Elevator usage by ADA persons

[Slugsta]

Along with the points already made, I fear it would be a short step from reserving one lift for the use of people with mobility problems to saying that such people can  only use that lift. This would, IMHO, cause more inconvenience rather than less.

[not-enough-cruising]

A couple years ago, while on HOTS, we experienced a weeklong trial of a “smart elevator”. I don’t know why it hasn’t, or if it ever will, go fleetwide; but it alleviated a lot of these issues by sorting the crowds by destination deck. Each elevator was an express and only stopped at one floor, before picking up another car full of people, all going to one particular floor. It was quite fascinating to watch it work. 

[johnjen]

On 4/29/2019 at 8:38 PM, 6theagle said:

Recently, while travelling with a couple of friends who I am privileged  to be friends with for over 40 years, we encountered a cruise problem that I am seeking opinions on.  I can be a bit of a grump sometimes, but I was wondering if anyone else thinks that we with mobility issues, those traveling with children in strollers or anyone else who requires the elevator to get safely to and from our cabins to every where else on the ship, have encountered long waits at the elevators at peak times. Notably the fact that there are so many ambulatory people using those elevators. 

Rather than shaming my fellow travelers I want to address that it is fact the accessible desk or officer who SHOULD monitor how long it takes to get an elevator during embarkation, days at sea, and debarkation dates and times. How about dedicating an elevator? This would not be a full time dedication but at specific hours, for specific purposes. Let me know what you think, I am trying this again in August to Cuba. 

No. What, are they going to halt someone with no mobility issues a ride on an elevator if there's plenty of space available during ADA time? While I can sympathize with you, this would just be another waste of time. How many times have we given up our ride on an elevator and let on someone with mobility issues get on instead of us? Plenty of times. This is not needed.

[johnjen]

On 4/29/2019 at 9:04 PM, matj2000 said:

What will they do someone if they were caught riding the elevator without special needs?

Make them wear a sign around their necks the remainder of the cruise that says "UNAUTHORIZED FOR ELEVATOR USE."

[johnjen]

On 4/30/2019 at 7:29 AM, lifes-a-beach said:

This conversation reminds me of the South Park episode Raising the Bar where Cartman decides he is no longer “big boned” but is, as he has been repeatedly told by Kyle, just fat, and acquires a mobility scooter.  Here’s a Wikipedia link for a G rated explanation:

 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Raising_the_Bar_(South_Park)

 

But if you don’t mind profanity and want a good laugh google the clip when he shows up at Kyle’s house.  I forgot how funny that episode was.  Thanks to whoever posted this entitlement garbage for the reminder.  

 

[davekathy]

Be considerate of others,  follow the rules and keep your wheelchairs, scooters and baby strollers out of the hallways. I hate wasting my time calling GS about this safety hazard.  

[broberts]

8 hours ago, chengkp75 said:

What most people don't realize with ship's crew, is that the total hours of labor for the entire crew, from dishwasher to Captain, is a finite quantity, defined by law.  This is not a mall where you can hire someone additional to do the new duties of elevator monitor, nor can you ask someone to work a few hours a week extra to earn some more overtime.  Maritime law determines the total number of hours that crew can work in any 24 hours, and in any 7 day period, and if this is exceeded, both the company and the crew member can be fined.  The well commented on "crew reductions" that I see here on CC are not crew reductions, they are changes to services that have been required to meet the new limits on hours that crew can work.  Gone are the days when the company could say, "here's the amount of work your position needs to do, and here's the amount of pay we will give you to do it, and how long it takes you to do it is your problem".

 

Again, I ask how this problem is dealt with on land, in buildings where the stairs are primarily for emergencies, so the load falls 100% on the elevators.  Do they have dedicated disabled elevators or elevator monitors?

 

Are you saying that even if a ship hired an additional hotel employee or two, no additional hours could be worked?

[LilBlackDress]

As a disabled person with no obvious physical disability, I don't see the need for a designated elevator.

When I was in a wheelchair and/or a scooter and even when I transitioned to crutches, people would cut me off or push in front of me to get one spot closer in line or get in the door before me. I will never forget the day someone was in such a hurry to get inside a Sams Club that he knocked me down while I was using the crutches!! He never even said sorry or asked to help me up, he just kept going! Thankfully an employee was there to help me.
I always felt invisible when I had the scooter and the wheelchair but I thought I was able to be seen on the crutches... NOT

I do have a new appreciation for people in scooters, wheelchair or any other mobility assisted device.
I appreciate the disabled section in WJ (I don't use it myself, but I can see the need for it) The disabled seating in the Main Theater and the other more accessible areas are plenty. There is no need to dedicate an elevator. 

 

 

[chengkp75]

1 hour ago, broberts said:

 

Are you saying that even if a ship hired an additional hotel employee or two, no additional hours could be worked?

The question is, where does the additional crew sleep?  I don't know of ships that have many, if any, unoccupied cabins.  When the workers sleep and live at the jobsite, it's not like you can just hire someone else who lives in the next town.

[SciFiGuy1960]

Being mobility challenged myself I don't see a dedicated elevator being a solution.

 

Just imagine the line of people with wheelchairs and scooters along with those with walkers, rollators and canes along with their companions waiting for that one elevator. Imagine what would happen if one or more of these people that are lined up waiting decided to get on one of the other elevators.

 

In my opinion (for what that's worth) the problem boils down to people and their lack of understanding on the proper etiquette for elevators. I'm betting the majority of those who force their way in front of people and the other rude behavior mentioned here

don't deal with elevators on a regular basis so have no idea that they're acting improperly. Of course in today's me first society you'll always have those that believe their time is more valuable then yours and they should be first. This goes both ways for able bodied along with those who require the assistance of a mobility device.

 

What I've learned in my limited cruise experience is,

Boarding day. Don't head for the first set of elevators as you walk on to the ship. Instead go to the second set either aft or forward.

Plan accordingly if you suspect a crowd. If you know there will be a crowd at the elevators right after the show lets out, kick back and relax, have another drink and wait a bit before heading out to let the crowd thin out a bit.

If you come to a bank of elevators and you see everyone waiting to go up, hit the down button. Get on go down one deck then press the button to your desired deck. Or visa versa. I've done this many times and love the look of the faces of those waiting on the original deck as they see me in the elevator by myself (priceless).

 

Jim. 

 

[broberts]

7 minutes ago, chengkp75 said:

The question is, where does the additional crew sleep?  I don't know of ships that have many, if any, unoccupied cabins.  When the workers sleep and live at the jobsite, it's not like you can just hire someone else who lives in the next town.

 

Yes, I understand that there are "housing" limitations and of course the constant drive to reduce overhead.

 

If I understand correctly, presuming a ship was able and willing to accommodate additional staff it would be possible to have an elevator operator during peak periods. (I'm not suggesting this as a partial solution, just establishing its feasibility.)

Edited May 1, 2019 by broberts

[ladytaekwondo]

I think we all need to be more patient and courteous regardless of abilities.  I have MS and RA.  Sometimes I use a scooter, sometimes I use a wheelchair, sometimes I use my wheeled walker, and sometimes I just use a cane. I have a noticeable leg brace (think cheetah or leopard), It's all relative in the scheme of things.  Be courteous, smile, and be patient.  EVERYONE.  We need to start caring about each other.  I cannot tell you how many times I have had someone run me over or end up in my lap due to distraction.  I do not think a dedicated elevator would solve anything, but the video idea that was mentioned was great!!  Subliminal messaging at its greatest!  Maybe a PSA in between items on the tv for 30 seconds or less as a reminder to be courteous.  

[klfrodo]

5 minutes ago, broberts said:

 

Yes, I understand that there are "housing" limitations and of course the constant drive to reduce overhead.

 

If I understand correctly, presuming a ship was able and willing to accommodate additional staff it would be possible to have an elevator operator during peak periods. (I'm not suggesting this as a partial solution, just establishing its feasibility.)

That's a CEO level or an attorney level or even a spouse open ended leading question if I've ever seen one.

 

So, when did you stop beating your wife?

or

Do these pants make my butt look big?

[broberts]

7 minutes ago, klfrodo said:

That's a CEO level or an attorney level or even a spouse open ended leading question if I've ever seen one.

 

So, when did you stop beating your wife?

or

Do these pants make my butt look big?

 

What question?

 

[Reader0108598]

1 hour ago, johnjen said:

Make them wear a sign around their necks the remainder of the cruise that says "UNAUTHORIZED FOR ELEVATOR USE."

How would the cruise line know what their disability is ? Would never work! I have emphysema and a really bad back which I will be in severe pain if I don't sit when I need to.I look perfectly fine.They cannot ask you what your disability is and even if they could people would lie.

 

 

Edited May 1, 2019 by Reader0108598

[davekathy]

3 minutes ago, Reader0108598 said:

How would the cruise line know what their disability is ? Would never work! I have emphysema and a really bad back which I will be in severe pain if I don't sit when I need to.I look perfectly fine.

 

That was not a serious post. 

[Reader0108598]

1 minute ago, davekathy said:

That was not a serious post. 

I get that this whole thread is silly 🙂

 

[Reader0108598]

10 minutes ago, davekathy said:

That was not a serious post. 

Sorry about that just realized I quoted the wrong post 🤣

 In my defense just read the entire thread and I am cross eyed! lol

 

[broberts]

7 minutes ago, Reader0108598 said:

I get that this whole thread is silly 🙂

 

 

No, far from it. For those with mobility restrictions that require elevator use, they have no other option. 

 

I recall observing a scooter bound passenger being unable to get on four or five elevators either because there was no room or other more able waiters were cutting in front. This is silly?

[davekathy]

4 minutes ago, Reader0108598 said:

Sorry about that just realized I quoted the wrong post 🤣

 In my defense just read the entire thread and I am cross eyed! lol

 

Yikes. 😵No doubt. 

[chengkp75]

1 hour ago, broberts said:

 

Yes, I understand that there are "housing" limitations and of course the constant drive to reduce overhead.

 

If I understand correctly, presuming a ship was able and willing to accommodate additional staff it would be possible to have an elevator operator during peak periods. (I'm not suggesting this as a partial solution, just establishing its feasibility.)

Yes, if there were crew berthing available, and the company wanted to add crew to the station bill (the three yard long, one yard high document you might have seen on I-95 that lists all crew emergency duties), requiring a reprint of all documentation, then, yes, they could have an elevator operator.  This person would have to ride the elevator at the restricted times, or you would need one person at each deck, to enforce the limitations on who can use it.

[Reader0108598]

7 minutes ago, broberts said:

 

No, far from it. For those with mobility restrictions that require elevator use, they have no other option. 

 

I recall observing a scooter bound passenger being unable to get on four or five elevators either because there was no room or other more able waiters were cutting in front. This is silly?

Grew up with a parapalegic  aunt ,worked long term care for 24 years. I am very aware of what they face . I also have a disability which prevents me from using the stairs ,no scooter or wheel chair yet can I use the separate elevator? If so how can they tell I have a disability?

Edited May 1, 2019 by Reader0108598

[broberts]

6 minutes ago, Reader0108598 said:

Grew up with a parapalegic  aunt ,worked long term care for 24 years. I am very aware of what they face . I also have a disability which prevents me from using the stairs ,no scooter or wheel chair yet can I use the separate elevator? If so how can they tell I have a disability?

 

Do you in fact need a separate elevator? It seems to me that a special elevator is only really necessary at peak periods for those using wheelchairs, scooters, possible walkers. The rest of us can probably make due with better behavior by all users.

[Reader0108598]

6 minutes ago, broberts said:

 

Do you in fact need a separate elevator? It seems to me that a special elevator is only really necessary at peak periods for those using wheelchairs, scooters, possible walkers. The rest of us can probably make due with better behavior by all users.

That is discrimination my disability is no less than anothers. Maybe I am wheezing need to get to my nebulizer quick ,maybe my legs are about to give out due to my back pain! See you cannot say one person deserves more acomadation than another. Just playing the devils advocate It would be a nightmare for the cruise lines.

Edited May 1, 2019 by Reader0108598

[peterhof]

On 4/30/2019 at 1:38 AM, 6theagle said:

Recently, while travelling with a couple of friends who I am privileged  to be friends with for over 40 years, we encountered a cruise problem that I am seeking opinions on.  I can be a bit of a grump sometimes, but I was wondering if anyone else thinks that we with mobility issues, those traveling with children in strollers or anyone else who requires the elevator to get safely to and from our cabins to every where else on the ship, have encountered long waits at the elevators at peak times. Notably the fact that there are so many ambulatory people using those elevators. 

Rather than shaming my fellow travelers I want to address that it is fact the accessible desk or officer who SHOULD monitor how long it takes to get an elevator during embarkation, days at sea, and debarkation dates and times. How about dedicating an elevator? This would not be a full time dedication but at specific hours, for specific purposes. Let me know what you think, I am trying this again in August to Cuba. 

 

Being disabled myself and having to use either a wheelchair or mobility scooter to get around a ship, I fully appreciate the frustration I embarassingly have to encounter whilst on vacation. For those that are 'able bodied' there is little comprehension of the difficulties that we encounter and I have even been patted on the head in a ship elevator more than once by a condecending fellow passenger and asked if I was having a nice down there!

 

There are three specific times on a cruise that being in a wheelchair/scooter is highly problematic, two of which happen every day:

1) After the muster call on day 1

2) After and just before Dinner

3) After the theatre show

 

Getting to the muster call is ok, as all the elevators are available only to the disabled - however, when the muster drill is over, the whole ship wants either to get back to their cabin or somewhere else than where they are at the moment. Consequencly wheelchair/scooter users have to wait litterally an hour sometimes to get in an elevator. This annoys me as 90% of the passengers could easily walk down the stairs - I cannot in any way.

 

My answer would be to have one lift (elevator), either forward or the stern to be permently reserved for wheelchair/scooter users (I have to stress that kiddies in buggies are not disabled, normally). The way to police this facility is by way of the Sea Pass card by swiping the card across a sensor to call the lift. There are 14 lifts on the Independence of the Seas for instance and one lift, that could be one of the lifts that are out of action on embarkation and disembarkation days on luggage duties, would not cause too much delay to other passengers.

 

Either that or passengers that do not give prioty at the lifts at these crucial times to disabled folk are named and shamed. A "There but for the grace of god" attitude is what is required.

 

I am very much looking forward to the two RCI cruises we are on this year, but not looking forward to the mayhem that some passengers inflict on me and others. I can understand how children don't give a 'monkeys', but to be insulted time and time again by their parents, who think only of themselves is appalling. These people themselves grow old and the fit and healthy amongst them still treat the less fit like something under their shoe. One holiday that no disabled person should go on is one organised by Saga, as the folk that do go on them think only of themselves and fight to be at the front of every queue (line) to be first in everything.

 

So yes, I think that a designated lift is urgently wanted.

Edited May 1, 2019 by peterhof