bar or in a lounge a lot easier. "Enjoying you cruise so far? That cocktail looks interesting? Will you be going ashore today? "

 

 

[hcat]

36 minutes ago, richsea said:

I just watched a you tube video of a performance. To each his own. That’s why they make vanilla, chocolate, & strawberry. I was reminded of a trip I took with Mr. Leary back in the 60s. Far out, man; like, can you dig it?

Fabulous Mr Kite!

I watched the Affluent Journeys video on U....tube.  Boring!

Edited December 21, 2018 by hcat