Extremely Poor behavior in Oceanview Cafe

[DebInAntigua]

1 hour ago, Stateroom_Sailor said:

 

The perpetrator seemed a bit tonedeaf to what was taking place, awkwardness stepping away, then returning to the family to reengage, yet never overly expressive emotionally.  As crew walked up, he had a blank stare, before turning to walk away.

 

Obviously we have no way of knowing if there was a mental illness component to the situation. But I do wonder if there wasn’t a bipolar issue, maybe?  When they go manic they can become very belligerent and rash, insulting and very hard to calm down. Afterward, they often don’t even realize how out of control they were or how much they offended others. I’ve personally seen this several times with one of the members of our extended family who is bipolar.

 

Changes to everyday routines and less sleep than normal (hello, vacation) can push otherwise stable bipolar people into a depressive or manic state. When manic, they don’t have much sense or foresight into the consequences of their actions. 

 

Not at all making an excuse for such horrible behavior. He should be disembarked. Just making an observation that if it wasn’t alcohol-related, maybe there was some aspect of mental illness that contributed to his behavior. 

[Stateroom_Sailor]

51 minutes ago, DebInAntigua said:

 

I was thinking the EXACT same thing. The OP went out of their way to point out weight as a defining factor. Ironic when they were appalled by discriminatory behavior due to race, and then it clearly shows up in their own writing that they have prejudices against fat people. 

 

“Wobbled away” = completely unnecessary for the purpose of the post

 

I wrote an honest retraction on post 18.  I'm not so concerned about how prejudice the guy is, whether that is his normal worldview, or a cheap insult once he got confrontational.  It is the harassing, insulting, and intimidating that I found appalling.

[chemmo]

Put a large number of people together anywhere and there will inevitably be

 

People who drinks too much

People with behavioural/mental health issue

People who have little regard for others

People who put their own needs/wants before others

People who don’t understand cultural/social expectations (using different tongs?)

 

Totally agree that it is much better to report any antisocial, dangerous or inappropriate  behaviour to staff and leave them to deal with it. Quite simply you don’t know who you are confronting.

 

My heart goes out to the family who were abused. Such a situation must have been both upsetting and frightening. I hope they have been supported by staff.

 

I do wonder about the abuser and his family/companions....He must have been very upset/embarrassed by being confronted/criticised about his inappropriate use of tongs. Not everyone is fully aware about cross contamination or even appropriate table manners...

 

For many years (30+) I worked with children and young adults with mental health and behavioural issues. Parents of these youngsters (who grew into adults) were torn between wanting them to access society but knowing that they risked ‘outbursts’ that could be upsetting to others and that such behaviour would be met with intolerance....

 

If I was in a different part of the world in a dining situation and committed a cultural or social faux pas (for example using the wrong hand for eating bread/dips) I think I would prefer a member of staff to quietly pull me to one side and explain the situation rather than having a fellow guest (no matter how politely) ‘tell me off’....Another reason to let staff deal with issues.

 

 

 

 

[Bo1953]

7 hours ago, MJSailors said:

Good advice here about referring a problem to a crew member or officer rather than talking directly to a fellow passenger who is causing a problem.

The brief description of this confrontation in the buffet causes me to consider that the person who perpetrated the verbal attack may have a behavioral or mental health issue.

This would  not excuse his behavior,but could explain it.

I do hope a representative from the proper department on the ship (ie.medical,security guest relations) addressed this man and his traveling companions about his behavior and possible consequences if such behavior continued on the cruise.

Also, I hope that the affected family was addressed by a representative of the guest services or security to give them some reassurance that the remainder of the cruise would be more pleasant for them.

 

 

 

Okay, if this person has a behavioral or mental health issue, they need to be required to have their handler with them at all times, in public or not sail at all...

 

bon voyage

Edited April 26, 2019 by Bo1953

[Bo1953]

6 hours ago, DebInAntigua said:

 

I was thinking the EXACT same thing. The OP went out of their way to point out weight as a defining factor. Ironic when they were appalled by discriminatory behavior due to race, and then it clearly shows up in their own writing that they have prejudices against fat people. 

 

“Wobbled away” = completely unnecessary for the purpose of the post

Guilty as stated, often times when some of us write about events in the midst of it happening, we write and post without thinking to come back to retract/redact/clarify thoughts and wording, which in not appropriate.

 

I Always give benefit of doubt to those whom I have read before and know their approach to statements of 'fact' as opposed to pure derogatory or absolute comments.

 

Sometimes, some of us do not have the luxury of having an editor read through and update our writings before posting.

 

bon voyage

[Fixit2010]

I always find that in the "mad buffet" cafes, there is often a bunch of people that consistently push, shove or try to jump in the middle of a line of people calmly waiting for whatever is being served.   Sometimes its kids, sometimes its the senior citizens and sometimes its people in between.   You are never going to change that.  Some people simply think that a cruise ship will run out of food.

 

This is nothing to do with people's size or social-economical factors, its to do with patience, manners, having a bit of respect towards other people and being civil.  Something that I fear that has been lost in today's society.

 

If someone pushes in front or me, uses the wrong tong (not thong as someone posted, I wouldn't want someone's sweaty undies in my salad either) I'd let the crew sort it out, thats their job.  Im relaxing on holiday/vacation unwinding.

[ak1004]

10 hours ago, Stateroom_Sailor said:

 

I also wonder, if overpricing the cruise for too long, and then have a clearance sale ($649 for an inside cabin, 12 nights Hawaii) attracts people from budget lines.

 

 

This is exactly why lines like Oceania or Crystal don't usually discount their cruises and keep the prices pretty stable. Prices 2 years before the cruise are very similar to prices 2 weeks before the cruise. They prefer to sail half empty than attract the "wrong" people.

 

And if someone believes that the crowds on $500 cruises are the same as $3,000 cruises, then you are delusional. Yes, Bad manners knows no socio economic class, but lets not be naive or hypocritical. There are always exceptions, but behavior on Celebrity is "on average" is not the same as behavior on Carnival.

[Mike981]

I've been fortunate to have enjoyed people from all economic levels. If anything, I believe more $$ = more entitlement. The worst are those who brag about "screwing over" low income/low intelligent people.

We cruised on the Equinox this past January, after cruising several times on Carnival and several land vacations. The behavior I saw was not much different at all. Sorry if some don't want to hear that. It was my beautiful wife and my experience.
One schmancilly dressed lady give me an attitude and a talking down in the MDR. I never had that happen on Carnival.

It is what it is. I've told my family for years the older I get, the more I understand hermits.

[tce40]

7 hours ago, DebInAntigua said:

 

Obviously we have no way of knowing if there was a mental illness component to the situation. But I do wonder if there wasn’t a bipolar issue, maybe?  When they go manic they can become very belligerent and rash, insulting and very hard to calm down. Afterward, they often don’t even realize how out of control they were or how much they offended others. I’ve personally seen this several times with one of the members of our extended family who is bipolar.

 

Changes to everyday routines and less sleep than normal (hello, vacation) can push otherwise stable bipolar people into a depressive or manic state. When manic, they don’t have much sense or foresight into the consequences of their actions. 

 

Not at all making an excuse for such horrible behavior. He should be disembarked. Just making an observation that if it wasn’t alcohol-related, maybe there was some aspect of mental illness that contributed to his behavior. 

 

Or, I don't know, maybe he was just an entitled, racist first class JERK!  

[quack1]

This kind of behavior is fine in post-2016 America.  Haven't you been watching?  "Very fine people."

[citronella]

15 minutes ago, Mike981 said:

I've been fortunate to have enjoyed people from all economic levels. If anything, I believe more $$ = more entitlement. The worst are those who brag about "screwing over" low income/low intelligent people.

We cruised on the Equinox this past January, after cruising several times on Carnival and several land vacations. The behavior I saw was not much different at all. Sorry if some don't want to hear that. It was my beautiful wife and my experience.
One schmancilly dressed lady give me an attitude and a talking down in the MDR. I never had that happen on Carnival.

It is what it is. I've told my family for years the older I get, the more I understand hermits.

 

[citronella]

Mike981,

 

True dat !

 

”Hell is other people”.

 

 

[julia]

We sailed on the cruise prior to this one, and I'm now planning to cancel this Hawaii itinerary on the Solstice in September.  Why? For many of the reasons stated in this thread.  Rude behavior, rampant obesity (go ahead, flame me for stating a fact), and a level of pax cluelessness that we've never experienced.

As for the tongs?  I routinely found them IN THE FOOD, which is wholly disgusting (along with the slimy, dripping salad dressing bottles).  The entire layout of the OVC is a cluster, with the various stations constantly changing locations. This creates a mayhem of people wandering around.  I was physically bumped into several times (and not always apologized to). 

Also, the MDR is now so jammed with tables, that at times, I couldn't get between chairs.

I too, am saddened and disheartened by this incident, but I feel strongly that the wife had every right to point out this error to that man.  If (IF) it was done politely, there should not have been an incident.  But him approaching their table and raising hell?  That boorish behavior should have consequences.

[wpgcycler]

27 minutes ago, julia said:

We sailed on the cruise prior to this one, and I'm now planning to cancel this Hawaii itinerary on the Solstice in September.  Why? For many of the reasons stated in this thread.  Rude behavior, rampant obesity (go ahead, flame me for stating a fact), and a level of pax cluelessness that we've never experienced.

As for the tongs?  I routinely found them IN THE FOOD, which is wholly disgusting (along with the slimy, dripping salad dressing bottles).  The entire layout of the OVC is a cluster, with the various stations constantly changing locations. This creates a mayhem of people wandering around.  I was physically bumped into several times (and not always apologized to). 

Also, the MDR is now so jammed with tables, that at times, I couldn't get between chairs.

I too, am saddened and disheartened by this incident, but I feel strongly that the wife had every right to point out this error to that man.  If (IF) it was done politely, there should not have been an incident.  But him approaching their table and raising hell?  That boorish behavior should have consequences.

 This is pure satire, yes?

[DebInAntigua]

55 minutes ago, julia said:

We sailed on the cruise prior to this one, and I'm now planning to cancel this Hawaii itinerary on the Solstice in September.  Why? For many of the reasons stated in this thread.  Rude behavior, rampant obesity (go ahead, flame me for stating a fact), and a level of pax cluelessness that we've never experienced.

 

Oh, the horror! FAT PEOPLE!!!

Please do book another cruise if you find big people who dare to exist and live their lives nearby will ruin your day.
 

(And yep, I and my DH are fat / obese / fluffy / round / choose-your-euphemism and we enjoy going on vacation like any thin person. Just a fact.)

[florisdekort]

3 hours ago, Bo1953 said:

Guilty as stated, often times when some of us write about events in the midst of it happening, we write and post without thinking to come back to retract/redact/clarify thoughts and wording, which in not appropriate.

 

Almost like getting upset in a buffet line and speaking some words in the midst of it happening without the ability to retract/redact/clarify...  

[baggal]

2 hours ago, ak1004 said:

 

This is exactly why lines like Oceania or Crystal don't usually discount their cruises and keep the prices pretty stable. Prices 2 years before the cruise are very similar to prices 2 weeks before the cruise. They prefer to sail half empty than attract the "wrong" people.

 

 

This is an outlandish, ridiculous statement.  Oceania is owned by Norwegian Cruise Lines which in turn is owned by the Genting Group which is a huge, multi-national, PUBLICLY TRADED resort and gambling company based in Malaysia.  They have a fiduciary responsibility to their stockholders and board.  They are not a private club who can pick and choose the "right" people.  They'll try to fill those cabins anyway they can too - but the discounts don't reach those lower levels and they may be more discreet.

 

I have sailed on Oceania and have been pushed aside in their buffet line as well as being a witness to other rude behavior around the ship.  I don't think any cruise line is immune.

[elaineb]

2 hours ago, ak1004 said:

 

This is exactly why lines like Oceania or Crystal don't usually discount their cruises and keep the prices pretty stable. Prices 2 years before the cruise are very similar to prices 2 weeks before the cruise. They prefer to sail half empty than attract the "wrong" people.

 

And if someone believes that the crowds on $500 cruises are the same as $3,000 cruises, then you are delusional. Yes, Bad manners knows no socio economic class, but lets not be naive or hypocritical. There are always exceptions, but behavior on Celebrity is "on average" is not the same as behavior on Carnival.

Your signature, if I am reading correctly, does not show a Carnival cruise.  Have you actually been on one?  I have - 7 times, and have never witnessed poor behavior.  A few drunk people, perhaps, not misbehavior, but also saw drunks on Royal.  I don't understand why any post addressing poor behavior has to be compared to people who cruise on Carnival.  I think it makes people feel superior by putting other people/cruise lines down.  When you are looking for the worst in others, you will find it.  

[ak1004]

8 minutes ago, elaineb said:

Your signature, if I am reading correctly, does not show a Carnival cruise.  Have you actually been on one?  I have - 7 times, and have never witnessed poor behavior.  A few drunk people, perhaps, not misbehavior, but also saw drunks on Royal.  I don't understand why any post addressing poor behavior has to be compared to people who cruise on Carnival.  I think it makes people feel superior by putting other people/cruise lines down.  When you are looking for the worst in others, you will find it.  

 

Yes, I have been on Carnival, and yes, my signature shows it.

 

There are well behaved people on Carnival and there are bad behaved people on Celebrity and Oceania. We are talking statistics. We are talking the general atmosphere. Yes, we had a great time on Carnival too because we learned to ignore those negatives, but I will never sail on Carnival again.

[ak1004]

13 minutes ago, baggal said:

This is an outlandish, ridiculous statement.  Oceania is owned by Norwegian Cruise Lines which in turn is owned by the Genting Group which is a huge, multi-national, PUBLICLY TRADED resort and gambling company based in Malaysia.  They have a fiduciary responsibility to their stockholders and board.  They are not a private club who can pick and choose the "right" people.  They'll try to fill those cabins anyway they can too - but the discounts don't reach those lower levels and they may be more discreet.

 

I have sailed on Oceania and have been pushed aside in their buffet line as well as being a witness to other rude behavior around the ship.  I don't think any cruise line is immune.

 

We paid around $3,000 CAD pp for our June Celebrity cruise. Now it shows $1,800 CAD. Please show me similar discounts on Oceania or Crystal. Just one.

 

Yes, we have seen similar cases on Oceania. There are always isolated cases. On Oceania it's an exception. On Carnival it's not.

[screwsmcernst]

12 hours ago, Stateroom_Sailor said:

 

When my wife is wearing flip flops, and is stepped on by someone in sneakers, it honestly hurts more when someone is extremely overweight vs normal overweight, or thin.  I hardly see how describing these situations is similar to shouting someone down, sticking your finger in their face, using profanity.

 

 

Really?  If you don't see how your comment of, "Wobbled away. (Extremely obese)"  was completely unnecessary, then you are a problem as well.

I feel bad for that family.  That person should be removed from the ship.  Yelling profanities and accosting people with racial slurs is unacceptable.

There are many rude people on ANY cruise line, singling out Carnival cruisers is an unfair bias.  Luckily, there are so many more people who cruise who are lovely and pleasant.  

[baggal]

3 minutes ago, ak1004 said:

 

We paid around $3,000 CAD pp for our June Celebrity cruise. Now it shows $1,800 CAD. Please show me similar discounts on Oceania or Crystal. Just one.

 

Yes, we have seen similar cases on Oceania. There are always isolated cases. On Oceania it's an exception. On Carnival it's not.

You are missing the point completely. It has nothing to do with one individual discount but the bottom line for the company.  Oceania could not stay afloat very long (pun intended) if they chose to sail half full on a routine basis.

[ak1004]

1 minute ago, baggal said:

You are missing the point completely. It has nothing to do with one individual discount but the bottom line for the company.  Oceania could not stay afloat very long (pun intended) if they chose to sail half full on a routine basis.

 

I'm sure they don't sail half full. But it's not because they provide last minute fire sale prices. it's because they provide excellent value for money and their prices are very stable and consistent. Unlike Celebrity who play games with the prices all the time.

[yorky]

4 hours ago, Bo1953 said:

Okay, if this person has a behavioral or mental health issue, they need to be required to have their handler with them at all times, in public or not sail at all...

 

bon voyage

There are a good percentage of people in the world that have mental health issues, they don’t have handlers in the vast majority of cases.

[cricketgirl]

53 minutes ago, baggal said:

I have sailed on Oceania and have been pushed aside in their buffet line as well as being a witness to other rude behavior around the ship.  I don't think any cruise line is immune.

 

Exactly.  I witnessed an all-out brawl on Regent years ago.  It can happen anywhere, doesn't matter the socio-economic status.  Some people and their self-righteous beliefs truly disgust me. 

 

I've actually found that those who have worked in customer service themselves tend to be much kinder to (and patient with) others.  Regardless, I'd rather be around a poor, obese, drunk person any day than someone that thinks their "kind" (or race or status) is better than others.  Truly SMH on this one.

 

Edited April 26, 2019 by cricketgirl