Stay Tuned - Extra Fee for Second Entree

[Stumptowngal]

I find it entirely fair that Holland is trying a new scenario by charging $10 for a second entree.  They say they will still happily provide extra starters and desserts at no charge. Where on land can you go to a restaurant with tableclothes and menus and be waited on by staff and expect to get a free extra entree?  If that is the desired type of dining, simply go to the buffet where you can get 2nds or even 3rds of anything.

 

I’d like to think that maybe a decent quality of food could be preserved in the MDRs by limiting one entree per person at no extra charge.

[villauk]

4 hours ago, cruiserchuck said:

We usually order a side dish of grilled or steamed vegetables to share with dinner.  I would not be too happy paying extra for that.  

 

 

We always order a dish of vegetables to accompany our meal.

 

When our children were small and we came over to the States on holiday (mainly to Florida), we always asked for vegetables with our meals. Every single time we were given broccoli, to the point where our young children asked if it was the only vegetable they had in America 🤣.

Edited March 9, 2019 by villauk

[yorky]

Never had more than one main course so it’s not an issue for us. I would agree with others though that the waste in the buffet is embarrassing at times. Plates piled high with food with half of it left when people could have just been sensible and gone back for more if needed. Given we cruise to places where a percentage of the population can hardly afford to eat it’s not great.

[tallnthensome]

5 hours ago, Stumptowngal said:

I find it entirely fair that Holland is trying a new scenario by charging $10 for a second entree.  They say they will still happily provide extra starters and desserts at no charge. Where on land can you go to a restaurant with tableclothes and menus and be waited on by staff and expect to get a free extra entree?  If that is the desired type of dining, simply go to the buffet where you can get 2nds or even 3rds of anything.

 

I’d like to think that maybe a decent quality of food could be preserved in the MDRs by limiting one entree per person at no extra charge.

Sorry, this isn't a land restaurant and nobody is expecting or getting anything for free. Did you not forget about the thousands of dollars you and I paid for these cruises and the dining costs included in that fare? Where would you think having a second entree would be free? My cruise next year on Celebrity is almost $7K to take my wife and kids on. If I want a 2nd entree I feel I've paid plenty enough to have one without being asked for even more money. Please don't be an advocate or give any support to the cruise lines proposing this and costing us more money.  We don't need cheerleaders advocating for us to pay more money. 

[DirtyDawg]

I hope the cruise lines start charging extra for every little thing that I don't use on a cruise.

 

Second entre? Never order one - charge for it!💲

Deserts? Never eat them - charge for them!💲

Those production shows - Hate them, never go - charge for them!💲

Pool loungers? Only use them for a few hours on a 7 day cruise - charge by the hour!💲

 

Of course, for the things I love and use on a cruise................ 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited March 9, 2019 by DirtyDawg

[hcat]

3 hours ago, villauk said:

 

 

We always order a dish of vegetables to accompany our meal.

 

When our children were small and we came over to the States on holiday (mainly to Florida), we always asked for vegetables with our meals. Every single time we were given broccoli, to the point where our young children asked if it was the only vegetable they had in America 🤣.

Too funny! But that was so true.  Now there's more on the menu...

[hcat]

3 hours ago, villauk said:

 

 

Dbl post ...not sure what happened...sorry

Edited March 9, 2019 by hcat

[hcat]

13 hours ago, MizDemeanor said:

Was it Celebrity that tested an upcharge for a better cut of steak at one time becasue people were complaining? I am fuzzy on this, it might have been another line...anyone recall?

 

I  recall that Royal C introduced an upcharge in the MDR for a better steak...Not sure how it turned out.  MDR food was so bad on Oasis  when we tried that ship,  we went to Specialty Dining most of the time.. At least on X the MDR  food is much better based on our limited recent experiences there.

 

I believe there are also items in  Celebrity Tuscan for an upcharge...folks  are already  paying extra to dine there so that seems wrong to us...We stick to the menu.  lots to chose from

 

[MizDemeanor]

1 hour ago, tallnthensome said:

Sorry, this isn't a land restaurant and nobody is expecting or getting anything for free. Did you not forget about the thousands of dollars you and I paid for these cruises and the dining costs included in that fare? Where would you think having a second entree would be free? My cruise next year on Celebrity is almost $7K to take my wife and kids on. If I want a 2nd entree I feel I've paid plenty enough to have one without being asked for even more money. Please don't be an advocate or give any support to the cruise lines proposing this and costing us more money.  We don't need cheerleaders advocating for us to pay more money. 

 

To some extent this is where things can unravel and go in an unintended direction. If there is a determinable amount of waste that they are addressing and cannot curb with a surcharge to slow it down, then that will eventually go to the cost of the cruise. It may then get to a point where there are no seconds no matter what. 

[tallnthensome]

17 minutes ago, MizDemeanor said:

 

To some extent this is where things can unravel and go in an unintended direction. If there is a determinable amount of waste that they are addressing and cannot curb with a surcharge to slow it down, then that will eventually go to the cost of the cruise. It may then get to a point where there are no seconds no matter what. 

It could happen ...... The real waste is the 3 buffets a day. If they are going to charge me to add a pasta dish entree to my chicken entree in the MDR they might as well charge for 2nd trips up to the buffet then while they're at it. If they do any of the above then it's a bye from our family of four. No matter what excuse any cruise line gives you to raise prices, cut this, and cut that it's all in the name of profits at it's customers expense. They'd charge for a second entree in the MDR and raise cruise prices anyhow. The day we feel we aren't getting our money's worth will in fact be our last day .......

[txflood33]

2 hours ago, tallnthensome said:

Sorry, this isn't a land restaurant and nobody is expecting or getting anything for free. Did you not forget about the thousands of dollars you and I paid for these cruises and the dining costs included in that fare? Where would you think having a second entree would be free? My cruise next year on Celebrity is almost $7K to take my wife and kids on. If I want a 2nd entree I feel I've paid plenty enough to have one without being asked for even more money. Please don't be an advocate or give any support to the cruise lines proposing this and costing us more money.  We don't need cheerleaders advocating for us to pay more money. 

 

While most of this argument is laughable, you do make some unintended points.

 

Saying "I feel I've paid enough to have one{second entree}without being asked for more money" is just nonsense. Your 'feels' have zero to do with any company's profit and loss statement and their attempts to reduce the loss side. Your choosing to vacation with them and spend your money with them has a lot to do with their PnL statements...assuming the room you and your family would have stayed in goes unsold. I spent $15k for just myself and my wife on our last X cruise. I feel I spent enough to drive the boat and be Captain for the first sea day. See how silly that sounds.

 

Here is your unintended point that I see and I haven't seen mentioned...kids in the MDR....anyone feel free to correct me because I've never eaten in the MDR. Kids can be picky eaters. Is there a kids menu in the MDR? Will they charge for additional meals for kids? 

 

I do understand the Holland's approach to this as people are wasteful....I say this as someone who has worked in all levels of the food service industry in the states for 30 years. On the surface, I don't view this as them trying to increase profits...I view it as trying to reduce loss on the PnL statement. Looking at it from a bigger picture(and it's all assumptions based on experience), they're not trying to reduce the 1/2 eaten entrees that get ordered and tossed, they are trying to reduce the whole uncooked portions that got prepped and thrown out because they were not ordered. They know what items are popular...surf and turf are items mentioned more than once in this thread....so they prep based on actual usage on previous cruises. They may be trying to reduce the time spent sitting in the MDR. Maybe they are not hitting the meal times because people are sitting longer than expected. This could simply be a way to try to divert traffic and keep the bottlenecks to a minimum. 

 

There could be many underlying reasons this is being tested. I really doubt it's strictly to increase profit. I say that because I have sat in meetings to make decisions similar to this for companies I have worked for. I also think $10 is way too high to simply help curtail waste. That entree probably costs them $4-$5 for the food, the labor to make and serve, and the fuel to run the generators to light the dining room and such. A 50-60% profit margin is absurd on a single entree. If I had to guess, the price was set to deter people, not to make an extra $10 a plate. 

[TeeRick]

My guess is that the actual number of guests ordering two entrees is pretty small.  Just empirical observation.  On occasion my wife and I have ordered a third entree to split between the two of us particularly if it would fit as a nice side offering (something like risotto) to add to our main meals.  In Tuscan Grill they charge extra over an above the dining fee for the dry aged steak.

[MizDemeanor]

26 minutes ago, txflood33 said:

 

There could be many underlying reasons this is being tested. I really doubt it's strictly to increase profit. I had to guess, the price was set to deter people, not to make an extra $10 a plate. 

 

I am going with your guess on this one. I think its a deterrent as well. 

[tallnthensome]

18 minutes ago, txflood33 said:

 

While most of this argument is laughable, you do make some unintended points.

 

Saying "I feel I've paid enough to have one{second entree}without being asked for more money" is just nonsense. Your 'feels' have zero to do with any company's profit and loss statement and their attempts to reduce the loss side. Your choosing to vacation with them and spend your money with them has a lot to do with their PnL statements...assuming the room you and your family would have stayed in goes unsold. I spent $15k for just myself and my wife on our last X cruise. I feel I spent enough to drive the boat and be Captain for the first sea day. See how silly that sounds.

 

It's not laughable in the least. Asking for $10 more is an insult .......  Your comment comparing the line holding their hand out at the dinner table wanting $10 to feeling enough money spent to drive the boat is just silly even as a joke. If you want to volunteer to pull out your wallet at the dinner table and hand them another $10 then go right ahead.  This type of MDR scenario would be laughable to everyone in the MDR on every cruise line ..... up until now where some seemingly approve of this possible implementation. It's for profits, nothing more ......

[miched]

16 hours ago, mfs2k said:

I'm not a proponent of waste, but when I go out to eat at most US restaurants, my dinner entree is a lot larger than you get on a cruise ship.  Yes, I know this is why many Americans are fat.  and Yes, I know portions in other countries are generally smaller than in the USA (generalization)

 

Maybe if cruise lines stop shrinking the entree portion to the size of an appetizer, hungry gluttonous passengers wouldn't order two entrees. 

 

If someone is really hungry and they don't get enough food, they'll go to the buffet before or after dinner.

 

Hungry people will find food, one way or another on a cruise ship. 

 

 

Walking thru the buffet at 5 pm  from the bar one female seen another eating there and made a comment asking if she wasn’t dining in the MDR that night and she replied that they  were but it was only 5 and dinner wasn’t  until 6

 

Another time I went to the buffet at midnight to try a slice of pizza as I heard many say how great it was and wanted to see what the buffet had that late as we had one more cruise day left.  

 

There was a female ahead of me  and she grabbed the last piece.   She continued to stand  there waiting for the next batch to come out.  I made a comment about how it was suppose to be good and she agreed while trying to stuff the whole piece into her mouth.   Waited  about 10 minutes and now there were a few more in line.   The cook put out 3 pizzas with different topping.   The female proceeded to grab all 3 pizzas piling them onto her plate.   She then waddled away to her scooter as others yelled you could have left a little for the rest of us.  It fell on deaf ears.  

 

I doubt if any of them would have felt sorry for her waiting for a elevator on disembarkation day.  

 

Happy cruising 🌊🚢🇺🇸🌅

Edited March 9, 2019 by miched

[txflood33]

4 minutes ago, tallnthensome said:

It's not laughable in the least. Asking for $10 more is an insult .......  Your comment comparing the line holding their hand out at the dinner table wanting $10 to feeling enough money spent to drive the boat is just silly even as a joke. If you want to volunteer to pull out your wallet at the dinner table and hand them another $10 then go right ahead.  This type of MDR scenario would be laughable to everyone in the MDR on every cruise line ..... up until now where some seemingly approve of this possible implementation. It's for profits, nothing more ......

 

ok....again, I write profit and loss statements and coach business owners on how to improve each line item. I also laid out different scenarios where it's not just a profit grab.

 

While there may be profit involved, the test is about efficiency behind the scenes. Everyone said when Disney and Six Flags came out with fast pass...or whatever it's called where you can pay extra to jump the line...it was just a money grab. But those passes/belt loop clip ons/bracelet track guest movement in the parks. They can now staff better to run a more efficient park to help make your visit more enjoyable based off of the data gathered. 

 

I'm sorry you don't see the bigger picture of why companies run tests like this or do focus groups.

[MizDemeanor]

6 minutes ago, tallnthensome said:

This type of MDR scenario would be laughable to everyone in the MDR on every cruise line ..... up until now where some seemingly approve of this possible implementation. It's for profits, nothing more ......

 

Right now it is limited to Gala night where it seems that menu is lobster tail I am reading. I don't know anyhing about that line or their menus, or the size of the tails they serve, but it easy to see where people will want to have a second helping of a lobster tail and that coincidentally is likely the most expensive thing on the menu. 

 

Does my gut tell me that on this particular evening that lots of people want a second helping? Yes it does. There is a cost associated with that for the cruiseline and its probably a pretty big number. Right now if anyone on that line wants a seocnd during this test its going to be at a $10.00 upcharge. 

 

Will that deter people, yes I am thinking it will. Will some think that's OK, its worth it to me to have what I want, yes I think there will be a segment that feels that way and agrees to it. For sure though it is going to cut down on the seconds during the test. 

 

[bEwAbG]

9 minutes ago, MizDemeanor said:

Right now it is limited to Gala night where it seems that menu is lobster tail I am reading.

 

The test is on Gala night on just two of the ships.  The other two ships are every night. 

 

I, too, think it's a deterrent rather than a new revenue source.  As an analyst, I'd be interested to see the results from that perspective.  I'm on the HAL board and said as such, but you cannot reason with people when there are emotions involved (also evidenced above).  Those who want a second entree have their reasons, many of them valid.  But who knew so many people ordered more than one entree?  I never even considered it a possibility simply based on expectations set in restaurants in the real world.  At least on HAL, they also serve the same menu in the buffet in the evenings, so those who really, really want to get more could eat there.  I think that's another indication that it's more about deterring the behavior in the MDR rather than a cash grab. 

Edited March 9, 2019 by bEwAbG

[mfs2k]

22 minutes ago, miched said:

 

Walking thru the buffet at 5 pm  from the bar one female seen another eating there and made a comment asking if she wasn’t dining in the MDR that night and she replied that they  were but it was only 5 and dinner wasn’t  until 6

 

Another time I went to the buffet at midnight to try a slice of pizza as I heard many say how great it was and wanted to see what the buffet had that late as we had one more cruise day left.  

 

There was a female ahead of me  and she grabbed the last piece.   She continued to stand  there waiting for the next batch to come out.  I made a comment about how it was suppose to be good and she agreed while trying to stuff the whole piece into her mouth.   Waited  about 10 minutes and now there were a few more in line.   The cook put out 3 pizzas with different topping.   The female proceeded to grab all 3 pizzas piling them onto her plate.   She then waddled away to her scooter as others yelled you could have left a little for the rest of us.  It fell on deaf ears.  

 

I doubt if any of them would have felt sorry for her waiting for a elevator on disembarkation day.  

 

Happy cruising 🌊🚢🇺🇸🌅

 

I’m not a fan of food shaming anyone for eating too much or too little but I think rudeness shaming is ok. She was rude. 

[bEwAbG]

10 hours ago, CulverCityCruisers said:

I order two entrees many nights if I a not sure what I want.  Sometimes one sounds good but is awful and the 2nd is good so I have that.  What is the difference if you order and don't like something that you can't or won't eat, and then order something else instead?

 

There is a huge difference between your two scenarios.  Your second scenario sounds reasonable: ask for a replacement if what you order is not to your taste (without finishing it first).  Your first scenario is exactly what I think they're trying to deter.  As stated, you're ordering food that you will potentially never eat.  If you order two, like the first one, and then don't eat the second, then the second one is going to the fishes.  If that is "part of the cruise experience" (brought up a lot on the thread on the HAL board), then HAL is having to prepare a lot of extra food to accommodate this expectation.  Introducing a charge will ultimately change the behavior to be more in line with the standard land-based restaurant experience, in which true problems are corrected but they're not having to prepare as much of each dish.

[tallnthensome]

14 minutes ago, txflood33 said:

 

ok....again, I write profit and loss statements and coach business owners on how to improve each line item. I also laid out different scenarios where it's not just a profit grab.

 

While there may be profit involved, the test is about efficiency behind the scenes. Everyone said when Disney and Six Flags came out with fast pass...or whatever it's called where you can pay extra to jump the line...it was just a money grab. But those passes/belt loop clip ons/bracelet track guest movement in the parks. They can now staff better to run a more efficient park to help make your visit more enjoyable based off of the data gathered. 

 

I'm sorry you don't see the bigger picture of why companies run tests like this or do focus groups.

Reducing waste is the same as increasing profits. This has nothing to do about making anything more enjoyable for passengers. I understand their reasons for doing so and their approach. Instead of giving an example like Disney do tell how this is not a money grab in the MDR? Portions are small in the MDR and are easily finished by most people. This has nothing to do with waste ..... Again, look at the buffets. How much food is wasted there 3 times a day and why not focus there? 

 

""Over the years we have upgraded the menu, and we have experienced that guests occasionally order additional main courses they simply can't finish," a spokesperson for Holland America told Cruise Critic. "Holland America Line has made great efforts to reduce food waste and with this we can better determine if guests who order a second entree will truly enjoy it." This is how they word it .......

 

Ordering a second item cuts into profits and charging for it may be a deterrent as their excuse when the reality is it's there as another possible way to add to the profit of their bottom line no matter their verbiage. 

[pa-annie]

I doubt this move has much to do with food waist, rather another way to boost the bottom line.

 

We sometimes want to order a second entree to share, but only want the main course/protein (no sides/extras).  We have been told on most occasions that we have to get the whole entree.  So ... talk about waste.

 

The exception to this is lobster night, we can usually get an additional tail(s) only.

 

- BZ

[bEwAbG]

It's only a direct cash grab if those who order second entrees now continue to do so.  The other type of "cash grab" described is based on increased productivity and reduced cost to the ship, which is what they do in all departments.  Like with the thread on WiFi, there are plenty of people who would rather pay-as-you-go be the option versus increasing the base fare for everyone to subsidize a subset of the population.

 

Also, HAL continues to offer all-you-can-eat in the buffet.  They're just removing that option from the MDR. 

Edited March 9, 2019 by bEwAbG

[Stumptowngal]

18 minutes ago, bEwAbG said:

 

There is a huge difference between your two scenarios.  Your second scenario sounds reasonable: ask for a replacement if what you order is not to your taste (without finishing it first).  Your first scenario is exactly what I think they're trying to deter.  As stated, you're ordering food that you will potentially never eat.  If you order two, like the first one, and then don't eat the second, then the second one is going to the fishes.  If that is "part of the cruise experience" (brought up a lot on the thread on the HAL board), then HAL is having to prepare a lot of extra food to accommodate this expectation.  Introducing a charge will ultimately change the behavior to be more in line with the standard land-based restaurant experience, in which true problems are corrected but they're not having to prepare as much of each dish.

Well said!

[tallnthensome]

19 minutes ago, pa-annie said:

I doubt this move has much to do with food waist, rather another way to boost the bottom line.

 

We sometimes want to order a second entree to share, but only want the main course/protein (no sides/extras).  We have been told on most occasions that we have to get the whole entree.  So ... talk about waste.

 

The exception to this is lobster night, we can usually get an additional tail(s) only.

 

- BZ

 ^^^^^ Correct. Some lines don't even offer lobster in the MDR at all anymore except for a $20 fee. I doubt HAL wants to give anyone two for "free" for that matter. Instead of just saying they want more money for another one they'll say "it's to reduce waste" just to make it sound oh so nice and they're doing the world a favor ....... Pffff ......